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Why isn't Guild Wars 2 more popular?

Nocturno999

Member
It's probably the most disappointing sequel I've ever played.

From and incredible Action/RPG/Card game hybrid to a terrible generic MMO.

Mesmers were an amazing unique class and became so boring in the sequel.
 

xealo

Member
Because it destroyed a bit of the following it had with the move to the Open World MMO and decided to be a WoW clone.

It's not a bad game, I had lot's of fun with it, but for me, Guild Wars 1 is where the real charm was.

I'll never understand why people call GW2 a WoW clone. It didn't play anything like WoW in 2012 when it came out, and it still doesn't.

This seems more like GW1 fans just bandying "WoW clone" about to dismiss the game, rather than thinking about what a WoW clone actually would be, which is more in the vein of say SWTOR.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
I'm sorry, but this really incites a "WTF AM I READING?" reaction from me.

Every single decent character action game will have movement lock built into each animation. Some moves will have more movement than others - that's part of your consideration when you're figuring out which moves to use. Every single bloody game with decent combat will do this because you can't divorce the movement of your legs from the rest of your body, you NEED to use your legs to reinforce your movement in order to put the full weight of your body into attacks. Every game that fails to account for this ends up feeling floaty and gamey in the absolute worst ways.

It might feel nicer to you to play a video game that way, but it is NOT better game design. Not by a long shot.

Makes me wonder if you ever played a Souls game, and if so, how far you managed to get. Must have been utterly infuriating to you.
Souls is not character action souls is the opposite of a character action in terms of animation commitment. You know what a dodge cancel is right?
 
Because it destroyed a bit of the following it had with the move to the Open World MMO and decided to be a WoW clone.

It's not a bad game, I had lot's of fun with it, but for me, Guild Wars 1 is where the real charm was.
For me, this is it. I LOVE Guild Wars, it's one of my favorite games ever. I still play it every once in a while, in fact. But GW2? It's a huge disappointment, easily one of the most disappointing games ever, and the first reply said why: because it's not a sequel to Guild Wars, really, it's a WoW clone. Guild Wars is so much better (in my opinion) than WoW, it's not even close! Why in the world did they think that making GW into a WoW clone with a few GW touches here and there was actually a good idea? It isn't, at all. All they managed to do by doing that is drive away fans of the original game like me... and while it did attract new fans, there weren't nearly enough of them to compete with WoW's numbers.

Right from its announcement it was clear what GW2 was going to be, and it's really unfortunate that they stuck to it to the end, because I'd still really, really love to see a sequel to Guild Wars. It's such an amazing and addictive game, and while the original is still fantastic and one of the better-looking games of its time, it'd be great to see something new like it. But between its simplified skill system (where you can't fully customize your build anymore), its ditching of the instanced world with monsters you can kill 'permanently' (until you leave the zone) in favor of generic MMO respawning badguys, the de-emphasizing of multiplayer grouping throughout most of the non-PVP arena) game, that the game now has the appearance of infinite levels just to more satisfy grinding fans and takes longer to hit 'max', etc, etc... that is not the GW I love, and it's a real shame. It's the opposite (within the genre) in far too many ways, in fact.

.., Maybe I should go play some GW1 now. It's still the best online RPG I have ever played.

I'll never understand why people call GW2 a WoW clone. It didn't play anything like WoW in 2012 when it came out, and it still doesn't.

This seems more like GW1 fans just bandying "WoW clone" about to dismiss the game, rather than thinking about what a WoW clone actually would be, which is more in the vein of say SWTOR.

It's not the exact same game as WoW, sure, but it is a game in that style in a way that GW1 definitely is not. They got things much more right the first time.
 

Laiza

Member
Souls is not character action souls is the opposite of a character action in terms of animation commitment. You know what a dodge cancel is right?
Semantics. They're cut from the same cloth. I'm well aware the games referred to as "character action" are usually faster-paced and provide players with tools to avoid being caught defenseless, but they're still illustrative of my point that good combat does not involve the character sliding around with the movement of their legs completely divorced from their upper body.

Speaking of, this is actually something I have a bone to pick against Warframe as well. They add all these cool attacks and they even animate the legs properly for a significant portion of them, but you can still slide around in a hilariously gamey fashion that completely takes me out of the experience. Funny how that works. FFXIV, same thing. The legs are animated fully for every swing, you just sliiiiide around like you're being tugged by some invisible force with frictionless soles. It's bad.

PSO2 does it right. Dragon's Dogma does it right. For Honor does it right (but of course it does, it's a fighting game). If only devs could get this one thing right, I would have so much less to complain about today. Sigh.

I do feel bad for people who picked warrior though, it's pretty much the simplest and most boring class in the game with very little skill required to do anything. The saving grace of other classes was how flashy their skills were and the unique mechanics they had like mesmers and engineers and it's all things the warrior lacked imo.
I can see that. And by the time I got around to trying other classes, I was just so bored of the same old heart grinding that I couldn't be bothered. (Not that it really mattered anyway, since I'm not a fan of the way the game's combat plays out on a base level.)
 

5il3nc3r

Member
If there is a Guild Wars 3, there is possibility it will go back to the instanced world since that's the trend these days.(Destiny, The Division and Secret World Legends)
 

Orcastar

Member
Played it for about a month at launch, trying out a bunch of different classes, and didn't like it at all. Vastly prefer FFXIV.
 
This is a silly track to take.

I knew within an hour whether or not I'd like Blade & Soul's combat (spoiler: I did). The feel of the combat becomes readily apparent from the get-go, and the depth of the mechanics are self-evident just from looking at the tooltips of your skills.

I played my warrior in GW2 all the way to the level cap, and I played in a bunch of group dungeons too, but you know, that initial feeling of general boredom never really went away. In fact, it just gave way to frustration when I hit the dungeons and realized the game has no fucking mechanics for dealing with group combat, why the fuck is the incoming damage so insanely high, how is anyone supposed to know what to do when the game gives you absolutely no guidance and no strategies for dealing with the shit they're throwing at you?! It was just an absolute failure on every level.

