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Halo |OT18| We're Back Baby!

willow ve

Member
I still think they need to do a split series. It would work like this.

Halo # games = arena shooter, firefight, and campaign. No armor abilities or loadouts (perks, etc., all gone).

Halo ODST # games = class based shooter, multiplayer + firefight, no campaign. basically a mashup of COD and Battlefield set in the Halo universe.


This allows the studio to chase the COD crowd, please the long time Halo fans, and potentially pump out a "Halo" game once every year (or every 18 months).
 

Toxi

Banned
After completing the campaign with my friend, I was pretty unimpressed at the Prometheans; however, I think they could easily be improved to be fun enemies in a sequel.

  • Simplify their weapons and diversify the profiles so they're easier to identify. The Incinerator Cannon is the only one that really felt and looked unique for me. When I see a Brute with the Carbine or the Spiker or the Brute Shot, I recognize the weapon instantly; give the same sort of easy identification to the Forerunner Weapons.
  • Make the ranks clearer. The nice thing about the color-coded Covenant is that it's always clear which Covenant is which. You don't have to color code the Prometheans (Although that would be appreciated), but make their shapes clearly defined like the Brute Helmets in Halo 3.
  • Make the knights respond more to damage. They don't really flinch at all and feel lifeless as a result.
  • The main problem with Knight melee attacks is that it's really hard to see them coming. Give them a nice sound like the Elite bash "thwack" and give them more recognizable startup animations. It's really silly how when you approach a Knight, there's no sound and you just die and go flying.
  • Have them use the teleport in smarter ways instead of just spamming it to escape or teleport charging you. Maybe have them often teleport behind cover or behind your lines.
  • Give them giant mechs. I understand they don't have vehicles to differentiate them from the Covenant, but they need something like the Scarab bosses in Halo 3.
  • Don't use the Crawlers like Infection forms or Grunts, use the Crawlers like Crawlers. The only time I had fun fighting Crawlers was when they were crawling on the trees and I had to pay attention to other directions besides forward; I'd like to see more of that.
  • Also, why weren't there Sentinels fighting alongside them? I'm not sure Sentinels would have improved them as enemies, but it's kinda weird that the Forerunner tech enemies in other Halo games weren't fighting alongside the Forerunner tech enemies in Halo 4.

I dunno, all of this has probably already been said in the thread, I'm just late to the party and I really felt like the Prometheans were wasted potential as enemies. I actually really liked the art design for them, so seeing it wasted like that just bummed me. Sorry if I'm just being redundant.
 
Is anyone getting the Champions Bundle? On one hand I really dont want to support it, on the other hand I love the Pit.

It is so frustrating to go into Infinity and never see DLC maps. I don't know why I see Forge maps in there instead of Skyline etc. This will most likely be the last maps though so the dedicated playlist will mean I will actually get to play on it.

Genuinely not sure. I mean it's The Pit (The Pit!) but it's also Halo 4. That means Halo 4 toy sniper, Halo 4 no descope, Halo 4 nade trajectory, Halo 4 looking through walls, Halo 4 all sprint all the time. I've been playing Halo 3 and for the most part having a blast. Might wait for impressions here first. Plus I have to pay for that other map that has a swat switch.
 

TheOddOne

Member
FYI, most sequels are usually in production at before wrapping up the last game.

I.e. Killzone Shadow Fall started production in Dec 2010, while production of K3 was still being done.

jM4toSzBMmpjn.png
 

mo60

Member
After completing the campaign with my friend, I was pretty unimpressed at the Prometheans; however, I think they could easily be improved to be fun enemies in a sequel.

  • Simplify their weapons and diversify the profiles so they're easier to identify. The Incinerator Cannon is the only one that really felt and looked unique for me. When I see a Brute with the Carbine or the Spiker or the Brute Shot, I recognize the weapon instantly; give the same sort of easy identification to the Forerunner Weapons.
  • Make the ranks clearer. The nice thing about the color-coded Covenant is that it's always clear which Covenant is which. You don't have to color code the Prometheans (Although that would be appreciated), but make their shapes clearly defined like the Brute Helmets in Halo 3.
  • Make the knights respond more to damage. They don't really flinch at all and feel lifeless as a result.
  • The main problem with Knight melee attacks is that it's really hard to see them coming. Give them a nice sound like the Elite bash "thwack" and give them more recognizable startup animations. It's really silly how when you approach a Knight, there's no sound and you just die and go flying.
  • Have them use the teleport in smarter ways instead of just spamming it to escape or teleport charging you. Maybe have them often teleport behind cover or behind your lines.
  • Give them giant mechs. I understand they don't have vehicles to differentiate them from the Covenant, but they need something like the Scarab bosses in Halo 3.
  • Don't use the Crawlers like Infection forms or Grunts, use the Crawlers like Crawlers. The only time I had fun fighting Crawlers was when they were crawling on the trees and I had to pay attention to other directions besides forward; I'd like to see more of that.
  • Also, why weren't there Sentinels fighting alongside them? I'm not sure Sentinels would have improved them as enemies, but it's kinda weird that the Forerunner tech enemies in other Halo games weren't fighting alongside the Forerunner tech enemies in Halo 4.

