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Guild Wars 2 |OT4| The only subscription you need is this thread.

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JonCha

Member
If I remember right, the reason they broke away from the GW1 model is that they burned out too quickly and couldn't spend the time they wanted to really flesh things out. They also felt that the tutorials required to explain the new layers each release added were going to become problematic.

Remember that over those two years we've seen a ton of small releases with rarely more than a month between them (and in some cases, less than two weeks). Their approach is to deliver healthy portions of content on a regular basis rather than periods of famine punctuated by feasts. They just need to work on the portion size so that they last longer than a weekend and make sure that there are things to do in the longer gaps.



There's no point in releasing an expansion if the same problems with the game that drove players away initially still exist. They need to release some kind of update that contains a bunch of features aimed at improving the new player experience...

/wink

Good point. I guess as someone who went away from the game for over a year, I've consumed everything at once and can't remember how the game has chance from when it launched.

That said, if they do open up new content, they have business model. Can they rely on people just buying the game and using the gem store?
 

Levito

Banned
RE: on alts, professions, jobs, XIV. GW2, etc...

If they added a gemstore feature to just automatically boost a new character to 80--would you folks be opposed to that?
 
RE: on alts, professions, jobs, XIV. GW2, etc...

If they added a gemstore feature to just automatically boost a new character to 80--would you folks be opposed to that?

Sorta. While i'd instantly pay 800 gems to instalevel a character to 80, and that, with the additional character slot, would bump the price to 1600 for a new alt for me, i'd much rather they just do away with leveling and non exo gear, and just allow a pvp-like approach.
 

Retro

Member
That said, if they do open up new content, they have business model. Can they rely on people just buying the game and using the gem store?

We don't know what their financial situation is other than it's worked for two years and they're hiring people when other MMOs are cutting people loose. We see a few quarterly reports from NCSoft and it tends to be making them more money than most of their games. There was also some data a few months ago on how GW2's sales-per-player (the amount each player spends) is higher than a lot of other games like League of Legends and Dota2.

It's still going, so it must be profitable.

RE: on alts, professions, jobs, XIV. GW2, etc...

If they added a gemstore feature to just automatically boost a new character to 80--would you folks be opposed to that?

Absolutely. If they add such a feature, it should be tied to pre-existing content, such as having World Completion on a character already, or allowing the birthday scrolls to stack (i.e. you can save up 5 of them and boost to 80). Paying to jump to 80 sends a message that playing the game is boring and you just want to get to the endgame. That's fine for something like WoW where that's the truth, but in GW2 it's not, whether you want to view it as "the leveling process is fun!" or "GW2 has no traditional endgame."

And yes, I would be okay if GW2 had no character levels at all.
 

Levyne

Banned
Create MF recipes to combine scrolls.

4 scrolls, 50ish bricks, ingots, and stars for level 80 scroll.

Or something like skill point mats and ecto/obby
 

Ashodin

Member
I'm just saying... don't kill all of your villains.
The path to killing villains should make more villains. Loose ends that come back to fuck you in the ass.


Oh and I'm stuck deep in ArcheAge. That game is sandbox heaven(if you pay for patron). Housing, gliding, whooooo
 
Just wanted to throw out a big thanks again for the GAF members who helped me get some bags last night. I'm an extreme noob in this game, only got it at the tail end of August and have been playing slowly to get my Ranger up to (currently) lvl 27. I was suffering with 4 4-slot bags for the longest time and GAF Guildies stepped up and mailed me a bunch en masse. I'm sorry, I don't remember all the names since I only ever see a bunch of you talking in yellow about things I have no idea about. I'll return that favor one day to any guild member in need.
Don't ever hesitate to ask in gchat what various acronyms or slang means. [GAF] and I'd say most GW2 players I've come across are happy to help new players. I thoroughly enjoy taking new guildies through dungeon runs. I'd rather take 4X the time to help explain a dungeon path to gaffers than run yet another PUG speedrun. People just need to ask in gchat, which is unfortunately but inevitably slower these days regarding dungeon runs compared to the first few months.

ranger with a cataract.jpeg
You should get that treated. Takes 15 minutes as an outpatient procedure.
 

Retro

Member
So the Guild Housing CDI is supposed to start tomorrow, and I thought I'd contribute something that I think a lot of the anti-housing people overlook. So guess who gets to read a big, long post?

That's right, you! Please share any thoughts as I'm kind of trying to polish and fine-tune it.

