Halo: Reach.
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Halo: Reach.
I'd cosign. No bloom DMR was harder to use than any other utility weapon in any other online halo game.
Besides maybe halo 3 but that thing was harder to use for spread/latency reasons
No bloom DMR felt completely broken to me. It was very hard to miss a shot once you started shooting. Plus the magnetism was still quite high by memory - I can remember getting headshots even though my reticle was barely 'touching' the head.
admittedly once zero bloom slayer came around I was barely playing Reach and had moved on to BF3, so I'm probably completely wrong
though in comparison to 3 and 2, I guess overall Reach is the better choice.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Nice I could play with that for future titles. I was a fan of the anniversary TU DMR not so much zero bloom but that was still solid.
I wonder how dedicated servers are going to alter the weapons, aim assist or magnetism with Halo X1? It seems like a fresh start again? Hopefully launch settings have been through the ringer testing wise. Do we think hitscan will stay?
I reaaaally hope that hitscan goes. Sure, keep it on the sniper/splaser/whatever else... but keep it away from the "main" weapons like the DMR/BR.
Both Reach and Halo 4 are complete ping fests. You can't move anywhere without some jackass pinging you from the other side of the map - which of course really restricts player movement and promotes camping. A lot of it is due to that 3x scope on the DMR, but also because it's so simple to do so with any human weapon. Frustratingly easy.
Both Reach and Halo 4 are complete ping fests. You can't move anywhere without some jackass pinging you from the other side of the map - which of course really restricts player movement and promotes camping. A lot of it is due to that 3x scope on the DMR, but also because it's so simple to do so with any human weapon. Frustratingly easy.
Computer
Member
Bullet travel is the way to go with Halo five. The tech is there now to make it work. It adds a skill gap to weapons. Ever since hit scan has been in Halo any noob can land shots from across the map and it makes annoying as fuck game play. Constantly asking yourself who the hell is shooting me. Pls 343 all things that can make Halo 5 great and make you lots of moneys are cataloged in the Halo OT's data base for your convenience. You don't know Halo better then the fans so pay attention the the threads.
None of them are suitable for competitive play. The "best" being a relative term here, I would say the best online Halo game in terms of aim assist would be Halo 3 or Reach. However, the strafe is just as important as the aim assists are in terms of competitive viability, and none of the online Halo games have had appropriate levels of aim assist vs. strafe speed.
HitScan needs to go, especially with the promise of dedicated servers for Halo on Xbox One™.
Power Weapons that already have it should keep it though, unless 343 feels like making it rain Power Weapons again.
Oh and strafing/movement needs to play a much larger role in Halo on Xbox One™.
Power Weapons that already have it should keep it though, unless 343 feels like making it rain Power Weapons again.
Oh and strafing/movement needs to play a much larger role in Halo on Xbox One™.
NobleGundam
Banned
/dead
*Functionally flat
Yeah, true. I was super surprised that Ogre 2 chose Royal 2 and Snakebite. I mean, there isn't that many f/as that are interesting; many of the people you'd understand Ogre 2 teaming with are either in a solidified team (Ola) or are retired (Roy, Lunchbox, Walsh, Strongside.)
Cloud could fit, but Snakebite said in stream last night that he is pretty much done with competing. Also someone made a good point that the reason Ogre 2 is choosing now to comeback is that when it does come time for a 4v4 GC tournament, that teams will most likely choose people that they know are good at the game. Won't just expect people to pick up old pros just because they are veterans.
Is this really the case or are you joking here?
People want Hitscan gone and want bullet travel back?
Ok this was unexpected
Also Snakebite left Ogre 2 in the rain and teamed with Ninja... why would anybody play with snakebite right now? Did he played some insane customs lately? Again what I've seen of him in Halo 4 was worse than the sudds.
Ogre 2 hast get a good team or people that play insane under the right motivation. Naded or Neighbor .. idk.
