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Gun store owners 'seeing up to four times as many black and minority customers'

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This gun may be the most beautiful gun.

Satch gotta check this beauty out. Some images from google.

sig-sauer-p238-psp-purple-1.jpg


QPS1HFI.jpg


x8fpd2B.jpg
 

wildfire

Banned
Absolutely not. Drawing implies immediate lethal danger to yourself or another individual. If you draw your weapon, you are firing to kill someone. You never brandish a weapon without intending to kill someone. Ever. You needlessly escalate a situation.

While that's the ideal you wish everybody lived by, bluffing is a strategy that overrules your idealism.

Huh? I missed the part of my post where I suggested that people should shoot cops... I was responding to those suggesting that black people owning guns was just going to result in black people getting shot, as if that's not happening. Guns, in this argument, are mostly being suggested as a means of self-defense against the potential of emboldened, crazy ass racists taking matters into their own hands.



Sure you are suggestion is all about self defense but in your list of things to defend from cops were one of them. That's a low benefit insanely high risk decision. People would be better off demonstrating in front of the National Guard while brandishing weapons.
 
Do you plan on carrying or having this locked at home for defense situations? Sorry if I missed earlier posts where you clarified this.

If you're carrying, mag capacity is going to be pretty anemic regardless of what you end up with (unless you decide on compact or full size vs. subcompact).

If you're planning on using this for home def, full size 9mm handguns have capacities up and beyond 17+1.

I'm thinking about getting CCW license but I'm weighing my options or whether or not concealed carry is safe or not. I'm not sure what to do on that part.
 
I think it's an important question to ask is whether or not we have progressed from previous decades with respect to racism, are we in agreement that people in the 1960s were arguing that racism was weaker than it was in previous decades?

That is what people mean when they talk about normalcy, the notion that something like what happened in the past cannot happen again. It can happen, and indeed, one of the best ways to enable it is to downplay its threat.
 

Akronis

Member
While that's the ideal you wish everybody lived by, bluffing is a strategy that overrules your idealism.

From a legal standpoint, you're going to have a difficult time. If we had people who carry needlessly pull their guns for "bluffing", there'd be far more fatalities. Also an easy way to get your CCW revoked for brandishing a firearm.

I'm thinking about getting CCW license but I'm weighing my options or whether or not concealed carry is safe or not. I'm not sure what to do on that part.

Depends on where you live. If you're in a rougher neighbor, it's definitely something to consider. Keep in mind there is mandatory classes you need to take and you'll need a carry holster.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
It really does make me wonder just how many people voted for Trump primarily because of guns, and just how sad a statement that actually is.

A shit load of people vote red for that reason. I don't have much sympathy for grown men whining about their hobbies but, you know what? They exist and they vote like a mother fucker. Regardless of how sad we think that is, we don't have much choice but to live with the reality that sweeping gun legislation is a conversation stopper for a significant portion of the population. Once you come down off the emotional high you're riding on, you might realize how the invocation of a tragedy that, honestly, no reasonably passable gun legislation could have prevented does more harm than good for your argument.

We live in a country where there are already more guns out in the public than there are people. That's our reality. It's a reality that most people in this thread have said they don't prefer but, while we're in this reality, they feel they may as well exercise the rights that white people exercise given the myriad reasons for them to feel threatened.

Surely you can understand how the whole "we've made progress since the 60's, white nationalism has always been a thing, just wait until we get the right politicians in there" arguments aren't exactly compelling to a portion of our population who have been sold on incremental change since forever. We just elected a man who openly courted white nationalism to a degree that you'd have to hop in a time machine and rewind 50 years to see. A president who framed himself as the "Law & Order" candidate, who openly encourages violence against peaceful dissent and wants to shut out critical voices in the media. A president who has nominated a man with, not one, but two names inspired by prominent confederate figures (and he's done everything he could to make his namesakes proud) for the role of Attorney General. I could go on but, the point is, people aren't being paranoid. They're just observing reality and it's shitty to try and dissuade them from finding solace in exercising a right that a good portion of Americans are already exercising. A right that is not going anywhere any time soon.
 