I dunno, all of this has probably already been said in the thread, I'm just late to the party and I really felt like the Prometheans were wasted potential as enemies. I actually really liked the art design for them, so seeing it wasted like that just bummed me. Sorry if I'm just being redundant.
The knights get really angry sometimes when they are about to die.They also move backwards to.The watchers can sometimes activate forerunner turrents that will fight you.I also hated when the knights teleported.
 

Toxi

Banned
The knights get really angry sometimes when they are about to die.They also move backwards to.The watchers can sometimes activate forerunner turrents that will fight you.I also hated when the knights teleported.
I dunno, my thoughts are only based on one playthrough and I remember the knights just being bullet sponges.

You're probably right that any more teleporting would just be annoying.
 
After completing the campaign with my friend, I was pretty unimpressed at the Prometheans; however, I think they could easily be improved to be fun enemies in a sequel.

  • Simplify their weapons and diversify the profiles so they're easier to identify. The Incinerator Cannon is the only one that really felt and looked unique for me. When I see a Brute with the Carbine or the Spiker or the Brute Shot, I recognize the weapon instantly; give the same sort of easy identification to the Forerunner Weapons.
  • Make the ranks clearer. The nice thing about the color-coded Covenant is that it's always clear which Covenant is which. You don't have to color code the Prometheans (Although that would be appreciated), but make their shapes clearly defined like the Brute Helmets in Halo 3.
  • Make the knights respond more to damage. They don't really flinch at all and feel lifeless as a result.
  • The main problem with Knight melee attacks is that it's really hard to see them coming. Give them a nice sound like the Elite bash "thwack" and give them more recognizable startup animations. It's really silly how when you approach a Knight, there's no sound and you just die and go flying.
  • Have them use the teleport in smarter ways instead of just spamming it to escape or teleport charging you. Maybe have them often teleport behind cover or behind your lines.
  • Give them giant mechs. I understand they don't have vehicles to differentiate them from the Covenant, but they need something like the Scarab bosses in Halo 3.
  • Don't use the Crawlers like Infection forms or Grunts, use the Crawlers like Crawlers. The only time I had fun fighting Crawlers was when they were crawling on the trees and I had to pay attention to other directions besides forward; I'd like to see more of that.
  • Also, why weren't there Sentinels fighting alongside them? I'm not sure Sentinels would have improved them as enemies, but it's kinda weird that the Forerunner tech enemies in other Halo games weren't fighting alongside the Forerunner tech enemies in Halo 4.

I dunno, all of this has probably already been said in the thread, I'm just late to the party and I really felt like the Prometheans were wasted potential as enemies. I actually really liked the art design for them, so seeing it wasted like that just bummed me. Sorry if I'm just being redundant.

I agree entirely. The Prometheans need more variety and also need to be more easily distinguished from one another. On top of that, they feel and look like robot monsters which is exactly what they didn't want.

Knight have 'souls' of humans/forerunners, correct? Why not show this before you kill them? Get rid of the goblin Knight micro pilot creature and replace it with something more humanoid, perhaps a representation of the once living body is was created from.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Scott Warner already talked about the Knights problems.
"We had a number of concerns about the Forerunners that we thought went not completely according to plan and could be improved upon," 343 Industries design director Scott Warner told the audience at his GDC 2013 panel, "The Design of New Enemies for Halo 4," which discussed the design philosophies behind the game's new breed of bad guys.

First and foremost, communication issues between the design and artwork departments exacerbated problems early in the studio's existence – growing pains associated with starting a new company. "We were a brand new team at 343," Warner said. "You have to consider the challenge that we had was starting from zero people and going to about 340 before we shipped."

In a similar vein, the "absence of high level vision" on the various creatures' gameplay mechanics caused 343 to spend time developing ideas that would eventually prove fruitless: "It would have been easier for us to understand if we'd had more definition around these characters early on, as far as who they were." An early prototype build was shown as an example, in which two Promethean Knights balled themselves up like Samus and attacked Master Chief.

On a more practical, game design-oriented level, Warner admitted that Halo 4's enemies shipped with damage tuning and gameplay mechanics that were less than ideal. "The Watcher often encourages a one dimensional approach to those encounters," Warner said, "which we saw develop over time through using research and our own play testing. We knew it'd be a problem, [but] we didn't have a great solution for it before we shipped."