------------------------
Proposal Overview
Guild Neighborhoods & Competitions

Goal of Proposal
One of the repeated concerns with housing systems is that they remove players from cities in favor of private, instanced areas. The goal of this proposal is to alleviate this to some degree.

Proposal Functionality
Due to the sheer number of guilds, it is impractical not to instance them. However, they do not need to be isolated from one another, nor do they all of them need to be instanced.

My proposal is that Guild Halls be grouped into neighborhoods where four guilds each have their own editable plot set around a central common area that cannot be directly modified. Those guilds then work together to upgrade their neighborhood, adding both aesthetic features (fountains, statues, landscaping) and gameplay features (special harvesting nodes, vendors, etc.) to the common area. A neighborhood of low quality would be a dimly lit area with dead grass and dirt roads, while a neighborhood with attentive residents would have lights and festive banners, musicians and entertainers, manicured gardens and elaborately paved streets.

map1blk9n.jpg

A score is assigned to each neighborhood, based on the individual guild plots (quality and quantity of furniture, number of trophies, specialized services) and common area. Optionally, points can be awarded for successful completion of Guild Missions, WvW claims and successful dungeon / PVP matches done as a guild.

Each week, the top-ranked neighborhood for each server is placed directly into the world where all players can see it and take advantage of any amenities present. The portal leading into individual guild instances would be placed at the exact center of the neighborhood, creating an area where people gather to both take advantage of services present and to travel into their own instances.

Associated Risks
- Requires the Megaserver system be abandoned inside cities or adjusted to compensate so players only encounter the neighborhood of guilds based on their home server.

- Requires Lion's Arch to be rebuilt before implementation.

- Requires some method of loading large chunks of instanced content into the world (perhaps it requires a reloading of the zone to change).

- Large guilds will obviously dominate based on the number of players contributing. One option is to have several tiers of neighborhoods ("Gold League", "Silver League", etc.), with different parts of the city changing to reflect each;
 

Mxrz

Member
Tried to dump some mats for a quick 200g. Was undercut into oblivion. Lesson learned. Sell a few at a time.

Can't say I care much about Guild Halls. There isn't any GvG or AB to gather for. With the trading post, there wouldn't be much reason to go into like Kamadan or LA. Also figure it would cut into things like terrace and airship passes. I'd rather see it applied per player. I'd likely spend oodles decorating out a home instance similar to Wildstar. ANet could more or less name their price for a desert-themed housing area.

But I'm speaking from a tiny-friend-guild level. It is a little amusing given things, but its sort of a concern ANet might overlook smaller guilds with this stuff.
 
Make guild plots cost 800,000 Influence so we can rush the best land as soon as the feature comes out.

They might even go the Factions route and make it so the highest Influence gets the VIP areas of the most populated cities, like the way House zu Heltzer was dominated by the highest Kurzick faction.
 

Retro

Member
Guild Housing CDI?

What's CDI?

Community Developer Initiative. They basically create a thread on the Official Forums with a very specific part of the game in mind and have the community collaborate and talk about what they would like to see, with a greater degree of developer input than most threads.

Basically, ArenaNet wants to know what players think would be good for Guild Housing.
 

Retro

Member
What would be the benefits to the guildies, besides epeen?

That's kind of the point of the CDI, and I'm hoping that the genuine lack of good, solid answers and the more involved interaction with the developers is enough to get the "I want Housing" crowd to die down because I genuinely do not believe the game needs it. I posted my suggestion because inevitably someone always says "That would make all the cities empty, just go play the simz, lol," even if I don't believe housing overall needs to be added.

I mean, a lot of the things that are perfect for housing (storage being the most noteworthy example but also guild buffs) are already available without having to jump through housing hoops to get them.

The two big reasons I've seen so far are, a guild portal that can be dropped and teleport everyone to a location en mass (so if we got a guild puzzle, one person could run there, open the other end of the portal and everyone could just step through) and having Guild Halls be part of a Guild vs. Guild mode where you attack each others' hall.

Housing has to be implemented from day one for it to really work, and since it hasn't here I can't really be for it. But that is a common complaint that I'm just sick of hearing.
 

spiritfox

Member
Player housing with the ability to furnish and visit I can see happening, but guild housing doesn't give any real benefits to a guild that player housing can't do better and won't depopulate the cities. Also, how would they handle multiple guilds? What if you switch rep in a guild instance?
 