You can't have an open world that's completely unchallenging and unengaging and then make the dungeons utterly impossible for most players to complete without dying left and right. I honestly cannot comprehend how the game was released in the state it was. it was one of the worst experiences of my MMORPG career, and considering I started all the way back when Everquest was a thing, that's saying something! I am genuinely of the impression that the dev team had no fucking clue what they were actually going for, and just flailing around trying to put something together without any real direction. This was in very, VERY stark contrast to my experience in Blade & Soul, where the devs clearly knew what the hell they were doing and how to accomplish their goals and how to make sure players didn't get fucking creamed the first time they stepped into a group dungeon.

At any rate, it doesn't matter to me whether or not you consider my criticisms legitimate. What matters to me is that I expected nothing and I was still let down, and Arenanet has soured my impressions of their output forevermore. Everything they've done to handle the game post-launch did not help matters at all. They felt directionless, their content anemic and utterly missing the point of an MMORPG in the first place. They didn't even stick to their initial manifesto and reneged on it HARD with the expansion. They have no integrity whatsoever. My opinion of that studio, or at least their leadership, is near the bottom of my list of MMO devs and I have a lot of shitty devs in that list.

It's really the lost potential that hits me most. There could have been something really great here, but they fucked it up. They fucked it up bad. They had a good thing going with GW1 and then they managed to fumble so hard they accidentally landed a touchdown for the other team. I can never go back to them now.

What's really disappointing is that Blade & Soul came out about 11 years ago and no one has learned from it. Best MMO combat I've ever had the pleasure of playing.

It should have been the standard that MMO devs looked to model their own combat after instead of WoW imo.


Souls is not character action souls is the opposite of a character action in terms of animation commitment. You know what a dodge cancel is right?

Whether you call it character action or not is irrelevant to the point being made. In Souls games any melee attack stops analog movement.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
For me, this is it. I LOVE Guild Wars, it's one of my favorite games ever. I still play it every once in a while, in fact. But GW2? It's a huge disappointment, easily one of the most disappointing games ever, and the first reply said why: because it's not a sequel to Guild Wars, really, it's a WoW clone. Guild Wars is so much better (in my opinion) than WoW, it's not even close! Why in the world did they think that making GW into a WoW clone with a few GW touches here and there was actually a good idea? It isn't, at all. All they managed to do by doing that is drive away fans of the original game like me... and while it did attract new fans, there weren't nearly enough of them to compete with WoW's numbers.

Right from its announcement it was clear what GW2 was going to be, and it's really unfortunate that they stuck to it to the end, because I'd still really, really love to see a sequel to Guild Wars. It's such an amazing and addictive game, and while the original is still fantastic and one of the better-looking games of its time, it'd be great to see something new like it. But between its simplified skill system (where you can't fully customize your build anymore), its ditching of the instanced world with monsters you can kill 'permanently' (until you leave the zone) in favor of generic MMO respawning badguys, the de-emphasizing of multiplayer grouping throughout most of the non-PVP arena) game, that the game now has the appearance of infinite levels just to more satisfy grinding fans and takes longer to hit 'max', etc, etc... that is not the GW I love, and it's a real shame. It's the opposite (within the genre) in far too many ways, in fact.

.., Maybe I should go play some GW1 now. It's still the best online RPG I have ever played.



It's not the exact same game as WoW, sure, but it is a game in that style in a way that GW1 definitely is not. They got things mufch more right the first time.
I mean that's a rock and hard place provision one of the main if not the msin criticism of the first was that it was not an mom despite being compared against and competing with other mmo's and gw1 was very old by the time gw2 rolled about so I'm honestly not surprised the developed a wanted to the something different. Issue was they had no clear vision for the game (gw1 has no clear vision but with gw2 they seemed to have even less).
 

Vhalyar

Member
I only played at launch. The combat was an absolute pile of shit, the dungeons were farcical, and the story/storytelling laughably bad. To top it off it had not a shred of Guild War 1's charm.
 

Ivory Samoan

Gold Member
I blame ESO's popularity largely on the fact that Bethesda keeps stressing they're not working on another Elder Scrolls at the moment, and a lot of people interested in something other than Skyrim are being forced into trying it out.

I haven't read enough or seen enough about the game to convince me that it's similar enough to the mainline Elder Scrolls games to be enjoyable to me. Same reason I refuse to get back into SWTOR regardless of how good the story's supposed to be. The gameplay is horrible, and it's nothing like KOTOR.

I personally blame Skyrim's ongoing popularity directly for the TES VI seemingly delayed vibe, Skyrim just won't die (as much as I love it, it should have died ages ago).

ESO is made by ZOS, so there's no direct conflict there dev wise: if anything the news of an upcoming TES game would further buoy ESO into the stratosphere: and vice versa.

As someone who liked GW2 but loves ESO (with all the TES games played many times) I highly suggest you give it a shot, it's like 3 TES games rolled into one, it has tons of charm too, with a very big and friendly community.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
What's really disappointing is that Blade & Soul came out about 11 years ago and no one has learned from it. Best MMO combat I've ever had the pleasure of playing.




Whether you call it character action or not is irrelevant to the point being made. In Souls games any melee attack stops analog movement.
My point is souls and tera have literally nothing in conmon outside of this fact and both being "action games" souls games have an extremely limited move sets per build which works with the large build variety by weapons. This results in an extremely slow and calculated play style that is usual dodge heavy
Tera is far more fast paced and has long chain "combo's" (if you can call it that since they're so janky) you can unleash a long succession of distinct attacks. It has far more in common with character action game with none of the mechanics that make them fun to play. There's no dodge cancels, animation cancels, dodge offsets (or any offset at all last time I played), a good parry systems. None of that but they chain skills.

The way the game wants you to play and way the game is designed are at odds with each other.
 

Fishious

Member
I think all the people calling Guild Wars 2 a "WoW Clone" are actually looking for the word "themepark". Which means they share some basic design principles in common, namely a focus on a variety of "rides" (types of content), heavy combat focus, general accessibility, and shy away from long term punishment (ie xp loss on death/item loss). However the games have differing executions in the way they handle character progression, combat, skills, map design, game content, etc. In my opinion, WoW and GW2 are about as far apart as any two themeparks currently on the market are.

It's not the exact same game as WoW, sure, but it is a game in that style in a way that GW1 definitely is not. They got things much more right the first time.

