You can own a gun and push for stricter gun regulation at the same time, you know.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Gun store owners 'seeing up to four times as many black and minority customers'
- Thread starter Protein
- Start date
- Status
You can own a gun and push for stricter gun regulation at the same time, you know.
kame-sennin
Member
Yes, reducing the amount of guns in society would in theory be a benefit to everyone. But people of color do not, and have never, had the benefit of living according to theoretical ideals. We have been forced to live in reality. Every time one of us has failed to do this, we are shocked back to reality by hatred and brutal violence.
Here in the real world, we've got racists shooting kids for bumping into them on the street, white nationalists in the White House, and police shooting any nigger that breathes. We don't have time for this peaceful shit.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I know right? I'm not sure what it reminds me of. MGS or Star Wars. Not sure.
Frozenprince
Banned
Nonsense obviously we're all cackling evil in our secret underground volcano base.
Yep. They'll dress it up nice too, labeling it as going after criminals, terrorists, troubled communities...
What a hollow victory it would be. I am one of the people who sees a gun ban as the ultimate accomplishment and worthy goal of a morally good society but it coming from the fascist authoritarian... such a cruel twist of fate that would be.
I could never own a gun myself unless the worst comes. The day I pick up a gun it would be used as a tool of aggression, not for self defense. I can't let myself make that choice unless I'm prepared to take other's lives.
Frozenprince
Banned
Literally today this happened.
This ain't a hypothetical, this is something that happened, today.
I don't know, the DNC is shit right now and everyone is shelling up into "fuck everyone else, i'm protecting myself" mode. Fear and emotions are high, there is no discussion to be had anywhere anymore. Do what you got to do.
Frozenprince
Banned
"White nationalism hasn't gone away" WELL GEE HOWDY NOBODY I KNOW KNEW THAT.
WOW. WHAT A REVELATION.
WOW. WHAT A REVELATION.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Star Wars. Han Solo's side arm with a flashlight attached.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
You don't know how the NRA works. The NRA is a membership. Buying a gun doesn't necessarily mean opting into NRA membership. My dad has guns and isn't a part of the NRA. Also, it's pretty hard to not know what the NRA is if someone doesn't live under a rock. Most people of color have an idea of that organizations history. We will not join the NRA just because we buy guns. NRA might send me a letter, but I'll scrap it every single time.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Been discussing it for 5+ pages man. It's kinda shitty to dismiss that conversation and try to boil it entirely down to "Fuck everyone else". No one is saying that. No one. At all.
People -are- deciding to arm themselves given the current environment. Which I understand as the way they feel now is the way I've felt since I was 5.
Once again, please go read the links and books provided in this thread by myself and others.
kame-sennin
Member
'Stopping power' is a myth. Get the 9.
http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/guns/case-closed-fbi-says-9mm-is-the-best-pistol-round/
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I know the history, I've read, watched and studied intently, and have been very active in fighting against many injustices to the best of my ability. The issue of guns in America, of gun lobbyist, of corrupt politicians in their pockets, is not excluded from that fight.
White nationalism in 2016 is a far different beast, is nowhere near as "normalized" and if you really think there's not a massive difference between then and now, and what can is to be expected, then I really don't know to tell you, other than gun culture, and the people profiting off of it, with no intention of trying to make things better, is a blight on our country.
Yeah, let me know how well that's working out.
Quality post right here.
Chie Satonaka
Member
This is legitimately the most fucking infuriating thing about the results of this election. It was already bad before we got here, but now that it's happened, these types are all over the fucking place and it's getting really tired.
Frozenprince
Banned
Oh please. It ain't no different beast. People still hurl out slurs. People still get killed for the color of their skin.
Ain't shit different. People who are different are still persecuted and oppressed, that's fact. If you knew the history you wouldn't be speaking as you are now and as dismissive as you are now.
Allies only to a point are not allies at all.
You've responded to everybody with nothing but moralizing. So save it.
I don't own a gun and am for stricter regulation and that doesn't seem to be working either. Maybe it's actually a bit more nuanced/complicated than you make it out to be.
Says the guy that has posted nothing but dismissals and snide accusations of NRA shilling :lol
Edit: By the way, you still haven't answered my question.
Yup. It's 100% about shot placement.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I thank you for your service. But don't castigate me for the way in which I chose to protect myself, my wife, and my child given
Second, you act like 60 years is so long ago. It's a blink in the eye of history. There's always this notion that "It can't happen again" which history has proven wrong so many fucking times I'm honestly shocked people still fall for it.....
