New weapon icons. They coming.
Grapesword is bottom row, second icon.
GET YO TICKETS READY
Ooh, they look interesting. I'm glad I saved my ticket!
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Guild Wars 2 |OT4| The only subscription you need is this thread.
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Ooh, they look interesting. I'm glad I saved my ticket!
New weapon icons. They coming.
Grapesword is bottom row, second icon.
GET YO TICKETS READY
Those look like crafting mats.
LumpOfCole
Member
White and gold???? That's Lump style.
theMrCravens
Member
Hopefully not just ticket/gem fest.
Need something to get in-game too.
Need something to get in-game too.
Nemesis121
Member
My friend is a lucky SoB he's gotten 5 tickets from keys he got leveling, while i have got 3 tickets scraps from 30 BL keys
Kos Luftar
Member
That game was orgasmic. I kind of felt bad laughing at Brazilian fans crying but not for long, I just most my laughed.
gamergirl85
Member
This is awesome!!!!!!!
From the Cosplay thread;
A few random ones from AX this past weekend:
Thanks guys
And thank you Roxie too, you didn't have to give me a present haha!
It was so damn beautiful.
Brazilian tears should be captured and used to fill the 2016 Olympic pools.
sackboy2197
Member
Happy Birthday!
So I had posted the Chinese sale numbers over on r/games and one guy was complaining about how GW2 was such a grind. That has always baffled me considering by comparison to real grindy MMOs (FFXI, Ragnarok, Lineage 2, etc) GW2 is the least grindy MMO I can name. Another guy in the thread said "so boring all you do is the same stuff over and over again". That amused me as well considering GW2 has given me the most diverse types of content from a single game that I've ever got in my life. Not to mention that if you want to get right down to it, every video game is the same thing over and over again with different set pieces. He complained that there were no quests and all you did were POIs/Hearts/Vistas in every map. Sounds like someone had blinders on and ran past every DE in the game and it's hilariously ironic that he wants quests when that crap is unbelievably derivative.
Coriolanus
Banned
Hearts and world events are quests. You just don't have to talk to the npc. For some reason, that is enough to make some think that they aren't quests. God forbid that the damn npc's have eyeballs.
I'd say that you shouldn't start a discussion with those guys, tho. Only brings more attention to their posts.Unless you do something like welltall did. That was some ether.
gamergirl85
Member
Thanks guys
And thank you Roxie too, you didn't have to give me a present haha!
Hahaha yeah I know. Enjoy.
In the early hours of this morning when I was still up, I was feeling lucky so had a few flushes in the mystic toilet (I should have done a few attempts at a precursor but ahh well) and I ended up getting the remaining 22 Mystic Clovers I needed from about 50 attempts which was a pretty sweet conversion.
That's something ticked off the precursor list
That's something ticked off the precursor list
Gotta give that the ol' Amen. I don't get it. The first time I got my quest reward automatically from a heart rather than having to return to an NPC, that moment essentially ruined me for traditional "MMO quests" forever. I just don't think I can even tolerate them anymore at all. I'm not kidding, either... I tried TERA, which is free, by all rights has objectively better combat than GW2 and has native controller support... and just looking at my quest log for the first time (it let me tab to a second page D
, my eyes glazed over and I pretty much logged out on the spot for good. It sucks because I might miss out on great games because of essentially a single archaic design element, but it has also crystallized my idea of how I'm willing to spend my time in certain genres.
The Wiki is probably the best thing to look at: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge
Essentially, you throw four items in, and get one of equal or better quality back out. You can't just throw in any old thing, there are recipes of sorts you have to follow. For example you can throw in 4 random rare swords with a small chance of receiving an Exotic sword in return. Otherwise you will just receive a rare back. That's why people call it the mystic toilet, usually you get crap back. Unless the RNG gods like you.
You can also use it to combine four soulbound exotics to get back a sellable exotic.
Those are the crappy uses where you say, "Hey, um. Mr. Zomorros, could I, maybe please, have something nice? Please?"
And he'll whisper, "no."
The Mystic Forge is for making awesome unique Exotics (many of which can be sold for profit) and Ascended backpieces,, promoting crafting materials to higher tiers, Superior Siege weapons for WvW, Mystic Salvage Kits, and Mystic Clovers when you go for a legendary.
And he'll whisper, "no."
The Mystic Forge is for making awesome unique Exotics (many of which can be sold for profit) and Ascended backpieces,, promoting crafting materials to higher tiers, Superior Siege weapons for WvW, Mystic Salvage Kits, and Mystic Clovers when you go for a legendary.
