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Halo |OT11| Forward Unto Dong

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Reasons that the map editor of one of the largest-budget first person shooters ever made does not allow players to change the color of objects after being requested for years:
  • would multiple colors and distinct landmarks and a unique visual identity really improve a map?
  • can 2012 technology support it?

Nobody is saying that having more colors would be a bad thing. But feasibility is a key aspect in design good sir. When suggesting a feature it definitely helps to understand the feasibility of it or atleast brainstorming a feasible way to meet said suggestions as much as possible.

This game is fun.
 
I really am curious on how you would implement an RGB slider for static meshes. Would you color swap, tint the whole texture atlas, tint the atlas with a color mask, etc. As someone interested in game/level design I'd love to hear how others would go about adding such a feature. I've devoted a lot of time to considering these features myself so having more views on said subject would be quite valuable.

CC mask for diffuse. CC mask for diffuse everywhere.

Which would then mean loading more textures. Even if they were to put the CC into the alphas of some of the other textures, it would still make the texture sizes bigger.
 

Yeah but that doesn't change what I am saying. I know I have personally posted insults and meaningless posts. but I never mean bad by it. I really do like seeing the diversity here. Seeing posts that make me rethink what I knew about Halo 11 years later is just incredible. Some of kylej's and bigshows posts have opened my eyes so much it is unreal. Some people just understand Halo so much more than me, and it's awesome. The majority of HaloGAF probably understands Halo more than me, and all these revealing posts just amaze me.
 

Ramirez

Member
Edit: and Rammmmn, I bought you a surprise!

spongebob.jpg
 
CC mask for diffuse. CC mask for diffuse everywhere.

Which would then mean loading more textures. Even if they were to put the CC into the alphas of some of the other textures, it would still make the texture sizes bigger.

Interesting solution but I think we can do better. I'm on my phone right now so I'll be back in the morning with how I think it could be done possibly. I'm no graphics expert though... Lol. See you guys tomorrow.
 

Ryaaan14

Banned
no what I want you to do is tell me how you would have a "simple RGB slider" actually work.

because this is what im hearing you say

o hey luk guis, COLOR WHEEL
turf9.jpg


now assuredly that isnt what you mean, but I dont know how else with the way your wording it

Sadly enough, that would make a lot of people here tongue-tied about what to bitch about with Forge.
 
Interesting solution but I think we can do better. I'm on my phone right now so I'll be back in the morning with how I think it could be done possibly. I'm no graphics expert though... Lol. See you guys tomorrow.

That's the stupid-simple way of doing it. But it would be a literal fix for people wanting color changes. Nevermind the fact that the normal maps would make everything look stupid. You'd essentially have Forerunner or even human stuff, whose shader looks metal or plastic, and yet it's color bright red or something.


Gonna work on something that would actually make sense, I'll post it when I'm finished.
 

FyreWulff

Member
What we need more right now is the ability to make terrain. There would be less monovisuality if we could make parts of the map out of actual ground instead of simulating ground with the same objects we use to make normal structures out of.


edit: After that, the ability to populate the map with foliage.
 
What we need more right now is the ability to make terrain. There would be less monovisuality if we could make parts of the map out of actual ground instead of simulating ground with the same objects we use to make normal structures out of.

Stop making sense. Get your logic out of here, damn it.
 

Pop

Member
why yes, turning forge into the far cry 2 map maker would be swag.

Were you even able to use those maps for online use besides yourself? I can't remember...

-------

Anyway give me the aluminum foil texture pack for forge so I can make sweet sounds running across shiny sheets.
 

Ryaaan14

Banned
343 needs to staff a development documenter. Someone to film the three years of work during the production and give in-depth interviews from every department in the studio. I think it would be a nice reality check to the people who sit on their couches and complain about features.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Were you even able to use those maps for online use besides yourself? I can't remember...

-------

Anyway give me the aluminum foil texture pack for forge so I can make sweet sounds running across shiny sheets.

You can use maps online, they just didn't have a file share mechanism for the earlier games.

