UltimateIke
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You need to join us on an Aetherpath run one night. We can cruise through it at this point.
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Guild Wars 2 |OT4| The only subscription you need is this thread.
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You need to join us on an Aetherpath run one night. We can cruise through it at this point.
you just want a certain staff
I'm torn on that in retrospect. I hated the combat aspect of it, but I think it was the best way to convey the most amount of information to the players. We wanted to know what was in Caithe's past, and we could have either hunted down witnesses from back then or relics like journals and watched endless cutscenes, or we could be her for a little bit and see what she saw. It worked well to tell the story. I just didn't like playing as another class in the combat parts. Doesn't bother me that I didn't like it, either. I chalk it up to "can't please everyone."
Forerunner
Member
I really like the Shadow of the Dragon helm, I know a lot of people think it's ugly, but it goes prefect with my wardrobe.
shysaursoft
Member
Totally up for that. I have so many of the damn keys.
Dunno if you can really judge player skill off fresh pve content. I've solo'd dungeons, mai trin, every ls achievement, etc. and the last fight confused me a bit too. I've seen mention that the shadows poof if you hit them once. When we did it, all we got were invulnerable messages from them. Throw in glitches, patches, lag and stuff and its pretty random.
Behind on the SW stuff. Need to get caught up. Needing so many different organs is a bit of a turn off. I don't really want the armor itself, but the rewarded Ascended box sure is nice.
I think its pretty neat, especially on sylvari. Can they be dyed? I've got a Sylvari heavy in my future, and these look pretty spiffy.
Behind on the SW stuff. Need to get caught up. Needing so many different organs is a bit of a turn off. I don't really want the armor itself, but the rewarded Ascended box sure is nice.
I think its pretty neat, especially on sylvari. Can they be dyed? I've got a Sylvari heavy in my future, and these look pretty spiffy.
my llama is OP
I definitely stress avoiding posts to that effect, for everyone, for every game.
Not only are a range of skill levels encapsulated in any community, different kinds of challenges will be more or less difficult to different types of players.
It's good to post your personal opinion and experience with content, but making that kind of generalization about how everyone would receive that content is a bad idea.
I found the fights in the most recent chapter to be well-balanced. Not simplistic nor overly difficult. I'm neither surprised that there are those who had more trouble than I did doing them alongside Thurb, nor that there are people who soloed it on the first try without issue.
Canach is pretty key to making this work. I'm interested, which is a compliment in its own right.
Zhaitan and the rise of Orr were pretty simple to establish and typical fare. I wouldn't characterize the final third of the Personal Story arc as anything special, nor anywhere near the worst story ever. Heroes put aside their differences and fight a dragon. But I was struck by how much more interesting other aspects of the lore were than the stuff related to Orr/Zhaitan outside of the Arah Explorable storylines. It's your prerogative to believe what you want, but the lore at launch surrounding the Sylvari, Nightmare Court, Soundless, Malyck, leaving the identity of only two Dragons a mystery, etc., and especially the beneath-the-surface plot points of the first Bazaar of the Four Winds, all pointed to this stuff even before Scarlet's arc started shouting"Dragon-Dragon-Dragon."
Since EotN is a whatever, I guess, who knows. but I'm pretty confident saying "before launch," and at the very least "not a retcon." Presenting this story with an ongoing episodic cadence rather than a boxed "campaign" style was way more effective anyway.
Yeah all three pieces have one dye slot.
I'm totally sure they had the overall main points planned for where the Sylvari came from. Maybe around the time of EotN the plans were still ideas jotted on notebook paper, but I do believe this has been planned for a while. Colin was dropping little hints like "Wouldn't it be cool to find out about the jungle dragon?" at interviews over a year ago. Can't find the video right now, but I know I saw it.
I also think it's believable that killing Zhaitan came before Mordremoth. Zhaitan's relatively easy death made the Pact cocky. Did anyone think we were just gonna waltz in there, carpet bomb stuff and kill a second dragon that way? I don't think we have an idea if there's really a "rank" of strength among the Elder Dragons but Zhaitan's influence felt weaker than Mordremoth's is.
I mean come on, he was vulnerable to the number 2!~
Everybody wants that staff, I recommend that you place many buy orders to get one before the big announcement drives up demand.