Let me attempt to play devil's advocate, not to defend traditional MMO questing, but rather the dynamic of the NPC questgiver. It's an essential part of Divinity, and it actually contributes to gameplay rather than being a necessary function. When presented with a quest, my protagonists develop their personality based on their willingness and decisions, and may even quarrel amongst themselves. Furthermore, your interactions with questgivers can lead to meaningful plot consequences. So to me the real issue is whether these types of mechanics can be integrated into an MMO, meanwhile avoiding the immersion-breaking appearance of tons of PCs simultaneously interacting with the same NPC.Gotta give that the ol' Amen. I don't get it. The first time I got my quest reward automatically from a heart rather than having to return to an NPC, that moment essentially ruined me for traditional "MMO quests" forever. I just don't think I can even tolerate them anymore at all. I'm not kidding, either... I tried TERA, which is free, by all rights has objectively better combat than GW2 and has native controller support... and just looking at my quest log for the first time (it let me tab to a second page D
It sucks because I might miss out on great games because of essentially a single archaic design element, but it has also crystallized my idea of how I'm willing to spend my time in certain genres.
In other news I think I prefer shield to pair with axe and bow for warrior sPvP. You're ridiculously well-rounded: burst, soft cc, hard cc, channeled block, aoe condi pressure, party might stacking. And you can still get thieves to say, "WTF did that warrior hit me with?" in map chat.
shysaursoft
Member
I have that exact problem with someone I tried to get into the game. They took one look at it and literally said, "where is my todo list of quests?". They wanted the quest hub, with a bunch of NPCS they can run up to, get a giant list of things to kill/fetch, and then go do that. They want that structure. Anything less than that, is "inferior". They didn't want the quest NPCs for plot, or anything like that - they wanted a simple, straightforward "go here do this" and nothing else. That is what WoW did to them. They've become, quite literally, incapable of picking a direction and making up their own mind if that was the right direction to go or not, and then adjusting course based on observations.
Needless to say, they deleted GW2 from their PC. Didn't even give it more than 10 minutes, before condemning it to their "shit game" pile.
It was at that point, that I actually decided to give up on trying to explain to people why GW2 is good in the ways that it is.
So far as I understand Divinity, it is closer to something like tabletop Dungeons and Dragons than it is to an MMO, and thus an "NPC quest" falls closer to the "plot element" side of the spectrum than the "gameplay element" side. If this is the case, I barely even consider it the same thing, and can totally see why and where it would be beneficial.
Contrast your MMO questgiver NPC when the text describing the quest is essentially a barrier between you and completing it as quickly as possible; all characters must complete it the same way; the task is often arbitrarily related or even totally unrelated to the quest plotline; the return to the NPC for reward is a mere artificial time extension.
In a "quest hub"-centric MMO, an NPC is a vending machine that makes you go replace one of its motors after you push the button but before it will give you candy.
I should mention, I think that's fine. I mean, some people do like that structure and the sort of design funnel that makes me shudder is actually how they thrive and become motivated to continue playing.
My issue is more that for the people who enjoy that kind of thing... there are what, like 8 big-budget MMOs on the market right now to choose from, with various quirks and parameters spanning a broad range of tone, gameplay, story emphasis, settings...
Whereas for people like me who can't stand it, there's.... GW2? What else, for the moment? The Secret World, I guess, makes quests into something much more. But then that game had to go and include combat while at the same time pretty clearly not caring about it
Anything else, though? I'm really curious now.
shysaursoft
Member
Oh, totally. It was at that point that I realized that, if someone wants something specific, and GW2 isn't it, they're not going to appreciate GW2 for what it is. And they're free to want the structure they do. So why try to sell them on the good points of something, they're not actually interested in?
I still think GW2 is for people who are *done* with the previous ways of doing things in MMOs, since that's how I approached it, and that's what the game was sold as - but I never really considered people who still wanted the old ways, because they either weren't tired of them, or because they think that's the way things should be done.
I do love how hearts work in the game. They are still close enough to typical quests that you instantly know how they work, but you can just stumble across them randomly or even unintentionally complete them. Yesterday I was exploring Bloodtide Coast and noticed a heart pop up and I killed some pirates and collected some treasure to complete it. Sure, some of them are essentially "Kill X" but 99% of them can be completed in a multitude of ways which is what I love most about them.
