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[kittens]

speedy's face every time someone mentions sex

 

[PNut]

While it's great to want to help I'd just like to mention testers do more than just play multiplayer against each other.

Well okay let the good kid testers test the multiplayer and let the random "ive never played halo before but im a nerd and i like video games" test the campaign and whatever else.

Then the mp can be good and then added to the campaign and firefight.

Just work from most important to least important.

 

[User 73706]

speedy's face every time someone mentions sex

i want to patent irl jpeg artifacts

 

[TheOddOne]

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Well okay let the good kid testers test the multiplayer and let the random "ive never played halo before but im a nerd and i like video games" test the campaign and whatever else.

Then the mp can be good and then added to the campaign and firefight.

Just work from most important to least important.

Something something subjective perspective.

 

[User 73706]

Something something subjectivity perspective.

something something what did cinderella say when she got to the ball.

 

[Gui_PT]

More than just a piece BB.

Also, HaloGAF Customs on Saturday. BE THERE!

Yeah I'm not going to play a game that's not even in the top 10.

 

[Duji]

Okay, I don't know if Neighbor is going to read this thread, but if he does. Hell, someone tweet this to him or something.


Neighbor.

You may have a chance to significantly impact the balance of the next Halo game.

During your testing matches, you will have a better shot than most everyone you will be playing against during QA. It is absolutely VITAL to the future of this franchise that you play like you cannot aim better than everyone.

Hear me out.

I realize that you can probably play with some silly 'honor rules' and still smash your competition. You can likely run with just a primary rifle and control snipes and rockets and run all those matches by simply out-shooting everyone. Doing that in your new job will only make the next halo WORSE. You will dominate people with just a rifle, they will complain that that rifle is overpowered. You will dominate with sniper, people will think it's over-powered.

DO NOT TEST THIS GAME WITH "PURE" SKILL. DON'T. PLEASE.

This is how you need to test these games. Break them. If they let you spawn with a boltshot, destroy with it. If they let you spawn with camo, be the cheapest, most annoying asshole possible. Do not beat these people with MLG skills. Beat them with "super-tryhard matchmaking pro" skills. Beat them with every stupid, idiotic mechanic they make available. Be that guy that masters armor lock and makes them notice how bad it is.

stuff I wrote 4 years ago:

Quote
Developers, focus on the testers most successfully abusing the weapons or tactics. Experience is everything when trying to reach an amorphous goal. New players’ perspective is important, but you should not grant them the same amount of credence when trying to balance a set of weapons and mechanics. You should go to the most experienced and best players. They know how to exploit and their experiences are quite enlightening.

Example:
Taken from an interview at IGN, Bungie employee Brian Jarrard:
Quote


Internally we knew that Armor Lock was cranked up just a little bit too much but there wasn't time to dial it back down a notch before the beta launched. One of the biggest issues with Armor Lock was actually brought up internally by one of our engineering leads prior to the beta. He became an Armor Locking prodigy and was able to burst it for a second at a time at the exact moment an enemy would try to melee him. In some cases he could get off upwards of twelve mini usages of Armor Lock before being fully depleted and in each case his attacker would lose their shields and get pummeled in return. This wasn't the design intention for the ability and it's been tweaked a bit now so it uses more energy per burst and someone who hits a locked opponent will no longer have their shields removed.

Clearly, a “prodigy” showed them there was a balance issue with a specific piece of gameplay. This engineer was not a professional tester; he was a random player who took advantage of bad mechanics to win. His perspective was unique and it allowed Bungie designers to see something they had not previously taken into account. If everyone would focus on this perspective, their games could be much better.


Be THAT guy. Beat them with the things you think make the game worse. Jetpack. Sprint away incessantly to prevent people from ever killing you. Camo. Boltshot. Abuse radar. Camp. GET PERFECTIONS, as many as you can. Show them checkmate scenarios. Explain to them that even if they were as good as you, there are certain situations and mechanics you can take advantage of in game that would prevent them countering them effectively. Think good kids abusing camo snipe in ragnarok or Longbow. Think Banshee in Ascension Team Rifles. Think Gemeni Team Slayer. Think of hopeless situations and create them. Show them why the mechanics, maps or weapons are bad and how they can avoid checkmate situations. Do not primarily use your superior shot when testing. Do things that people who don't have such an amazing shot can do and why they shouldnt be able to.