Satch

Banned
This gun may be the most beautiful gun.

Satch gotta check this beauty out. Some images from google.

http://www.omahaoutdoors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/sig-sauer-p238-psp-purple-1.jpg[img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/QPS1HFI.jpg[img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/x8fpd2B.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

i loooooove that white and gold one but its so gaudy

guns are so strange. its really hard for me to talk about them in this way while knowing what theyre used for. ive hated them all my life and it just feels weird to have this urge to buy one now because of recent events
 
i loooooove that white and gold one but its so gaudy

guns are so strange. its really hard for me to talk about them in this way while knowing what theyre used for. ive hated them all my life and it just feels weird to have this urge to buy one now because of recent events

I know what you mean but we gotta do what we gotta do girl. I love the white and gold too!
 

wildfire

Banned
From a legal standpoint, you're going to have a difficult time. If we had people who carry needlessly pull their guns for "bluffing", there'd be far more fatalities. Also an easy way to get your CCW revoked for brandishing a firearm.
.

Sure from a legal standpoint that's the case but we are talking about being in the heat of the moment. No one is going to care about the legal repercussions at that time. Anyone who could is most likely going to be a witness and that's it.
 
This is the first time I’m honestly considering purchasing a firearm. I’m experienced with them, but I never really had a reason to own one. I’ll most likely get a Glock Gen4 by the end of the year.
 

Akronis

Member
Sure from a legal standpoint that's the case but we are talking about being in the heat of the moment. No one is going to care about the legal repercussions at that time. Anyone who could is most likely going to be a witness and that's it.

This is why civilian gun ownership is problematic. People die because they don't know how to use firearms under duress. You shouldn't be able to pull a gun on someone because you're in the heat of the moment. You go to jail for this kind of shit.

CCW is meant for life-threatening situations, not for "I feel threatened so I'll scare him off with my gun"
 

wildfire

Banned
Just to move this discussion sort of forward because DBTG continues to dumb about this.

Yes this country has more guns than people. Most of those guns are hoarded by a small fraction of the country. Overall the number of households with guns is over third. Not even close to half.

FT_14.07.10_Guns3.png
 
Oh, so we're really doing this? The country hasn't progressed since those days, huh? Not even a little bit?

...and because I'm the type of person that vehemently feels guns are not the answer, and are in fact a huge fucking problem, I'm suddenly the enemy here? That's an interesting take. But how about a different take, as in you seem to suggest you're interested in reform(unless I'm mistaken here), so what have you done to ally yourself with the thousands of people that have been impacted by gun-related violence, EVERY YEAR, does their voice not matter because of your love of guns? Do you speak out against the gun lobby and their puppet politicians, if so, how often, how forcefully? Do you donate to those that fight against their power and influence? What are YOU doing for others who need allies, and can't get a win, and who desperately need it?


I hate guns and will never own one, but this is different in many ways than the people who loaded up on guns after Obama got elected, and may have done so again if Hillary was elected.


First, violence and physical intimidation are political. Police violence is political. Attacks by those emboldened by Trump are political. For that matter, Russia used intimidation to scare people away from Hillary. So if all this political violence and intimidation is going on, buying a gun can be a way of standing up to it instead of giving up. Why should one side have such disproportionate intimidation? More guns = bad in general, but evening out the balance is different than one side running up the margin.

Second, if nothing else is working, greater gun ownership among minorities at least has a chance to spur gun reform. Similar things have happened before.

Third, consider these heavily armed demonstrators:


They were protesting outside a jail. Nobody was shot, nobody was arrested. We can't know what would have happened without being armed, but we do know there are times when cowards attack defenseless people.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Okay.

