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Halo |OT14| They call it Halo

Against my better judgment, I hope 343 sees the numbers and realizes that perhaps the way forward is to not emulate CoD every step of the way. Get rid of the loadouts and random weapon drops, invest in an engine that actually allows players to pick up dropped power weapons instead of them despawning almost immediately. Get back to an even playing ground, with a good starting weapon. Allow crazy amounts of customization in custom games, and have a fuckton of gametypes available, which you can rotate in and out of matchmaking every once in a while. Bring back Halo like it was, or at least something closer to it than whatever the hell Halo 4 was supposed to be.

The fun of Halo isn't in getting better equipment as you go along. It's in getting together with some friends, and playing some crazy stuff online.

Even is Halo 4 was the perfect Halo like HaloGAF wants, I doubt it would have changed Halo's online population. I think that the Halo would have declined in popularity, regardless of what Halo 4 would turn out to be.

Halo 4 as it is right now doesn't play like a traditional Halo game. It's much noob friendlier than any prior Halo and honestly, anyone could have fun with it. I say could because the people that refuse to be amused by Halo 4 are the ones that are disappointed in the fact that Halo 4 didn't turn out as they expected it to be. If anything, current Halo 4 should be very popular online because it's relatively easy compared to prior Halo games and it's 'flashier'. It's a mix between CoD and Crysis.

The perfect Halo game, or the fixed for Halo 4, as proposed by most people here would be one of the most boring games ever for casual play, but perfect for MLG.

I think that people are simply fatigued of Halo. Put the franchise is the freezer, invest in a new IP and do another Halo in 3-4 years.
 

Havok

Member
Is there any way to get H4 screenshots in your PC without modding tools? I want to make a H4 version of this and I want to star doing some tests:

http://files.bungie.org/gabotron_spartancollage.jpg

I miss Wu :(
It's pretty easy if you've got a USB stick and a PC. You'll need Horizon and the Halo 4 Screenshot Extraction tool. It's pretty self-explanatory - put the screenshots on the USB stick from your 360, extract the screenshot file using Horizon on your PC, then extract the image from the file Horizon spits out using the Screenshot Extraction tool. Extraction.
 

MaxRealflugel

Neo Member
I don't really have any complaints with weapon drops.

I'm a pretty average player. And if I try to be too adventurous in a match I end up dead very quickly.

Halo 4 allows me to know my limits without hindering my experience or, more importantly, anyone elses.

I'm good at supporting other players. And I don't mind them taking my ordnance drops. I'd rather a more compitent and capable player took a power weapon than a bumbling flapper like me.

Now I tend to hang back a little, use the sniper rifle sometimes, drive a warthog, be the gunner, defend the base, support an attack, use my plasma pistol on an annoying banshee. And that suits me and my fellow players just fine. Because any kills I make all add up to an ordnance drop, and I'm more than happy to share the spoils of war with a better player, or use it to hold some valuable turf or provide strength in depth for the team.

Previous Halos didn't cater for this. And as a result, I would have to go charging in and hope for the best. And all that did was lower our team score and raise that of the opposition.

Halo 4 is a win-win to me when it comes to ordnance and "perks".
 

FyreWulff

Member
In other words unreliable as far as hard numbers are concerned? We want total unique user in 24hrs. I would imagine only MS has those numbers.

Bungie.net had them for Halo 3 , ODST, and Reach. 343 has yet to show those numbers on their site, making it guesswork to compare the games.
 
The perfect Halo game, or the fixed for Halo 4, as proposed by most people here would be one of the most boring games ever for casual play, but perfect for MLG.

Even in the older games, there was a distinction between MLG and casual slayer. One of the most...troubling trends to emerge out of Halo 4 is that what was considered standard elements in Halo games of the past are now what's considered "pro."
 
Even is Halo 4 was the perfect Halo like HaloGAF wants, I doubt it would have changed Halo's online population. I think that the Halo would have declined in popularity, regardless of what Halo 4 would turn out to be.

Halo 4 as it is right now doesn't play like a traditional Halo game. It's much noob friendlier than any prior Halo and honestly, anyone could have fun with it. I say could because the people that refuse to be amused by Halo 4 are the ones that are disappointed in the fact that Halo 4 didn't turn out as they expected it to be. If anything, current Halo 4 should be very popular online because it's relatively easy compared to prior Halo games and it's 'flashier'. It's a mix between CoD and Crysis.