So the difference is that it's an MMO. For however much semantics matter, I remember the original Guild Wars going out of its way to label itself a cooperative RPG or some such, rather than an MMO. Guild Wars 2 is explicitly an MMORPG. The respawning enemies has been a thing from Ultima Online to Everquest to WoW to Black Desert. Probably goes back to MUDs, but I'm less informed there. Despite what subgenre it falls into, pretty much all MMOs have respawning enemies. Partying doesn't really feel deemphasized. At least not more than Guild Wars did in the later years when they let you run 7 NPCs.

/end semantics wankery
 
I had over 7k hours in GW2 and I stopped playing a bit after HoT. Most of my guild stop playing after HoT. The expansion ruined the game and there was a downward trend beginning. The older talented people at Anet started to quit and the game just kind of went to shit.
 

WinFonda

Member
I actually really liked the combat in guild wars 2, and the pvp arenas

what I didn't like was the frontier-esque open world PvP that's really just a bunch of running around and trying to figure out where to be

i also don't think i liked the leveling up grind, or was needlessly slow if i recall

this was back during early days of the game so im sure it's a lot different now
 

Kalentan

Member
I had over 7k hours in GW2 and I stopped playing a bit after HoT. Most of my guild stop playing after HoT. The expansion ruined the game and there was a downward trend beginning. The older talented people at Anet started to quit and the game just kind of went to shit.

The games been upward ever since Season 3 began. The new zones are a delight and the story content has also been improved.

Like hell, they've added 5 zones, with no doubt a 6th one for the pen-ultimate update to Expansion 2.

The story stuff that happened in Episode 5 was crazy! Expansion-level stuff.
 

Trey

Member
I can see that people may feel combat is just "DPS things down" if they are playing strictly from a open world PVE sense. To be fair, older content used to be like this, but to say the game nowadays is like that doesn't come true. I feel like most of GAF wouldn't go to a point where they may change their opinion, but ultimately GW2 is not a game for everyone anyway.

I suppose the big question is not why GW2 is not as popular as it could be, but what is the point the mainstream MMO gamer will feel uncomfortable with it. To some, not being GW1 is the limit. To others, the lack of a trinity is it. Deep down GW2's biggest problem (and virtue) is that it's quite different from the other games in its genre, and that comes with good and bad things.

Well said. I need to get back into playing GW2. Lovely game.
 

samred

Member
lol I just tried to log in because of this thread, and when I went to reset the password, the web form asked for, and I shit you not, my original serial code AND the name of one of my characters.

are. you. fucking. kidding me. I haven't played this game in three years. I have no idea what stupid names I used for my toons, and also no idea where my serial code is.

so, there's one point of data for why the game isn't that popular, I guess...
 

Kalentan

Member
lol I just tried to log in because of this thread, and when I went to reset the password, the web form asked for, and I shit you not, my original serial code AND the name of one of my characters.

are. you. fucking. kidding me. I haven't played this game in three years. I have no idea what stupid names I used for my toons, and also no idea where my serial code is.

so, there's one point of data for why the game isn't that popular, I guess...

Just email their support.

Though honestly they should remove it. I understand why it was there when the game was B2P but now that it's F2P (at least the base content), it shouldn't require that anymore.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
I actually really liked the combat in guild wars 2, and the pvp arenas

what I didn't like was the frontier-esque open world PvP that's really just a bunch of running around and trying to figure out where to be

i also don't think i liked the leveling up grind, or was needlessly slow if i recall

this was back during early days of the game so im sure it's a lot different now
Wvw was the best part of the game it wasn't even close. The only mode where almost all the gameplay mechanics managed to come together. Had to be in a well organised server to truly appreciate it but tactics scouting and organisation were hugely important. A well coordinated group of 10 could easily beat back a less organised group of 50+ same stats no differences other than the tactical capability of the commander and how obedient and in synch the group's movement'a were. Add to this supply management and geniune slow persistent sieges and you have a mode were you actually feel like you direct an res as a soldier on the ground.
 

Maledict

Member
One of the thing that always interested me about GW2 is how it's found a home for the 'hardcore casual' players. People who are able to commit vast amounts of time to a game, but aren't fixated on world firsts, being the best etc. The GW2 players I still know play the game far more than the ultra hardcore raiders I used to play with.

I think that's one reason it doesn't get much talk here - GAF doesn't have a large audience for those type of players.
 
So the difference is that it's an MMO. For however much semantics matter, I remember the original Guild Wars going out of its way to label itself a cooperative RPG or some such, rather than an MMO. Guild Wars 2 is explicitly an MMORPG.
Yes, I think this is the core of the problem -- instead of making another game like Guild Wars, a "cooperative online RPG" as they called it, they made an MMORPG, with most of the genre tropes you expect from that genre. I don't particularly like MMOs (my scattered attempts at them end up in me quitting in boredom pretty quickly in a way I have never felt about GW1), so I think that was a bad decision.

The respawning enemies has been a thing from Ultima Online to Everquest to WoW to Black Desert. Probably goes back to MUDs, but I'm less informed there. Despite what subgenre it falls into, pretty much all MMOs have respawning enemies.
When you can kill enemies and they stay dead, it gives you a sense of accomplishment. Killing enemies, clearing zones, maybe dying a bunch but knowing that that tough group is dead for as long as you stay in the zone so now you can progress on and try the next part of the area and see how far you can get despite the death penalty piling up... those experiences are amazing, and something unique to Guild Wars within games like this! It's great game design.

And then GW2 ditched all that in favor of respawning enemies, making me think 'why am I even playing this when nothing I do matters two minutes later?" Blah.


Or for another issue I have with GW2, I strongly prefer Guild Wars' map, which reveals as you explore, over the GW2 map with its weird 'you can see whole areas at once once you reach them' design. Sure, you do have to explore in order to find all the points of interest within those areas, but it's not the same thing. I really like mapping in games, and GW1 does it right.