If you go into this job and beat up on their QA noobs doing the same things you do in H4 matchmaking, the things you find fun (rifles, sniping and generally out-shooting everyone while being "fair"), you will ruin this opportunity for us all and cement Halo as a dead franchise competitively. Good testing is the one thing Halo has always lacked because they never knew what to focus on during the testing. They never had testers break the right things to make other testers complain about the things that really mattered.

For the love of all that is holy, do not waste this opportunity. Please.

- a ten year Halo fan and community member.

I could talk about this subject for days on end. Contact me if you want to. If not, no worries. Bravo has my info.

For those who don't know, chaos Theory, the guy Krazer is quoting, has been with the Halo community forever, mainly posting on MLG as a mod. (I think he worked for them too).

I totally agree with this wall of text. When you are designing a competitive game, you NEED skilled players to break the fuck out of it. This is the SC2 and LoL approach. When you balance based solely off the lowest common denominator then the game only becomes competitive for that group and people with less skill.

I suppose an appropriate analogy is a scientific hypothesis. You can either get a first year student to test out the hypothesis or you can get the person with a doctorate who has a history of producing legitimate studies and conducting thorough tests. The student might confirm the hypothesis as valid theory while the researcher might easily find holes in it.

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

You're the shittiest zoojoo alt ever. And I don't even know who that is.

Probably for the best.

Already been covered bro. And yes it is beautiful. :')

 

[Fuchsdh]

More than just a piece BB.

Also, HaloGAF Customs on Saturday. BE THERE!

Cool. Once Halo 3 is free I agree another go at customs would be awesome.

I've got a custom assym ricochet map that I might want to inflict on people if we have a large enough party.

 

[Fuchsdh]

MLG wat. My Eagle had a thing to stand on in Halo 3!

I don't do anything Halo-related in real-life except play Halo and post in forums, with very occasional art stuff as I feel like it. Here's my deviantart. No furries, promise..

It's sad that this has to be spelled out for people.

Edit: double posting like a scrub.

 

[Hydranockz]

I think that the wall of text is so ignorant that it is actually insulting. I thought Bravo was going to be that guy? Or any one of how many hundreds of testers.

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

Are there halogaf customs going on this weekend? Might join in if time permits, wife is in surgery right now so I could use the blow. GT jhferry3

 

[FUBAR McDangles]

Are there halogaf customs going on this weekend? Might join in if time permits, wife is in surgery right now so I could use the blow. GT jhferry3

Yeah on Saturday. 9PM Eastern/8PM Central/who cares after that

But usually you just have to send a message to Tashi and he'll invite you. Can't remember what his exact gamertag is.

Hope everything goes well for you and your wife.

 

[Tashi]

Are there halogaf customs going on this weekend? Might join in if time permits, wife is in surgery right now so I could use the blow. GT jhferry3

Hope everything goes well with the surgery.

Just message TashiGAF Saturday night and I'll get you in

 

[Duji]

I think that the wall of text is so ignorant that it is actually insulting. I thought Bravo was going to be that guy? Or any one of how many hundreds of testers.

Calls someone's post ignorant to the point of insult. Proceeds to ask questions in an unsure manner on the very topic.

...

The truth is none of us know exactly how their testing process works, what kind of players they use, and whose opinions they value the most and to what extent. Personally, I have absolutely no reason to believe they're doing a great job. Why? Look at the beam rifle. Look at PV. Look at instant respawn. These aspects of the game are completely broken and are still present in the game. This is precisely what we got after "hundreds of playtesters" got early access. Not only did 343 not think these aspects were broken, they thought these aspects were good and conducive to Halo. Yes, we have Bravo and Neighbor on board now but what we need are some actual results on the day of Halo 5's launch. So until then, calling it ignorant for someone to offer advice on the testing process is beyond absurd.

edit: and OZZY, you still haven't answered my question.

 

[KraZeR]

For those who don't know, chaos Theory, the guy Krazer is quoting, has been with the Halo community forever, mainly posting on MLG as a mod. (I think he worked for them too).

