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Guild Wars 2 |OT5| We've got fun and games
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They've added quite a few good quality of life upgrades since then, but there's still a few bemusing omissions (like build templates). Dungeons were revamped a bit but if you thought they were awful before I don't think you'll think any differently now.
Kos Luftar
Member
Dungeons haven't changed too much. There is more of them in the way of the fractal dungeons.
Still worth trying because game will be getting an expansion this year. Lots of things(builds/traits) changing before that.
What didn't you like about dungeons?
Ps. In the guild they are known as Fungeons so you might just like different things.
Still worth trying because game will be getting an expansion this year. Lots of things(builds/traits) changing before that.
What didn't you like about dungeons?
Ps. In the guild they are known as Fungeons so you might just like different things.
They were a complete mess with no coordination or strategy to the bosses whatsoever. Keep in mind I'm talking about the first month after the games release. If not much has changed since then, thats really lazy on their part.
Fractals were added to the game and are similar to dungeons, but they give more emphasis to what you are looking for.
Your early dungeon experience was probably colored by the fact that the game was new and substantially different from most games in the genre. A lot of players used to the "Holy Trinity" of other games were struggling to apply that playstyle and mindset to a game that's incompatible with both and has only a "soft" trinity at best. The attempts to shoehorn the old Tank / Healer / DPS mechanics into the game were never going to work without things like dedicated healers and ultra-predictable aggro mechanics, but as the saying goes that's not a bug (or "poor design" as every armchair game dev was quick to proclaim), it's a feature. It's different, and being different in this genre is good (made all the more important because it's also so rare)
Players have since gotten past all that (or returned to the well-worn treadmills from whence they sprang), having learned what works and what doesn't, and have generally gotten better at the kind of gameplay the game requires. Most GAFguild runs are smooth and enjoyable, and there's usually a good number of people forming groups for them nightly. The dungeons work when everyone pulls their weight, knows how to adapt to changes and comes prepared for them, and most importantly, plays their profession well rather than just sticking to a narrow role. Everyone "tanks" (that is, they control the enemy) with abilities like immobilize, slow or ward spells, everyone "heals" (or rather, supports) by using applying boons, removing conditions and reviving downed players. There's still a lot of movement and sudden changes to adapt to, and it can still feel quite chaotic, but the game's population has learned how to embrace those kind of mechanics now.
Of course, players have also learned how to break those mechanics, having found a few specific tactics / strategies / borderline exploits that take most of the danger (but also most of the fun) out of dungeons. Basically, by all hiding in a corner and standing on top of each other ("stacking") and focusing on pure damage-oriented builds (the "zerker meta"), you can kill off most enemies safely because all of your damage and what healing you have is tightly focused in one spot. It's fairly boring and requires little effort once you know the tricks, but people are so reward-obsessed in MMOs that I don't think a lot of them care. For some people, that's their idea of fun, and thankfully both of these approaches can exist in the same game (you just have to be careful which one you're getting into, especially if using the Looking for Group tool).
Either way, the result is the same; if you found Guild Wars 2's dungeons chaotic before, you can either get a normal, non-speed run / GAF group and get through dungeon together with skill and strategy, or you can negate the chaos by abusing loopholes in the game's mechanics. Both ways will generally avoid the issues players experienced at launch.
To put it bluntly - dungeons were a shit show when the game first came out. People didn't know how things worked, some encounters had little room for error and some encounters were just broken. As people learned how things worked and people began to use better gear, things got better.
Of course, it's still possible to have such an experience. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
appletoasty
Member
Since everyone has tons of bad things to say about dungeons, I'll chime in with some good things... I really enjoy dungeons, they're probably my favourite aspect of the game at the moment. Yeah, some of the bosses you just kind of melt without seeing anything (looking at you Howling King), but coordinating everything to be able to do that is kind of cool.
I have a group from the guild that I run with regularly. We go on Mumble to chat during our runs and we've become pretty good friends over the last few months. We use the zerker meta and some speed run tactics but I hardly think our runs are boring or lacking in skill. We coordinate everything and learn new stuff all the time.