The perfect Halo game, or the fixed for Halo 4, as proposed by most people here would be one of the most boring games ever for casual play, but perfect for MLG.

I think that people are simply fatigued of Halo. Put the franchise is the freezer, invest in a new IP and do another Halo in 3-4 years.

I would be ok with this, but far chance of it happening. Halo 4 made them a shit ton of money, they're going to milk it for all it's worth. And as long as Microsoft spend a trillion dollars on marketing (not that I'm complaining, Forward Unto Dawn is marketing done wayyyy right) people will probably continue to buy it. I guess we'll see come E3.

Even in the older games, there was a distinction between MLG and casual slayer. One of the most...troubling trends to emerge out of Halo 4 is that what was considered standard elements in Halo games of the past are now what's considered "pro."

Aside from feature absences and bugs and other non gameplay related design choices, this pretty much hits the nail on the head. Its like being forced to eat steak with ketchup. Doubles Pro is like the only gametype that is even close to what we now call pro/classic, of which ALL playlists and gametypes featured in previous Halo games. I miss it...
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Even in the older games, there was a distinction between MLG and casual slayer. One of the most...troubling trends to emerge out of Halo 4 is that what was considered standard elements in Halo games of the past are now what's considered "pro."

Right. That's pretty strange. Hoping to work on a "Classic" Playlist.
 
343 isn't confident like Bungie was. They need to start making a game they want rather than make a game on what consumers think they want. Then Halo will be back.
 

Talents

Banned
343 isn't confident like Bungie was. They need to start making a game they want rather than make a game on what consumers think they want. Then Halo will be back.

They did make a game they want, they've said they wanted it to be their Halo before, and look what happened.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Right. That's pretty strange. Hoping to work on a "Classic" Playlist.
Q4dtMSUl.jpg

+ shadows
 

TheOddOne

Member
Maybe it's that they have too many cooks in the kitchen. There is bound to be somebody who knows what the core is, but also knows how to improve instead of redesigning it. I guess that guy must get crushed during meetings. I can already see him sitting there thinking "I know people are going to hate this". That poor soul. RIP Halo.
 
They did make a game they want, they've said they wanted it to be their Halo before, and look what happened.

I really don't believe that. 343 seemed to go the safe route multiplayer wise. No matter the quality of Halo 4, they were going to say the same comments for marketing.
 
Even in the older games, there was a distinction between MLG and casual slayer. One of the most...troubling trends to emerge out of Halo 4 is that what was considered standard elements in Halo games of the past are now what's considered "pro."

Yes, but older Halo's are really, really outdated gameplay wise to the casual player. For example, trueskill in Halo 3 was pretty great. Noobs got paired with noobs, pro's with pro's. If Halo 4 had the same foundation Halo 3 had, people would start with AR, run to the nearest BR and play. In Halo 3 there was basically one weapon, which was the BR and and the AR was a filler untill you got the AR. The AR itself was useless for anything other than AR+Melee. The other weapons in Halo 3 aren't worth mentionning because they were useless.

Those game mechanics are simply outdated in 2012. You need some fort of killstreak to reward the player, you need stronger non-precision weapons (the AR in Halo 4 is perfect), you need more relevant weapons etc. etc.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Should I know what map that is?
3Js8GOA.png

Yes, but older Halo's are really, really outdated gameplay wise to the casual player. For example, trueskill in Halo 3 was pretty great. Noobs got paired with noobs, pro's with pro's. If Halo 4 had the same foundation Halo 3 had, people would start with AR, run to the nearest BR and play. In Halo 3 there was basically one weapon, which was the BR and and the AR was a filler untill you got the AR. The AR itself was useless for anything other than AR+Melee. The other weapons in Halo 3 aren't worth mentionning because they were useless.

Those game mechanics are simply outdated in 2012. You need some fort of killstreak to reward the player, you need stronger non-precision weapons (the AR in Halo 4 is perfect), you need more relevant weapons etc. etc.
Onzin.
 