Partying doesn't really feel deemphasized. At least not more than Guild Wars did in the later years when they let you run 7 NPCs.
This is kind of true, but not entirely. Yes, in '07, with Nightfall, ANet added Heroes, which dramatically changed the game, kind of for the worse I have always thought. Heroes are directly controllable, and you can tell them to go to specific points. You also can fully control their skillsets, etc. You can't do any of that with the more basic AI companions that existed before, Henchmen. Now, Heroes are great because they allow a solo player to be competently able to take on missions and quests in a way rarely possible before. This is essential these days, as the GW1 player count is naturally going to be pretty low, particularly when it is spread out over so much territory! Heroes are very useful.

However, I have a lot of great memories of playing story missions and sidequests in random groups of players, mostly in those days from '04 to '07 before Heroes, because at that time player groups were the only reasonable way to be able to have a chance at winning, unless you were really good at the game and actually could win with only Henchmen. I really liked this aspect of the game; even someone like me, who has little interest in being in a large guild in an MMO, could play this online game cooperatively with others because of its design. After the introduction of Heroes though this side of the game gradually faded out.

But even so, that side of GW is still there. There are quests that are a lot harder to do alone than with Heroes, and the game has good built-in grouping tools, even if naturally after this many years you are probably unlikely to find anyone. In GW2, however, they abandoned grouping for a lot of the game. Where the main story in GW1 is meant as a group activity, in GW2 your personal story is a single-player-only endeavor. You can group outside of that for quests and the like, but it definitely feels like a more WoW-ish, solo-friendly-outside-of-raids-and-such design, and that's a big change from GW1. I admit that I've played many hundreds of hours less of GW2 than GW1, so I'm probably missing some things, but that is my impression anyway.

Now, I will admit that nailing the design to both allow good solo play, which is important, AND grouping must be incredibly difficult, but there's got to be a better solution than what GW2 does. This is far from the worst thing about GW2, that is probably its dumbed-down skill system, but it is a bit of a disappointment.

I mean that's a rock and hard place provision one of the main if not the msin criticism of the first was that it was not an mom despite being compared against and competing with other mmo's and gw1 was very old by the time gw2 rolled about so I'm honestly not surprised the developed a wanted to the something different. Issue was they had no clear vision for the game (gw1 has no clear vision but with gw2 they seemed to have even less).
Well, GW2 did release some years after the original, but it was announced several years before its release with its final design clearly in mind.
 

Purdy

Member
Boring, floaty combat.

Game reminds me nothing of gw1 either. Probably one of the largest disappointments ever.
 
I liked GW1, played about half or 2/3 of the campaign I think, and a little of a couple of expansions.

GW2 homogenized the characters from what I could tell. Plus the addition of active dodging / actions up the battle system a little.

I really prefer my RPGs older-school. Roles a little better defined. GW1 felt more like a co-op RPG than an MMO. Never really liked MMOs. GW1 was the quasi-exception.
 

WinFonda

Member
Wvw was the best part of the game it wasn't even close. The only mode where almost all the gameplay mechanics managed to come together. Had to be in a well organised server to truly appreciate it but tactics scouting and organisation were hugely important. A well coordinated group of 10 could easily beat back a less organised group of 50+ same stats no differences other than the tactical capability of the commander and how obedient and in synch the group's movement'a were. Add to this supply management and geniune slow persistent sieges and you have a mode were you actually feel like you direct an res as a soldier on the ground.

"tactical capability of the commander" and "obedience of the group" isn't exactly evoking positive, fun imagery in my head

simply put as a solo player i had a different experience

arena gave me fair (even numbered) fights and i liked the objectives; it felt like skill matchups.. similar to how I remembered GW1

the open world pvp felt like a waste of time by contrast; too bloated and meandering. you talk of a group taking out a larger group but you're still a group... as a solo player i think they encouraged you to do like fetch quests or something but it was really boring
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
"tactical capability of the commander" and "obedience of the group" isn't exactly evoking positive, fun imagery in my head

simply put as a solo player i had a different experience

arena gave me fair (even numbered) fights and i liked the objectives; it felt like skill matchups.. similar to how I remembered GW1

the open world pvp felt like a waste of time by contrast; too bloated and meandering. you talk of a group taking out a larger group but you're still a group... as a solo player i think they encouraged you to do like fetch quests or something but it was really boring
I mean in the mode is really not designed for pure solo players unless your gathering resources as your a liability and hindrance in group battles. I mean it's not every ones thing it's the main mode where pretty all the mechanics worked together to bring about those scenarios. The AoE heals and cleanses rather than targetted, the the downed and revivals system lack of bb etc all of it.
 
lol I just tried to log in because of this thread, and when I went to reset the password, the web form asked for, and I shit you not, my original serial code AND the name of one of my characters.

are. you. fucking. kidding me. I haven't played this game in three years. I have no idea what stupid names I used for my toons, and also no idea where my serial code is.

so, there's one point of data for why the game isn't that popular, I guess...

Exactly my situation. I don't have the original box anymore, so I'm out of luck getting access to my shit again.

Can't even go back to check if my memories are accurate or not. A totally idiotic way to manage accounts.
 
Active GW2 player here. The game clearly struggled immensely with a number of factors. Lack direction is the most obvious. ArenaNet clearly didn't know how they wanted to expand the game and they didn't know how they wanted progression to work. LWS1 was immensely slow to roll out and failed to bring in long lasting new content that builds on the game, with much of it being temporary and almost none of it being lasting new content.

The open world was by and large a complete pushover unless you were soloing champions bosses and dungeons themselves were a mess with no trinity. There was actually a big backlash against Heart of Thorns, and I was kind of a part of it, because it was such a huge step up in encounter difficulty and design and core Tyria does a shitty job teaching players how to play the game well.

HOT managed to bring real interesting progression to the mix, with elite specializations. Which are by and far the coolest thing the game has ever added through it's life. But they really needed to introduce at least two per class, or at least get the second set of them rolled out quickly. So for an entire expansion almost every class rolls it's elite specialization by default rather than picking from several of them. Still, I'm super excited for the next batch of them coming in the next expansion.

HOT managed to finally create satisfying PVE with raids and finally getting fractals into a fun state. They also added dedicated healing and tanking. Raids are straight up the best PVE content I've ever seen in a MMORPG. It just took them 4 years to do so.