Might post some of my birthday loot later haha
Might post some of my birthday loot later haha
To be fair, GW2 didn't really solve the problems with MMO quests. As we've discussed, there's talk that Anet wanted to remove those kinds of quests entirely, but people were so lost as to what to do that they had to add the heart quests to guide players. Heart quests, for all intents and purposes, are the exact same thing as the old NPC quest hubs. All that changed is that you don't talk to the person to initiate the quest, which, while being far more convenient, actually robs you of context and immersion. Who walks into a room and immediately knows the problem and how to solve it without anything happening? Real life doesn't have a notifier in the top right of their peripheral vision.
While I don't know the full circumstances surrounding this decision, I have to say that while it's sad that people need those kinds of quests to be pushed forward, I'm not sure the solution was all that elegant, and worse, it highlights an issue with how Anet originally designed their world. It's like they wanted to create an open MMO world, did so, but then realized that it wasn't compelling. Don't get me wrong, I loved this game. But there are a lot of things in it that are the result of two minds: One wanting to be really innovative and one being really afraid to move forward. While there are hundreds of brilliant ideas in the game, there are dozens of half-baked ones. It's strange, but to be expected given the scale of the project.
Overall, it seems the experiment has been extremely successful for them, and they seem to be taking feedback and improving on stuff as they move forward. With season 2, the game has kinda become something completely new. New areas with verticality, no hearts, and strongly integrated story sections have strengthened their original vision, no doubt.
While I don't know the full circumstances surrounding this decision, I have to say that while it's sad that people need those kinds of quests to be pushed forward, I'm not sure the solution was all that elegant, and worse, it highlights an issue with how Anet originally designed their world. It's like they wanted to create an open MMO world, did so, but then realized that it wasn't compelling. Don't get me wrong, I loved this game. But there are a lot of things in it that are the result of two minds: One wanting to be really innovative and one being really afraid to move forward. While there are hundreds of brilliant ideas in the game, there are dozens of half-baked ones. It's strange, but to be expected given the scale of the project.
Overall, it seems the experiment has been extremely successful for them, and they seem to be taking feedback and improving on stuff as they move forward. With season 2, the game has kinda become something completely new. New areas with verticality, no hearts, and strongly integrated story sections have strengthened their original vision, no doubt.
Coriolanus
Banned
Short answer: yes. Long answer: good luck finding writers reliably that solid.
You'd also have to get over the difference in mindsets. In single player games you do a quest because you wanna see cool stuff happen, some plot, and get a cool item. in mmo's, the plot is usually even worse than in single player, 99% of the quest items will be near-instantly discarded, and, due to the raw volume needed, cool stuff simply will not keep happening. I mean, we bash the personal story stuff, but the sad reality is that it was made with far more care than mmo questlines usually get.
But hey, a lot of people said that quests were one of the few things TSW did really well, so ymmv.
Methinks not having a single RP server was anet's not so subtle way of saying how much they care about immersion. They seem to be veeery big on QoL > Immersion. Also, that real life line...eh.
I actually pretty much disagree. YMMV; it solved all the problems I have with MMO "quests" in the traditional sense. I would have certainly preferred it deviated far more, but...
..that would have been too much for everyone.
Ummmm.
No;
1) no quest log (progress is saved and resumed merely by exiting/entering the area, and never needs to be "checked")
2) almost always, more than one task contributes to completion; you can finish it by doing only one task, some but not all, or a combination of all
3) no obvious "fixed" total bear asses to collect, merely an abstract bar
4) Dynamic events frequently overlap heart zones and fill them for "free," and make sense in context
5) you don't have to return to the NPC for your reward
I just wish I could get inside the heads of the contingent who got some sense of compelling story immersion from a combat-centric MMO. It has yet to happen for me. I can get immersed in the zone ambiance and circumstantial lore very easily in GW2, far better than many other games, but the idea that I'm supposed to feel some sense of true immersion, like that I get from, say, The Last of Us, while fulfilling a prescribed "quest" of any kind is laughable to me
Funnily enough, tons of the hearts ARE situations that are immediately recognizable. "Oh, there are fires everywhere/centaurs are occupying this village/there's graffiti all over these walls/soldiers are lying on the ground sick." Many of them could be completed on context alone without any text instruction!
It's just a fundamental disagreement and that's fine, but I found the solution more than adequate during the leveling process of my first character, which is when that kind of thing matters most.
Dry Top/Season 2 content, just like Southsun Cove and Orr, also isn't meant to be something that characters experience while leveling up, as are the zones with hearts in them.
shysaursoft
Member
In real life if I see a building on fire, I know to go find water - I don't need to run up to an NPC, get told "OMG BUILDING FIRE HERE BUCKET WATER THERE".