I totally agree with this wall of text. When you are designing a competitive game, you NEED skilled players to break the fuck out of it. This is the SC2 and LoL approach. When you balance based solely off the lowest common denominator then the game only becomes competitive for that group and people with less skill.

I suppose an appropriate analogy is a scientific hypothesis. You can either get a first year student to test out the hypothesis or you can get the person with a doctorate who has a history of producing legitimate studies and conducting thorough tests. The student might confirm the hypothesis as valid theory while the researcher might easily find holes in it.

Im not cT, but he posted this on the Beyond forums, and just posted it here, couldnt really quote it properly, so i just Copy pasted it

 

[Orochinagis]

Shout out to Bungie, Mastrbiggy and the rest of the DBO crew for making my first E3 possible this year. Seriously, it was an incredible trip. I met a ton of people, did a lot of cool shit, hung out with friends, made new friends...oh and then I won a new cell phone. I've been lucky.

I wish the Bungie team would go to the EGS in Mexico to promote Destiny (and bring the big statue too), its the only major videogame expo around here and the best expo I could go sadly. They usually bring the PES creator for the expo every year.

 

[BigShow36]

The response to every testing session should be: tone down the aim assist, increase the strafe speed and lower the max kill times.

That alone would make the next Halo game 10x better.

 

[Hydranockz]

Calls someone's post ignorant to the point of insult. Proceeds to ask questions in an unsure manner on the very topic.

...

The truth is none of us know exactly how their testing process works, what kind of players they use, and whose opinions they value the most and to what extent. Personally, I have absolutely no reason to believe they're doing a great job. Why? Look at the beam rifle. Look at PV. Look at instant respawn. These aspects of the game are completely broken and are still present in the game. This is precisely what we got after "hundreds of playtesters" got early access. Not only did 343 not think these aspects were broken, they thought these aspects were good and conducive to Halo. Yes, we have Bravo and Neighbor on board now but what we need are some actual results on the day of Halo 5's launch. So until then, calling it ignorant for someone to offer advice on the testing process is beyond absurd.

edit: and OZZY, you still haven't answered my question.

Well, how about the fact that Bravo is the 'inside man' on the job? He was literally heralded as being the sort of pro player that could really change Halo for the better going forward. We've already seen what happened with him though. He gets a spot on the bulletin but the game don't seem much better. Bad gametypes still rolling out.

I wasn't questioning the topic in a manner as much as I was challenging the views on the community that were so enamoured with Bravo joining. Fair play to Bravo, I can't fault him for what he has done but why is Neighbor suddenly also needed?

 

[NobleGundam]

The response to every testing session should be: tone down the aim assist, increase the strafe speed and lower the max kill times.

That alone would make the next Halo game 10x better.

Gold

 

[Poker Face]

The response to every testing session should be: tone down the aim assist, increase the strafe speed and lower the max kill times.

That alone would make the next Halo game 10x better.

This will never happen though. Maybe lowering the max kill times but nothing else.

 

[Fuchsdh]

This will never happen though. Maybe lowering the max kill times but nothing else.

Halo 4 gave us a four shot BR. A 3sk utility weapon is not happening.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Halo 4 gave us a four shot BR. A 3sk utility weapon is not happening.

A 4-shot BR that's easy to land a 4sk with*, especially when compared to that 3sk weapon you're probably referring to.

That is the HUGE difference many people fail to realize. It's not only about the shots it takes to kill someone, it's about the skill it demands to consistently pull off low-shot kills due to the competitive balance of the game.

 

[BigShow36]

This will never happen though. Maybe lowering the max kill times but nothing else.

And hence why we will never get another great Halo game.

 

[Tawpgun]

Still boggles my mind you guys are still here.

 

[Fuchsdh]

A 4-shot BR that's easy to land a 4sk with*, especially when compared to that 3sk weapon you're probably referring to.

That is the HUGE difference many people fail to realize. It's not only about the shots it takes to kill someone, it's about the skill it demands to consistently pull off low-shot kills due to the competitive balance of the game.

A fair point, but irrelevant to what I was referring to. If anything a more difficult to use BR would lengthen kill times for the majority of players.