Ok this was unexpected
Also Snakebite left Ogre 2 in the rain and teamed with Ninja... why would anybody play with snakebite right now? Did he played some insane customs lately? Again what I've seen of him in Halo 4 was worse than the sudds.
Ogre 2 hast get a good team or people that play insane under the right motivation. Naded or Neighbor .. idk.
Just jokes on 343 making maps functionally symmetrical
I was joking, but I feel as though the fact that you had to ask the question says myriads about the current state of the game.
Yep just saw this too. Poor Ogre 2 lol
And Snakebite is great. I think a lot of people just see a lot of potential in him. He was part of the Quo Reach squad that won an event. When he is dedicated he destroys. Still like 7 weeks until the event though, so it could change at anytime.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
I won't question that all the art assets were a huge leap ahead in quality, with plenty attention to detail.. that said, the overall art direction was a step back. The Covenant lost their unique identities, and saw significant pointless changes. Its a shame, a lot of the Covenant were very interesting and stand out before... now they're just monsters in cool armor.
squidhands
Member
The smaller islands are worse than the big one, but none of them are truly flat. Still, it's such a welcome addition to the meager forge offering that we got at launch.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
Am I the only one who likes the new look of the Covenant? (except for the elites, they need to go back to the way they were)
Yeah, I can see the resemblances to the Gears of War monsters, but we can still tell that grunts are grunts, jackals are jackals, and elites are elites.
the covenant redesign is the least of Halo 4's worries, anyway.
Yeah, I can see the resemblances to the Gears of War monsters, but we can still tell that grunts are grunts, jackals are jackals, and elites are elites.
the covenant redesign is the least of Halo 4's worries, anyway.
What do you like about them thats better from previous versions?
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Not dissing your opinion, but do you think if they had remained more faithful to their original designs but had Halo 4's attention to detail you would feel the same way? I'm honestly curious if you like em more since they just look more lifelike, and not because of the huge changes to their overall design. Personally I really hope we get Jackals and Grunts more faithful to their original iterations in future games.. I would love to see what 343 can do to bring em to life on next gen hardware.
It's amazing how nostalgia works, but playing Spartan Asaault I got goosebumps when fighting Elites. They move exactly like the CE ones when they run.
Prinz Eugn
Member
I just don't like that 343i completely changed what kind of animals the Covenant were, like the Grunts went from bugs to lizards, Jackals went from birds to lizards, and the Elites gave up their arm armor so you could be extra sure they were basically lizards.
YourExWife
Member
I wouldn't mind bullet drop getting added to the Sniper, something to make it a bit more challenging to use.
As for the second part, that's primarily because of the DMR's scope (in addition, when scoped in with the 3x, the aim assist was still fairly strong). Halo 2's BR didn't cause any issues for larger maps in the game and didn't promote any camping/cross map pinging. It was more difficult to hit further away shots because of the aim assist drop and the red reticle going away. At the same time it withdrew any randomness because there was practically no spread - which is great.
There's some who want the bubble shield back, so you know. Things.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
eh, it's a case by case basis, i miss how grunts looked previously, Gears of War can have their wretches back
I actually prefer the Godzilla jackals for whatever reason, i think their underbite thing they got going on looks properly menacing
I don't like the look of the elites at all, Halo 3 elites, please.
Prinz Eugn
Member
You shoulda been there Kaos, it was the quintessential XBL experience.
The Henery
Member
Yea hitscan can go with dedicated servers. Halo's CE and 3 are my favourite in the series and both happen to feature projectile primary weapons. No coincidence. Having to lead your shots based on range is more skillful and engaging. Hitscan feels necessary for p2p Halo 2 in 2004 but dedi's and 2014 broadband speeds should ensure a projectile based primary returns for Halo.
Ehhhhhh... Do I want to finish porting over Intercession or not? It's a welcome addition, sure, but I'm not sure if that's exactly that difficult to top.
About to start First Strike with Ace - http://www.twitch.tv/gobeyondent
Zeouterlimits
Member
That's an oddly .. passionate post coming from you Flip.
