For as amazing as the Farcry level editor has been, the gameplay has always been lackluster. Multiplayer wise the maps were always too large for their own good.
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For as amazing as the Farcry level editor has been, the gameplay has always been lackluster. Multiplayer wise the maps were always too large for their own good.
RebornYeti
Member
I mean on a MP standpoint. The Singleplayer looks really good, IMO.
Shake Appeal
Member
What makes it sadder is Far Cry 2 was more or less a masterpiece if you gloss over some of its flaws.
I can't comprehend what point you're trying to make. Championing Far Cry's map editor doesn't mean you have to care about Far Cry 3 or Far Cry multiplayer.
Has 343 talked about King of the Hill much? Every returning game type has been updated or overhauled, and I'm wondering what they did with KoTH, but can't find anything official. (Not looking for leaked stuff.)
My current placeholder description is:
Unless they updated it in some way, I might just leave it at that. :lol
My current placeholder description is:
King of the Hill
There's this hill, see. You want to stand in it to score points....
There's this hill, see. You want to stand in it to score points....
Unless they updated it in some way, I might just leave it at that. :lol
Bregmann Roche
Member
No mom and pop stores left in America. Blame Walmart. Looks like 9 days and 10 hours until I'm playing a real Halo game again.
Deputy Moonman
Member
Went to gameday this morning at ou. Was fun. Back on topic I just wish that halo4 was 9ut already so I could hear some meaty opinions of the game from a broad group of fans that have been playing for hours and hours and hours. Oh and I wish the (fud spoiler maybe? )
pistol was as stong in halo4 as it is in fud
nillapuddin
Member
I saw a video of new KOTH, its hard to know if there were any custom settings used
There were 6~ hills on the map, 3 active at a time
Each Hill was worth 25 points, once those 25 points were used up it rotated to one of the vacant spaces
again, idk how much leaked stuff can be trusted, but thats how it was working
edit: hell, come to think of it, i dont even remember how KOTH works in Reach
VanquishUK
Member
In my opinion it looks like it plays a lot more like Battlefield or Medal of Honor.
Should've given Rare a chance.
No, but it will go a long way. I know I won't want to build on something very long that is full of hills and slopes. A large surface that has some kind of ground layout (grass, sand, snow, whatever) adds a great starting point to make a simple map and a user can go a million different ways to build it. Instead, you go look at some areas in Forge World and you can only do so much until you want to give up due to the lack of simple space. Exact same thing for the areas in Halo 4's locations.
It's a massive step up from what we were given in Halo 3's Forge, so I can't completely agree to that. The ground surface in Sandbox was nice, albeit worrisome with the hills on the outside due to no ability to lay out killzones or invisible walls. That created problems for Snipers, and vehicle routes.
Their primary issue with FW was creating a gigantic map with specific places to build on natural terrain. So there were obvious limitations from the getgo; it's kind of funny how Paradiso/the island ended up being an Invasion author's paradise, rather than something good for a player to build many good maps on.
Bregmann Roche
Member
That sounds more like a 3-plots variant than a KotH game. Sounds fun, but I'm not convinced that 343 would make that the base rules.
His community is High Speed Halo... runNOKYARDrun
Pretty much kills it for them if no timer/scoring or campaign theater.
nillapuddin
Member
thats not how 3-plots works though bud, 3 plot is persistent territories
edit:
Each Hill had a letter, I think it went up to "E" so they were all really recognizable, I liked that, the HUD markers were really intuitive aswell
(as seems to be the norm)
Thanks. I like the idea of concurrent hills, that sounds like a fun take on it, though I'm not sure if that would be the playlist setting. I'll leave my placeholder in until we see what the launch playlists/game types are going to be. I assume 343 will talk about those soon.
It's a similar idea, just applied to KotH. The team that holds 2 of 3 active hills is going to win.
It definitely makes it harder.
HiredN00bs
Member
This is so good.
This might sound crazy, but what if we're not noticing something and it actually makes it better for them?
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Ah, I didn't even think of the ramification of campaign scoring/theater on speed runs. I can't even fucking fathom why Campaign Scoring was cut.. there is no way that was a huge technical issue.. I can understand theater to a degree, assuming it was a technical issue.. but I am not happy about it at all.. nor am I happy that it being cut has yet to be admitted by 343. Thats a bomb that should have been dropped as soon as they realized it would not make it in.
Portugeezer
Member
Come on, that video is old, and the single player of FC3 looks good... I will give them the benefit of the doubt until I see a new MP video.
The P of Poland
Member
I went to it earlier this year for Carolina-Georgia. It would have been more fun if I hadn't stayed up all night the previous night.
Tha Robbertster
Member
Maybe you can still see the times for each camaign mission on Waypoint? Though I think the biggest problem is no clips of the speedruns.
I really hope we'll get an explanation for no campaign theater.
Nok isn't reacting because he obviously wants real confirmation, or to be able to see what they can do himself. Which is a better approach than I would've probably taken... I overreact a bit. It would be close to Forge getting sniped for me.
Hope they're taken care of.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
I would really love if they dumped some resources into a TU that would enable theater in SP.. I just really cannot fathom a modern Halo without it. I was really looking forward to snapping pics in the new environments, and especially of the new enemies. I really wanted to go in and absorb every detail on all the new characters, etc. =/
Plus I wanted to see some of the amazing screen shots people would take. Blah.
I think this has been covered, but did theater make the cut of SpOps?
Plus I wanted to see some of the amazing screen shots people would take. Blah.