 

[Duji]

Still boggles my mind you guys are still here.

Still boggles my mind that many people here including yourself think they want a CE clone.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

A fair point, but irrelevant to what I was referring to. If anything a more difficult to use BR would lengthen kill times for the majority of players.

But increase their drive to get better, allowing for much more rewarding kills.

This is what Halo's been missing for years; that feeling of accomplishment by reaching new skill milestones. Gives the game legs.

Still boggles my mind that many people here including yourself think they want a CE clone.

I don't know how many times I've had to explain what I mean by

Spoiler

Combat Evolved 2

, but people still think I want a CE clone lol. Ignorant people will be ignorant.

 

[NobleGundam]

(3sk when scoped) 5sk weapon with descoping.

 

[Tawpgun]

(3sk when scoped) 5sk weapon with descoping.

Lets not shit on BTB again please.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

It's sad that this has to be spelled out for people.

I hate deviantart so much... I used to be really good about looking at the pages of people who favorited my work but there's only so much Sonic the Hedgehog hentai I can have sprung on me before I break down.

The response to every testing session should be: tone down the aim assist, increase the strafe speed and lower the max kill times.

That alone would make the next Halo game 10x better.

If only... but I'm not optimistic with Microsoft looking at the piles of money super accessible games like CoD make every year.

What I really want all those gameplay things be made completely accessible to the people in custom game options, and a decent customs browser. Let people make decent version s of Halo: CE, Halo 2, Halo 3, etc (without being hobbled by in-built crap like bloom and flinch) plus new innovative gametypes we haven't seen, and then let them diffuse through the whole community via the custom games browser. Once something becomes popular enough, let Community Gametypers vet it and 343i stick it into matchmaking as either part of a test playlist or as a temporary double xp playlist.

We already have crowdsourcing of the playspaces (maps), so why not crowdsource some of the game design? It already happened with SWAT and Zombies, let it happen with more subtle parts of the game.

 

[Striker]

Lets not shit on BTB again please.

He's talking about shots to kill, not the scope of the zoom.

Besides, BTB has other issues like OP vehicles, shitty gametypes, shitty maps, sprint, AA's, bubble shields, Spartan Lasers, and EMP that's been causing it to deteriorate.

 

[Tawpgun]

He's talking about shots to kill, not the scope of the zoom.

Besides, BTB has other issues like OP vehicles, shitty gametypes, shitty maps, sprint, AA's, bubble shields, Spartan Lasers, and EMP that's been causing it to deteriorate.

If there's a zoom its likely to be similar to the Light Rifles 2x (I think) zoom. That thing would be so easy to chew people up.

But I agree, loadouts ruined Halo 4 BTB, but the DMR and those shitty vehicles ruined it in Reach.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

To add, I think it's just easier to categorize us into that group to dismiss our opinions as "nostalgic" and "biased," when in reality it's the best way to "save Halo." Halo 2, 3, ODST and Reach were all noted during development as returning/respecting its Combat Evolved roots, but we saw how each of those turned out. Sure they may have been fun in their own right, but they are hardly shining examples of how Halo 1 gameplay was. It's the game that is constantly being referenced before the next game is released, but we've seen that it's always just pre-release hype and never the case as truly returning to its roots.

Halo 2 just had the good fortune of releasing with XBL and expanding its audience to millions of players. That being said, can't hate because at least Halo 2 was pretty damn fun and the maps/gametypes were incredible.

Lets not shit on BTB again please.

Halo 1 BTB was crazy fun.

He's talking about shots to kill, not the scope of the zoom.

Besides, BTB has other issues like OP vehicles, shitty gametypes, shitty maps, sprint, AA's, bubble shields, Spartan Lasers, and EMP that's been causing it to deteriorate.

^

 

[Duji]

If there's a zoom its likely to be similar to the Light Rifles 2x (I think) zoom. That thing would be so easy to chew people up.

But I agree, loadouts ruined Halo 4 BTB, but the DMR and those shitty vehicles ruined it in Reach.

The LR has a 3x zoom. I also hope we don't get another 3x zoom utility rifle. 2x zoom is the way to go.