The p238 has only 6 rounds tho...that's what worries me most.
More rounds ≠ more safety. If you put a mag into someone and they don't go down they're not going down. If they keep coming you start running. I read somewhere that if the first bullet doesn't kill someone the chances are they're not going to die (can anyone confirm or deny?)
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Actually went to the gun store last week to take a look at some of the guns I had on my purchase list from online research. Thanks to this thread it got me back on it and actually found this youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC193r5YXcpQJV34N99ZbhzQ

Good to see more minorities taking an active stance on gun ownership. My 1st pistol will be my Christmas present to myself this year.

Dat
savannah cat.

You should also check out Maj Toure and Black Guns Matter, the NAAGA, and if you know other people that might want to join similar groups there's the JPFO (check out their short film No Guns for Negroes, it's a bit propagandist, but has good information,) and the previously mentioned Pink Pistols.

Purse carry vs traditional concealed carry.

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/purse-carry-worst-carry-part-1/
http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/purse-carry-part-2-shooting-purse/

It argues purse carry is way worse than traditional concealed.

There's also, uh...
 
Quoting a pro-Black gun ownership newsletter pdf I have:

Frederick Douglass, who in 1863 was encouraging Blacks to join the Union and fight in the Civil War said, “In your hands that musket means liberty; and should your constitutional rights at the close of this war be denied, which in the nature of things, it cannot be, your brethren are safe while you have a Constitution which proclaims your right to keep and bear arms.” This quote foreshadows everything we will examine.
There was a time that even the Church demanded that the Blacks be armed, in African Methodist Episcopal Church wrote in the 1886 Christian Recorder: “…No military or civil officer has the right or authority to disarm any class of people, thereby placing them at the mercy of others. All men, without distinction of color, have the right to keep arms to defend their homes, families or themselves.” Bishop Henry McNeal Turner wrote an editorial in 1897, as a response to a local lynching, titled, “Negroes Get Guns!”

Ida Wells-Barnett, who was born a slave and who later became the most famous investigator of lynching, after having her life repeatedly threatened, said, “I had already determined to sell my life as dearly as possible if attacked." "I felt if I could take one lyncher with me, this would even up the score a little bit.” She bought a pistol after her friend, Tom Moss, was lynched. She advised the Black community, “The lesson this teaches and which every Afro-American should ponder well, is that a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every Black home.” “It should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give.”

Hubert Harrison, “the father of Harlem radicalism”, said, “I advise you to be ready to defend yourselves. I notice that the State Government has removed some of its restrictions upon owing firearms, and one form of live insurance for your wives and children might be the possession of some of these handy implements.”
Zora Hurston, perhaps the most important Black female writer of the first half of the 20th century, and another leader of the Harlem Renaissance, packed a chrome plated 6-shooter pistol as she traveled throughout the south.

Rosa Parks, “By the time I was six, I was old enough to realize that we were not actually free. The Ku Klux Klan was riding through the Black community, burning churches, beating up people, killing people. . . . My grandfather kept his gun—a doubled barreled shotgun—close by at all times. . . . I remember thinking that whatever happened, I wanted to see it. I wanted to see him shoot that gun.” Rosa Parks organized community and neighborhood meetings that were so armed she recalled, “With the table so covered with guns, I don’t know where I would have put any refreshments.”

A 13 year old Walter White, in Atlanta in 1906, once stood side by side with his father as a mob prepared to burn down their house, “Son, don’t shoot until the first man puts his foot on the lawn and then – don’t you miss!” Mr. White would later lead the NAACP for 25 years.

W.E.B. Du Bois, “I bought a Winchester double-barreled shotgun and two dozen rounds of shells filled with buckshot. If a white mob had stepped on the campus where I lived I would without hesitation have sprayed their guts over the grass.”
One should know about the family of Dr. Ossian Sweet, when he moved in to an all white neighborhood in Detroit in 1925, his family and 9 other people defended his home from a mob of attackers. All 12 in the house were arrested for killing one of the attackers, but were later acquitted by a white jury – this famous court case established that a Black man could kill a White man in self-defense.

