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Halo |OT14| They call it Halo

F

Fuchsdh

Member
Overdoziz said:
Most of the Forerunner structures look great, but I'm really not into the entire circular theme some of the Forerunner structures and interiors have in Halo 4. I mean, I get it because the Halo rings are circular too, but it feels so out of place with Forerunner structures usually having straight lines.

I felt the same with Anniversary where they from this:


To this:


Such a weird looking wheel... thing.
Click to expand...

The wheel thing didn't really bother me. The difference from CEA to Halo 4 is remarkably stark, all things considered. Changing everything to a sort of gunmetal and lacquered look along with the use of circular motifs in the level design did feel to me like too much of a step away from the old language established to cement the difference between Human-Forerunner-Covenant. The only parts I really felt at home in Halo 4 were on "Reclaimer" right before you meet the Librarian (while a bit busy it really felt like harkened back to the Library's vaulted corridors) and on Forerunner (the side tunnels reminded me of AotCR's chasm connectors.)

I personally would have preferred a style closer to what we saw for CEA and the Anniversary map packs (love the passages on High Noon) but that's how I feel about most of Halo 4, really.

On the scale of 1-10, with 1 being no change and 10 being Halo 4, I'd rather have been closer to a 5. Keep the stuff we know mostly the same (FUD, Chief's armor, Sentinels and Covies, some of the architectural language) and go for broke on things we don't have a visual language for--I think overall the Prometheans do a good job of looking Forerunner-inspired while still different from what we saw before to emphasize that they aren't the Sentinels.) Likewise the Infinity, the Shotgun, the Railgun all feel like fairly natural evolutions of where we left the UNSC and how they've adapted--the RC Warthog, not so much :p
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
TheOddOne said:
Anikka Albrite. LAWD.
Click to expand...
I already know.
nEBlMRA.png
 
H

HTupolev

Member
enzo_gt said:
I haven't played Anniversary, but that structure is blasphemous right there and more deviant of the Forerunner aesthetic than anything else I've seen.
Click to expand...
Not heavy on the tron lines, vaguelly "metal/stone"-like material. And even Halo 1 has sparse placement of Forerunner circleish stuff (like in multiple places on AotCR).

IMO that structure looks substantially more Bungie Forerunner than much of the stuff in Anniversary's campaign (that wheel thing is on the FF map, not the Halo level) and especially Halo 4.

Fuchsdh said:
The wheel thing didn't really bother me. The difference from CEA to Halo 4 is remarkably stark, all things considered. Changing everything to a sort of gunmetal and lacquered look along with the use of circular motifs in the level design did feel to me like too much of a step away from the old language established to cement the difference between Human-Forerunner-Covenant. The only parts I really felt at home in Halo 4 were on "Reclaimer" right before you meet the Librarian (while a bit busy it really felt like harkened back to the Library's vaulted corridors) and on Forerunner (the side tunnels reminded me of AotCR's chasm connectors.)
Click to expand...
The corridors on Reclaimer are at least geometrically similar to some of the older stuff, and while the materials were very much different, it had a very nice look and that "ancient" feel.
 
U

User 73706

Banned
HTupolev said:
Supposing that the game actually supported those things nicely, why do you want the forging modes to be presented as separate?
Click to expand...

It's so that you don't get overloaded with all the features at once. Additionally, it means 343 isn't stuck trying to cram three modes' worth of features into a single game mode. Compare doodling on paper, scanning the picture, and digital post-processing.
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
Fuchsdh said:
I personally would have preferred a style closer to what we saw for CEA and the Anniversary map packs (love the passages on High Noon) but that's how I feel about most of Halo 4, really.

On the scale of 1-10, with 1 being no change and 10 being Halo 4, I'd rather have been closer to a 5. Keep the stuff we know mostly the same (FUD, Chief's armor, Sentinels and Covies, some of the architectural language) and go for broke on things we don't have a visual language for--I think overall the Prometheans do a good job of looking Forerunner-inspired while still different from what we saw before to emphasize that they aren't the Sentinels.) Likewise the Infinity, the Shotgun, the Railgun all feel like fairly natural evolutions of where we left the UNSC and how they've adapted--the RC Warthog, not so much :p
Click to expand...
In true annoying nerd fan style, I'll never forge CEA for those god awful rails on the ring and the ring in general.