 

[Tawpgun]

To add, I think it's just easier to categorize us into that group to dismiss our opinions as "nostalgic" and "biased," when in reality it's the best way to "save Halo." Halo 2, 3, ODST and Reach were all noted during development as returning/respecting its Combat Evolved roots, but we saw how each of those turned out. Sure they may have been fun in their own right, but they are hardly shining examples of how Halo 1 gameplay was. It's the game that is constantly being referenced before the next game is released, but we've seen that it's always just pre-release hype and never the case as truly returning to its roots.

Halo 2 just had the good fortune of releasing with XBL and expanding its audience to millions of players. That being said, can't hate because at least Halo 2 was pretty damn fun and the maps were incredible.



Halo 1 BTB was crazy fun.



^

Halo 1 BTB was crazy fun, I'll give you that.

Though im not sure how it played on Xbox. I played it on PC and I couldn't tell if I was playing in Scrub City or something but I could be on foot the entire game and put up huge numbers. I remember that feeling where not even tanks scared me. Every vehicle could be dealt with on foot. But at the same time when I got in a vehicle it was super easy to get kills (insta splatters were insane)

EDIT: Reminded me of the video I made from WAAAAAY back in the day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=302DEu9jbC4

 

[BigShow36]

I

If only... but I'm not optimistic with Microsoft looking at the piles of money super accessible games like CoD make every year.

CoD is accessible because it has fast kills times. If 343 and MS were trying to capture CoD's accessibility, they failed miserably.

And BTB didn't fail because of 3x zoom, it failed because the weapons are way too easy to land shots with. Increase the player strafe and decrease aim assists at range and you'll fix BTB. Having different shots to kill when zoomed vs unzoomed is lame.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

The LR has a 3x zoom. I also hope we don't get another 3x zoom utility rifle. 2x zoom is the way to go.

It has a 2x zoom with 3x RRR.

Halo 1 BTB was crazy fun, I'll give you that.

Though im not sure how it played on Xbox. I played it on PC and I couldn't tell if I was playing in Scrub City or something but I could be on foot the entire game and put up huge numbers. I remember that feeling where not even tanks scared me. Every vehicle could be dealt with on foot. But at the same time when I got in a vehicle it was super easy to get kills (insta splatters were insane)

It was a beautiful thing. The only reason it worked for objective games with such fast kill times on weapons/vehicles is because the physics on the flag/ball were very floaty. If you put that KILL waypoint and tank-heavy flag from later games into Halo 1, then it would've been crap.. comparatively speaking.

It's all about that balance of mechanics and gameplay design. Halo 3 CTF worked fine because the kill times were longer, but now imagine a H1 floaty flag with the Halo 3 BR? Silly. But when comparing the CTF modes as a package, H1/H2 vs H3/Reach/4, I would say (and hopefully most would agree) that H1/2 CTF was hands down, way more enjoyable.

CoD is accessible because it has fast kills times. If 343 and MS were trying to capture CoD's accessibility, they failed miserably.

You reminded me, last night I was talking with my 6-year-old nephew about CoD. He said he was playing it at our cousin's house and that he likes it because "when you shoot someone once, they go down" lol. Yeah yeah, I'll have a talk with my cousin about this later..

Spoiler

Letting my nephew play CoD over Halo 1.

So there ya have it folks.

 

[Tawpgun]

It has a 2x zoom with 3x RRR.



It was a beautiful thing. The only reason it worked for objective games with such fast kill times on weapons/vehicles is because the physics on the flag/ball were very floaty. If you put that KILL waypoint and tank-heavy flag from later games into Halo 1, then it would've been crap.. comparatively speaking.

It's all about that balance of mechanics and gameplay design. Halo 3 CTF worked fine because the kill times were longer, but now imagine a H1 floaty flag with the Halo 3 BR? Silly. But when comparing the CTF modes as a package, H1/H2 vs H3/Reach/4, I would say (and hopefully most would agree) that H1/2 CTF was hands down, way more enjoyable.



You reminded me, last night I was talking with my 6-year-old nephew about CoD. He said he was playing it at our cousin's house and that he likes it because "when you shoot someone once, they go down" lol. Yeah yeah, I'll have a talk with my cousin about this later..