UltimateIke
Member
Kos Luftar
Member
Zhaitan rose a whole landmass from the sea. Mordremoth is taking forever to "fully" awaken and hasn't done much at all.
I mean, he's essentially infiltrated every organization in Tyria: There's sylvari everywhere. He also drained all of the life from at least half of Maguuma.
I think that's one thing people missed: It's not just the vines that fucked up the invasion, it's the Sylvari Pact members that went rogue and started sabotaging their own airships.
Zhaitan could control the dead. Sure, that's great, but not the most effective thing in the world. Mordremoth controls a race. One that has prominent spots across the world.
Also, I have no doubts that they always planned for the Sylvari to go this route, there's too many hints looking back. I don't know if they always planned to go through this story when they did (they might have thought about going with one of the other dragons first, let's say) but I think they had the idea of the sylvari being dragon minions from long ago when they first thought of them.
Forerunner
Member
Yes the one dye slot is somewhat disappointing, still like it though.
Kos Luftar
Member
Sylvari infiltrating organizations is a fluke. Nothing to do with Mordremoth being better than Zhaitan.
Ya know, I was spending a lot of the time we were dancing playing with a total makeover kit, trying different looks, but ya know what? I still like that look, even though that's exactly what my Charr Engineer in BWE1 looked like (hair might be a tad darker).
I'm also surprised how good the Arcane outfit looks on Charr.
I dunno, because of his ability to influence Sylvari, he was able to blow up the central city of Tyria and almost entirely eradicate the Pact.
Zhaitan was far off, in the distance. The closest he got was Claw Island. He was never as much as a central threat as Mordremoth has proven. Mordremoth even struck at the Pale Tree itself.
Jest Chillin
Member
There's a detail about the Dragon's strength (collectively) but I can't remember if it's in direct dialogue, extra dialogue, or in some of the books/documents that you can read in the Priory.. but it was a theory that suggested that killing one dragon would return it's magic to Tyria... which would in turn strengthen the other Dragons as they all feed on Tyria's magic.
It's a pretty solid lore explanation for the power creep that has to happen for each subsequent threat to cause tension.
During the Scarlet stuff, people kept yammering for the Pact and Destiny's edge. I figure the ending was about getting them out of the way. Takes a bit of fun out of the struggle when you have a highly organized and equipped army ready to go.
Interesting thing about HoT, should wrap up the Sylvari and Mord. So what happens next? I figure Primordus will be the last, but either of the other three could be up.
Interesting thing about HoT, should wrap up the Sylvari and Mord. So what happens next? I figure Primordus will be the last, but either of the other three could be up.
Yes, I thought about this as well. This was a really good way to completely remove those established organizations in order to set the players up to fight the dragons. I mean, we were basically a dragon killing machine after Zhaitan. All of the races were united, Destiny's Edge was back together, and we had figured out a lot of technologies to stop dragonspawn. This basically plunges everything back down to zero. Our main army is gone, Destiny's Edge is either broken up or simply dead, and the races are definitely not united now that the Sylvari are turning. I like the feeling of despair that brings. I mean, shit really hit the fan there.
As for the rest? I say do two at once. That's a difference maker. Otherwise, I have no idea. I feel like the sylvari being spawn of Mordremoth is such a big thing that it should have been saved for last. How do you top that?
Jest Chillin
Member
The Sylvari reveal is definitely a hard act to follow. Thus far, the other dragons powers seem limited to converting the dead into their soldiers. Maybe Primodus will have converted the dead Dwarves or something but that would have little impact being a re-tread at it's core.
The more interesting thing going forward, I think, will be how Anet addresses the idea that the Dragons balance Tyria's magic by consuming everything. If we kill enough of them, that would throw magic out of balance and could throw the entire Eternal Alchemy out of whack as well. What would happen then?
The more interesting thing going forward, I think, will be how Anet addresses the idea that the Dragons balance Tyria's magic by consuming everything. If we kill enough of them, that would throw magic out of balance and could throw the entire Eternal Alchemy out of whack as well. What would happen then?