That being said, running dungeons with random people from LFG is the worst thing I can think of in this game. I almost quit the game before I really knew anything about dungeons because of PUGs. I don't know how anyone learns any of the dungeon paths (without wanting to strangle their teammates) if they're not in a guild with people willing to teach.
After I started running dungeons with GAFfers I've really come to enjoy it, and it's basically the only thing keeping me here. So, take that as you will.
I have a group from the guild that I run with regularly. We go on Mumble to chat during our runs and we've become pretty good friends over the last few months. We use the zerker meta and some speed run tactics but I hardly think our runs are boring or lacking in skill. We coordinate everything and learn new stuff all the time.
That being said, running dungeons with random people from LFG is the worst thing I can think of in this game. I almost quit the game before I really knew anything about dungeons because of PUGs. I don't know how anyone learns any of the dungeon paths (without wanting to strangle their teammates) if they're not in a guild with people willing to teach.
After I started running dungeons with GAFfers I've really come to enjoy it, and it's basically the only thing keeping me here. So, take that as you will.
shysaursoft
Member
I find GW2's dungeons no better and no worse than FFXIV and WoW's dungeons, honestly. It's more about who you're running with, than the dungeons themselves. The only thing I think GW2's dungeons need, is more random elements, surprise events that can throw off the speedrunners and stackers.
But at least in GW2, you don't have to wait 20 minutes for a tank or healer to grace you with their presence so you can actually play the content.
But at least in GW2, you don't have to wait 20 minutes for a tank or healer to grace you with their presence so you can actually play the content.
hockeypuck
Member
>95% of my dungeon runs are with PUGs from LFG and >95% go very smoothly (not always speedrun-smooth, but at least no wipes and progressing at a decent pace). I've been kicked twice since 2012. Maybe being a guardian has something to do with it, I dunno.
So the moral of the story is, become a guardian. It's like adding 2 to 4 inches to your
height.
Kos Luftar
Member
Knowing that the won't preview the Druid or Revenant Specialization, which specialization you want the to preview today and which you think they will actually preview?
I would love to see the Engineer Specialization but based on how many changes they are making to the "core specializations" of the Engineer, I doubt the Elite Specialization will be ready to be previewed this week.
I predict the Warrior will be revealed this week because it seemed like it had the least changes to its core specializations and since the warrior already has so many weapons, they probably had the easiest time adding another one (probably off-hand, pistol).
I would love to see the Engineer Specialization but based on how many changes they are making to the "core specializations" of the Engineer, I doubt the Elite Specialization will be ready to be previewed this week.
I predict the Warrior will be revealed this week because it seemed like it had the least changes to its core specializations and since the warrior already has so many weapons, they probably had the easiest time adding another one (probably off-hand, pistol).
I do prefer dungeons the most out of all the content in the game. With the ease of the LFG tool, I can get into one in less than 2 minutes (unless I'm grouped with Adriaaa where it then somehow takes 1 hour). It's where the bulk of my GW2 fun comes from. I see them like playing an arcade game - content I generally know but with different players and other mishaps shaping the experience each time. I certainly find it to be far more fun than grinding or doing regular MMO activities.
Kos Luftar
Member
It seemed like you had way more fun Ranked PvPing than doing dungeons.
My love for ranked PVP can't be expressed in words.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
If we are not going to get polearms, then give warriors staff and let them use it as a melee weapon!!
Already on it.
It's probably tomorrow. Tuesday is their usual news cycle day. Last week's happening on Thursday was either because of some behind the scenes issues, or wanting as small a turnaround time to the next Ready Up episode.
I'm personally guessing Warrior or Elementalist this week, whichever was the very first class to be revealed for GW2. Going in that order just feels right to me.
appletoasty
Member
Does that mean they're starting with mesmer for specializations?
I reserve the right to be wrong. Chronomancer first? Yes, please.
(Maybe it'll be in reverse GW2 reveal order?)
UltimateIke
Member
It's the tier 3 armor. Who can say no to that?
The fact that you're a very good player and know what you're doing probably doesn't hurt.