Dr. Robert Morton, President of the Tuskegee University, learned of a plan by the Klan to kill him and burn the Tuskegee school down. Dr. Morton’s attitude was recalled by Walter White: “I sat with him in his home at Tuskegee during the height of the trouble. He pointed to a rifle and a shotgun, well oiled and grimly businesslike, that stood in the corner of the room. Although his words in cold print may sound overheroic, they did not sound so to me as he said quietly, ‘I’ve got only one time to die. If I must die now to save Tuskegee Institute, I’m ready. I’ve been running long enough.’”

Condoleezza Rice, the first female National Security Advisor under President Bush witnessed her neighborhood come under attack from racists when a bomb was tossed through the window of a neighbor’s home. She grew up in Birmingham and witnessed the intense racism, her neighborhood formed an armed guard to keep out intruders.

T. Thomas Fortune puts self-defense in perspective: “We do not counsel a breach of the law, but in the absence of law … we maintain that the individual has every right … to protect himself … We do not counsel violence, …we council manly retaliation.”

Dr. TRM Howard, founder of the Regional Council of Negro Leadership (RCNL), kept a Thompson submachine gun in his home, and a rifle or shotgun in every corner of every room, and often wore a pistol on his waist. Every RCNL meeting was well armed, and it was expected that members would carry a concealed gun in public.

Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. also practiced self-defense – he applied for a concealed weapon permit after his house was bombed but the request was refused by local authorities. Members of King’s Baptist Church provided armed body guards for him, his home was described as “a virtual garrison” and in 1956 his home was described as “the place is an arsenal.”

Robert F. Williams, activist and writer of “Negroes with Guns” (1962) said, “Racist consider themselves superior beings and are not willing to exchange their superior lives for our inferior ones. They are most vicious and violent when they can practice violence with impunity.” He also wrote, "It has always been an accepted right of Americans, as the history of our Western states proves, that where the law is unable, or unwilling, to enforce order, the citizens can, and must act in self-defense against lawless violence.” Robert was very active with the NAACP until he was kicked out for being too militant (following the events of the NAACP in Monroe, 1957, see below). Williams created a group called the Black Armed Guard which was a precursor to other armed Black Militia groups who followed a strategy labeled, “God, Gandhi, and Guns.”




Go tell those people I listed above how unsafe they were for daring to own a gun.

Now, if you don't store your guns properly, yes. With proper storage the odds of that decrease tremendously. What are the stats for proper vs improper storage for incidents of accidental/negligent discharges in the home? Or do the stats just lump both in or not even bother to differentiate?

Thank you so much for this!
 

HariKari

Member
What about the M&P Shield 9mm? People seem to like that one a lot.

Honestly, first time owners should get something without a manual safety. That sounds crazy, but it's still hard to accidentally discharge just a basic compact glock. The P238 in particular is a SAO with a manual thumb safety and a hammer, absolutely not a gun for beginners unless you plan to practice with it. Even for experienced shooters it is of questionable utility in an emergency.

The shield is good, you just have to remember to sweep that safety in the event you need to fire. Its one more thing to practice with.

edit: they sell a Shield without a thumb safety.
 
aw hell nawl, this is some nintendo mess

i like the look of those old luger (?) guns with the thin barrel (?)
are those still a thing that you can buy
As a German who (thank God) doesn't have to live in a society armed to the teeth with guns, an insane racism Problem or brutal Police and is completely against guns for anyone who isn't Police, Military or a hunter, I can still totally Unterstand the Situation Black minorities and other ones are in now in the US and their need to protect themselves.

I can also tell you that the last handgun you should buy for that is a Luger. All my granddads had to fight in the Wehrmacht (No, they didn't have a choice) and the gun was an inaccurate, unreliable, constantly malfunctioning piece of crap even back then, to the Point that they were called "Feet Shooters" by vets because of their awful tendency to go off suddenly even with the safety on. It won't be any better now that the Originals are more than 70 years old.If you need a handgun for self protection then buy something modern that is proofen and reliable. Guns aren't toys.
 