My theory is that the dragons are balance and when magic throws things out of control they reawaken. If you look at the vision in Omadd's Machine, you have the six dragons arranged, like so;
That's the Ocean Dragon, Mordremoth and Primordus on the left and Kralkatorik, Zhaitan and Jormag on the right. (The Priory basement's ceiling actually has them mislabeled, for what it's worth, assuming the vision is accurate. It has switched Zhaitan and Mordremoth's places, but we know the sphere between the Ocean Dragon ("S") and Primordus is Mordremoth because that's the green one that plugs into the center during the vision... again, assuming what we saw was 'real').
My thinking is that they represent different states of matter and/or order vs. chaos. Water, Life and Magma are all fluid states, behaving in wildly unpredictable ways in comparison to the 'solid', organized states; Ice, Death and Stone/Crystal. If you strip all of the chaotic movement out of water, it becomes ice. Likewise, take all the chaos out of life or magma and they become death and stone, respectively.
This also applies to their minions; we don't know anything about the ocean dragon, but we do know Mordremoth 'grows' his minions and Promordus' Destoyers are hatched from eggs. They both "create" their minions. On the other side of the balance you have Elder Dragons who "corrupt" their minions, in the form of Branded, Risen and Icebrood, respectively.
There's also the dragon "spheres of influence". When you overhear one of the Priory instructors teaching, she mentions that Mordremoth's spheres are "mind and plants." Assuming they have it right, that would mean the counterbalance to Mordremoth would be unthinking animals; the Risen. We don't know what the other spheres are, so we can only guess at how they would be categorized, but it makes sense to me.
The elder dragons don't fight each other, but they represent opposing forces. When magic disrupts the balance between those forces, the dragons wake up and consume the magic (and the civilizations that used it) before returning back to sleep with the balance restored.
shysaursoft
Member
Kos must be happy. He finally gets his lore talk.
Jest Chillin
Member
Very intriguing. And good call on the Dragon's being of opposing... polarity (for lack of a better term) to each other.
I'm not sure about magic imbalancing the opposing forces though because that should mean that Dragons would awaken randomly. All accounts are that the Dragons are timed. Awakening every 10,000 years or so. Taking that into account, they're less like a safe guard and more like maintenance if that makes any sense.
Their opposing nature can't just be coincidence though. Balance has something to do with it but I just don't think it's a balance that the races of Tyria are manipulating simply by existing. If that were the case, there should have still been an imbalance after the Dragons slumbered last time, since Glint hid several races and several of those races still had magic.
Using text to represent the balance you've pointed out, the Dragons are balanced both horizontally (Element) and diagonally (Physical State).
Elder Sea Dragon (Water/Liquid)--------Kralkatorrik (Electricity/Stone)
Mordremoth (Growth/Life)------------------Zhaitan (Decay/Death)
Primordus (Fire/Liquid)---------------------Jormag (Ice/Stone)
So perhaps my earlier posted theory that suggested each Dragon would grow stronger from the death of one is wrong but rather the opposing Dragon grows stronger? If that's the case, then the balance itself could be between the Dragons to prevent any one dragon from becoming too strong while the Dragons specifically serve to limit the control of magic by any of the intelligent races of Tyria by consuming it while wiping them out. Both serving to essentially prevent the complete destruction of Tyria.
A nice neat little checks and balances system.
Nice! What armor set is that? Looks cool.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Man I hate the arcane outfit. It looks like it was made from recycled clothes.
Recylcing saves the environment! It's good! Ask any sylv- oh.
Its one of the few that actually fits Asura feet and ears >.<
Vigilant Walrus
Member
UltimateIke
Member
Accidentally invited someone to the guild when I was trying to leave a party. Why is there no confirmation dialog for that?
Whoops.
I kicked them before they noticed, I think. >_>
Whoops.
I kicked them before they noticed, I think. >_>
Kos Luftar
Member
Very happy to read what you guys think about lore and the story so far even if I'm not as articulate to participate as much.
After GW1 ended I always thought we would face off against him first since he woke up first.
Wasn't there some lore about Zhaitan being the leader of the Elder Dragons?
I missed out on sharing pictures. Here are my characters.
Guess their professions.
Also my 4000 hours was way too much.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
hahaaha n00b!
appletoasty
Member
5 engi?
Kos Luftar
Member
Close, but not quite.