Also, considering Halo 4... that post .. yeh what? Partially sarcastic surely.
You've bamboozled me!
HiredN00bs
Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
It separates the great from the good and the good from the average and the average from the bad etc. Skill is a broad term though and so many misplace it as one mechanic e.g. shooting or weapon balance.
In terms of skill is a player helped or hindered by game mechanics so their skill is greater or less than that of another player or team in any engagement? I prefer a larger skill gap but not one that creates the 1% rule all effect. For example skills could be shooting, movement, map positioning, team communication, team shooting, setups, decision making and more.
At the end of the day the more in control of my own game/engagement outcome I have solo or in a team the more satisfaction I take from the game and the more I/we will play it. When there is a lesser skill gap players tend to tire of games quickly or the reward for their investment or skill earned is lessened. It's this reward/investment in skills that Halo and a larger skill gap promote.
A larger skill gap is preferred as it gives players something to work towards e.g. always getting better. It provides a more competitive aspect to engagements e.g. how long would you play pong for? Pong or tic tac toe gets boring quick because it has a small skill gap. Conversely chess has near infinite replayability due to a large skill gap. Further having a larger skill gap in play allows variation which goes to enjoyment, spectating and meaning behind a player/team skill(s).
For reference I could go a small adjustment to aim assist/magnetism and a bit more strafe acceleration. Although I think current Halo 4 in ricochet or CTF Pro or BTB Pro is fairly close to on the money for P2P and international/local play. It's really not going to get better overall just more to a specific persons liking or geolocation factor is all. As for future dedicated servers who knows how this is going to be handled, if all players are local I would go for non-hitscan as I loved Halo 3. However the moment internationals share games with each other hitscan is simply required in those games. It's a tricky population vs. geolocation vs. game experience balance.
After all automatically connecting melees aren't very skillful where having to aim your melee is. Online play affects this greatly though so skill gap is constantly tweaked due to systems for online fairness.
Finally reasons like matching players and ranking players. When a small skill gap is present the top players still win but create quite lopsided games as they're constantly matching lesser skilled players/teams. When a larger skill gap is present the spread of matching/ranking players is more accurate in its division and therefore provides closer games which in turn result in maximising game satisfaction for highly skilled or less skilled players/teams alike.
I want a larger skill gap in future Halo titles, things like:
- Out shooting/strafing 1, 2 or 3 enemies like in Halo 2.
- Team play & communication.
- Map/spawn familiarisation (not that I'm a fan of spawn trapping/killing). Halo 4 could setup global ordnance with recon by default and it would create a dynamic version of this as opposed to classic Halo 1,2 & 3.
- Balanced play where it's even starts (or 80-90% even starts).
- Maps that don't advantage either side or provide turn based events to counteract this e.g. offense/defense.
- Ranked vs. Social (therefore limiting guests vs. fullscreen players to reduce quitters or lopsided games etc).
- Awareness rewarded.
- Grenade physics.
- Hit detection more accurate and requiring more precision from players.
- Sword dodge via strafe at an adjacent angle.
- Melee dodge via crouch if enemy aims too high.
- A fast crouch mechanic.
- Vehicles taken down similar to Halo 2 ghost fuel tank rather than plasma pistol starts.
- Slide jumps built into map.
- Momentum based melee and one hit jumping melee return (must not be easy to connect melee for the latter).
- Map design that uses a rule of 3 almost everywhere, no more and no less.
- Don't hand hold players with Waypoints on CTF.
- Assault was a very specific team (escort) or solo (stealth) skillset, bring it back as nothing is in the same region as this style of play.
- Descope over mechanics like flinch. It's simply more predictable and useful at mid to long or extreme range.
One last thought, much of this is for base gameplay but skill gap may vary based on playlist e.g. BTB or a new all out mode with 32v32 or 64v64 etc. Although I'd like many of these mechanics in there when you start to think about pelicans, drop pods, scarabs or a larger Halo skill gap most likely gives way to fun somewhat. Of course for the core 4v4 playlists all of the above should apply.