I've done a bunch of both gaf "speed" dungeons near nightly for the past several months (We all run damage builds and skip/stack though we don't care too much about having a meta party conp) as well as hitting lfgs to fill the gaps. Yea, lfgs go smoothly 95% of the time but a lot of niggling issues just make them not nearly as enjoyable. I also generally lfg on guard since parties fill quicker when it's a guard and not a ranger. The better an lfg run goes, the less anyone talks. A lot of people might not and don't care but I personally think it's a little draining after some time. Also the lack of synergy doesnt ever really cause wipes because individually, people know what they are doing. But for instance I staff clear blossoms in TA up until right before the dogs and then wait for stealth. It makes perfect sense to me, get close and stealth all the way through from there. Instead I get chewed out "yo, don't staff if I'm gonna stealth." Nothing went wrong, but wasn't enjoyable either. Not to mention field overlaps when a party ele wants to stack might but some other guard does wall first on some enemy that doesn't even use reflectable projectiles. Seeing groups with three guards default to ranging the se3 tank is also a bit of an eye roll.
I don't even want to touch on the crapshoot that is the coe1 computer, regardless of the average AP of the group. I also think pugs are too resistant to change. Our gaf group found a better place (imo) to stack up the elite golems there but I don't dare bring it up with pugs because it's the "wrong way". It's also nice knowing that in our gaf groups we can, say, take down Ac3 boss with or without Grast, but in pugs you most of the time have to play npc tug of war.
Also I don't feel there's really a need to bring Alpha (or the se3 destroyer) into a corner anymore without fgs4 anymore unless the wars in the group /really/ want to make sure they hit with the whole whirl (which ike tells me they can do anyway) but nope, all the pugs corner him out of habit. I guess for the destroyer it's more likely to not be stacked but sometimes i have to make sure to run in first. Our gaf group just stands on top of both alpha and him and burn them down, with the exception of the end of coe3 since that exit door is quite the troublemaker, ha.
I spend probably more than half of my game play time in dungeons, not counting afk /age inflation periods. I'm super proud of what the group we've formed has become, enough so that things feel wrong if we don't get the chance to run anything for too many nights in a row. We are still learning and trying new things, whether it's personally stretching out to other classes, or trying certain strategies that pug groups would never be flexible enough to try. We were able to clear Arah 1 2 and 3 last night in just over 90 minutes (maybe it was closer to 100, we're so bad),( Edit: I'm told maybe it was actually closer to 80, we're so good) and we still have lots of kinks to work out in Arah 1. I'm excited to see how much room there is for improvement. At the same time, I'm much more willing to have gaffers around as I try to learn classes like engi instead of pugs just seeing an AP amount and making assumptions from there.
If you don't like the chaotic nature of dungeon groups without traditional trinity mechanics, I do suggest maybe tagging along with a grout like ours. People will like what they like and if you don't care to stack or use stealth to skip things, that's really fine, but it's not like anyone can slap on zerker gear, run to the end of the opening coe hallway and fight everything at once if everyone in the group doesn't know what they are doing aND how to contribute. Same with pulling multiple spider groups at once before Malrona or dealing with Seamus in cm3. Believe me, it's a little bit more than just melting them dowm and not knowing how the enemies work.
I will admit that the guaranteed gold rewards from dungeons are a bit of a draw compared to something like fractals, which I only do every handful of days, since chances are I'll just end up with a ring I don't need. I pugged to fractal 50 once and /gaffed/ to 50 the second time. And I think it's obvious which one I preferred.
I don't even want to touch on the crapshoot that is the coe1 computer, regardless of the average AP of the group. I also think pugs are too resistant to change. Our gaf group found a better place (imo) to stack up the elite golems there but I don't dare bring it up with pugs because it's the "wrong way". It's also nice knowing that in our gaf groups we can, say, take down Ac3 boss with or without Grast, but in pugs you most of the time have to play npc tug of war.
Also I don't feel there's really a need to bring Alpha (or the se3 destroyer) into a corner anymore without fgs4 anymore unless the wars in the group /really/ want to make sure they hit with the whole whirl (which ike tells me they can do anyway) but nope, all the pugs corner him out of habit. I guess for the destroyer it's more likely to not be stacked but sometimes i have to make sure to run in first. Our gaf group just stands on top of both alpha and him and burn them down, with the exception of the end of coe3 since that exit door is quite the troublemaker, ha.
