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HALO 2 - No bots, and no low-gravity maps in multiplayer: Confirmed

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
Tellaerin said:
Oh please. I guess I should've never commented on the sparks, even though the difference in the pictures that were posted was obvious to anyone who wasn't half blind. Better to pretend I'm above noticing the differences in a multiplatform game and turn a blind eye. :p (And for the record, I ended up picking up the Xbox version of BO3. Still, both the motion blur and the spark effects on the PS2 version are slightly nicer. No need to bust my balls for noticing.)
Oh I'm just joshing you, I mean no harm. :)

You made a valid and accurate point but the resulting thread was pure comedy. Most of the humor sprang from GameFaqs though, I think that's where the direction of these jokes mostly lie (atleast mine does).
 

Future

Member
-------------
considering that bungie is still busting their asses to meet the deadline, to say they're lazy is rediculous as adding bots, making sure their quality (which Bungie would *HAVE* to do) plus all the QA that would require... it would have delayed the game a few more months (at least!)
-------------

I think the same thing was said when the original Halo was released, which is why a lot of people expected (or at least hoped) that for the sequel they would make the time..just like they made the time to add Xbox Live features. I'm a little dissapointed too and can understand why others would be.

But M$/Bungie also know that no matter how dissapointed I am, I'm still gonna get this game .1 seconds after release. :p And that's the bottom line. It's clear that it wouldn't be easy to just place single player AI into multiplayer (Covenant AI in the first Halo clearly wouldn't have worked, because the AI mainly protected zones rather than working together to seek out and kill), but after all that was said about the missing bots in the first I thought at least something would be in there, impressive or not.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
GhaleonEB said:
That's one thing about Bungie that most people don't understand - if it is not the best they can make it, it doesn't get into the game. There were enemies, weapons (flamethrower) and vehicles that were in Halo and pulled at the last minute because they weren't up to the level of quality Bungie wanted. I would rather have no bots than crappy ones that were spotty or frustrating.
You say that as if Bungie are the only developers that strive for perfection or leave features on the cutting room floor. Problem is, when you're talking about a modern day FPS that emphasizes BOTH single-player and multiplayer, bots are a hell of a thing to leave out.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
why are people shocked that bots arent in? from the get go, bungie has been pretty pessimistic about having bots make it in the cut... if a developer says that they probably wont include a feature several different times, shouldnt that be enough to not expect it in?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
op_ivy said:
why are people shocked that bots arent in? from the get go, bungie has been pretty pessimistic about having bots make it in the cut... if a developer says that they probably wont include a feature several different times, shouldnt that be enough to not expect it in?

But this is Halo 2. If it doesn't make you spontaniously orgasm when you open the box, people are gonna be disappointed.
 

Sho Nuff

Banned
op_ivy said:
why are people shocked that bots arent in? from the get go, bungie has been pretty pessimistic about having bots make it in the cut... if a developer says that they probably wont include a feature several different times, shouldnt that be enough to not expect it in?

NO, because BUNGIE is LAZY!
 

Sai

Member
Well, on a lighter note:

Phantoms available in HALO 2's multiplayer?

WATER WORKS
This map is absolutely massive, by far the biggest of the five we played, and definitely the best suited for 16-player team games where tactics and planning are your most effective weapons. It's a huge, deep cavern separated by a bottomless crevice. A bridge spans the void and connects two installations (presumably the Water Works) set at opposite corners of the map.

It could be Earth, but it could be a totally different planet; perhaps the Moon, which has been rumoured to be a location in Halo 2's Campaign Mode.

It's certainly dark, so suddenly stealth tactics become extremely valuable. The level ceiling is also extremely high, which allowed us to hop into Banshees and try out some aerial dog fighting. Speaking of, vehicles feature heavily on Water Works. We saw Spartan Warthogs and Scorpions, and Covenant Wraiths, Banshees and the new Phantom. We had a shot of this huge beast, and while it's not too fast it'll terrify a bunch of enemies when you swoop down on them with plasma cannons blazing.

You can pretty much write off Slayer on this map as the sheer size makes it difficult to even find an enemy. Assault and Capture the Flag are the reasons for hitting up the Water Works. The level throws up some cool problems - should your team storm the bridge and risk getting cut to shreds by a defensive force, or split up, dissolve into the darkness, and find more stealthy ways across?
Quite a shock if true, since Bungie stated before that dropships(which is what the Phantom fits under, no?) could not be used in single or multiplayer... But destroyed quite nicely.

If it fits about 4 passengers that can mann turrets 'n' such, that'd be great for Waterworks. I really do hope this is true.

Sho Nuff said:
NO, because BUNGIE is LAZY!
http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=367678&postcount=69

;/
 

Tellaerin

Member
Sho Nuff said:
NO, because BUNGIE is LAZY!

When a company can't deliver on something as commonplace as bots for multiplayer in their latest FPS, and instead effectively tell you, 'if you want multiplayer, play online', that is lazy. If any high-profile PC FPS was released like that, you'd see half this forum ripping the developer a new one, and rightfully so.