Heck, in GW2, half the time NPCs run up to ME and go "omg bandits over there help plz" and then I know where to go. That's how things *should* be. They could have added more stuff like that, I feel. Even for Hearts.
But yeah, GW2 is aiming squarely at being a game first, and an "alternate reality to live in" second. Which is fine. Not every game can be Ultima Online. ;..; Plus I'd rather have a game to play, than a job to go to.
But I wouldn't mind fishing being implemented.
Heck, in GW2, half the time NPCs run up to ME and go "omg bandits over there help plz" and then I know where to go. That's how things *should* be. They could have added more stuff like that, I feel. Even for Hearts.
But yeah, GW2 is aiming squarely at being a game first, and an "alternate reality to live in" second. Which is fine. Not every game can be Ultima Online. ;..; Plus I'd rather have a game to play, than a job to go to.
But I wouldn't mind fishing being implemented.
shysaursoft
Member
I'd just like one 'down time' activity I can do while being social that gives mild rewards, and since nobody plays Belcher's Bluff...
Plus, with how GW2 can make new activities using bundles, fishing could be really engaging. You equip the rod, skill 1 to cast, then use 2 to reel in, 3 to tug. Once a fish hooks, the skills get replaced by left, right, yank, reel, and your stamina bar becomes a durability gauge for the line. Etc.
Plus, with how GW2 can make new activities using bundles, fishing could be really engaging. You equip the rod, skill 1 to cast, then use 2 to reel in, 3 to tug. Once a fish hooks, the skills get replaced by left, right, yank, reel, and your stamina bar becomes a durability gauge for the line. Etc.
You don't like the Daily Activities? The rewards really aren't half bad. Though, wait, I guess you don't get guild chat when you're in them, which sort of throws out the being social part... yeah okay, nevermind.
Tera does not have better combat than GW2.
Hearts are a pretty decent compromise. Could have been a bit better in that in keeping you in an area for an extended amount of time, more stuff occured or the world changed more often so that emergent game play happened more frequently. But hearts' synergy with DEs is okay, too.
Hearts are a pretty decent compromise. Could have been a bit better in that in keeping you in an area for an extended amount of time, more stuff occured or the world changed more often so that emergent game play happened more frequently. But hearts' synergy with DEs is okay, too.
What I mean by the fact that hearts don't solve the MMO quest problem is that they are still largely uninteresting, meter-filling, repetitive actions. I think that they were a good step forward, but not quite there.
It's important to understand that I've barely played any MMO other than Guild Wars for more than a few hours. I don't have that context of "These quests were really bad, hearts are so much better". I'm just coming in from the perspective of someone who just doesn't really love the hearts. Rarely did I find them compelling. I much preferred the event chains of later-game areas.
I didn't grow up playing a lot of RPG's with NPC quests and such, I grew up with Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. My perspective on gameplay progress is less driven by "task completion" and more by the game guiding you with puzzles, combat, and story. I'm not a completionist, and bars, lists, and percentages do not motivate me. I'm not saying one perspective is better than the other, just where my tastes developed from. I totally get and understand those that grew up with Ultima, WoW, Elder Scrolls, and other WRPG's.
I get why they had to include hearts, and I'm glad they decided to mix it up a bit from established "quest standards". One of the greatest strengths of the game is that you really don't have to do the hearts if you don't want to. The world has plenty to do with out them, and you can even level up without doing them too. This is why it was never a huge issue to me. Also, GW2 also has a lot of the elements I mentioned loving in the previous paragraph. It does guide you through the world with puzzles, combat, and story. Hell, in some small ways I'd say GW2 is closer to a 3D Platformer like Banjo Kazooie than it is WoW. Hearts were just kind of this weird reminder that it was still had a foot in those old theme park MMO conventions.
It's important to understand that I've barely played any MMO other than Guild Wars for more than a few hours. I don't have that context of "These quests were really bad, hearts are so much better". I'm just coming in from the perspective of someone who just doesn't really love the hearts. Rarely did I find them compelling. I much preferred the event chains of later-game areas.
I didn't grow up playing a lot of RPG's with NPC quests and such, I grew up with Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. My perspective on gameplay progress is less driven by "task completion" and more by the game guiding you with puzzles, combat, and story. I'm not a completionist, and bars, lists, and percentages do not motivate me. I'm not saying one perspective is better than the other, just where my tastes developed from. I totally get and understand those that grew up with Ultima, WoW, Elder Scrolls, and other WRPG's.