Spoiler

Letting my nephew play CoD over Halo 1.

So there ya have it folks.

Well the big thing with H1 CTF is you could get into vehicles with it.

 

[Zoolader]

He's talking about shots to kill, not the scope of the zoom.

Besides, BTB has other issues like OP vehicles, shitty gametypes, shitty maps, sprint, AA's, bubble shields, Spartan Lasers, and EMP that's been causing it to deteriorate.

Halo 3 btb was great and had a lot of what you mentioned. Some of the most fun in Halo that I've had were on maps like Valhalla and Sandtrap.Things like the bubble shield as equipment and placement of the spartan laser were always debatable but I enjoyed them. Loadouts with plasma grenades, plasma pistols, emp, armor lock, jet pack, sprint, overpowered scoped starting weapons, mediocre maps, and stupid vehicle choices on said shitty maps did turn it into a mess though.

 

[Orochinagis]

CoD is accessible because it has fast kills times. If 343 and MS were trying to capture CoD's accessibility, they failed miserably.

And BTB didn't fail because of 3x zoom, it failed because the weapons are way too easy to land shots with. Increase the player strafe and decrease aim assists at range and you'll fix BTB. Having different shots to kill when zoomed vs unzoomed is lame.

If we want faster kill times then 343i should get rid of the shields which could be problematic.

I hate the vehicles since Reach, what they were thinking to share your shields with the vehicles, everyone can kill you first than destroying the vehicle with the DMR.

 

[CyReN]

What's with all the hire Tashi tweets.

 

[BigShow36]

If we want faster kill times then 343i should get rid of the shields which could be problematic.

I hate the vehicles since Reach, what they were thinking to share your shields with the vehicles, everyone can kill you first than destroying the vehicle with the DMR.

What does removing shields have to do with increased kill times? I'm not asking for CoD speed, especially the average kill speed, but perfect aim should kill in about half the time it currently takes.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

If we want faster kill times then 343i should get rid of the shields which could be problematic.

I hate the vehicles since Reach, what they were thinking to share your shields with the vehicles, everyone can kill you first than destroying the vehicle with the DMR.

It's about having potentially faster kill times with weapons that have an increased skill gap.

Simply making the current BR a 3sk would be asinine without adjusting other properties.

 

[Gui_PT]

EDIT: Reminded me of the video I made from WAAAAAY back in the day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=302DEu9jbC4

Hnnnnggg dat JENOVA music

 

[Barrow Roll]

What's with all the hire Tashi tweets.

People believe he deserves to be hired for a testing position after the considerable contributions he has made to Halo 4 Matchmaking over the last several months. I'm inclined to agree, if that's what Tashi's end goal happens to be.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Halo could benefit from a training mode like the Dojo Mode in Killer Instinct. Plenty of games have advanced tech tutorials, so this could allow for some passive button combos to return like backpack reloading. XXY greatly sped up the flow of combat and contributed to the deep metagame, so with a tutorials walkthrough that would eliminate the main issue brought up by 343 of people being unaware.

EDIT: Reminded me of the video I made from WAAAAAY back in the day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=302DEu9jbC4

2v2 BG CTF Hogs only was so fun. I know these days it would seem crazy to play 2v2 on a BTB map, but it was a different era back then. Players weren't concerned with filling bars and unlocking a flashy new toy, they just played to have fun and to get better. The core of what made Halo multiplayer exciting.

Some of those matches lasted several hours long and it was pure enjoyment.

 

[CyReN]

Halo 4 for $10 - http://www.gamefly.com/Buy-Halo-4/5003713/?adtrackingid=cmju029

 

[Prinz Eugn]

CoD is accessible because it has fast kills times. If 343 and MS were trying to capture CoD's accessibility, they failed miserably.

I guess in a way they tried to CoD it in every way except that, by putting waypoints over everything, handing everybody tons of perks, adding killstreak-type stuff, taking away on-map weapons. But yep, still totally failed.

I think the whole gist of short kill times is it's about the minimum time if you were a perfect shot, which is different from the average time in the real sandbox seems like people are assuming. FUNKNOWN, correct me if I'm wrong, but your big thing is it's too easy to be a perfect shot nowadays?