I spend probably more than half of my game play time in dungeons, not counting afk /age inflation periods. I'm super proud of what the group we've formed has become, enough so that things feel wrong if we don't get the chance to run anything for too many nights in a row. We are still learning and trying new things, whether it's personally stretching out to other classes, or trying certain strategies that pug groups would never be flexible enough to try. We were able to clear Arah 1 2 and 3 last night in just over 90 minutes (maybe it was closer to 100, we're so bad),( Edit: I'm told maybe it was actually closer to 80, we're so good) and we still have lots of kinks to work out in Arah 1. I'm excited to see how much room there is for improvement. At the same time, I'm much more willing to have gaffers around as I try to learn classes like engi instead of pugs just seeing an AP amount and making assumptions from there.
If you don't like the chaotic nature of dungeon groups without traditional trinity mechanics, I do suggest maybe tagging along with a grout like ours. People will like what they like and if you don't care to stack or use stealth to skip things, that's really fine, but it's not like anyone can slap on zerker gear, run to the end of the opening coe hallway and fight everything at once if everyone in the group doesn't know what they are doing aND how to contribute. Same with pulling multiple spider groups at once before Malrona or dealing with Seamus in cm3. Believe me, it's a little bit more than just melting them dowm and not knowing how the enemies work.
I will admit that the guaranteed gold rewards from dungeons are a bit of a draw compared to something like fractals, which I only do every handful of days, since chances are I'll just end up with a ring I don't need. I pugged to fractal 50 once and /gaffed/ to 50 the second time. And I think it's obvious which one I preferred.
Kos Luftar
Member
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/claim-your-spot-in-the-next-heart-of-thorns-closed-beta/
Time to farm Silverwastes and Dry Top!
Time to farm Silverwastes and Dry Top!
theMrCravens
Member
Bleh... Thought I was done with that.
Hope it has a high drop rate.
Would be extremely frustrating to be there for hours and not get one.
ANet sure loves their RNG.
Also, Mesmer might be the first specialization they go over.
https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/592720217459011586
Also, Mesmer might be the first specialization they go over.
https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/592720217459011586
Haha, that's a pretty odd way to give people access
Give beta access to the people that will actually play the beta. Not a bad move, honestly.
UltimateIke
Member
It's a good way to make sure people who are actually playing the game get access, I guess. But in that case, why not just have it drop from stuff everywhere?
Enemies in the defense phases of The Silverwastes don't drop loot, so I wonder if Dry Top will be the better bet. Unless the item can come from the bonus UI chests.
Enemies in the defense phases of The Silverwastes don't drop loot, so I wonder if Dry Top will be the better bet. Unless the item can come from the bonus UI chests.
Got tired of dungeons long ago, but I kept doing them for the 'virtual wealth.' Completed hobby dungeon wossit 350'ish times last year after snagging Dungeon master. So I figure twice that counting the year before. Burnout probably colors my view of them these days, but I'm glad they seemingly aren't a part of HoT; at least as we know them.
Static content with poor AI doesn't do the game justice. Its really only in pvp where everything clicks. Standing on top of mobs using the same builds, the same skills, and all that just isn't fun. Its annoying it pays out better than everything else, but I was surprised I could still generate 200-300 gold a month.
If they do more instanced content in HoT or later, hopefully they can come up with a way to spice it up some. I still dream of a PvP dungeon, but the audience for that might be quite small. Fractals seem a step up, but even they're routine at this point.
Static content with poor AI doesn't do the game justice. Its really only in pvp where everything clicks. Standing on top of mobs using the same builds, the same skills, and all that just isn't fun. Its annoying it pays out better than everything else, but I was surprised I could still generate 200-300 gold a month.
If they do more instanced content in HoT or later, hopefully they can come up with a way to spice it up some. I still dream of a PvP dungeon, but the audience for that might be quite small. Fractals seem a step up, but even they're routine at this point.
Great post Lev, summed up my thoughts.