In the end, it boils down to two possibilities. One is that the guys at Bungie figured they'd cut a few corners by not bothering to code multiplayer bot support. The other is that MS told them not to bother with it, because anyone who wants to play the multiplayer modes should either invest in some extra controllers or a Live account.

Laziness or corporate greed, it's one or the other. Take your pick.
 
I can't claim to know or understand the reasoning behind Bungie's decision not to include bots in Halo 2, but I at least know this much: it was one of THE most requested things of Halo 2 after people finished with Halo 1.

Whether they ignored the demand, couldn't get it in on time, didn't have the resources to code the bot AI or just plain felt they knew better, they have ultimately failed to deliver one of the number 1 things their fans have been asking for.

I'd happily give up plasma swords, homing rockets and vehicles that detonate 30 seconds after crumbling to pieces if it meant I could have bots.
 

Bigfoot

Member
Does anyone think that maybe Microsoft made Bungie take out/stop working on bots to help sell Xbox Live?

I had a lot more single player fun with TS2 simply because of the bots and all the multiplayer challenges.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
ScientificNinja said:
I'd happily give up plasma swords, homing rockets and vehicles that detonate 30 seconds after crumbling to pieces if it meant I could have bots.

I wouldn't.

I hate bots.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
"Does anyone think that maybe Microsoft made Bungie take out/stop working on bots to help sell Xbox Live? "

potentially.
Is it confirmed that bots are not in?

what is the state of other multiplayer games (Killzone, TS3, Goldeneye 2 etc) - do they all support bots ? (i'd assume TS3 would given TS2)
 

Tellaerin

Member
Joe said:
ok, now we're just getting silly.

I agree. It is silly to say that you think an option shouldn't be available to everyone just because you don't care for it, especially after you've just finished reading a ton of posts from people who did want said option. It's about as silly as saying all restaurants should stop offering a common garnish because some people don't eat it. :p
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
Tellaerin said:
I hate lettuce and tomatoes.

Fast-food places better stop putting those on everyone's burgers from now on.

I totally hear you on the tomatoes. lettuce not so much though, I mean without lettuce the burger would just look and feel so empty. nobody would miss the tomatoes though. It's just Filler.

Not sure why bungie left out the bots, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't some evil conspiracy...l
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
ScientificNinja said:
I'd happily give up plasma swords, homing rockets and vehicles that detonate 30 seconds after crumbling to pieces if it meant I could have bots.

well thank god you werent behind the decision ;)

Phantoms available in HALO 2's multiplayer?

nope. at least not according to HBO's louis wu who says hes been told CVG must be on crack, as there is no phantom in MP. he did say that hes quite sure there are other flying vehicle(s) besides the banshee though...
 

TheDiave

Banned
No bots again? Fuck! What the hell is wrong with those assholes at Bungie? They brag about how smart the AI is - "It should be played on Heroic" - but they don't put in bots to flaunt said AI. What the hell?
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
other than TS2 , what other games have offline bots and which have online bots (on a console)?

Does Killzone have online bots for instance?
 
catfish said:
I wouldn't.

I hate bots.

Hey, so do I. That's why I play my online FPSes on PC. But I just recently cancelled my subscription to Xbox Live because, let's face it, on top of the mortgage, bills, weekly groceries, petrol, cable TV and broadband, there's just no way I can justify adding that cost to my household budget when I'd only spend at most a couple of hours on it a week. Taking the bots out isn't going to make me resubscribe to Xbox Live - it's just going to make me think Microsoft are a bunch of greedy bastards.
 

Sp3eD

0G M3mbeR
DCharlie said:
other than TS2 , what other games have offline bots and which have online bots (on a console)?

Does Killzone have online bots for instance?

The ones that I can think of off my head (and there are probably many more)

TimeSplitters 1
TimeSplitters 2
Red Faction 2 (PS2/Xbox)
Unreal Tournament (DC/PS2)
Unreal Championship (Xbox)
Perfect Dark (N64)
Counter-Strike (Xbox)
....
I know there are tons of other ones, but my mind is going blank right now. If I were to label computer ones I could sit here and list off about a good 20 or so games that do.

User made bots have been commen place since the days of Quake 1 (Reaperbot, Frogbot), and Quake 2 (Eraser, Gladiator bot). Epic was really the first to tout bots as a major feature made by developers in Unreal 1 in early '98. Pretty much every big name FPS with a robust multiplayer mode has had them since.....
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
I don't know. I just think we call it multiplayer for a reason. Bots just seem to kind of defeat the purpose and destroy the fun of it. Like I said, I guess it would be a big deal if you wanted to run a 16 player CTF game and only had 1 or 2 friends on hand and no online, but since I really couldn't care less about that, a gun, some vehicles, and an arena suffice quite nicely for my Halo multiplayer needs.
 
At the end of the day, I think the lack of bots will be meaningless for the vast majority. I'd hoped to have seen them in the game, but really, they aren't that important. Bungie seems to want this to be focused on seamless social-element integration and very fun and skillfully had matches...bots have never entered this particular picture in any game, IMO. Bots are cool for a while, but soon become too easy to kill (ruining the competitive aspect in final scores) or are too cheap when they are tagged as more challenging....both types are generally stupid and random.