"The damage tooling for the characters," he continued, "we felt like we went a little bit too aggressive with this. When you fight the Watcher, there isn't really a good way to circumvent that interaction with him fast, you have to put a bunch of bullets in him – same way with the Knight. So that, over time, can tip the scale to where it's less fun to interact with him."

Interacting with the Prometheans also ended up being less interesting, at least from a storytelling and world building standpoint, than encounters with the Covenant have traditionally been, according to Warner. "The Covenant do a good job of telling you that you've surprised them, or they've got the drop on you, or they feel proud that they've taken you out; that they're scared," he said. "Our Prometheans don't do that very well, they're very – I hesitate to use the term 'robotic', but they tend to not show a lot of emotion or communicate their state very well in terms of what we'd like to do, what we think would be ideal for those characters. So that's one big area of improvement we're looking for as we move along with our character development in future games."
 
Studying the Promethean A.I.s in many playthroughs they're almost exactly what I wanted enemy A.I. to face in a Halo game b'cuz they took more skill to eliminate them.

In a way, Knights are just like Heretic Elites and a mix with Brutes with human weapons and Phasing, Crawlers as Grunts/Jackals (sorta), and Watchers as Engineers but with more support in Offense and Defense tactics within the A.I. group.

When you get consistent headshots the Knight's Helm split open exposing the luminescent skull indicating they're at their weakest point. The more damage done to a Knight or when you kill a Knight another will go temporarily Rogue and Lunge or Phase Run towards you. If they're weak sometimes they'll either keep spamming you or hide behind cover. Reach Elites get pissed and go Rogue after you take their shields down or kill a higher ranked A.I.

Variety is important. Not much cosmetic variety to differentiate one Knight from another at times. Some have flames. Some have spikes. Some have more orange markings. But they don't always stand out like Brutes or Elites do. In Halo 4, the Elites and Promethean Knights lacked a lot of communication that in previous Halos had more Body Language and Vocalizing before, during, and after battles.
 

Madness

Member
I still wish they stuck with designs closer to this:

MXKXfLW.jpg




Oh yeah.

I really wouldn't mind Knights turning into balls, it would add some good variety. Also, I wish they would have kept Watchers that picked up objects and threw them at you.. it would make them actually interesting and unique.

Plus they could take damage in ball mode as they're rolling around coming at you at fast speed. Would have been better than them teleporting every two seconds behind you or far away with scattershot or incineration cannon.

Watchers could pick them up to throw near you, you could shoot the watcher which would then drop the ball, possibly remove shields etc.

But I thought the end of Spartan Ops showed there won't be any prometheans anymore. It's a good thing because they were all poorly designed.

Crawlers who could shoot from a massive distance, crawl areas you can't get to, and require precision to shoot. Watchers that also require some sort of scoped/distance weapon and would fly away when shot with little to no damage indicators etc.
 
I still wish they stuck with designs closer to this:

MXKXfLW.jpg




Oh yeah.

I really wouldn't mind Knights turning into balls, it would add some good variety. Also, I wish they would have kept Watchers that picked up objects and threw them at you.. it would make them actually interesting and unique.

Yeah but it could contraditcs the Composer ability and it would reduce the knights to something born from quake or doom grotesque design.

I expected the knight being more than a robotic version of the covenant.

Did anyone saw the yellow promethean ? I think it was the most challenging version of the knight.
 

Mix

Member
Okay, so in the GDC talk, Josh Holms definitely tooted his own horn as far as how happy he was with the game. I have said it before and I'll say it again, Halo 4 is a good game, just not a great Halo game.
Holms also pointed out a lot of the problems that we all had with a lot of content as far as the games go, whether it be the terrible Promethean design or the lack of focus in a lot of areas in the game in general (Campaign, SpOps, Multiplayer, etc.).
When the handicap image came up I cringed and almost forgot I'd already ween it before. What the hell was he thinking with that.
Overall, I am hopeful for the next game in the series, although not just because of the panel. You have to show me progress, not just talk about it.
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
I wouldn't call Halo 4 a good game, honestly. It has some good qualities, but the package as a whole is not what it should be. Especially when you consider some of the people there. MP is leagues ahead of what it was at launch, but is still not any better than Reach was imo.

I would say the main team to praise would be the sustain team. There's some updates and changes I'd like made to MM, but as a whole there's been a lot of support.
 

Ghazi

Member
I wouldn't call Halo 4 a good game, honestly. It has some good qualities, but the package as a whole is not what it should be. Especially when you consider some of the people there. MP is leagues ahead of what it was at launch, but is still not any better than Reach was imo.

I would say the main team to praise would be the sustain team. There's some updates and changes I'd like made to MM, but as a whole there's been a lot of support.

Agreed!
 

Omni

Member
Halo 4 is a good game, just not a great Halo game.