But I strongly agree with that last paragraph.
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
Infinity Slayer on Relay is so dumb. There are almost all heavy weapons on this small map in the pool.

Isn't really fun if a team consists of Binary Rifle, Fuel rod gun, Beam Rifle and Incernator Cannon?

edit: in short: Inifnity slayer is bad.
 
H

HTupolev

Member
Wahrer Machine said:
It's so that you don't get overloaded with all the features at once. Additionally, it means 343 isn't stuck trying to cram three modes' worth of features into a single game mode.
Click to expand...
But you said these modes would be able to be fluidly transitioned between; they're basically one mode anyway. Why clutter the menu?

Compare doodling on paper, scanning the picture, and digital post-processing.
Click to expand...
Aren't modern tablet platforms trying to remove the overhead of those and combine them into a unified environment?
 
K

Karl2177

Member
Are the small map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Jetpack exists? Prime example: Jetpack on Lockout. It's shit. We know Lockout is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a small map where Jetpack wasn't all kinds of broken.

Are the large map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because the DMR exists? Prime example: DMR on Coagulation. It's shit. We know that Coagulation is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a large map where the DMR wasn't all kinds of broken.

Are the map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Active Camo AA exists? Prime example: Active Camo AA on Valhalla. It's shit. We know that Valhalla is good. We played that stuff in Halo 3. Someone, please name me a map where the Camo AA wasn't all kinds of broken.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
Karl2177 said:
Are the small map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Jetpack exists? Prime example: Jetpack on Lockout. It's shit. We know Lockout is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a small map where Jetpack wasn't all kinds of broken.

Are the large map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because the DMR exists? Prime example: DMR on Coagulation. It's shit. We know that Coagulation is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a large map where the DMR wasn't all kinds of broken.

Are the map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Active Camo AA exists? Prime example: Active Camo AA on Valhalla. It's shit. We know that Valhalla is good. We played that stuff in Halo 3. Someone, please name me a map where the Camo AA wasn't all kinds of broken.
Click to expand...
They're really bad.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Karl2177 said:
Are the small map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Jetpack exists? Prime example: Jetpack on Lockout. It's shit. We know Lockout is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a small map where Jetpack wasn't all kinds of broken.

Are the large map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because the DMR exists? Prime example: DMR on Coagulation. It's shit. We know that Coagulation is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a large map where the DMR wasn't all kinds of broken.

Are the map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Active Camo AA exists? Prime example: Active Camo AA on Valhalla. It's shit. We know that Valhalla is good. We played that stuff in Halo 3. Someone, please name me a map where the Camo AA wasn't all kinds of broken.
Click to expand...

This has always been my belief. I don't necessarily believe in bad maps tbh. Take a map like Longshore, put it in Halo 1's sandbox and you suddenly have a fun (or at least more fun) map.

Halo 1's sandbox on any map would be fun. Great gameplay overshadows everything else IMO, but of course there are exceptions.
 
U

User 73706

Banned
HTupolev said:
But you said these modes would be able to be fluidly transitioned between; they're basically one mode anyway. Why clutter the menu?

Aren't modern tablet platforms trying to remove the overhead of those and combine them into a unified environment?
Click to expand...

Fluid transition would be equivalent to starting a new round on the menu. You have to keep in mind that no matter how good next gen tech optimization is, we're going to need more room than it can offer pretty quickly along. And yes, while that is true, it ultimately boils down to a matter of choice. If you allow three separate modes, you're giving them each their own amount of of memory, UI space and whatnot.