Besides, competing against a bunch of simulated players in a random game doesn't have any sort of thrill, IMO. Unless there are rewards to be had, such as unlockables and such, it doesn't do much.

Anyone know if co-op is still just offline?
 
You know, I've can honestly say I've never enjoyed a nice random multiplayer style game with bots. I just don't find it that exciting. I personally don't mind, but it was never something I really cared for in the first place.

As long as single player rocks and multi is fun, I'm good.
 

Sp3eD

0G M3mbeR
DCharlie said:
these all have online bots?

For the games that I listed, if the game has an online mode then yes it does support online bots.

CS, UT, and UC I know for a fact do. I think TimeSplitters 2 does also.

If the game supports bots it isn't that hard to make them online. Server does all the bot nav and processing, you connect to server :)
 

Dujour

Banned
human5892 said:
No bots?!

Wow, that's really weak. Perfect Dark had bots (a good variety of them, too) and that was a freaking N64 game.

Which was it that gave me nightmares, Darksim or PerfectSim? :(

When I'd play with my friends, I'd put one darksim mixed with a speedsim that was a pacifist. Damn, it was an asshole.
 

AniHawk

Member
Serafitia said:
Which was it that gave me nightmares, Darksim or PerfectSim? :(

When I'd play with my friends, I'd put one darksim mixed with a speedsim that was a pacifist. Damn, it was an asshole.

Or what about KazeSim or VengeSim. Holy Hell.
 

Tellaerin

Member
inpHilltr8r said:
Jeez, what a bunch of fucking whiners.

Yeah, I guess we should all just shut up and be grateful that Bungie's giving us anything at all, right? Maybe I'd agree if they were giving the game away for free, but if they're expecting people to pay for it, then I'm not unreasonable in expecting it to include features that are standard for the genre. Or criticizing when one of those standard features, which I'm partial to, is omitted from the final product in a hamhanded attempt to get people to subscribe to the publisher's online service. Just because you don't a damn about bots doesn't mean that the rest of us are obligated to shut up and hand over our $50 like good little boys and girls because Bungie Does No Wrong. :p
 

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
Tellaerin said:
Yeah, I guess we should all just shut up and be grateful that Bungie's giving us anything at all, right? Maybe I'd agree if they were giving the game away for free, but if they're expecting people to pay for it, then I'm not unreasonable in expecting it to include features that are standard for the genre. Or criticizing when one of those standard features, which I'm partial to, is omitted from the final product in a hamhanded attempt to get people to subscribe to the publisher's online service. Just because you don't a damn about bots doesn't mean that the rest of us are obligated to shut up and hand over our $50 like good little boys and girls because Bungie Does No Wrong. :p

No your not obligated to hand over your $50, please dont buy Halo 2.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Tellaerin said:
When a company can't deliver on something as commonplace as bots for multiplayer in their latest FPS, and instead effectively tell you, 'if you want multiplayer, play online', that is lazy. If any high-profile PC FPS was released like that, you'd see half this forum ripping the developer a new one, and rightfully so.

Oooh. So then where is all the other people whining about games like Half-Life 2 or Doom 3?
 

Insertia

Member
I've learned two things from Halo2 apologist: Bots and level editors are useless.

I'm sure if Halo2 booted up with nothing but a black screen you all would defend that black screen to your deaths.

"They put so much work into this game, can't expect everything to work perfectly. Alls I know is this black screen is GOTY"
 

Goreomedy

Console Market Analyst
No bots? No problem. You shouldn't like them anyway. No online co-op? Who cares? If you can't make a single local friend, it's your problem! No ATVs? It's all good. I can just play Offroad Fury. No mod support? Thank God! It's not like anything of substance has ever come from the mod community. A lack of single player info? Oh shut up you whiner.

Tallaerin, you're not alone. I'm still looking to be convinced Halo 2 is what I hoped it would be (I've preordered just in case). I'm happy that they have a dedicated Live multiplayer mode, but enough is enough. Their focus on selling Live to us for the past year has not been comforting. I want a complete game experience, online and off.

dickie.jpg

Please sir, can I have some more Zanzibar media?
 

Joe

Member
you fucking dolt. you should be applauding bungie for making a full fledged sequel not halo with a new story and a new gun then slapping a 2 on the box.

stop complaining for the sake of complaining.
 

Goreomedy

Console Market Analyst
Joe said:
you fucking dolt. you should be applauding bungie for making a full fledged sequel not halo with a new story and a new gun then slapping a 2 on the box.

stop complaining for the sake of complaining.

Tellaerin has valid concerns that are topical. Yet he's got gamers launching an assault(which don't even respond to his points) in an attempt to silence him for even voicing those. And when I support him, I get called a "fucking dolt" for not appreciating a game that no one has seen any significant coverage on the core component.

This is crazy.
 

Sp3eD

0G M3mbeR
under 2 months left and they are now starting to let the bad things out of the bag. They did this hype wagon totally wrong.
 
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