Yes, but older Halo's are really, really outdated gameplay wise to the casual player. For example, trueskill in Halo 3 was pretty great. Noobs got paired with noobs, pro's with pro's. If Halo 4 had the same foundation Halo 3 had, people would start with AR, run to the nearest BR and play. In Halo 3 there was basically one weapon, which was the BR and and the AR was a filler untill you got the AR. The AR itself was useless for anything other than AR+Melee. The other weapons in Halo 3 aren't worth mentionning because they were useless.

Those game mechanics are simply outdated in 2012. You need some fort of killstreak to reward the player, you need stronger non-precision weapons (the AR in Halo 4 is perfect), you need more relevant weapons etc. etc.

I disagree with a lot in your post, but I think you're misunderstanding the point of my reply which was to call out the false equivalence you made. The presence of standard elements of past Halo games does not automatically equate to "MLG." Even under those settings there's a great divide between "casual" and "pro."
 

TheOddOne

Member
Yes, but older Halo's are really, really outdated gameplay wise to the casual player. For example, trueskill in Halo 3 was pretty great. Noobs got paired with noobs, pro's with pro's. If Halo 4 had the same foundation Halo 3 had, people would start with AR, run to the nearest BR and play. In Halo 3 there was basically one weapon, which was the BR and and the AR was a filler untill you got the AR. The AR itself was useless for anything other than AR+Melee. The other weapons in Halo 3 aren't worth mentionning because they were useless.

Those game mechanics are simply outdated in 2012. You need some fort of killstreak to reward the player, you need stronger non-precision weapons (the AR in Halo 4 is perfect), you need more relevant weapons etc. etc.
confused.gif


I uh.. I uh... this post.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I disagree with a lot in your post, but I think you're misunderstanding the point of my reply which was to call out the false equivalence you made. The presence of standard elements of past Halo games does not automatically equate to "MLG." Even under those settings there's a great divide between "casual" and "pro."

And as evinced here, what constitutes "pro" is a pretty wide gulf (motion trackers, what weapons are allowed on the maps, etc.)
 

Amazing Mic

Neo Member
Curious as to what the community will moan about if they do get "old Halo" and the numbers don't go up significantly, if at all.

It is fine to want old Halo, but I cringe every time I see population numbers as the argument championed. It is completely short-sighted and I imagine does very little to advance the cause.
 
And as evinced here, what constitutes "pro" is a pretty wide gulf (motion trackers, what weapons are allowed on the maps, etc.)

:| It's probably my fault, but you misunderstood my post. I wasn't designating two sets of settings, but rather a scale between the two. That under the old settings, there were more casual settings and more "pro" settings. My whole point was to say that the presence of older elements of Halo game does not automatically make the game "pro," and with the advent of Halo 4, the term has shifted meaning from what it once was, and I think that's troubling.
 
Where are the people who said global ordnance would open up maps, change up the matches etc. Where are these great new battles happening wherever new ordnance randomly spawns on the map? They're not happening.

When they unveiled Global Ordnance in the GI article last year, we didn't really understand anything about its eventual execution, so most things discussed were speculative. I can say that personally I was open to the idea, but I imagined a much different system, a system where specific power weapons would spawn regularly, but their spawn location would vary between mathematically determined neutral points based on player vectors, akin to the player spawning system.

Instead we have random power weapons spawning in random locations at random intervals. We have waypoints that appear late, that sometimes don't appear at all, sometimes report the wrong item, and sometimes persist after the item has been removed. Then we have a player perk that gives advanced notice for these unpredictable, unreliable weapon spawns, which coupled with the aforementioned inconsistencies, only serves to further complicate the game. Then of course we have Personal Ordnance, a mechanic ripped unabashedly from Call of Duty 2009+ that completely fucks any semblance of power weapon control.

Drop the Pro moniker, and continue to give us options to play the time-tested classic style of Halo game we enjoyed for a decade.
 
Yes, but older Halo's are really, really outdated gameplay wise to the casual player. For example, trueskill in Halo 3 was pretty great. Noobs got paired with noobs, pro's with pro's. If Halo 4 had the same foundation Halo 3 had, people would start with AR, run to the nearest BR and play. In Halo 3 there was basically one weapon, which was the BR and and the AR was a filler untill you got the AR. The AR itself was useless for anything other than AR+Melee. The other weapons in Halo 3 aren't worth mentionning because they were useless.