Retro

Member
Player housing with the ability to furnish and visit I can see happening, but guild housing doesn't give any real benefits to a guild that player housing can't do better and won't depopulate the cities. Also, how would they handle multiple guilds? What if you switch rep in a guild instance?

All good reasons not to have guild housing. And I say this as someone who spent more than half of his time in Vanguard working towards or tinkering with our guild hall. It's just not something Guild Wars 2 really needs, and most certainly not at the expense of other, more interesting applications of a building system (for example, building structures in WvW like walls and bridges is MUCH more interesting and useful to the health of the game).

Individualized player housing doesn't strike me as necessary either, because we already have so many methods of accessing banks / TP / vendors, etc., the real meaty features that housing does well (for example, buying / looting / crafting chests and wardrobes to increase your bank space is a great way to go). It's going to inevitably end up as 100% cosmetic, which normally isn't a problem for me but I just find it terribly uninteresting.

Like I said, you have to be planning for housing from the start, so that buffs (via your furniture quality), storage, vendor access, etc. can be integrated into it. There's not really much of a reason for it because all of the really solid features are present elsewhere.
 

spiritfox

Member
All good reasons not to have guild housing. And I say this as someone who spent more than half of his time in Vanguard working towards or tinkering with our guild hall. It's just not something Guild Wars 2 really needs, and most certainly not at the expense of other, more interesting applications of a building system (for example, building structures in WvW like walls and bridges is MUCH more interesting and useful to the health of the game).

Individualized player housing doesn't strike me as necessary either, because we already have so many methods of accessing banks / TP / vendors, etc., the real meaty features that housing does well (for example, buying / looting / crafting chests and wardrobes to increase your bank space is a great way to go). It's going to inevitably end up as 100% cosmetic, which normally isn't a problem for me but I just find it terribly uninteresting.

Like I said, you have to be planning for housing from the start, so that buffs (via your furniture quality), storage, vendor access, etc. can be integrated into it. There's not really much of a reason for it because all of the really solid features are present elsewhere.

Housing being 100% cosmetic is not that far off from the "endgame" we already have in GW2 anyway. =P
 
The two big reasons I've seen so far are, a guild portal that can be dropped and teleport everyone to a location en mass (so if we got a guild puzzle, one person could run there, open the other end of the portal and everyone could just step through) and having Guild Halls be part of a Guild vs. Guild mode where you attack each others' hall.

Allow guilds to claim forts in their borderlands? With cosmetic changes and pre-installed defenses if retaken. Gods, instanced guild halls just sound so freaking boring.

TBH i'd just like them to add a guild way to craft higher end stuff, like precursors, legendaries and all. Dunno if the resulting drama would be worthwhile, and as is they can sorta already do this by pooling gold. Most things that eliminate RNG are OK in my book.

And I say this as someone who spent more than half of his time in Vanguard

That sentence evokes various emotions. Pity chief amongst them.
 

Retro

Member
Housing being 100% cosmetic is not that far off from the "endgame" we already have in GW2 anyway. =P

Pretty much true, but the "endgame" we have now is at least built around open world / group content. Housing is such a single-player feature and despite my little idea above, would remain largely instanced. I just feel like, if we're going to get the ability to build structures in the game, I'd rather see it done in a way that contributes to the existing content rather than an entirely new thing.

But maybe that's just me. I actually really like housing in theory, but in practice the execution has to be just right.

Allow guilds to claim forts in their borderlands? With cosmetic changes and pre-installed defenses if retaken. Gods, instanced guild halls just sound so freaking boring.

Guild Housing as an exclusive part of WvW would raise a ruckus, I think. I'd actually be perfectly fine with something not-quite-WvW-but-similar. I think a lot of people see GvG as being some kind of World vs. World on a smaller map with customized keeps, I'm not sure if that's the actual rabid GvG people or just people who are using that as an excuse because they want guild housing. Definitely agree that instancing is boring, but that's pretty much the only way to do it without creating huge swaths of land. Archeage is a sandbox MMO and even their housing plots were completely booked in the headstart rush, imagine if they added these big empty zones with housing plots in them in GW2.

That's kind of why I suggested a neighborhood system; it at least forces multiple guilds into the same area so you're not just alone in your private little world but actually have to interact with people.

That sentence evokes various emotions. Pity chief amongst them.

