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[Fahzgoolin]

Motion tracker has been in halo since it's origin. I think it works really well and you can outsmart opponents with it because it doesn't give details on where a person is vertically. I prefer no radar but it just seems to work fine add it is...imo

 

[kittens]

Motion tracker has been in halo since it's origin. I think it works really well and you can outsmart opponents with it because it doesn't give details on where a person is vertically. I prefer no radar but it just seems to work fine add it is...imo

But it does indicate verticality and has since Reach.

 

[Tawpgun]

I agree with many of your ideas but you guys also need to step back and do a reality check.

Sprint is bad. Maybe 343 won't have it in Halo 5? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Our little HaloGAF bubble is one thing but I guarantee you if 343 removed sprint from the game there would be an outcry MUCH larger than more competetive oriented communties. An outcry which can also lead to a drop in player count.

Same thing with radar. Its been one of the more constant features in the entire franchise. Changing it now by removing or downgrading it could spell disaster depite it being good from a gameplay perspective.

The best we can hope for is OPTIONS. And who knows. Maybe public opinion toward sprint will change after they see the glory of Halo 1-3 and H2A. But I'd rather put money on down on the majority of people having the sentiment of "I wish I could sprint in Halo 1-3" because even I find it jarring going from a sprinting Halo to a non sprinting Halo despite knowing that spring ruins the gameplay.

 

[Ramirez]

Halo's radar is about as babby's first as you can get, even an "accessible" game like CoD has a far superior radar system and no one minds it.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

But it does indicate verticality and has since Reach.

Hmmm wow had no idea...

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

While personally I find radar (motion tracker) and no radar to both be fun, no radar without a doubt allows for more interesting and inventive gameplay. I love to use this as my example (#3 not possible with radar, allowing for more clutch plays and requiring more awareness, even when double teaming):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSbtRgCXisU&t=2m36s

Same thing with radar. Its been one of the more constant features in the entire franchise. Changing it now by removing or downgrading it could spell disaster depite it being good from a gameplay perspective.

Nope, sound-based radar is already in CoD and I doubt many people who love radar in general would notice the change. So:

1. The CoD crowd or wider audience they're trying to attract wouldn't notice or care enough.
2. Scrub-a-dub dubs wouldn't notice. And those who do, I doubt they play Halo solely for motion tracker, whereas the other extreme (people who dislike motion tracker) rarely play Matchmaking because of motion tracker. For example:
   

   That would be fine if it actually translated to matchmaking. The problem is that 90% of playlists have radar and are, quite literally, not enjoyable for me to play. If it was 50/50 I wouldn't be so opposed to it.

3. Everybody wins.

 

[Granadier]

I agree with many of your ideas but you guys also need to step back and do a reality check.

Sprint is bad. Maybe 343 won't have it in Halo 5? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Our little HaloGAF bubble is one thing but I guarantee you if 343 removed sprint from the game there would be an outcry MUCH larger than more competetive oriented communties. An outcry which can also lead to a drop in player count.

Same thing with radar. Its been one of the more constant features in the entire franchise. Changing it now by removing or downgrading it could spell disaster depite it being good from a gameplay perspective.

The best we can hope for is OPTIONS. And who knows. Maybe public opinion toward sprint will change after they see the glory of Halo 1-3 and H2A. But I'd rather put money on down on the majority of people having the sentiment of "I wish I could sprint in Halo 1-3" because even I find it jarring going from a sprinting Halo to a non sprinting Halo despite knowing that spring ruins the gameplay.

Can't get much lower than 41,000.
Sprint should go.

 

[Overdoziz]

lets all crouch around like turds

~~fun gameplay~~

 

[VinFTW]

https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/526879595694665729

You do realize "listening" is different from actually making the change, though. Too many people on GAF conflate the two...

The fact that they're looking at it at all and discussing it, especially when its a franchise staple like motion-tracker, is big to me.

 

[lybertyboy]

I'm curious how the fine folk of NeoGAF would answer these questions.

In gametypes where radar is on, what percentage of the player base regularly uses radar?

Of the players that do use radar, how often do you think they use it in a normal, team slayer match?

 

[Fuchsdh]

https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/526879595694665729

You do realize "listening" is different from actually making the change, though. Too many people on GAF conflate the two...

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

I FORGOT about painting targets.. Gears of War does it so well:

No motion tracker + spotting = solution to no mics + improving nonverbal communication. With all the waypoints we have, I'm surprised Halo doesn't have this by now.