But aside from the first three raids, ArenaNet were so unprepared to add new content after shipping the expansion that we had an eight month content drought. It's actually kind of insane the game is still alive after that in many regards. Like if ArenaNet had actually managed to start shipping LWS3 a month after the game the game would be in a much healthier state right now.

Another obvious problem with GW2 is that it is constantly trying to reinvent the wheel and fix things that aren't broken. It took raids for them to add dedicated healing and tanking in an environment where it matters and is built for it. While I like the combat, it's very off putting at first. Like I went into the game wanting to play the archetype I always gravitate towards; sword and shield warrior tank. But because of those weapons have very specific skills and do very specific things, that's not really a viable play style. Heck warriors really don't tank at all. They're DPS, direct or condition, that grant DPS buffs to their allies as they fight. Now, I do enjoy Greatsword and 1 hand sword+torch warrior, but it was pretty off putting at first. I think a lot of people are put off by this as well. It's unusual just how much your weapon type, which usually has a minor effect on stats but is mostly cosmetic or flavorful, completely controls what skills you have how you should build your character.

Another issue is quests and world design. Dynamic events are really darn cool and there are some super fun ones in game. But they were never a replacement for dedicated questing and it was bad idea trying to do so. If the game just had a minor quest system focused specifically on telling smaller stories, the world would feel so much richer. They've been trying to do with with current events, but the achievements system is not built for questing and they're clearly trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with it. So you have this massive world with all these neat little details but it all feels really flat. And with Waypoints the world does end up feeling small too.

Also I've always thought the name sucked and was uninspiring.

Despite all this, I think the game is worth playing. In fact, I think the game is in a healthier, more fun shape than it's ever been. Structured PVP League and the Tournaments are the most fun I've ever had with the game type. PVE is adding permanent content into the game at a regular pace. And great content with new stories and maps and rewards each update. We know that the expansion is in it's final stages of development and will be shipping soon with new, awesome looking Elite Specializations for all the classes, cool new features and some of the biggest maps we've ever seen in game. And between the Living World team firing on all cylinders and the team dedicated to the expansion, ArenaNet is finally structured in a way to release content, great content, quickly. I really think people should give HOT and whatever the next expansion is a shot.

Exactly my situation. I don't have the original box anymore, so I'm out of luck getting access to my shit again.

Can't even go back to check if my memories are accurate or not. A totally idiotic way to manage accounts.

Contact support. They should help you out pretty quickly.
 

Morokh

Member
One of the thing that always interested me about GW2 is how it's found a home for the 'casual hardcore' players. People who are able to commit vast amounts of time to a game, but aren't fixated on world firsts, being the best etc. The GW2 players I still know play the game far more than the ultra hardcore raiders I used to play with.

I think that's one reason it doesn't get much talk here - GAF doesn't have a large audience for those type of players.

That's seems to be true,and the very schizophrenic discussion that happens here every time the game is mentioned about too much like Wow / not enough like WoW is always fun to see xD

The game never really had content tailored for really hard-core gamers where world firsts and such can be a thing.
The closest thing I can think of that would fit would be the rather small dungeon speed-running community that existed before the expansion.
But on the other hand it is filled with possible long term goals (mostly in cosmetic form) that require a lot of time to get to if you don't directly grind them out and with some care it'seems very possible to work towards several of them at once at your own pace.

It was less true at launch but everything that changed over time put the game in an interesting place for people looking for something like a MMO-Lite.
 
I've done it in the past. I registered using my University email address, which I can no longer get into, so they told me they can't help. I have a shitload of other games to play anyway.

That sucks. Arenanet has this to say on the topic.

Generally, once you register the game, you won’t need your serial code again. You may, however, need the code at some point to prove your account ownership. If this happens and you can’t find your serial code, please include as much identifying information as possible (such as name, date of birth, and method of payment used) in a Support ticket and we’ll do our best to help you.
 

anothertech

Member
The combat is too shallow. Everyone is a self healing tank mage. Gets old quick.

Love the game, the open world events, the aesthetic. Incredible design. But the combat is just too shallow, and they basically dropped all the best parts of gw1.

What I would give for the Story, events and such implemented into s game like Black Desert or somthing.
 
I don't know why it's not more popular than it is, and I don't want to try selling it to anyone or defending it against its detractors, but at least among the people who do already like it, there's nothing else that can scratch the same itch.

I've played the game at every level, between casual and hardcore, and loved every moment of it. I've been in big guilds and small, and made tons of friends (including some of my now absolute closest), so I wouldn't change a thing.


Open-world PvE combat can get samey and dull sometimes, but it is frequently broken up with large segments of exploration and discovery. On the instanced side of things, dungeons, fractals, and raids have so many different skill levels that you can approach them from that a lot of the satisfaction you get out of them results from the effort you put into them. There are deeper gameplay systems and class interactions than almost anyone here seems able or willing to acknowledge, and I blame ArenaNet for that. Until the expansion content released, if you were willing to beat your head against something long enough, you would eventually get past it, and there was little to no need for any finesse. But now when you do get to the harder stuff, nothing in-game introduces you to the skills and techniques you need to succeed. If I hadn't had friends teaching me along the way, I never would have gotten as far as I have.

The control, support, and damage roles are all there as advertised, and everyone is expected to do a little bit of it all, which I personally love. You are given a great deal of personal responsibility for your own survival, and going down means putting your friends at great risk to save you, which often at the wrong time can snowball into complete failure. More than just strict "tank" roles (which do exist more so in some fights than others), raids and fractals have more frequently been adopting fixation mechanics where one player is temporarily marked as the focus of an enemy's attacks (randomly or by other mechanics) and is responsible for leading its movement until it swaps off to another player. Enemies will also frequently have devastating attacks that can be prevented with enough crowd control pressure, but no one person can be responsible for all of it; everyone must be ready to contribute. And almost every class is expected to be set up for support, buffing and/or healing the entire party in some way; in raids in particular, your self-heal is a good emergency save button on a few occasions, but it alone can not protect you from the amount of damage the enemies are putting out, often making multiple "healers" necessary to cover everyone. And no class will ever reach its maximum damage potential without the help of at least three other specific classes buffing it and getting it there. All of this happens actively while everyone is also expected to be doing as much damage as possible. You rarely, if ever, have one role; everyone does everything they can to help each other as much as possible. It's not a fun way to do things for everyone, and it doesn't have to be. But calling it flat out terrible is hyperbole. It's just different.