Except CE used a single shot weapon where Halo 3 used one with a spread and had enough randomness to gunfights. Dedicated servers are not going to cute all the Halo online woes - at the very least if they remove hitscan for a primary weapon, it should absolutely go to single shot.
People hated on the spread in Halo 3. So bungie removed it in Reach and replaced it with bloom.
You really don't want bloom AND bullet travel in the same game, so that made sense to make it hitscan there.
Then people hated bloom.
Clearly the next Halo should have spreloom.
Personally liked bullet travel, but it's a component of the overall sandbox design, so I'm fine with either mechanic of travel or hitscan, just as long as the rest of the sandbox acknowledges the mechanic exists.
Definitely should never have bullet drop in Halo, that's too much realism for an arcade shooter. Maybe the sniper rifle? Throw recoil, drop, and travel time on the sniper rifle, and I'll really appreciate good snipers on a team :lol
You really don't want bloom AND bullet travel in the same game, so that made sense to make it hitscan there.
Then people hated bloom.
Clearly the next Halo should have spreloom.
Personally liked bullet travel, but it's a component of the overall sandbox design, so I'm fine with either mechanic of travel or hitscan, just as long as the rest of the sandbox acknowledges the mechanic exists.
Definitely should never have bullet drop in Halo, that's too much realism for an arcade shooter. Maybe the sniper rifle? Throw recoil, drop, and travel time on the sniper rifle, and I'll really appreciate good snipers on a team :lol
I thought the Halo 3 Battle Rifle's combination of hitscan at a certain distance, bullet travel elsewhere was a decent compromise, but I've always been irked that Covenant weapons weren't given the same treatment in multiplayer. Leveling the playing field would go a long way towards actually making the entire sandbox more attractive.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Agreed, although this Elite model looks pretty badass IMO:
Yep. I think it's long overdue for the H1 Magnum's return, except test it as a 4sk. Enough of this giving the Magnum 8 shots nonsense with crazy bloom or an extremely slow firing rate. I want a powerful Magnum that kills extremely fast, balanced by its difficulty to master. Keep a "Pistol" (whether as a weaker, fast-shooting human or alien weapon) in the game if you must, but Halo needs its Magnum* back.
Cut the nonsense.
*Magnum could represent the powerful sidearm while the Pistol (or label it as something else) can be the weaker one. Think Gears of War for example with the Boltok and Snub Pistols.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Yeah, I like the Elites, I just thought it was funny that reptilian was blatantly the watchword for the Covenant in Halo 4.
Looking again, what's extra stupid is that someone obviously thought they should use variations of the same scaly skin texture for the Grunts, Elites, and Jackals. I guess they thought having alien races with different skin types on the same side would just blow our silly little minds, just like having a Promethean weapon that wasn't silver and orange would.
Syphon Filter
Member
Elites look terrible and uninspired just like everything in the game.
NobleGundam
Banned
They're fine. Uninspired? Perhaps. Imo, they just don't look or feel like a real threat.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Was it distance or a latency threshold? I remember a Bungie article about melee having a latency threshold mechanic too.
gAg CruSh3r
Member
Here's the article: http://halo.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347
I do think that they provide the only decent justification for a three-shot burst, though, in that having a weak but accurate single bullet will ping snipers and finish off far players, but the weapon's efficacy in actually bringing down far players is dramatically reduced by up to 2/3rds, plus bullet travel time. It's a decent compromise, and I think with better networking conditions should work far better.*
*I'm assuming ignoring the dedis that any Peer networking game on the XB1 would be dramatically better than the 360 given that they won't have the same bandwidth restrictions.
That man was clearly too close to the project. He's basically saying everything they did was awesome and he loves everything they did. Scott, get the hell out of here with that crap. The worse place for a developer to be is far up their own ass.
It makes me really appreciate Bungie's old approach of being their own worst critics (at least through the game's development). I'd love to see that applied at 343.
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