Far Cry 3 lets you place AI so you can make qausi-campaign levels, I believe.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Still playing Halo: CEA. I was going to go through this game without grabbing any of the skulls or terminals...then I read about the Bandana skull. That should help my hair not turn grey.
 
343 needs to staff a development documenter. Someone to film the three years of work during the production and give in-depth interviews from every department in the studio. I think it would be a nice reality check to the people who sit on their couches and complain about features.

Was talking to a friend about this.

Basically it always comes down to "I don't know how stuff works, BUT IT SHOULD BE IN THE GAME. YOU OWE ME."
 

feel

Member
What we need more right now is the ability to make terrain. There would be less monovisuality if we could make parts of the map out of actual ground instead of simulating ground with the same objects we use to make normal structures out of.


edit: After that, the ability to populate the map with foliage.
That's awfully selfish of you, next time think of the MS suits and the DLC revenue needed to cover their yatch payments before making a post like that, thanks.
 

Ryaaan14

Banned
Was talking to a friend about this.

Basically it always comes down to "I don't know how stuff works, BUT IT SHOULD BE IN THE GAME. YOU OWE ME."

Pretty much.

People have a hard time considering the fact that people punch in for work every fucking day for years making it. Here you have professionals who are essentially an all-star video game development team, and you're criticizing things that were probably written on a dry-erase board from day 1.

Shit ain't that easy. I'm not slurping or making excuses for 343. But people need to base their arguments on real world scenarios sometimes.
 
343 needs to staff a development documenter. Someone to film the three years of work during the production and give in-depth interviews from every department in the studio. I think it would be a nice reality check to the people who sit on their couches and complain about features.

For real bro. I would have eaten up the limited edition if it had a "Making of" dvd like Halo 2. Seeing the birth of 343 leading to the launch of Halo 4 would have been amazing.
 
What we need more right now is the ability to make terrain. There would be less monovisuality if we could make parts of the map out of actual ground instead of simulating ground with the same objects we use to make normal structures out of.


edit: After that, the ability to populate the map with foliage.

Agreed and I'll through in my idea for how I think terrain should work in the future.
 

dmg04

#DEADWRONG
So right now I'm trying to do the whole '400 MS points via bing' thing... When did they implement "Do X searches per month to KEEP gold status"?

If i don't do 150 bing searches, I go back down to silver
lol
 
So, an example of one way of doing this that I was thinking about:


Ywbzbl.jpg



Forgive the quality, took about five minutes, but it at least shows the general idea here.

So basically, those two planes are using the exact same diffuse texture, with a CC map for the different coloration, and a different normal map.

On the right you have a typical Forerunner panel. Gray(no change to diffuse color), and some Forerunner-looking lines on the Normal.

On the left, you have the SAME diffuse, but with the diffuse color changed to a more light brown-ish color(via CC map, RGB tint), and a normal map that makes it look more like...dirt or sand or something.


So, in theory you could do this, and give the player the option of having a Forerunner, UNSC, Civilian, Covenant look to the Forge objects like someone above mentioned, without actually having to model, UV, independently texture, tag, etc. a bunch of different pieces. Would take up less disc space, and RAM.

The only downside to this, is that you would then have to have more textures. A CC map for every Forge piece, and multiple different normal maps for each as well. So right now a typical Forge object might have something anywhere from 2-5 textures(diffuse, specular, normal, illumination, AO?), it could potentially go to 7 or more, depending on how they have stuff set up. So, even if Forge had say...50 objects, at 5 textures a piece, that's 250 textures JUST for the Forge objects alone. Adding the extra two would be an extra 100 textures. Textures are a pretty big resource hog to begin with. Adding to that would either hurt the game framerate wise, or they would have to accommodate for it by toning down the overall graphics of the game, just to make room for the extra textures.
 

Noricart

Member
You guys need to stop thinking on how to improve things; go back to complaining.
So right now I'm trying to do the whole '400 MS points via bing' thing... When did they implement "Do X searches per month to KEEP gold status"?

If i don't do 150 bing searches, I go back down to silver
lol
Fairly recently. One guy said he had 5 or so accounts and has never run out of points.
Just look up automated search or something.