I also find the game to be quite attractive and don't understand the complaints about how it looks. But that's completely subjective as well. I love the variety of characters, environments, and animations.

aLoJsRI.jpg


Even within the same zone, there are a lot of sub-environments to see, and these don't touch on half of the ones you can find in this single map.


I do feel bad for people who picked warrior though, it's pretty much the simplest and most boring class in the game with very little skill required to do anything.

5,962 of my 6,480 hours played have been on Warrior. There's not another class in any RPG that I've ever had as much fun with. Different strokes for different folks.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yup, removing the Trinity purposefully was a terrible mistake.

You still have trinity though, it's just that they become more important in the higher content. And I understand that - it will suck if you're a healer and you have to venture the setting alone. The game allows you to keep various stats via gear and let's you switch skills and passives on the fly anyway, so it's fine.

It's like how it is in ESO. You can play any class but when you go to deeper content the trinity appears.

I only played at launch, but there were clearly still roles in place, you just didn't have a specific class/spec that was "Healer" or "Tank". I remember the class I was playing had 2 clear options, one that was obviously a tank spec and the other that was obviously a dps spec. The issue with having this "role-free" game was that you had to balance it around that and you couldn't have a class/spec doing too much damage or having too much self-sustain, and that leads to the game being pretty boring. On top of that, all the group events/dungeons I did were literally predicated on "don't stand in the markers". It was pretty annoying to be honest.

The game was pretty dishonest with a lot of things. It advertised itself as this super dynamic world, but it seemed like certain events were just on timers, and you could basically just camp and wait since they all happened pretty frequently. On top of that, they had this proposed quest system that sounded way better than it actually was. They said they were getting rid of menial tasks--no more "Go kill 10 Rats" quests. What happened instead was you would go to a farm and get a quest that said "Help Farmer Dipshit" and a meter would appear. Well how do you fill the meter? By killing 10 Rats.

I loved the style and exploration of GW2 though, and it's a shame it just wasn't fun when I played it.

Err what? Outside of very few quests that are specific with the goal (like the stealth quest), many of the heart meters can be fulfilled by doing multiple tasks rather than just "kill 10 rats". Talk about being dishonest lol

The combat is too shallow. Everyone is a self healing tank mage. Gets old quick.

Love the game, the open world events, the aesthetic. Incredible design. But the combat is just too shallow, and they basically dropped all the best parts of gw1.

What I would give for the Story, events and such implemented into s game like Black Desert or somthing.

Funny you mention that, elementalist is like the most nerfed class next to warrior.
 
PvP was initially quite fun.
The problem is that it let you use any ability off the bat, so when you go to play the PvE you just feel gimped.

Not sure if they changed that, but there was no real progression and iirc no pvp in the main zones that werent the specific PvP map.
 

AXE

Member
For someone who plays online stuff to play with other people the combat felt utterly... lonely.

If the game would've had the Holy Trinity of Tank, Heal and DPS, I think I might still play it. FFXIVARR has since arrived to scratch that particular itch of mine.

I liked GW2 quite a bit. The world, questing and the races felt much more fun. Despite of Soule, the soundtrack however falls utterly flat when compared to FFXIVARR.
 
I played the game at launch as a Mesmer and had a good time. Did not like the dungeons in the game though and the story was a major letdown. Also the hearts that replace the usual MMO quests are pretty bad.

So yeah probably a lot has changed in all those years but I have absolutely no urge to return to the game.
 
It's like how it is in ESO. You can play any class but when you go to deeper content the trinity appears.

Well most of them that I experienced were filled by either killing rats, or some variation of right clicking on glowing objects. It was basically "Help Farmer Dipshit" and you could "help" him by killing rats or watering his plants. Neither of which was exactly exciting or fun, and often you had no idea how many of either you would have to do so it was just mindlessly doing menial tasks or killing mobs--exactly what the system is designed to avoid.
 

Greddleok

Member
It just wasn't fun.

I didn't enjoy the story. The gameplay wasn't interesting. I didn't like the dungeons, and disliked the idea of "anyone can be any role" rather than the trinity.

Just didn't mesh with me at all.
 

Puru

Member
Found the combat boring mostly because there was no encounters that really tried to challenge you so i stopped ultimately. The raid looked far better but it just doesn't feel worth it to come back just for those.
Also doesn't help that the super adventure box was actually the most fun i had with the game and some friends told me they wouldn't update it, removing all will to reinstall once and for all.
 
Add me to the list of peeps not quite seeing the WoW-clone connection some people are making. Then again I don't know how many MMOs people have played so if they've only played a rare few then maybe for some WoW is just the closest comparison they have?

This is a fallacy. You don't commit less to an attack just because your character is not rooted. A combat animation plays out at its same pace regardless if the character is rooted or not. This has nothing to do with committing to a command after input.

You can dodge projectiles in Guild Wars too. That's not what I mean- I mean aiming like in a first person shooter. You made it sound like TERA has aiming like a FPS. Neither TERA or Guild Wars are dictated by twitch eye coordination. I don't think your example is an example of clever hitbox. you got skills upgrades that give various different damage parameters depending on angle and positioning of attack.
Further more, invincibility frames are exclusively used for dodges if I am not mistaken.

Look, you summed up and declared that the game was brain dead, citing an ambiguous example of a theoretical experiment you made at a theoretical level with a theoretical build. It just reeks of reductionist shitposting to sum up the entirety of your experience as proof. Like seriously? It's a defeatist and shitty way to conjour up repour how you feel about the game.

I don't have a problem with anybody not liking the game. I'm sympathetic with a lot of the posters here, but it's not to much to ask you to clarify specifically. Nobody is trying to hard for asking you to clarify and owning up to what you're saying.

Actually, animation locking DOES mean you're more committed, because you're stuck in the attack, restricted in your movement by it. I can't just slap someone with any of my attacks while circle strafing because most of them won't let me circle-strafe, so I have to either use the ones that take me around my opponent or commit to not circlestrafing to do something more desirable.