If Vanguard had been properly funded, not abandoned by Microsoft mid-development and picked up by SOE (of all people) and had someone filter Brad McQuaid's drug-induced mania, it might have been an amazing game. Instead it was half-baked, with lots of ideas that were great on paper but flawed in execution, from class concepts to crafting to housing to dungeons. All surrounded by an engine that chugged along even on high-end machines while still looking like a golf course. I think even TORtanic, despite the price tag, was less of a blunder than Vanguard. But it was pretty fun in spots, and I'll probably go to my grave praising the Blood Mage class concept. Diplomacy as a card game was kinda neat too, but the rules where a mess.
 

CoffeeMan

Member
So the Guild Housing CDI is supposed to start tomorrow, and I thought I'd contribute something that I think a lot of the anti-housing people overlook. So guess who gets to read a big, long post?

That's right, you! Please share any thoughts as I'm kind of trying to polish and fine-tune it.

------------------------
Proposal Overview
Guild Neighborhoods & Competitions

Goal of Proposal
One of the repeated concerns with housing systems is that they remove players from cities in favor of private, instanced areas. The goal of this proposal is to alleviate this to some degree.

Proposal Functionality
Due to the sheer number of guilds, it is impractical not to instance them. However, they do not need to be isolated from one another, nor do they all of them need to be instanced.

My proposal is that Guild Halls be grouped into neighborhoods where four guilds each have their own editable plot set around a central common area that cannot be directly modified. Those guilds then work together to upgrade their neighborhood, adding both aesthetic features (fountains, statues, landscaping) and gameplay features (special harvesting nodes, vendors, etc.) to the common area. A neighborhood of low quality would be a dimly lit area with dead grass and dirt roads, while a neighborhood with attentive residents would have lights and festive banners, musicians and entertainers, manicured gardens and elaborately paved streets.



A score is assigned to each neighborhood, based on the individual guild plots (quality and quantity of furniture, number of trophies, specialized services) and common area. Optionally, points can be awarded for successful completion of Guild Missions, WvW claims and successful dungeon / PVP matches done as a guild.

Each week, the top-ranked neighborhood for each server is placed directly into the world where all players can see it and take advantage of any amenities present. The portal leading into individual guild instances would be placed at the exact center of the neighborhood, creating an area where people gather to both take advantage of services present and to travel into their own instances.

Associated Risks
- Requires the Megaserver system be abandoned inside cities or adjusted to compensate so players only encounter the neighborhood of guilds based on their home server.

- Requires Lion's Arch to be rebuilt before implementation.

- Requires some method of loading large chunks of instanced content into the world (perhaps it requires a reloading of the zone to change).

- Large guilds will obviously dominate based on the number of players contributing. One option is to have several tiers of neighborhoods ("Gold League", "Silver League", etc.), with different parts of the city changing to reflect each;

Ever played LOTRO?

800px-Bree-land_Homesteads_map.jpg


They had neighborhoods near each of the starting cities, and a neighborhood had
  • 4 guild house
  • 10 deluxe house
  • 16 standard house

With common areas, and vendors and such
 

Retro

Member
Yep, but LotRO was completely instanced. The idea of neighborhoods is great though. I forget if the residents could collaborate on shared amenities or not.
 

CoffeeMan

Member
Yep, but LotRO was completely instanced. The idea of neighborhoods is great though. I forget if the residents could collaborate on shared amenities or not.

Lol the only thing I remember is that you could hang trophies and place stuff around your house. It's been so long, even though I've played it for 2 years
 
If Vanguard had been properly funded, not abandoned by Microsoft mid-development and picked up by SOE (of all people) and had someone filter Brad McQuaid's drug-induced mania, it might have been an amazing game. Instead it was half-baked, with lots of ideas that were great on paper but flawed in execution, from class concepts to crafting to housing to dungeons. All surrounded by an engine that chugged along even on high-end machines while still looking like a golf course. I think even TORtanic, despite the price tag, was less of a blunder than Vanguard. But it was pretty fun in spots, and I'll probably go to my grave praising the Blood Mage class concept. Diplomacy as a card game was kinda neat too, but the rules where a mess.

I just liked seeing it burn because it made the wow tryhards that kept insisting the game should be more punishing shut the hell up for a while.
Also because fuck Brad McQuaid in the eye.

I'm now partial to the instanced neighborhood idea, tho. DR, being divided in quadrants as it is, could work well with this. Brisban-sized Sims-like neighborhoods where you can just walk through the portal and have hundreds and hundreds of houses. Would take another portal to get inside the house, obv, but it would be quite nice even if you were limited to the house exterior and garden. Heck, make that neighbordhood the "guildhall" itself. The GAF neighborhood houses GAF houses, and so on and so forth. Click on a signpost in DE to be teleported to your neighborhood, or pick another neighborhood to visit.