A spotting system akin to gears 3 would be pretty high on my wishlist for halo 5

I mean really high. Halo cam learn a lot from gears

 

[Ampoc]

https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/526879595694665729

Something tells me they still won't do anything about it.

I don't understand all this fuss about helping "new" players. Games like League and CS: GO just toss you in the meat and let you go without holding your hand. They are really popular on top of that. Why has Halo become this more "noob-friendly" game? I don't understand..

 

[Tawpgun]

I'm curious how the fine folk of NeoGAF would answer these questions.

In gametypes where radar is on, what percentage of the player base regularly uses radar?

Of the players that do use radar, how often do you think they use it in a normal, team slayer match?

1. 99% Maybe 90% if we assume at least 10% of the active playerbase are braindead BK's that will usually just play heavies for cool explosions.

2. All the time. Radar being a crutch isn't a good analogy. Yes it lets non communicating and less attentive players see where enemies are, but its also a massive help for people who are that good. A pro team with radar enabled would easily win against a pro team with no radar.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

The player in this gif is clearly dependent on motion tracker. Well, how so you may ask? Because he throws grenades without first being aware of his surroundings due to that little red dot he must eliminate, despite his teammate being right there. In this same video, you can see how many times they dance in circles because the players know where each other are, leaving less room for interesting plays.

It happens all the time. All. The. Time.

Spoiler

#RemoveMotionTracker

It's important to reiterate that motion tracker is the problem, not radar. You can have a radar for matchmaking similar to CoD's where it's only based on sound (meaning when you fire, you appear on the radar, not for movement). Sound-based radar is the best compromise for Halo Matchmaking IMO.

All due respect mate, fuck no. Taking Halo's radar even to Destiny levels is a sure fire way to kill off players like myself and friends with 10,000s of games. We prefer default Halo and that includes the "interesting" plays we interact with when radar is on and accurate.

What you're asking for is once again let us make all of Halo MLG settings. Radar on Halo for each and every single game version has been more popular in default playlists population over MLG or AGL or hardcore etc. Why? Radar is fun, is still interesting for others and enables a solo/buddied up player to actually compete against a full blown practised communicated team (which is the minority of MM players, believe it or not).

Anyhow I know I'll derail the thread and have a wave of unpopular opinion thrown at me here but radar is Halo to me. Also GTFO with that babby crap, radar absolutely does not equal bad skills.

 

[Mistel]

I'm curious how the fine folk of NeoGAF would answer these questions.

In gametypes where radar is on, what percentage of the player base regularly uses radar?

Of the players that do use radar, how often do you think they use it in a normal, team slayer match?

I'd say that when it's on in gametypes at least 75-95% use it in those gametypes. I use radar to tell what's going on behind me or to the sides out of my field of view, as I play btb by myself it's helpful.

 

[HTupolev]

I'm curious how the fine folk of NeoGAF would answer these questions.

In gametypes where radar is on, what percentage of the player base regularly uses radar?

Of the players that do use radar, how often do you think they use it in a normal, team slayer match?

What does that even mean? Like, what constitutes using versus not using radar? Putting a piece of duct-tape over the screen? Are there significant amounts of people who don't know what the circle in the lower left is for?

 

[lybertyboy]

Didn't think I would have to define what "using radar" means.

It means looking at radar and using the information gleaned to change your in-game behavior.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I use radar quite a bit. Eyes/surroundings + radar gives you a solid advantage, especially in sneak attacks.

 

[Tawpgun]

Ship with no radar.

Add a paid windows phone only radar app. So immersive!

 

[kittens]

I'm curious how the fine folk of NeoGAF would answer these questions.

In gametypes where radar is on, what percentage of the player base regularly uses radar?

Of the players that do use radar, how often do you think they use it in a normal, team slayer match?

I know a few people who only play Halo MP a few times every few years (usually when a new entry comes out), and it always takes them a while to get in the habit of using radar. I also know a few people who consistently but infrequently play multiplayer, and many of them don't pay much attention to it either.

So hell, I have no clue. From what I can tell from playing thousands of hours of multiplayer, I'd say the majority of players use it at least sparingly.

 

[CliQ]

I would fully support removing motion trackers from the game completely and replace it with a spotting system.