No, Tera isn't FPS aiming, but you can freely fire your spells and attack off in whatever way you please without requiring a target and yet still hit someone who wanders into them after you've already set it off. GW2 used to (no idea if expansions changed this) have a fair few attacks that couldn't be fired off meaningfully (or at all) without a target. Plus you used to be able to quite easily just fire off an ability and end up turning to shoot at someone you didn't even know was there (aka how I sometimes dealt with heavily populated World events sometimes :p ) while in Tera you just shoot in the direction you're facing, always.

You don't come across as someone merely being dubious about my claims (something that would be easily communicated with the likes of "that doesn't match up to my experiences, could you go into more detail?") but instead your responses have been spiked with lots of little aggressive terms like calling me a shitposter and you basically just started from a point of bad faith assuming I apparently hate the game for the sake of hating it, at least based off the tone of your language. If that's not how you intended to come across, then sorry but you failed.
I appreciate that I have a habit of being somewhat colourful in my descriptions, edging on the hyperbolic sometimes for the sake of humour so I don't blame you if are defensive, but do be clear on this: I'm not in the habit of making shallow assessments of games.
I mentioend this before but to clarify: I fully accept that the expansions and maybe the upper tiers of content fixed some of my issues but as I only played the original game as released at the time of it's launch and I have little interest in most MMO's endgame content, preferring to enjoy the middle content more, I can only speak for the parts I did and would have played given what was available at the time :p

You know what is alsk actually extremely important to 3d action games? Animation cancelling. Tera is no dark souls it takes far more influence from traditional actions games like dmc where animation cancelling is a thing. There's a reason why comboss in Tera barely feel fluid. Compare and contrast with Vindictus which so much more responsive and fluid it's not even funny.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on Tera's fluidity as it felt fine to me. Tera does have animation cancelling though: most of the efficient combos are based on it :eek:
For example my priestess would often cycle through certain attack chains because it would remove either the wind-up or recovery animations on the attacks :3 It's been a while but I think you had to spacebar into them to get the cancelling though.
The thing is, animation cancelling usually still has a fair few restrictions. GW2 doesn't need animation cancelling because it has no animation lock/commitment :p

It'll certainly be no Bayonetta or DMC, but the idea that "If it's not on cooldown, use it" seems a tad silly about GW2's combat because more challenging content will punish you for not doing the proper actions at the appropriate time.
It's possibly I perhaps somehow just didn't come across the more challenging content. I did mostly stick to the middling parts and didn't get to the endgame stuff. Then again, one of the games I mentioned for combat, Tera, has completely messed up it's difficulty over successive updates to the point where most open world combat now feels like it can be done by a half-asleep toddler, with what little challenge there used to be scuttling off to hide in the dungeons and increasingly higher-end content, so it wouldn't surprise me :/

I'm sorry, but this really incites a "WTF AM I READING?" reaction from me.

Every single decent character action game will have movement lock built into each animation. Some moves will have more movement than others - that's part of your consideration when you're figuring out which moves to use. Every single bloody game with decent combat will do this because you can't divorce the movement of your legs from the rest of your body, you NEED to use your legs to reinforce your movement in order to put the full weight of your body into attacks. Every game that fails to account for this ends up feeling floaty and gamey in the absolute worst ways.

It might feel nicer to you to play a video game that way, but it is NOT better game design. Not by a long shot.
Agreed. It's also why you'll likely see some people complain that the combat lacks a sense of 'weight' because swinging two-handed swords or the like around doesn't impede your movement in it and if your character doesn't have to move their body in a way to compensate for the force and heft of a swing then it won't communicate any sense of power to most people :3

All these talks about no trinity and button mashing and I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong. Despite knowing the relatively complicated rotation for the my main engineer, I still get my ass handed back to me often. Raids and higher fractals are also a bit scary because classes are pigeonholed into specific roles. I figure the fact that I kind of suck in the game means that there must be some skills and mechanics involved.
To be fair, fractals didn't even exist when I played and I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the case for a few peeps who posted similar impressions so they may have amped up the difficulty since then. I have heard that the engineer did get nerfed a fair bit from my OP bomberman-build days :p

My point is souls and tera have literally nothing in conmon outside of this fact and both being "action games" souls games have an extremely limited move sets per build which works with the large build variety by weapons. This results in an extremely slow and calculated play style that is usual dodge heavy
Tera is far more fast paced and has long chain "combo's" (if you can call it that since they're so janky) you can unleash a long succession of distinct attacks. It has far more in common with character action game with none of the mechanics that make them fun to play. There's no dodge cancels, animation cancels, dodge offsets (or any offset at all last time I played), a good parry systems. None of that but they chain skills.

The way the game wants you to play and way the game is designed are at odds with each other.
Well, the chain skills are a form of animation cancelling, often cutting off the recovery or wind-up of several of the chained skills (depending on which you chain to which).
I wouldn't dream of using the priest's final reprisal attack without chaining into it, thanks to it's crazy long wind-up when used stand-alone :3
 
Different perspective from someone who has never played it.

When I first heard about the series it sounded great PvP wise. I was playing WoW at the time which was in its prime. Later on, there was that sweet as Warhammer MMO which I wanted to grab but that too looked better than Guild Wars (+ WoW).

Later there was a The Old Republic and WoW was still pumping along and FFXIV is still a pretty decent game and one that I'm currently subscribed to on PS4 (+previously PC).

At no point did Guild Wars' lore or aesthetic want me to pick up the game or trial it. Every other game I've listed here has a great lore, clear aesthetic and world on which to build a good story from and which is beautiful to look at (also, WoW's style is still pretty cool aesthetically given it is a little dated technically).

Guild Wars doesn't really have much going for it IMO and the screenshots make the world look generic as hell compared to its competition especially.
 

Perona

Member
Well most of them that I experienced were filled by either killing rats, or some variation of right clicking on glowing objects. It was basically "Help Farmer Dipshit" and you could "help" him by killing rats or watering his plants. Neither of which was exactly exciting or fun, and often you had no idea how many of either you would have to do so it was just mindlessly doing menial tasks or killing mobs--exactly what the system is designed to avoid.