The only downside to this, is that you would then have to have more textures. A CC map for every Forge piece, and multiple different normal maps for each as well. So right now a typical Forge object might have something anywhere from 2-5 textures(diffuse, specular, normal, illumination, AO?), it could potentially go to 7 or more, depending on how they have stuff set up. So, even if Forge had say...50 objects, at 5 textures a piece, that's 250 textures JUST for the Forge objects alone. Adding the extra two would be an extra 100 textures. Textures are a pretty big resource hog to begin with. Adding to that would either hurt the game framerate wise, or they would have to accommodate for it by toning down the overall graphics of the game, just to make room for the extra textures.
Sounds like Halo 5 needs a disc just for fully realized forge (even if blu-ray)
 

Ryaaan14

Banned
So, an example of one way of doing this that I was thinking about:


Ywbzbl.jpg



Forgive the quality, took about five minutes, but it at least shows the general idea here.

So basically, those two planes are using the exact same diffuse texture, with a CC map for the different coloration, and a different normal map.

On the right you have a typical Forerunner panel. Gray(no change to diffuse color), and some Forerunner-looking lines on the Normal.

On the left, you have the SAME diffuse, but with the diffuse color changed to a more light brown-ish color(via CC map, RGB tint), and a normal map that makes it look more like...dirt or sand or something.


So, in theory you could do this, and give the player the option of having a Forerunner, UNSC, Civilian, Covenant look to the Forge objects like someone above mentioned, without actually having to model, UV, independently texture, tag, etc. a bunch of different pieces. Would take up less disc space, and RAM.

The only downside to this, is that you would then have to have more textures. A CC map for every Forge piece, and multiple different normal maps for each as well. So right now a typical Forge object might have something anywhere from 2-5 textures(diffuse, specular, normal, illumination, AO?), it could potentially go to 7 or more, depending on how they have stuff set up. So, even if Forge had say...50 objects, at 5 textures a piece, that's 250 textures JUST for the Forge objects alone. Adding the extra two would be an extra 100 textures. Textures are a pretty big resource hog to begin with. Adding to that would either hurt the game framerate wise, or they would have to accommodate for it by toning down the overall graphics of the game, just to make room for the extra textures.

I think that pretty much sums it up. But it's easier to just say "Fuck it, they're lazy. Forge has improved lighting."
 

Raide

Member
The Terrain stuff for Halo Forge would be awesome. Maybe for Halo 5!

More Forge Pallets that are not restricted to one map would be nice. Give Forgers a nice open space and let them choose what bits they want to mix in. Memory always seems to be mentioned but all these complex maps with buildings baked into the world, all of that must be taking up more memory.

Just give us nice boxes with a skybox around it and then give us way more variety than 4x rocks and a seastack. Some more varied pieces of scenery would make it much easier to plan out the terrain before we start mapping out. Hell, let us do that and then bake the scenery into the map before we start.

Just adding a colour wheel is not going to make Forge great, it will just lead to randomly coloured maps that make people puke. :D

A balance of new forge palettes, more prefab items to add some uniqueness to maps, maybe a dash of weather effects or a way to quickly make the map turn to snow/sand etc. Also scrap the light effects like Next-gen, Pen and Ink etc. Utterly worthless. If they can bake in shadows, give us more lights to bake in.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Master Chief was indoctrinated. It was all a dream.

Fuck youtube. It constanly signs me out and wants me to use Finnish language there. No, keep me signed in and do not offer Finnish, English works just fine!

BTW, we have FemShep as a Spartan in addition to the Didact being a Reaper (Jennifer Hale voices Sarah Palmer... at least she sounds like Hale).
 

Conor 419

Banned
Got given a free Kebab last night....

As in...the guy took a WHOLE fucking Kebab off the weird spinny thing and gave it to me and my friends. It was fucking dope, we were so excited that we didn't know what to do with it. After taking it back to my friends house at 5am, a load of us ended up in the kitchen. After a bit of general lairyness, one thing led to another and before you know it we had completely trashed the house.
 