The main reason is that spotting requires some interaction of the player. Which I think is better gameplay then a static "where are they" indicator.

 

[Fracas]

As with any game, it depends on skill level.

 

[BigShow36]

I'm curious how the fine folk of NeoGAF would answer these questions.

In gametypes where radar is on, what percentage of the player base regularly uses radar?

Of the players that do use radar, how often do you think they use it in a normal, team slayer match?

Assuming this isn't their first week playing, 95-100%.


But lets assume the worst; lets assume 50% of the population "uses" radar. I would then assume that the 50% not using are lower skilled players and the 50% using are more highly skilled. That means that bad players don't need it because they aren't using it anyway, and good players don't need it because it breaks the game at higher levels.

 

[Darryl M R]

So with this Xbox One november sale I'm more than likely going to get MCC. Will forge mode be included in the game? I loved the Halo community creativity.

 

[Woorloog]

In my experience, bad and/or new players do not use the radar much.
My friend (not a new player but not very good either really) for example, he seems to be blind to it very often (interestingly, i can watch mine and his radar in splitscreen... I often warn him before he has any idea someone is approaching).
And the amount of encounters when i can approach one without sneaking without being detected...

Me, i use it constantly, if i can. If not... well, the game is better without radar, i can concentrate fully other stuff.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

2. All the time. Radar being a crutch isn't a good analogy. Yes it lets non communicating and less attentive players see where enemies are, but its also a massive help for people who are that good. A pro team with radar enabled would easily win against a pro team with no radar.

What I'm also interested in is what it does to the matches with high level players playing against high level players. Do they just run in blindly and chase red dots? Highly unlikely. How about using that information to better hold positions, resulting in more defensive playstyles and peek-a-boo gameplay? I think so.

Now how about high level players using motion tracker in Matchmaking? More than likely a landslide because seeing a red dot to a high level player tells them infinitely more information than it does for an average player. Also, it severely gimps an area where average players can outplay high level players: their movement/map traversal. You can be a slightly above average player who has phenomenal movement and map awareness, but with motion tracker those skills take a hit.

Map traversal is a pillar of Halo, and motion tracker limits creativity because what's the point of taking a risk when they can see you approaching on their radar anyway?

Didn't think I would have to define what "using radar" means.

It means looking at radar and using the information gleaned to change your in-game behavior.

I think it changes a lot about a person's playstyle, especially if they solely play Matchmaking. I want to play Halo more aggressively sometimes, but motion tracker severely limits that, so I'm forced to match the playstyles of my opponent. However, if my opponent is playing extremely defensive without motion tracker, then I could be more creative in my approaches.

 

[BeamImpact]

I'm curious how the fine folk of NeoGAF would answer these questions.

In gametypes where radar is on, what percentage of the player base regularly uses radar?

Of the players that do use radar, how often do you think they use it in a normal, team slayer match?

honestly i think like 5% of the people actually actively pay attention to the radar while the other 95% doesnt or only in rare moments
a casual gamer wants to be involved into the game and not paying attention to some boring radar, its the fast and instant action that hes looking for and therefore also pays attention to the main gameplay not caring that much on radar, health or remaining bullets in the mag
the 5% that actually pay attention are the same people that are already good and use the radar to get that additional tactical awareness to be better which shifts the disparity even more toward the hardcore

imo just turn it off, the regular gamer most likely benefits more from that than he might know while the hardcore do have their agenda beind fullfilled

 

[Mix]

As with any game, it depends on skill level.

This.

honestly i think like 5% of the people actually actively pay attention to the radar while the other 95% doesnt or only in rare moments
a casual gamer wants to be involved into the game and not paying attention to some boring radar, its the fast and instant action that hes looking for and therefore also pays attention to the main gameplay not caring that much on radar, health or remaining bullets in the mag
the 5% that actually pay attention are the same people that are already good and use the radar to get that additional tactical awareness to be better which shifts the disparity even more toward the hardcore

imo just turn it off, the regular gamer most likely benefits more from that than he might know while the hardcore do have their agenda beind fullfilled

Are you kidding me? Where the hell did you get those numbers? They make zero sense. Please show me where you get that information.

 

[TriStateTryHard]

Map traversal is a pillar of Halo
.

"...the spirit of the Halo combat model which rewards player skill, fire and movement."

http://www.hardylebel.com/2014/10/universal-truth-game-design-3-part-3/

Checks out.