I see this come up constantly and it still makes no sense to me. The problem is that 343i weren't trying to make any other game, they were trying to make a Halo game (hence the title). It doesn't matter if you put the game into some weird parallel universe where it has nothing to do with the Halo brand, fundamental aspects of the game are still broken, and as such, are bad.

Just my opinion or whatever
 

Fuchsdh

Member
It seems likely. I imagine the plot of Spartan Ops Season 2 was morphed into another medium since they said they had a roadmap planned for the future of the story. I hope it doesn't put too strong of a focus on Palmer, or if it does I hope they basically re-imagine her character (and the Spartan IVs).

If so, I imagine it will be ODST style- standalone SP with Halo 4 MP + new MP expansions. Hell, maybe even firefight, haha.

I don't see it happening, at least not as quick a turnaround as an Xbox One launch or 2014 title.


I see this come up constantly and it still makes no sense to me. The problem is that 343i weren't trying to make any other game, they were trying to make a Halo game (hence the title). It doesn't matter if you put the game into some weird parallel universe where it has nothing to do with the Halo brand, fundamental aspects of the game are still broken, and as such, are bad.

Just my opinion or whatever

I agree that elements of the multiplayer are weak. Doesn't make me think Halo 4 isn't a good game, "Halo"-branded or otherwise. I suppose the sentiment behind the "good game, not a good Halo game" thing is in my mind the idea that 343 did a great job for a freshman game, but that doesn't really count for much when you're taking over a highly successful and established franchise; "good for a first game" just doesn't cut it because we've been spoiled by excellence. You don't get the same leeway; it might be a little selfish but it's also the nature of entertainment.

Come to think of it though, I can't think of a whole lot of game franchises where the developer has changed between successful incarnations; usually the last game does poorly so they pick another studio or whatnot. Only game I can think of off the top of my head is the Spyro series, which took a nosedive after Insomniac Games decided they were done after Year of the Dragon.
 

Redford

aka Cabbie
I still think they need to do a split series. It would work like this.

Halo # games = arena shooter, firefight, and campaign. No armor abilities or loadouts (perks, etc., all gone).

Halo ODST # games = class based shooter, multiplayer + firefight, no campaign. basically a mashup of COD and Battlefield set in the Halo universe.


This allows the studio to chase the COD crowd, please the long time Halo fans, and potentially pump out a "Halo" game once every year (or every 18 months).

I like this very much.
 

Mix

Member
I see this come up constantly and it still makes no sense to me. The problem is that 343i weren't trying to make any other game, they were trying to make a Halo game (hence the title). It doesn't matter if you put the game into some weird parallel universe where it has nothing to do with the Halo brand, fundamental aspects of the game are still broken, and as such, are bad.

Just my opinion or whatever

I understand what you mean and why the statement might be an odd one to wrap your head around, especially if you disagree with it. What I mean is that, if you take apart Halo 4 part by part, it is a well made machine. The graphics a decent, the gameplay is okay and the campaign is decent. The aspects of the game such as the loadout system work, it's a balanced game (whether core Halo fans like the way its balanced if a different story) and it can hold a population of right round 20k. So, fundamentally, it's a good game. As a halo game, especially considering what make it a decent game, it falls short of the quality line that we expect out of a game in some of our most beloved franchise.
 

Ghazi

Member
I think at one point I was using an excerpt from "Lone Wolf" as my ringtone, I think it was after the part of the snares. Can't remember, but it was pretty badass when people called me, now I'm just using a Portal 2 one (Science is Fun).
 

malfcn

Member
On an older phone I had it tricked out with Slipknot and Tool ringtones that I cut and edited. But those files are long gone. Super In sounds pretty good, Super out isn't too bad.
 
People can bash the game to death be the same every year but they actually keep improving the core game every year and have more support than a first party developer by Microsoft.
 

belushy

Banned
Actually looks pretty decent. Colour me surprised.

Yeah, agreed. For some reason the sprinting pistol animation looks awesome to me. I don't really know why haha.

It will probably end up like crap though. I was excited for Blops 2. It is a great game, but it isn't my kind of game. Ghosts will probably be the same thing.


edit: By the way everybody, here is the archive of the Project Spark stream in case you missed it: http://www.twitch.tv/project_spark/b/446840120
 

wwm0nkey

Member
So I discovered the wonders of Halo 3 YELO maps for Halo CE....

Video

Seriously though I feel like Halo CE with OpenSauce on the PC meets all of HaloGAF requirements besides Matchmaking.

-1080p
-60FPS
-90FOV
-Better Sandbox
-Core Halo experience
-Halo 3 set-up (optional)

[This is different than the Halo 3 foundry map that had some Halo sandbox stuff in it]
 
They don't even change the sound effects
They did change one irritating reused sound effect when you're walking and sprinting.

From this Domination video it remindeds me of MW1 balance. MW3 base movement and overall gameplay. And more vocalization from the in game characters making callouts.
 
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