I think this has been covered, but did theater make the cut of SpOps?
Hydranockz
Member
How does scoring factor in?
I can't agree with the timing part. I mean, look at siglemic doing speedruns for SM64. That game doesn't have a timer built in. Quite a lot of games get by just fine for speedrunning without a timer.
Poker Face
Member
As hitmon mentioned, scoring, in a lot of instances serves a confirmation of a kill. Important in a lot of runs. You should really ask Nok these questions.
As far as the sig reference, that's just absurd. Using a split program to have to record your runs while the last Halo game(s) had it built in is a crazy thing to defend. We still don't know for sure it was cut (just a couple posts in here) so I won't overreact here either, but saying "it's fine because you can just download something to track your time" after it's been available to them all these years is crazy, brah. Not to mention, Nintendo 64. Xbox 360.
Talk to Nok about it though... He can tell you why it matters better than I can.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
But for reals, what kind of asshole wears a shirt like that?
Is this journalistic integrity, Jeff? You were the last great bastion for us. You sold out.
Bregmann Roche
Member
The former Editor of Games for Windows Magazine, that's who!
But for reals, what kind of asshole wears a shirt like that?
Also: I can't get enough of that Baby Seals punctuation poster. I might print a copy and frame it.
I've said this before but Forge has been to me personally one of the greatest features added to Halo. Especially with the steady decline in stock Bungie gametypes and maps. Forge seems to have been made easier to build maps from scratch and to iterate on. The problem isn't Forge, it's the system in which the community maps make it to top. Sure, a full featured terrain and map building system would be amazing. We don't however know what sacrifices it would take in order to get that done. Because I've been so pleased with Forge over the years, I don't see how a full map editor is necessary. I can understand the frustration the people have with Forge though and how they would want a more robust editor.
I can speak for High Speed Halo (and will soon, going out now) but for starters, other communities like Fails of the Week, the Mythic groups (why have skulls? without theatre and scoring how can you prove you actually accomplished a SLASO run?), any of the Halo tricking, screenshot, or... fuck it, i'm getting worked up again...
Hydranockz
Member
I was asking about scoring because I honestly don't know. It's an open forum guys, just because I quoted one person doesn't mean someone else can't answer it too.
What am I defending? Dude says it would pretty much kill the community if they aren't in it. I said plenty of speedrunning communities exist for games with no such timer features. What does that defend exactly?
Edit: Wouldn't that info usually be tracked on bnet anyway? So where has it been said that the info won't/couldn't be tracked on Waypoint?
The P of Poland
Member
God, Jeff Green sold out.
His tshirt is hilarious.
Oh wow, I haven't even thought about how no theater effects those communities. sigh
I don't know what you want me to say.
Nok, I guess you should just get over it and do what other communities do and get a stopwatch and a video camera.
?
Lets just see what communities come out on the other end. We'll see what communities "are killed" if these rumors are accurate and then we can come back and see if any of these predictions are accurate.
What's so hard to comprehend? You have one game with an amazing map editor, but bad gameplay. On the other side, you have a average map editor, with (historically) great gameplay. Not taking PC gaming into account, I've seen no game bring both of these together.
It could be a multitude of reasons:
-Balancing gameplay takes up a lot of time, resources taken away from Forge, thus sending it to CA.
-The engine simply doesn't allow what most of you expect out of a map creator.
-If they sunk the time in to get Forge where you want it, the gameplay would more than likely suffer, just going off these other titles that have the great map tools.
It's easy to sit there & be an armchair critic and throw out "good enough" sarcasm, but the reality of it is, none of us know what decisions had to be made along the way, or exactly how smooth the games creation was to begin with. Or it could simply be that on the priority list, expanding Forge past what it's always been, simply wasn't in the cards this time.
I'm not agreeing with their decision, but I'm also not going to sit here & disrespect them when I have no knowledge of the reasons behind the choices.
GodlyPerfection
Member
I agree... what we have is perfectly sufficient. But I definitely think it could be better. In terms of maps floating to the top, there are a couple things that could help that, but it is mostly an internal affairs ordeal and how things are handled from a process standpoint. It is a matter of trial and error and hopefully we have all learned from the past and we work to make the process soo much better. I look forward to it for sure and hope that we can all evolve and get better as time goes on. A lot of it is trial and error... theory can only get the process so far. I'm ready for the next trial.
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
yup
Steelyuhas
Member
People have surmised this since the end of the E3 trailer.
Fake edit: What the fuck that pic doesn't have 'direct' in it.
Or a capture card.
Isn't that how Halo CE and 2 speedruns are done? And most other games?
Theater is a convenience for speedruns, it is not required.
Sure, losing it ain't nice but its not like its the end of the world. Expect for panoramas... though capture card and Blind skull could work, though what kind of panoramas one can take with those is somewhat limited.
I'd be interested to see how you'd feel if you were Nokyard.
Bregmann Roche
Member
I second this. Even if Reach's Forge had a color wheel for objects and full terrain editing, the biggest problem with Forge maps in MM would remain. Bungie/343 shoe-horned maps into playlists to which those maps were not tailored. 2v2 games on Enclosed are fun, gray fun, but fun all the same. 4v4 on Enclosed is either a clusterfuck or a long-range, boring standoff.
MLG Forge maps are generally well made to begin with, but to steal a term from 343, the MLG maps are also all "purpose-built" for that playlist. With fewer Forge maps overall, and closer attention to what map should go into which playlist, the gray experience in Reach Matchmaking could have been much less frustrating.
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