Here's a slightly better analogy. You have one kid right now named Jorge and live in apartment complex X, building 360. It's a decent life but he's outgrowing his room and thinks you're smothering him with attention. You get an opportunity to move to building 720, which has significantly more room than the past. You take the offer and Jorge gets plenty of room, and you can finally have two more kids - Wilder and Carrie. In this new house, they each have their own rooms, meaning they have all the space and freedom they want and then some in case they ever want to get a different bed, a bigger TV or put posters on the wall. If Carrie wants to have a friend over, she can play with them in her room without bothering the others. If you tried making them all live in the same room, not only are you stepping on eggshells trying not to piss the other two off, but suddenly it becomes a lot more difficult to manage the three compared to just walking down the hall to talk to them on an individual basis.

It would just be a measure of safety, and if they're all a matter of resetting a round in the first place, I don't see why it would be an issue compared to trying to cram them all into a universal mode.

Karl2177 said:
Are the small map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Jetpack exists? Prime example: Jetpack on Lockout. It's shit. We know Lockout is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a small map where Jetpack wasn't all kinds of broken.

Are the large map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because the DMR exists? Prime example: DMR on Coagulation. It's shit. We know that Coagulation is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a large map where the DMR wasn't all kinds of broken.

Are the map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Active Camo AA exists? Prime example: Active Camo AA on Valhalla. It's shit. We know that Valhalla is good. We played that stuff in Halo 3. Someone, please name me a map where the Camo AA wasn't all kinds of broken.
Click to expand...

And as the exception that proves the rule, Waterworks would be fucking amazing with Halo 4's sandbox. Ample DMR cover, ordnance and stalagmites. MANTISES.
 
F

Fotos

Member
Does anyone have a code for the Locust Helmet in Halo 4 that they would like to give me? I would greatly appreciate it... :)
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
UNKNOWN iXi said:
This has always been my belief. I don't necessarily believe in bad maps tbh. Take a map like Longshore, put it in Halo 1's sandbox and you suddenly have a fun (or at least more fun) map.
Click to expand...

Well, that's probably because it's Hang Em High.

Longshore was an awesome map overall. Not because it was a rebuild of HeH, but the interactivity, the layout, the feel, and it was awesome for objective. It was just a shame that Microsoft sat on it for so long. It never got the respect it deserved because it came out so late in Halo 3's run.

If Longshore had come out as intended - in later 2008 as part of the Mythic collection - I think I would have looked back on Halo 3 more fondly. On the other hand, I probably wouldn't have thought of Citadel as "a Sandbox Crypt map made by Bungie as an official map". The layout of Citadel just reminded me of various Sandbox Crypt variants that came out before it.
 
N

NOKYARD

Member
Fabalon said:
Does anyone have a code for the Locust Helmet in Halo 4 that they would like to give me? I would greatly appreciate it... :)
Click to expand...

Does anyone have the pre-order code for the Delta Wing emblem background?

I'm at SR129 and i have not yet unlocked the fucking
-now i'm on the 'fuck' count meta list-
emblem BACKGROUND i used in Halo 3, ODST, and Reach.
 
S

Sr Kitsune

Member
Not sure if posted..

(As far as I know he was a Multiplayer Designer in... Gears of War 3 and Judgement [Not sure at all] He's now a Multiplayer Designer in 343 industries)
 
K

Kuroyume

Banned
Karl2177 said:
Are the small map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Jetpack exists? Prime example: Jetpack on Lockout. It's shit. We know Lockout is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a small map where Jetpack wasn't all kinds of broken.
Click to expand...

There are hardly any true small (non-Forge) maps in Reach. It hasn't been important to the devs for a while now.

Karl2177 said:
Are the large map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because the DMR exists? Prime example: DMR on Coagulation. It's shit. We know that Coagulation is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a large map where the DMR wasn't all kinds of broken.
Click to expand...