Those game mechanics are simply outdated in 2012. You need some fort of killstreak to reward the player, you need stronger non-precision weapons (the AR in Halo 4 is perfect), you need more relevant weapons etc. etc.

What are you talking about?

The Sword
The Sniper
The Mauler
The Shotgun
The Rockets
The Spartan Laser

All of these weapons people actively tried to obtain over the BR. The AR is a bad weapon for competitive games because it rewards spray and pray over precision. Rewarding people for not having precise aiming skills is the equivalent of giving every one who ran a race a gold medal. Its bullshit tactics that reward the bad and then they never feel the need to improve.

Killstreaks could work fine in Halo but the implementation sucks. They need to only be applicable to your current life and they need to be scaled back in power. How about if you get 5 kills you have the choice between restocking 50% of ammo, using an AA like ProVis or spawning a middle tier weapon in front of you.

10 Kills same choice, AA lasts a bit longer, Ammo restock is 100%, Spawnable weapon is something like a Grenade launcher.

15 Kills? AA lasts twice as long as ProVis in Halo 4. Ammo Restock is 100%, Spawnable weapon is a power weapon.

The key element is this resets when you die. So everybody and their uncle wont have a binary rifle 2 mins into a game.

Ordnance system gets canned and replaced by a shocking new idea. Weapons on Map with spawn timers.

Loadouts need to go. At the very least they need to revert back to Halo Reach style but with AA's now relegated to only being killstreak rewards they do not have a place.

People say Halo needed these changes to keep its audience but everything we have as evidence directly contradicts that. Halo 3 was doing well and pulling large numbers. Since Halo Reach the population has been in decline.

Curious as to what the community will moan about if they do get "old Halo" and the numbers don't go up significantly, if at all.

It is fine to want old Halo, but I cringe every time I see population numbers as the argument championed. It is completely short-sighted and I imagine does very little to advance the cause.

I don't play Halo 4 because it's not the Halo I grew to love. If they bring that Halo back I will return. That's a population increase. Many others feel the way I do.

The community does not care about population numbers that is something for Microsoft and 343i to worry about what they do care about is having a game they want to play and that is clearly not Reach or Halo 4. We have no cause to advance in reality the people lobbying for old halo will be ignored and 343i will "take in" community feedback and then produce the Halo they want to produce. They have spoken little to nothing about the back lash from fans and acknowledgement of the issues is something I doubt we will ever get.

All we want is a title we can play competitively with a reduced feature set and no bullshit getting in the way. Population is a clear indication that the changes 343i made did not improve halo to a level that people wanted to play.
 

Tawpgun

Member
When they unveiled Global Ordnance in the GI article last year, we didn't really understand anything about its eventual execution, so most things discussed were speculative. I can say that personally I was open to the idea, but I imagined a much different system, a system where specific power weapons would spawn regularly, but their spawn location would vary between mathematically determined neutral points based on player vectors, akin to the player spawning system.

I just assumed that weapons would spawn at different locations. As in rockets spawn in long hallway initially and then they spawn in sword room.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Why do people insist that keping the gameplay mostly same from one game to other would keep the population steady or growing? Is there evidence this works? Other than Call of Duty.
 
What are you talking about?

The Sword
The Sniper
The Mauler
The Shotgun
The Rockets
The Spartan Laser

All of these weapons people actively tried to obtain over the BR. The AR is a bad weapon for competitive games because it rewards spray and pray over precision. Rewarding people for not having precise aiming skills is the equivalent of giving every one who ran a race a gold medal. Its bullshit tactics that reward the bad and then they never feel the need to improve.

Killstreaks could work fine in Halo but the implementation sucks. They need to only be applicable to your current life and they need to be scaled back in power. How about if you get 5 kills you have the choice between restocking 50% of ammo, using an AA like ProVis or spawning a middle tier weapon in front of you.

10 Kills same choice, AA lasts a bit longer, Ammo restock is 100%, Spawnable weapon is something like a Grenade launcher.

15 Kills? AA lasts twice as long as ProVis in Halo 4. Ammo Restock is 100%, Spawnable weapon is a power weapon.

The key element is this resets when you die. So everybody and their uncle wont have a binary rifle 2 mins into a game.

Ordnance system gets canned and replaced by a shocking new idea. Weapons on Map with spawn timers.