Omni

Member
Found an old LCD tv to replace my broken plasma for the time being... Everything looks so bad though. I feel like I'm gaming in 480p or whatever it is, but my output settings are on 720p. Aliasing is so terrible and everything is flat. Menus look like shit too (especially the HUD in CEA)


UGH. Anyone know if there's a setting to make it look good? I know my description isn't very good, but in short it looks like everything is sub-hd (even the dashboard). I've tried HDMI and component cables. It doesn't make sense. (This is my first time gaming on a LCD... so maybe that's it?)
 
Got given a free Kebab last night....

As in...the guy took a WHOLE fucking Kebab off the weird spinny thing and gave it to me and my friends. It was fucking dope, we were so excited that we didn't know what to do with it. After taking it back to my friends house at 5am, a load of us ended up in the kitchen. After a bit of general lairyness, one thing led to another and before you know it we had completely trashed the house.

Wait, you mean you got this:

kebab.jpg


?

Awesome!
 
Got given a free Kebab last night....

As in...the guy took a WHOLE fucking Kebab off the weird spinny thing and gave it to me and my friends. It was fucking dope, we were so excited that we didn't know what to do with it. After taking it back to my friends house at 5am, a load of us ended up in the kitchen. After a bit of general lairyness, one thing led to another and before you know it we had completely trashed the house.

That made me laugh, kind of curious - did any of you actually eat any of it - I wouldnt go anywhere near a free kebab - sounds so dangerous lol.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Imagine this for Forge objects:

JYp85.png


With this you could add subtle coloring to objects and not only bright contrasting colors which some people on here seems to think.
 

Raide

Member
Imagine this for Forge objects:

JYp85.png


With this you could add subtle coloring to objects and not only bright contrasting colors which some people on here seems to think.

I would rather do that with more lighting than changing each and every object. Its not just about having a variety of colours, it about having a variety of objects that fit into the map that is built. UNSC Pallet = Lots of grey but they should add a run-down UNSC pallet with broken bits and maybe an over-run version with grass and foliage taking over. I would much prefer more object options.
 

Gazzawa

Member
Here's some dialogue from Halo 4
Cortana: chief, you don't owe the UNSC anymore. You've given these people everything!
Chief: Not everything,
Not yet lol
I have arrived at camp HYPE.
where do I pitch my tent?
 

Conor 419

Banned
Wait, you mean you got this:

kebab.jpg


?

Awesome!

Yes, we got that.

That made me laugh, kind of curious - did any of you actually eat any of it - I wouldnt go anywhere near a free kebab - sounds so dangerous lol.

It was about 5am so the kebab shop were about to close, they were about to throw the thing away when naturally, our paleolithic instincts kicked in and we're all holding our hands up going 'no no no no, we'll take it'

Before we know it, we are outside and well psyched because we have a fucking HUGE slab of Kebab meat on a metal pole, which we all help ourselves too because whilst it looked sketchy as fuck, it was something of a trophy which gave it a victory flavour. We all got a taxi back before realising none of us actually had enough cash, so we had to haggle with the taxi driver for like, 20 minutes before we realised that he wasn't going to accept a kebab as payment, and he realised that we really didn't have enough, so he let us off the rest.

It's about half five at this point and there's like, eight of us in the kitchen smoking and the kebab's still going about, everybody is still absolutely smashed. I'm not really sure how it started but bits of kebab started flying about for jokes. I realised that there were unfinished plates of food in the room and sure enough someone broke the chaos barrier and decided to pick up half a finished plate of chinese and throw it at someone else. Next thing's next and all hell breaks lose, the kitchen is quite literally being trashed, a BBQ sauce bottle is burst and it goes all over the fucking place, people are trying to avoid projectiles but they're slipping on it and sliding across the floor, with their clothes quite literally ruined. An ironing board got kicked over, people are throwing bottles at the wall, a chair got hurled across the room.

Like a flash it's all over and we all start chilling in the lounge.
 

zap

Member
And Minecraft let's you start with superflat worlds.

I'm wondering if they wanted to do some of these things, or they just didn't understand what we want after 2 games...

Because surely there is a way of getting Forge to have simple blocks, colours and flat spaces. I can't believe that so little has been added or improved on in this area.
 
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