I have said it time and time again but maybe given the situation someone will actually read it and get what I'm saying this time: I will gladly give up my guns with a smile and watch they get melted when you take guns away from the White supremacist, the criminal, the racist police, the military on US soil, and all the other people that would do me and mine harm. Until then? Nope.
I will store my stuff safely but don't wag a finger in my face.
Frozenprince
Banned
Funny how we've been told that "it's complicated, there's nuance too it" non-stop since the election and yet that apparently only applies to our anger.
Funny.
Mr. Pointy
Member
This is a post-Trump future. I don't blame black folk and minorities from arming up.
How is the old Mauser broomhandle anyway?
How is the old Mauser broomhandle anyway?
AbsolutBro
Member
Well, almost 100%. The other ~1% is ammo type. Jacketed hollow point will cause more system shock and drop a person faster than a regular solid round.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
That's difficult to say for a number of reasons. Does your state or locality require that you attempt to retreat or flee if you feel threatened, or allow you to stand your ground? Can you reasonably prove that you felt your life was threatened if that person leaves and the calls the police and tells them you pulled a gun on them?
Here's how I think of it:
Don't reach for a gun unless you think you're going to have to kill someone.
Don't touch a gun unless you're certain you're going to have to kill someone.
Don't draw your gun unless you're attempting to kill someone.
Aiming your gun at someone is an act of killing.
Pulling the trigger means you've killed them.
Guns are designed to kill, that is there purpose, and law enforcement is going to need to see that that use was justified. So if it doesn't seem like a life or death situation you don't have a reason to draw a gun. If you draw a gun the police are probably going to be called, but if you fire it they're going to be for sure. They're going to scrutinize whatever evidence they find, and that includes verbal recountings from anyone involved or who witnessed what happened. If they don't think that it was a life or death situation, and think that you needlessly escalated it into one by involving a gun, you're going to be in deep shit.
In the unlikely situation that you're being mugged by a random person on the street you're probably best off showing them you have a gun without drawing it. For instance, if it's in your waistband, pulling up your shirt so that they can see it. That way you're not brandishing it, which may or may not be a crime (it's most likely a crime.)
Even that's not optimal though. No one should ever know you're armed. You should never be aggressive with a gun, if the worst happens, like the previously mentioned hypothetical mugger brandishes a knife at you, just pull out your gun and shoot them. Don't give someone who's threatening you any extra opportunity to harm you.
So, you mentioned "verbal assault," which I'm assuming means someone shouting at you "I'm going to kill you." If you believe they intend to kill you don't hesitate, shoot them. If you think it's a bluff or an empty threat, try to leave or deescalate the situation.
Also, since it may not be immediately clear, take note that what the the people who responded to you before me said basically amounted to "don't do that." Their answers are the right answer. Don't do it. Only involve a gun if you absolutely have to, there will be repercussions if you don't actually need to.
People in here are talking about minority gun owners just reacting off emotion. You're being that guy right now. Dont do that. Coming in here invoking Sandy Hook. Gtfo.
You want some background checks? Sure, I do too. What in the motherfuck would that have done to prevent what happened at Sandy Hook? Not a God damn thing. Advocating for anything far beyond that will.lose an election before the campaign even starts. If liberals give half a shit about winning and enacting any sort of progressive legislation at a national level, they'll distance themselves from emotional, nonsensical rhetoric that's been oozing through each contribution you've made to this thread.
You're not fighting a losing battle. You're fighting a LOST battle. Continue using that obstinance to dig this hole even deeper.
That's true, yea. Most defense rounds are JHP and cause significant hydrostatic shock.
No. Unless you are being physically threatened, this is generally considered brandishing and will get you in trouble. If you back away and tell them to leave you alone and they persist, you can generally draw to dissuade them.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
You're looking for the Walther PPK.
I advise against revolvers.
I think I may go with this.
I just watched this with my bf. He was impressed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln52TLyvv_A
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Oh, so we're really doing this? The country hasn't progressed since those days, huh? Not even a little bit?
...and because I'm the type of person that vehemently feels guns are not the answer, and are in fact a huge fucking problem, I'm suddenly the enemy here? That's an interesting take. But how about a different take, as in you seem to suggest you're interested in reform(unless I'm mistaken here), so what have you done to ally yourself with the thousands of people that have been impacted by gun-related violence, EVERY YEAR, does their voice not matter because of your love of guns? Do you speak out against the gun lobby and their puppet politicians, if so, how often, how forcefully? Do you donate to those that fight against their power and influence? What are YOU doing for others who need allies, and can't get a win, and who desperately need it?