Loadouts need to go. At the very least they need to revert back to Halo Reach style but with AA's now relegated to only being killstreak rewards they do not have a place.

People say Halo needed these changes to keep its audience but everything we have as evidence directly contradicts that. Halo 3 was doing well and pulling large numbers. Since Halo Reach the population has been in decline.

I agree, my post didn't have enough thought put into it.
 
Why do people insist that keping the gameplay mostly same from one game to other would keep the population steady or growing? Is there evidence this works? Other than Call of Duty.
There is a difference between evolving a game and revolutionizing a game.
One of the 343 designers said it best, that they were evolving the game.
Unfortunately, they were evolving the gameplay from Halo Reach, not the trilogy.
And Halo Reach was a revolution, not an evolution.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
I'm all for keeping the Infinity mode (at least slayer) in future games, just make it a separate playlist and bring back true team slayer and big team. I like the personal ordinance in that Fiesta kind of way, but it's a bit more competitive than Fiesta was even.

Get rid of global ordinance. The only time I'd accept global is if they had 2 power weapon options and they rotated in the exact same spawn spot or something.

I also don't mind loadouts, but they should be more restricted. I like being able to pick between DMR, Carbine, BR, and Light Rifle. Nice to have an AR as secondary too.

Leveling should be purely cosmetic again. I love unlocking armor and even weapon skins, but shouldn't be unlocking things that affect in-game play.
 
Why do people insist that keping the gameplay mostly same from one game to other would keep the population steady or growing? Is there evidence this works? Other than Call of Duty.

Halo 2 - Halo 3
Change up gameplay drastically
Halo Reach Population decline.
Halo 4 Population decline.

Fan feedback has been that they did not like the implemented changes and that they moved to far away from what made halo special.
 

Defect

Member
Those game mechanics are simply outdated in 2012. You need some fort of killstreak to reward the player, you need stronger non-precision weapons (the AR in Halo 4 is perfect), you need more relevant weapons etc. etc.

This thinking is why games are terrible now. Well at least shooters.

25275.jpg
 
No one's ever shown me anything definitive that Reach suffered a population decline from 3. Any stats I saw showed very similar numbers. And we still haven't seen a daily player stat for 4, and we don't even know how its concurrent player counter performs compared to the other games.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Halo 2 - Halo 3
Change up gameplay drastically
Halo Reach Population decline.
Halo 4 Population decline.

Fan feedback has been that they did not like the implemented changes and that they moved to far away from what made halo special.
What population decline? Didn't Halo 4 and Halo Reach sell at least around as much as Halo 3, if not more? You could argue that the series isn't growing as fast as it used to, but to say it's declining is a bit far-fetched. Unless you're talking about the peak population numbers which have zero context. I'm all for bashing Halo 4, but using arguments like this is just silly.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Yeah, on Over's note it's kind of hard to bash the Halo 4 changes when it sold phenomenally and reviewed very well. Population is one thing, but as I've beaten to death here there could be more to the population decline than just "we don't like the new additions."

Interesting for sure.
 
Sold phenomenally? How mich did Halo 4 sell? Keep in mind that Halo 3 launched when 360's userbase was almost half or less than half of what it is now.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Sold phenomenally? How mich did Halo 4 sell? Keep in mind that Halo 3 launched when 360's userbase was less almost half or less than half of what it is now.

Currently if the numbers are to be believed it's climbing towards the 8 million mark. Reach is just over 9 million currently.

EDIT: Exactly Over, 87 in 2012 is fantastic. Puts it up there with the best last year. Not to mention a brand new studio.
 
Currently if the numbers are to be believed it's climbing towards the 8 million mark. Reach is just over 9 million currently.

Based on what numbers?

Just speaking strictly about sales, I doubt it'll surpass Halo 3's numbers. Maybe Halo 5 or Halo 6 (first Halo game on the new console, last one in the trilogy, respectively).
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Based on what numbers?

Just speaking strictly about sales, I doubt it'll surpass Halo 3's numbers. Maybe Halo 5 or Halo 6 (first Halo game on the new console, last one in the trilogy, respectively).

Well, numbers that may or may not be 100% accurate, but the only numbers I can find. A site which must not be named. It still sold well in general though.
 
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