Hemmorhage isn't a Coagulation remake. It's some kind of mix between Blood Gulch and Coagulation. It's also a FORGE remake which means the likelihood of it not sucking was .000000000000000000000000000000000001% (and that's being generous.) Vehicles respawned on that map every minute. It spawns four warthogs, four mongoose, two revenants (which is what really made that map miserable), two wraiths, and two ghosts... And at one time I believe it spawned tanks. HELLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOO VEHICLE OVERKILL MUCH? No, DMR ruins that map. Just the DMR. Not the shitty Blood Gulch bases. Not the fact that you're move like you're making your way through knee-high molasses. Not the fact that the map was waaaaaaaaay bigger than Coagulation. Or the AAs. It was the DMR that made that map bad.

Btw, DMR has bloom in Reach.

Karl2177 said:
Are the map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Active Camo AA exists? Prime example: Active Camo AA on Valhalla. It's shit. We know that Valhalla is good. We played that stuff in Halo 3. Someone, please name me a map where the Camo AA wasn't all kinds of broken.
Click to expand...

Well they sucked in Reach because they were made to fill the multiplayer and single player... And the ALL the AA's ruin them. And Valhalla sucked in H3 too. Even before H4 came out many of us warned you people that Ragnarok was going to suck. Because if you're remaking shit you're going to get shit.
 
B

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Deadly Paw said:
They're not supposed to be good news... just potentially bad news. (I've hope it will be for the good)

In a way, he is in sync with 343 industries. After all, the population decline between Gears 3 and Halo 4 is, similar, sadly.
Click to expand...

I've been drawing the Gears 3/Halo 4 parallel for a long time now. That's exactly what I'm getting at.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
Not going to discredit the guy too soon, I'll take the wait and see approach. You never know how he might be more in sync with what we want.
 
S

Sr Kitsune

Member
FyreWulff said:
Gears 2 spoiled me. I didn't want to play unless it was 20x multiplier for EXP.
Click to expand...

Just 20x?

They will have to do a 31x again this Halloween...

Why 343 don't do something like that for Reach? not 31x, something like x3
43
would be perfect to bring friends to play with.

vvvv the pre-bolshot
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Zeouterlimits said:
In true annoying nerd fan style, I'll never forge CEA for those god awful rails on the ring and the ring in general.

But I strongly agree with that last paragraph.
Click to expand...

I think the environments for the most part were good and the Covenant were a nice compromise with Reach while hewing a little closer to the trilogy; the human characters were a little weaker (should have pushed towards H3 rather than Reach IMO).

But yeah, the ring and things like turning transparent materials opaque are just kind of odd, especially since 343i gave them a lot of (good) feedback on not changing a lot and they did things like fixing the Chief.

Overall I think I really prefer some of the environment work in CEA over 4--you could say the environments were over the top and colorful but I loved the richness of it, especially after Reach.

I've been meaning to write up a long piece on visual continuity at some point, dunno if it's FUD-worthy material, but then I can just link to it instead of repeating myself about these things.
 
T

Tzeentch

Member
Kuroyume said:
AAs and perks are here to stay.
Click to expand...
Pretty much, they about knock themselves out with all the back-patting they do in that recent Spartan Ops video so I doubt their MP team is different.

Maybe they'll release a new interview after the second map pack and we can see if Kiki Wolfkill can undo even more buttons on her shirt and they can talk about all these awesome watercooler moments and how the fans are just clamoring for more and how the only bad thing is that they just don't have more 343i products to sell.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Karl2177 said:
Are the small map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Jetpack exists? Prime example: Jetpack on Lockout. It's shit. We know Lockout is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a small map where Jetpack wasn't all kinds of broken.

Are the large map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because the DMR exists? Prime example: DMR on Coagulation. It's shit. We know that Coagulation is good. We played that stuff in Halo 2. Someone, please name me a large map where the DMR wasn't all kinds of broken.

Are the map designs in Reach and Halo 4 really bad, or are they just bad because Active Camo AA exists? Prime example: Active Camo AA on Valhalla. It's shit. We know that Valhalla is good. We played that stuff in Halo 3. Someone, please name me a map where the Camo AA wasn't all kinds of broken.
Click to expand...

You have to design maps for the given sandbox in that game. So yes, if a map doesn't take the games sandbox elements into account, then it is a bad map design.
 
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