The point wasn't to avoid those kinds of quests, it was to streamline them so that you don't have "talk to npc -> go kill 10 rats -> talk to npc again for rewards" for every quest in a zone. The endgame areas and areas in the expansion actually do away with the heart quests altogether (though they come back in LW season 3 in a different way) in favor of big ongoing map-wide events.
 

Wulfram

Member
I also find the game to be quite attractive and don't understand the complaints about how it looks. But that's completely subjective as well. I love the variety of characters, environments, and animations.

All the human women's faces look like they're 14, that was one thing that bothered me.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
I haven't played since maybe 2 or 3 years ago, so maybe the game changed a lot since then, but I liked my first experience with the game. Lvling up and exploring every zones was cool.
But once that was done, I didn't have any fun. Endgame & combat is far from being the best part of this game unfortunately.
 
I'm sorry, but this really incites a "WTF AM I READING?" reaction from me.

Every single decent character action game will have movement lock built into each animation. Some moves will have more movement than others - that's part of your consideration when you're figuring out which moves to use. Every single bloody game with decent combat will do this because you can't divorce the movement of your legs from the rest of your body, you NEED to use your legs to reinforce your movement in order to put the full weight of your body into attacks. Every game that fails to account for this ends up feeling floaty and gamey in the absolute worst ways.

It might feel nicer to you to play a video game that way, but it is NOT better game design. Not by a long shot.

Makes me wonder if you ever played a Souls game, and if so, how far you managed to get. Must have been utterly infuriating to you.

Totally disagree. You should try Jedi Knight, Mount and Blade, Black Desert.
As I explained before, these games are based around a interplay between ranged and melee. Kiting is a core part of the game. What the fuck does Souls has to do with that?




Actually, animation locking DOES mean you're more committed, because you're stuck in the attack, restricted in your movement by it. I can't just slap someone with any of my attacks while circle strafing because most of them won't let me circle-strafe, so I have to either use the ones that take me around my opponent or commit to not circlestrafing to do something more desirable.

You keep moving the goalposts. Previously you said that animation rooting was due "being able to attack faster by not having locking.

I don't buy your argument at all. The idea that you're more committed because a supposed movement skill allows you to navigate past the character seems reductionist to me.
You're arguing in relative terms here. I might as well argue that it takes more skill to run after an opponent as I input my attacks, using my skills on multiple levels, instead of just having to worry about my own and my attackers fixed positioning as a baseline.

As I said before- Most MMORPG works within a interplay of melee and ranged attackers, and in that space ranged attackers have usually lower defense compared to melee who has more defense. The interjection between them is that melee has to catch up to ranged attackers.

Secondly, with the latency in the netcode for every MMO I can think of, applications used in fighting games with much lower latency is not applicable in MMOs.
When you're fighting someone in a MMO, it's not normal to have a 1-2 second of latency, which is a huge deal. That is one of the core reason why most games- Even more traditional ones like FFXIV and SWTOR, as traditional as their combat are, has pretty seamless upper body animation in corrospondence with the movement of their legs.
You can chase someone, even with latency delay, and you're allowed a longer range to give up points for this latency.

TERAs combat in PvP partciular was not fun for me at all due to this rooting.





You don't come across as someone merely being dubious about my claims (something that would be easily communicated with the likes of "that doesn't match up to my experiences, could you go into more detail?") but instead your responses have been spiked with lots of little aggressive terms like calling me a shitposter and you basically just started from a point of bad faith assuming I apparently hate the game for the sake of hating it, at least based off the tone of your language. If that's not how you intended to come across, then sorry but you failed.
I appreciate that I have a habit of being somewhat colourful in my descriptions, edging on the hyperbolic sometimes for the sake of humour so I don't blame you if are defensive, but do be clear on this: I'm not in the habit of making shallow assessments of games.
I mentioend this before but to clarify: I fully accept that the expansions and maybe the upper tiers of content fixed some of my issues but as I only played the original game as released at the time of it's launch and I have little interest in most MMO's endgame content, preferring to enjoy the middle content more, I can only speak for the parts I did and would have played given what was available at the time :p

I'm not calling you a shitposter. I said that you made a unsubstantiated claim that you rang home in a way that made that post feel like a shitpost.
Secondly, you backtrack and move the goal posts because you don't want to engage or own up to what you say. You keep deviating and refusing to engage.

You say you don't make shallow assessments of games, but you rang up experiment, you're being incredible vague on, refusing to give details on, and summing it up with a braindead claim.

I asked you to clarify and specify. What level, area and build did you use that made you think the game was so broken it was brain dead as you said?
Lastly, going into a game in a mid level and owning some mobs, and then declaring the game to be broken seems like someone who just has an out for that game. I don't understand why you won't explain what it was you did that made you reach that conclusion. I've played the game for 3000 hours, and it knee jerks me to see lies like this being posted.

You might have played the game, but it doesn't sound like you gave it a chance, or you went into it hating it. I can conjour up a build that owns mobs above my own level in other games, but I don't think I'd sum up my experience in those games as that the game is broken and braindead.
My problem is not that you had your experience. My problem is that it feels like a shitty thing to do to ring up your opinion in that matter that you did.

And I don't think I am being unreasonable here. Yes, you do have a tendency to be hyperbolic and it's good you realize that.
 

~Cross~

Member
Combat was very floaty. A combination of the attacks animations, sound and lack of feedback from the enemies made it feel worse than a lot of other MMOs. Contrast to WoW, an old as fuck MMO, which still feels good because of how smooth the animations were and how on point the sound effects were when you landed a crit or something like that. FFXIV is the same, very good sound direction leads to the feeling that you are actually hitting something.

The story was a mess. At launch it was all about tree jesus hogging your glory and it was unfulfilling as all fuck. The personal stories were all pretty bland as well. It didnt help that the next year of story content was about a mary sue plant villain who kept showing up.

Content releases were anemic. For a games as a service model to work, you need to have constant updates. They tried and failed during the first year of the game. The content was very sparse, people joking that the first big story content added was having to lay down yard signs.

Dressup game is gimped. Fashion is the true endgame for any MMO, and GW2s fashion game is extremely weak. At launch it wasn't really bad, with everything being in game. But as time went on the slow trickle of content didnt bring new outfits, instead them being relegated to the cash shop only. It saps the will of people trying to play the game without having to bother with the cash shop.
 
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