 

[kittens]

So with this Xbox One november sale I'm more than likely going to get MCC. Will forge mode be included in the game? I loved the Halo community creativity.

It's in Halo 3, 4, and H2A.

 

[YourExWife]

All I know is that even if radar/motion tracker is enabled, Daedalius won't know the difference...

 

[VinFTW]

What I'm also interested in is what it does to the matches with high level players playing against high level players. Do they just run in blindly and chase red dots? Highly unlikely. How about using that information to better hold positions, resulting in more defensive playstyles and peek-a-boo gameplay? I think so.

Now how about high level players using motion tracker in Matchmaking? More than likely a landslide because seeing a red dot to a high level player tells them infinitely more information than it does for an average player. Also, it severely gimps an area where average players can outplay high level players: their movement/map traversal. You can be a slightly above average player who has phenomenal movement and map awareness, but with motion tracker those skills take a hit.

Map traversal is a pillar of Halo, and motion tracker limits creativity because what's the point of taking a risk when they can see you approaching on their radar anyway?


I think it changes a lot about a person's playstyle, especially if they solely play Matchmaking. I want to play Halo more aggressively sometimes, but motion tracker severely limits that, so I'm forced to match the playstyles of my opponent. However, if my opponent is playing extremely defensive without motion tracker, then I could be more creative in my approaches.

Yeah, for me personally, motion-tracker takes a game that's so rewarding to know the cool ins-and-outs of maps and using that knowledge (that your learned yourself) against enemies, and turns it into a game where you "follow the dots". It's almost like the game itself is the mini-game.

 

[Slightly Live]

I'm curious how the fine folk of NeoGAF would answer these questions.

In gametypes where radar is on, what percentage of the player base regularly uses radar?

Of the players that do use radar, how often do you think they use it in a normal, team slayer match?

I don't think we can answer these questions fully without surveying a sample of the playerbase.

Anecdotally however, I tend to use the radar aggressively in every small to medium map and gametype (in BTB it is used significantly less due to the nature of how bigger games work).

I find a lot of people do check their radar (definitely more often than not) and rely on the information it gives us, which makes taking advantage of the trusting behaviour particularly easy. If a room ahead appears empty on radar, a person is likely to enter it and let their guard down, perfect for ambush.

I find radar games much more fun because of this and I'd want to keep radar in. Sneaking around is much more easy without a radar but I think it's just a free pass. With radar on, you need to either outwit the enemy or outplay them.
This behaviour is consistent, for me at least, across 3, Reach and 4.

 

[Mix]

All I know is that even if radar/motion tracker is enabled, Daedalius won't know the difference...

I'm actually dead

 

[Poker Face]

Didn't think I would have to define what "using radar" means.

It means looking at radar and using the information gleaned to change your in-game behavior.

Most people would use it, no?

I can only imagine people not using it if they don't understand how it works. So I'd say like 95% of players use it.

 

[BeamImpact]

This.


Are you kidding me? Where the hell did you get those numbers? They make zero sense. Please show me where you get that information.

i wrote "honestly i think" right at the start

and this knowledge/assumption comes from playing lots of hours with real casuals, the people that are part of neogaf are the hardcore that tend to reflect their own gaming habbit on everyone else playing the game thinking 80-90% of all people would actively pay attention to the radar while from my experience the big share of the players actually doesnt, thats what i tried to say

take your console to some friends that dont play games regularly, youd be surprised how often they find theirself running around with just a few bullets in the mag losing their encounters that way
or use a spectator in eg BF4 and take some impressions that way, the outcome is the same

 

[TriStateTryHard]

Seriously, someone explain to me how Promethean Vision is bad but Radar is good.

 

[kittens]

Most people would use it, no?

I can only imagine people not using it if they don't understand how it works. So I'd say like 95% of players use it.

People may know how to use it and still just forget about it. It's another thing to think about on top of even more fundamental things like moving, aiming, switching weapons, navigating the map, etc. All of this stuff is second nature to us, but using radar is like probably not even in the top ten most basic skills people need to learn when they first play Halo. People who play on an occasional and / or casual basis may never get in the habit of using it effectively. Like I said before, I've known a handful of people like that.

 

[Madness]

I'm curious how the fine folk of NeoGAF would answer these questions.

In gametypes where radar is on, what percentage of the player base regularly uses radar?

Of the players that do use radar, how often do you think they use it in a normal, team slayer match?