A shit load of people vote red for that reason. I don't have much sympathy for grown men whining about their hobbies but, you know what? They exist and they vote like a mother fucker. Regardless of how sad we think that is, we don't have much choice but to live with the reality that sweeping gun legislation is a conversation stopper for a significant portion of the population. Once you come down off the emotional high you're riding on, you might realize how the invocation of a tragedy that, honestly, no reasonably passable gun legislation could have prevented does more harm than good for your argument.

We live in a country where there are already more guns out in the public than there are people. That's our reality. It's a reality that most people in this thread have said they don't prefer but, while we're in this reality, they feel they may as well exercise the rights that white people exercise given the myriad reasons for them to feel threatened.

Surely you can understand how the whole "we've made progress since the 60's, white nationalism has always been a thing, just wait until we get the right politicians in there" arguments aren't exactly compelling to a portion of our population who have been sold on incremental change since forever. We just elected a man who openly courted white nationalism to a degree that you'd have to hop in a time machine and rewind 50 years to see. A president who framed himself as the "Law & Order" candidate, who openly encourages violence against peaceful dissent and wants to shut out critical voices in the media. A president who has nominated a man with, not one, but two names inspired by prominent confederate figures (and he's done everything he could to make his namesakes proud) for the role of Attorney General. I could go on but, the point is, people aren't being paranoid. They're just observing reality and it's shitty to try and dissuade them from finding solace in exercising a right that a good portion of Americans are already exercising. A right that is not going anywhere any time soon.

I had a big, detailed response written out... and then I accidentally closed the tab. It's not the first time that's happened, oh well, but since you wrote all that, you deserve some response, so: I don't like guns, I fucking HATE the gun culture I grew up around, I don't like the power and influence the gun lobby has on the country, and I think it's very much part of the problem, and nowhere close to the solution. BUT, It is a constitutional right, and while I don't particularly care for it in most ways, it is absolutely wrong of me to get on people if they decide to excise that right if they're feeling anxious or fearful, and I would like to walk that back. I guess I get a little passionate and narrow-focused, and if that was taken as me being an asshole and not caring enough, then I promise that was not the intent. There's definitely a difference of opinion here, but I'm good people, I swear. I didn't mean to derail either, if that's how anyone saw it.
 

HariKari

Member
Looks like I've made my choice. I'll head to a store and try it out soon.

Thanks!

If you end up getting one, take some classes, even if your state doesn't require them to get a CCW. The classes will outline use of force scenarios and how the law in your state applies if they're decent. Practice the manual of arms the Shield requires to the point where you can realistically make it ready without thinking. In a stressful scenario, you lose a lot of control, which is why a simple gun that you are familiar with is best. You should also familiarize yourself with the different types of 9mm ammo and how they impact how you have to approach a self defense scenario. You are responsible for every bullet that leaves the gun. Break the gun in with a few boxes of ammo, don't just start carrying it. You are a liability to everyone around you if you carry and you aren't 100% comfortable with your firearm.

Memorize the rules of gun safety

Ranges and other owners (the good ones) take this shit very seriously, as should you.

You'll find it's fun and not scary. Improving becomes a reward. You may even find it hard to stop at owning just one. So, welcome to the club.
 
Fuck yeah. Glad to see a new wave of Americans using their second amendment rights. I just hope that they learn proper gun safety and maintenance while keeping them out of reach of children in their homes.
 

Bedlam

Member
"Great", more guns always solve problems and will definitely not escalate things further.

This thread definitely creates a bleak image of America's future as a society.
Absolutely.

As a European I'm just shaking my head at the dystopia that the USA is becoming and at the people, even here, cheering for it.

The USA and the mentality of its people has problems.

Big problems.
 
"Great", more guns always solve problems and will definitely not escalate things further.


Absolutely.

As a European I'm just shaking my head at the dystopia that the USA is becoming and at the people, even here, cheering for it.

The USA has problems.

Big problems.

People aren't cheering the thought of more guns. They're cheering at the idea of minority folks taking advantage of rights in response to a oppressive government. Wouldn't expect Europeans to understand given they're something like 85+% white. I'm for the complete removal of guns in this country but until that happens then if minority folk want guns then they deserve them.
 