I have to admit I was never a fan of dungeons. Their repetitive nature bothers me so much that even a CoF1 pug feels too long. However, playing with my friends is a completely different experience, even if we use
Because HoT is tied to these zones and they might be trying to pull returning players to experience it.
All these nice words and then the guilt trip. Zeroth please
I'm up for fractals tomorrow but I'm probably busy tonight
UltimateIke
Member
It's more like after wiping on Molten Duo twice, everyone is too ashamed to ever Fractal again. ^_^
I am just ribbing, you know. You'll never get that fractal tonic
unless you already have it
clearly you needed frost spirit to distract one of them
NotMyUsername
Member
I almost used LFG last night to do the two newer story dungeons I haven't touched yet. This recent discussion is sure making me curious what to expect from people. Can't wait to be told I'm doing everything wrong!
Story dungeons can be fine, actually, if you end up with all new players. Post something like "watching all cinematics" and you will likely get a good result. Explorable modes are the real issue- if I wrote "CoE1, no stacking" I'd be waiting all day.
Just join something that says, or start one that says, "first timer!". You'll likely get similarly skilled players (who are scared of LFG tool) or a vet who will join out of boredom / playing on an alt / likes showing new players around, and will make it go smoothly.
My GF made a group for TA, "no stacking - watching cutscenes" and some guy who joined blindly without reading the description was going on and on about how terrible the cutscenes were, complaining why they weren't stacking and then mocked Necromancers which 3 other players were playing as. If I were playing at the time I would've kicked him ^_^ but the other players who were all new were too nice to do so.
Kos Luftar
Member
I wish Ike-Zeroth-Apple-Levyne would run some bad builds during GAF Dungeon runs because every time I run dungeons with them I feel so unnecessary, especially if apple and zeroth are on their Eles.
I could play ranger again
UltimateIke
Member
I played Arah 1/2/3 last night with Warrior Hammer + Sword/Warhorn the whole time.
Nemesis121
Member
I run for money...
Kos Luftar
Member
https://youtu.be/2GqvgQO75LU
Guild Wars 2 Podcast featuring GAFs own ARKEN!
Guild Wars 2 Podcast featuring GAFs own ARKEN!
Guess we will just have to not bring Zeroth and Apple!
Vigilant Walrus
Member
ANet sure loves their RNG.
Also, Mesmer might be the first specialization they go over.
https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/592720217459011586
How can the shield make mesmers have new way to use and shatter illusions? They have said that they don't want people to "waste them".
Shields are normally for defense so I am wondering if there will be skills that give protection, barriers and stuff like that?
maybe a greatly increased survivability on their part? If a mesmer illusion could be directly controlled by the player with considerable amount of health, it would be quite the mind-fuck.
it creates a situation where a mesmer is naked and exposed if he is "channeling" his/her power in a illusion or clone. I believe Hunter had a skill like that in WoW, where you could take control of your pet, leaving the caster exposed. it could create some interesting team situations, and a good tool for scouting in both PVE and PvP.
Just a little thingy, remember that becoming an elite specialization does not mean you absolutely have to use the new weapon. It's just an additional option only the elite specialization gets.
Edit: looking closer at the picture... I want to say something about the shield design, but let's skip that and focus on the fact that the illusion behind the mesmer has a different look from the usual clone/phantasms. So right off the bat, you Mesmer's Elite Specialization probably changes the properties of any and all illusions you generate, complete with brand new models for them.
Edit: looking closer at the picture... I want to say something about the shield design, but let's skip that and focus on the fact that the illusion behind the mesmer has a different look from the usual clone/phantasms. So right off the bat, you Mesmer's Elite Specialization probably changes the properties of any and all illusions you generate, complete with brand new models for them.
Eh, I don't think the shield skills will be that insane in themselves. All mesmer offhand weapons summon a phantasm and this will be no different. I would wager that either one skill causes the new Slow and the phantasm taunts, or vice-versa.
That's more than a little thing; I had forgotten. So then the focus becomes the new heal, utilities, and elites. Therefore it's unlikely my shout cleric warrior, for example, will be able to make use of the new specialization without giving up shouts and warbanner. Definitely intriguing though for say elementalist where I'm fine sticking with staff.
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