I would say over 90% for sure on both counts. It's just far too important and people now rely on it like a crutch. It's why people go crazy if they play a lot of matches and are then thrown into a playlist without radar. They don't know of how to play. There is nothing to look at anymore. They don't know if someone is behind them, above them, about to come from behind, etc. You'd be foolish to not use radar/motion tracker when it's activated. It completlet changes the way I play when it's on, because I can see where people are all around me, where they might come from etc.

 

[Mix]

The people who don't like motion tracker are proposing a spotting system? I'm a going crazy?

I think we've stepped into the Twilight Zone!

 

[Woorloog]

I wonder if the motion tracker use is so automatic for HaloGAFers that the whole concept of it being unused is an alien one, so to speak. I mean, most here seem to be decent players at very least, so i'd expect the radar use to be more or less automatic for most.

I know i'm exasperated when i see my friend(s) not doing things i think are obvious. Like not noticing the radar.

I've noticed i don't even actively look at it, i'm just kind of aware of it (but i don't miss it if it isn't in use, i'll just play more carefully)-

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

I find a lot of people do check their radar (definitely more often than not) and rely on the information it gives us, which makes taking advantage of the trusting behaviour particularly easy. If a room ahead appears empty on radar, a person is likely to enter it and let their guard down, perfect for ambush.

Another example that creates poor player habits. Just because you don't see any red dots on your motion tracker means you can just run into a room? Well, for a lot of people dependent on motion tracker, it sure does.

What happens after? Chances are they don't reflect on their gameplay because they don't care enough, whereas no motion tracker would probably result in them having more fun, whether they realize it or not, unless crouching around is their thing.

I find radar games much more fun because of this and I'd want to keep radar in. Sneaking around is much more easy without a radar but I think it's just a free pass. With radar on, you need to either outwit the enemy or outplay them.
This behaviour is consistent, for me at least, across 3, Reach and 4.

Not necessarily. With motion tracker, two things happen:

1. People watch the motion tracker and know your moves. So what do you do if you don't want to be seen? Walk slow or crouch, slowing the game down.
2. What interesting plays are being limited without motion tracker? Let's take Promethean Vision for example. Does it really tell you much more than what we currently have? Very detailed motion tracker (elevation, good distance, vehicles) and grenade indicators. So what does Promethean Vision really tell you more than that? Nothing actually, but it also makes your vision obscured whereas motion tracker and grenade indicators do not.
   
   But back to your note on interesting plays, and not to sound offensive as there's no other way to put this, but isn't it common sense that you can be more creative in your movement when the enemy doesn't know your every move?

Halo is a game that doesn't have fast kill times, so I think it's a little excessive to promote campy playstyles by enabling motion tracker across the board.

The people who don't like motion tracker are proposing a spotting system? I'm a going crazy?

biggy pliss.


EDIT:

Seriously, someone explain to me how Promethean Vision is bad but Radar is good.

lmfao funny timing

 

[Magwik]

I've never had an issue with radar after 10+ years.

 

[BigEvilTurtle]

Seriously, someone explain to me how Promethean Vision is bad but Radar is good.

Both are bad. They're like the same thing.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Seriously, someone explain to me how Promethean Vision is bad but Radar is good.

PV gives you exact position and orientation of the player. Radar does not. Also, you can crouch to negate radar.

 

[CliQ]

I've never had an issue with radar after 10+ years.

That's a funny statement to me. I think what you mean is you can play Halo with motion trackers and still perform well. That doesn't mean it isn't taking something away from you.

You play around it and I get that. The talking points here are how Halo is improved by removing motion trackers.

 

[Cow]

Seriously, someone explain to me how Promethean Vision is bad but Radar is good.

Promethean is just the extreme of radar. Promethean vision gives exact details of your opponents position, radar gives an indication. Whilst going around a corner with promethean vision you know exactly where to have your reticule. Don't forget how large the range of promethean vision is.

I definitely think the strength of radar in Halo should be reduced. Smaller radius and no indication of verticality. That would be a reasonable compromise. Theres no way it's getting removed.

 

[CliQ]

Not to get off topic here but does anyone know how I become an actual member? I've been on HaloGaf for several years now and I'm still a junior member.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Not to get off topic here but does anyone know how I become an actual member? I've been on HaloGaf for several years now and I'm still a junior member.

need at least 300 posts