No idea how it could work with charr or norn, since they appear to live in communal barracks.

Do asura and sylvari even have private lodgings?
 

Thorgal

Member
One hing ive been wondering :

Any condition stacks caps at 25.
Yet during world events or any zerg like event i regularly see duplicate stacks .

So if i see two stacks of 25 vulnerability does that mean the boss now has 50 stacks of vuln or is it still 25 and the latter stack overwrites the former ?
 
One hing ive been wondering :

Any condition stacks caps at 25.
Yet during world events or any zerg like event i regularly see duplicate stacks .

So if i see two stacks of 25 vulnerability does that mean the boss now has 50 stacks of vuln or is it still 25 and the latter stack overwrites the former ?

The bolded is wrong. Some do, some do not. Poison and Burning do not. Bleed and Vuln do. Can't remember the Torment cap.

I've never seen double stacks of the same effect on bosses, tho.
 

Retro

Member
Lol the only thing I remember is that you could hang trophies and place stuff around your house. It's been so long, even though I've played it for 2 years

I remember getting a house and being disappointed that you could only change the wallpaper and floor covering, and objects could only be placed into predetermined spots. For example, you could put one object onto a single section of wall, so you either had a painting that took up the space or a little tiny lantern with a ton of empty room around it. And everything was centered.

I just liked seeing it burn because it made the wow tryhards that kept insisting the game should be more punishing shut the hell up for a while.

I don't remember Vanguard being particularly hard, but then I played it with a medium-sized guild and there weren't any raids when I played (Ancient Port Warehouse was "coming soon") and the dungeons weren't anything I'd call particularly difficult. But then, I didn't play all the way to max level, as I got tired of the bugged skills, broken quests and shitty, shitty shitty performance. Waiting like 3 minutes for a chunk to load in.... nope.jpg

I'm now partial to the instanced neighborhood idea, tho. DR, being divided in quadrants as it is, could work well with this. Brisban-sized Sims-like neighborhoods where you can just walk through the portal and have hundreds and hundreds of houses. Would take another portal to get inside the house, obv, but it would be quite nice even if you were limited to the house exterior and garden. Heck, make that neighbordhood the "guildhall" itself. The GAF neighborhood houses GAF houses, and so on and so forth. Click on a signpost in DE to be teleported to your neighborhood, or pick another neighborhood to visit.

The thing about instance neighborhoods is that there's never any reason to visit any of them except your own. That's why my little suggestion above has the competitive aspect, so that every week you can push so your home isn't instanced, but out in the world for all to see.

Hell, some kind of rating system where you can vote for houses you like in exchange for "Housing Currency" would be cool; it would encourage people to visit neighborhoods and see what others are doing and get something for the effort. Of course, people can always game the system, but if it's just for bragging rights / cosmetics it doesn't really matter, right?

I also like the idea of the neighborhood having to work together to improve a community common area. When a neighborhood is just getting started, it'd be a shitty little overgrown pasture with dirt roads, but once players start chipping in they can add stuff like fountains, lighting, banners, ponds, hedges and such. Things that make the neighborhood look really swanky.

No idea how it could work with charr or norn, since they appear to live in communal barracks.

Do asura and sylvari even have private lodgings?

Charr have some farms and such, just as Norn have their homesteads. Asurans have labs, Sylvari kind of have little seedpod-like plant dwellings.

That's another problem with individual player houses instead of guild halls; all five races need their own style of home to be fair, but with a guildhall it can be a singular style or a variety of 'global' styles (i.e. Canthan-style, Elonian-style, etc.).
 
I would rather not see Player housing, but I am all for Guild Halls. It would be nice to have a meeting place before Makeups on Sunday
like I said last night only the cool kids do missions on Sunday
or to meet for WvW or dungeons. Also I would prefer to log out and in and be in the Guild Hall rather then Lion's Arch or any other Capitol. As long as those halls had full crafting stations. There doesn't need to be a toilet but if there was it would be nice.

As far as cities losing population, well big guilds will get guild halls fairly easily while smaller ones would have to wait for a while (if it were to cost gold or influence to get one) and you would still have people spamming map chat in every city with "join x guild, we haz a hallz, and Pzeververythings", and of course there will be the gold sellers in the main cities where a hall would somewhat protect you from that.
 
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