Jokab

Member
How is the reaction to white people owning a lot of guns "we need more strict gun legislation" but minorities buying more "good"?? Pretty sure less guns overall is good unless what you want is more deadly violence.
 
How is the reaction to white people owning a lot of guns "we need more strict gun legislation" but minorities buying more "good"? Pretty sure less guns overall is good unless what you want is more deadly violence?

Well for one, we (white people) seem to go on crazy murder sprees. Whereas I get the sense minority people are buying for actual defense. I'd rather there be fewer guns too but until the law changes to restrict firearms for everybody then black people have every right to take advantage of it.
 

Bedlam

Member
People aren't cheering the thought of more guns. They're cheering at the idea of minority folks taking advantage of rights in response to a oppressive government. Wouldn't expect Europeans to understand given something like 85% is white.
Our Turkish minority (Germany) is not arming itself, for example, because our majority is not armed either.

The sentiment towards guns is generally completely fucked up in the USA. It probably needs another Civil War for something meaningful to happen that stops the ever-increasing spreading of guns in the USA.
 
How is the reaction to white people owning a lot of guns "we need more strict gun legislation" but minorities buying more "good"?? Pretty sure less guns overall is good unless what you want is more deadly violence.

Because (many) white people generally buy them in response to bogeymen conjured up by their paranoid fantasies and minorities buy them in response to an oppressive reality.
 
Our Turkish minority (Germany) is not arming itself, for example, because our majority is not armed either.

Why yes, if I was a <3% minority in Germany I would also be weary of trying to defend myself. You know, given context and history. The majority is armed simply by being the majority. The state/status quo is enough to protect them.
 
How is the reaction to white people owning a lot of guns "we need more strict gun legislation" but minorities buying more "good"?? Pretty sure less guns overall is good unless what you want is more deadly violence.

It is pretty funny to read the reactions in this thread compared to previous ones of a similar nature.
 
I hope all those new gun owners are, you know, taking safety courses and proper handling courses. If I went out and bought a gun today I'd feel scared of even holding it much less using it to defend my life or my loved ones while being threatened.
 

Jokab

Member
Well for one, we (white people) seem to go on crazy murder sprees. Whereas I get the sense minority people are buying for actual defense. I'd rather there be fewer guns too but until the law changes to restrict firearms for everybody then black people have every right to take advantage of it.

But is this really true? White on black (and other minorities too) seems to be very very low compard to for example white on white. Whites aren't really killing blacks, so why do blacks need guns in response to whites having guns? In the statistics below white on black homicide amount to roughly 8,8% of victims from whites, while blacks is 13,3% of US population. What am I missing here? I just don't think arming yourself will make you any safer at all.

MsJz12G.png


Source (2015 stats)
 
But is this really true? White on black (and other minorities too) seems to be very very low compard to for example white on white. Whites aren't really killing blacks, so why do blacks need guns in response to whites having guns? In the statistics below white on black homicide amount to roughly 8,8% of victims from whites, while blacks is 13,3% of US population. What am I missing here? I just don't think arming yourself will make you any safer at all.

Did you miss the part where Donald Trump got elected president?
 
But is this really true? White on black (and other minorities too) seems to be very very low compard to for example white on white. Whites aren't really killing blacks, so why do blacks need guns in response to whites having guns? In the statistics below white on black homicide amount to roughly 8,8% of victims from whites, while blacks is 13,3% of US population. What am I missing here? I just don't think arming yourself will make you any safer at all.

I'm not sure you're using statistics that are relevant. Crime propagates with poverty. Our country has forced a larger percentage of its minority members into harsher conditions. Thus of course the statistics will show increased violence among those stricken by poverty. Furthermore whites get to benefit from a state to protect them. I can walk the streets at night and feel safe without a gun solely on the knowledge that I know that if I were to be attacked then I would matter to the police. Black and other minority Americans do not have the same benefit. If I didn't feel I was protected by the police then I would maybe consider a firearm for defense (assuming I weren't also my current pacifist self).
 
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