I like this idea. It also might serve as a way to avoiding world boss power creep where each new boss has to be harder or more interesting than the last. It also prevents us from just picking off each dragon one by one, and then once we get them all, what's next? What is more compelling than killing elder dragons? In EQ they had that problem. Players killed dragons, then they had an entire expansion where we killed the actual gods (or at least their avatars). The expansions after that felt anti climactic.
Maybe the Pact will learn that the dragons actually shouldn't be killed, but kept asleep, because it disrupts the balance of dragon magic. Without the need to kill elder dragon after elder dragon, maybe they can take the story in new less obvious directions for future content.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=148467023&postcount=123
Reminds me, I really, really really hope a GW2+ isn't in the cards
Reminds me, I really, really really hope a GW2+ isn't in the cards
You mean like an optional subscription or something? is there any reason to suspect such a thing?
Ha ha wow, guess it was bound to come around. Still wouldn't look much into it as long as GW2 is a focus (cause like hell I going to deal with two MMOs lol).
No, there isn't. It would be the worst type of surprise is all I mean.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I mean, it just looks like something the Priory would put in their "Bargain Bin Priory Sale! Buy 1 get free Crystal Desert Dust!"
After Mordremoth, I hope we take a break from dragons. The other two regions already have compelling antagonists that, I feel, should not be leashed to a dragon. Cantha have the Ministry and Elonia have Joko.
Personally, I think it would be pretty awesome if we got to Elonia and found Joko had already defeated a Kralkatorrik. Gives people a break from dragons while setting up how powerful he is.
I doubt we're going to either of those. Elona, someday maybe. But Cantha was more or less written out of existence.
Imagine we won't straight up fight all the dragons. There'll be some twists and turns. The story might lean heavily towards them being a necessary part of the world, so we put them to sleep or some such.
The Priory thinks they're roughly timed (at least according to the Wiki), and that devouring all of the magic before going back to sleep is just a side effect of their regular behavior. But we know that's not entirely accurate because Scarlet was able to awaken Mordremoth by directing Ley Line energy towards it. If it were simply a set time period, redirecting the ley line wouldn't have had any impact.
My thinking is that "magic" is just like any other energy and cannot be created or destroyed. When the Elder Dragons devour all the magic, they aren't destroying it, only storing it. We know that they act like magic batteries because when the Human Gods first arrived on Tyria, they arrived and settled in Orr specifically because Zhaitan was giving off so much magic via The Artesian Waters (they actually had no idea about Zhaitan, see first paragraph here).
The game is ambiguous about the difference between "magic energy" and "dragon energy", but there are implications that they're distinct types. I think Dragon energy is what seeps out of the Elder Dragons and back into the world as they sleep, while Magic energy is what seeps back in from overuse. That is, as the intelligent races are using magic, it saturates the planet until so much of it is flowing beneath the surface that it awakens the dragons.
There was no imbalance to wake the dragons after the races re-emerged because they freely gave it up and allowed the Seers to contain all of the "untainted' magic in the Bloodstone. The problem is that the Mursaat refused to give theirs up and instead used their magic to 'phase out' of the world.
Of those surviving races, only the Dwarves and maybe (the wiki is fuzzy) the Forgotten managed to re-establish themselves. The Seers were wiped out by the Mursaat (who then 'left' Tyria) and the Jotun eventually lost their spellcrafting ability due to infighting. The remaining races simply weren't using enough magic to wake the dragons immediately again.
We can guess that Zhaitan was more powerful than the other dragons because the Human Gods were drawn into Tyria from the Mists at The Artesian Waters, rather than anywhere else that the dragons slept. That implies that the dragons do not distribute the magic equally, and that there is a 'winner' each time the Elder Dragons awaken.
I do not believe that the dragons re-absorb energy if one of them is killed off, but it does mean that there is less competition so the remaining dragons do grow stronger. If my theory on dragon energy / magic energy is right, it would mean that the defeated dragon is simply leaking dragon energy (which the dragons do not eat) into the world.
It does raise an interesting question though; was there ever a point where the Elder Dragons went to war with each other? It seems clear that they don't directly fight (at least not that we've seen) and their minions do not appear to be able to corrupt each other (see the Sylvari being resistant to the Risen).
Nemesis121
Member
I hope they go to Elona want to see Palawa Joko, we freed him from his confines in Nightfall now he's ruling Elona...
GW1 concept art
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