Sig P938 is another good option if you're looking for subcompact.
Also, FYI many many many many many guns have wood grips available to buy. Most of the time it's as simple as unscrewing the grips and replacing them.
Makarov's a kind of dumb suggestion but if you like old school pistols, there's plenty to be had for sub $250. Just have fun with the cosmoline
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Messofanego
Banned
Yup, that's totally understandable. I don't see anything about those kind of people disarming themselves, so why should minorities be the ones the first to do so? With the rise of hate crimes, gotta defend yourself against emboldened bigots.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Depends on how you define progress. My definition? The extent to which a people can flourish within the social economic construct, provide for their family, educate their children and be financially secure and empowered to invest in their communities? Shit one could argue it's worse...
There are 4857273929395727 gun violence threads for that. That's not the discussion we are having in this thread. Stop moralizing and grandstanding. Also it's shitty how you're trying to portray the reason for someone to get a gun as doing so because of their love of guns.
Allies to a point indeed.....
Cindi Mayweather
Member
This guy says the Sig Sauer P238 has a .45 model? Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W4AVpxvGgg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W4AVpxvGgg
Messofanego
Banned
DontBeThatGuy
You're digging yourself a deep hole dude.
What do minorities do when they are being gunned down? Please tell us of your grand solution that will fix all their problems.
Frozenprince
Banned
Get the 380.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I invoked Sandy Hook because of what you essentially suggested, dropping gun reform, stopping the fight, letting lobbyists and politicians run wild, is spitting in the fucking face of people who've had to deal with gun violence in this country, and are looking for anything to change for the better, not for things to become more comfortable, more lax, and to not be handwaved away as "emotional, nonsensical rhetoric" by gun advocates who only actually care about their wants, and their needs, not for the betterment of the country. it tells me you give zero fucks about something being done.
It really does make me wonder just how many people voted for Trump primarily because of guns, and just how sad a statement that actually is.
No. 9mm should be your goal, especially if this is your first weapon.
.380 isn't a bad idea either.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I suspect he'll say black people should extend an olive branch and empathise/try to see it from the shooter's perspective.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Man, you really gotta love the shitposting.
Why would you ever suspect that, exactly? also, what are even talking about here, white nationalists coming out of the darkness in lieu of Trump, murdering minorities because they feel empowered? or when dealing with trigger happy police? Let me know which one more likely to happen, and how a gun solves that problem. Get specific with it.
Ironic.
Frozenprince
Banned
I had a vegan equate his veganism to racial injustice today.
Nothing phases me at this point
Mammoth Jones
Member
As you invoke Sands Hook in a thread about minorities purchasing firearms due to a uptick in hate crimes as well as a resurgence of White supremacy.......the irony.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I'm really liking that Sig Sauer 238. I've made my choice. It comes in 9mm and .380? Mind telling the difference? I know a bit about guns but not enough about ammo type.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
So something like the Sig P238 isn't too small? I do have small hands...
Cow Mengde
Banned
More black people owning guns.
9mm is longer.
9x19mm (diameter by length) is 9mm
9x17mm is .380 auto.
If this is going to be a carry weapon, .380 allows for a more compact weapon at the cost of muzzle energy (much lighter bullet, ~90 gr vs average of about 110gr for 9mm).
.380 has the benefit of lighter recoil though. It would do just fine in most situations.
Many subcompacts have optional larger capacity magazines that come with a rubber block to extend the grip in case your hands are too large. I have pretty normal man hands and I can hold subcompacts OK with the extended mag.
If you're still looking for other options the M&P Shield is another good carry weapon.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
DontBeThatGuy
Member
the debate became about more than minorities buying guns, it's always gonna be bigger than that, because of the reality of the gun situation on a national level, and Sandy Hook came on the heels of a poster essentially telling liberals to drop gun reform, but I guess that was... a relevant comment to make about the initial topic at hand?
Do you plan on carrying or having this locked at home for defense situations? Sorry if I missed earlier posts where you clarified this.
If you're carrying, mag capacity is going to be pretty anemic regardless of what you end up with (unless you decide on compact or full size vs. subcompact).
If you're planning on using this for home def, full size 9mm handguns have capacities up and beyond 17+1.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Good. This is exactly what is needed.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
- Locked