I get why they had to include hearts, and I'm glad they decided to mix it up a bit from established "quest standards". One of the greatest strengths of the game is that you really don't have to do the hearts if you don't want to. The world has plenty to do with out them, and you can even level up without doing them too. This is why it was never a huge issue to me. Also, GW2 also has a lot of the elements I mentioned loving in the previous paragraph. It does guide you through the world with puzzles, combat, and story. Hell, in some small ways I'd say GW2 is closer to a 3D Platformer like Banjo Kazooie than it is WoW. Hearts were just kind of this weird reminder that it was still had a foot in those old theme park MMO conventions.
theMrCravens
Member
Hearts weren't supposed to be in the game.
Then some casual QA testers (prob coming from WoW mainstream) didn't understand the new dynamic event concept...
Then some casual QA testers (prob coming from WoW mainstream) didn't understand the new dynamic event concept...
shysaursoft
Member
Oh, I love all the daily activities. I've played far more Keg Brawl than I'd like to admit. But I'd like something solo.
I think we might, yeah- coincident with a new race (whether in a new boxed expansion, some kind of big "psuedo-expansion" release, or however they do it one day), for parity with the new player experience of the other races.
I probably shouldn't have said that. It seemed like it could have, but I didn't get anywhere near far enough to judge it properly in comparison. I certainly don't like belong locked in place even for projectile skills. I did love its native gamepad implementation though.
Yeah, agreed to a tee.
Oh, well I agree with that, but you have to view them as exactly what they are: a compromise for the lowest common denominator, reliant on MMO tropes.
I mean, I was talking to Colin about the idea of removing levels from Guild Wars 2, which he'd have preferred, as recently as last week! As much as I'd like a completely novel version of questing- that doesn't feel anything like "questing"- these concepts are just too radical a proposition for the kind of broad swath of players ArenaNet and NCSoft need to target.
Ahhh, well that is an important distinction, and it does make a lot of sense. I definitely only found a handful of them legitimately compelling in their own right (I really liked juicing frogs into detection potions, okay!?).
Something to bear in mind though, is that despite their sort of ubiquitous, static nature, it's totally possible to level from 1-80 in a variety of ways without ever intentionally completing a single heart. That's honestly not something you can say about quests in many MMOs.
I totally get where you are coming from.
I, personally, would prefer the version of GW2 that goes all the way to the action-platformer end of the spectrum. No levels, no hearts, no stats. You unlock skills/traits over time but could take on the toughest enemy in the game in the first 10 minutes if you had the skill for it. But at the same time I can't help but keep my eye on the market, and I get what they are up to.
When I look at it from a perspective of "okay, this is a necessary evil," then hearts (and specifically the heart/DE combination during the leveling process for your first character) are a substantial leap over quest hubs. Night and day for me, as I discovered when trying out TERA.
Does it actually shut you out of Guild chat? I can't remember now
shysaursoft
Member
Hearts are not a paradigm shift, but rather a cosmetic and convenience upgrade. The essential constraint of being tied to a small area to perform the actions is unchanged. Of course if you have zone spanning quests like Baldur's Gate, most gamers will revolt.
Levels are not just about giving players a sense of progression, but also about pacing the player's experience of the content. Even without levels, developers would still create ways to time-gate content.
And there are always stats. Even if it were classless, gear would have different parameters. Even if all gear had the same parameters, different skills would still have different stats (damage, range, windup time, cooldown time, etc.).
Levels are not just about giving players a sense of progression, but also about pacing the player's experience of the content. Even without levels, developers would still create ways to time-gate content.
And there are always stats. Even if it were classless, gear would have different parameters. Even if all gear had the same parameters, different skills would still have different stats (damage, range, windup time, cooldown time, etc.).
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
happy bday brax!
Give's the lyrics of the song a far more gruesome meaning .
Holy shit.
On that light note.. it's my birthday as of right now here in the UK!
Also a bit late
New weapon icons. They coming.
Grapesword is bottom row, second icon.
GET YO TICKETS READY
*Hugs ticket.
I wouldn't mind the removal of levels for this game. Given how the game only really opens up when you hit 80, and the fact that combat is so gimped at lower levels, I prefer if the game actually just gave you all the tools at the beginning. Progression can be done in getting equips and special skills or traits, kinda like Monster Hunter in that aspect. In fact, it would be nice if this game took some ideas from MonHun, like better boss fights.
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