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Halo |OT18| We're Back Baby!
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Lemme give you a real talk tip. The biggest issue I have with all your gameplay ideas/halysis shit is you overcomplicate to things (and even added randomness to your last idea)
Keep gameplay simple, don't have dumb guns that don't have a lethal purpose.
Poker Face
Member
Buying an Xbox One day one. Not ever buying Halo 5 if it has sprint, armor abilities, or perks.
No one plays Halo for that stuff, they play for the core mechanics. Bungie and Respawn are both about to release HUGE sci-fi FPS franchises, and if your fucking answer to them is more armor abilities and perks, I wish you luck because you'll be needing it.
No one plays Halo for that stuff, they play for the core mechanics. Bungie and Respawn are both about to release HUGE sci-fi FPS franchises, and if your fucking answer to them is more armor abilities and perks, I wish you luck because you'll be needing it.
xxjuicesxx
Member
#HireJuices
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
They need to just fit them as map pick-ups and Power-ups while making Thrusters default.
Pick-ups (reusable):
- Thrusters (if not base movement)
- Jet Pack
- Hologram
- Autosentry
- Regeneration Field
- Radar Jammer
Power-ups (set duration or until death):
- OS
- Camo
- Damage Boost
- Speed Boost
- Promethean Vision
M6D. No weapon has ever felt as rewarding.
Build from there.
Yeah, this is why I think it would probably be best to remove AA's and just build on Halo's Power-ups.
The Henery
Member
Gonna have to go with this. The more you add to base traits of Halo, the further away you get from the game that earned universal 10/10 scores and birthed a franchise that was strong enough to carry an entire console. I remember reading a retrospective on Halo 1 and it said something like "problem is, when you've created perfect, where do you go from there?". That's not a problem, that's a gifthorse. You iterate from there, you refine, you expand on the meta features, which to be fair Bungie did with Halo's 2 and 3. I don't want to get into a strafe speed/shots to kill/aim assist argument here, the point is the first three Halo's started all players equal and were about map control and securing power up's/weapons. Reach smacked of a company bored by iterating on perfect (which is perfectly understandable) and wanting to get a little crazy with the gameplay ideas and hey, if not all of them worked, it didn't matter too much because they weren't responsible for the franchise anymore.
Some people on here are waaaaay too accepting of AA's as an inevitability. AA's were heavily flawed on multiple levels in Reach and ditto for Halo 4. Highly problematic for gameplay. They're just a fundamentally bad idea for Halo. Duel wielding only survived two games and rightly so. Equipment a single game. AA's need to go.
I'm not against new additions to the game. Speed boost is fine, Thruster pack is my favourite aspect of Halo 4. If it returns it should be a base ability for everyone in lieu of AA's.
Sprint is redundant rubbish too. Clunky animations, awkward pause between stopping and shooting. If it's there it should be like Doom where you move really fast and can still shoot.
I don't get the point of a sprint where you can still shoot. The vulnerability in exchange for speed is the whole point.
Henery dropping truth bombs again. Armor abilities have no place in an arena FPS (although I'm not completely against the idea of equipment). Sprint is pointless too.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Good post, just wanted to point one thing out that will surely be controversial with many people:
The same thing can be said about the BR in terms of the shooting aspects of Halo's sandbox. People are too accepting of this weapon because it's "classic" even though it's been purposefully designed to work against the player by adding inconsistencies and randomness to battles. It takes predictability and consistency away from Halo all with the purpose of giving the lesser-skilled players a chance at luck, not unlike bloom. Sure the H4 BR may be better than the H3 BR, but let's try going with a single shot human precision weapon as the face of competitive Halo again, and one that doesn't have 3x bloom.
Yeah, either scrap sprint entirely or make the clunky animations much faster. Sprinting and shooting is essentially the Speed Boost.
I don't like this point.
Combat was tighter in the no sprint games. Now we have firefights on large ass fucking maps because sprint makes the need for bigger maps.
Henery is right about one thing though. Dual Weilding went away after 2 games. Why can't AA's?
It's stupid to force players to be defenseless just for mobility. Mobility should be a baseline, not a tradeoff. The whole concept that there is some "strategy" in choosing when to use sprint is asinine and needs to go.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Seriously. He's probably my favorite HaloGAF poster when it comes to gameplay critique. Havok, too, but he barely posts anymore.
Edit : Oh yeah, and I got a DualShock 4 just now! So stoked. Gonna play The Last of Us for the first time with it starting tomorrow.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Sprint in Halo sucks, but I don't see them removing it nor do I see them allowing you to shoot while sprinting.
- They're going to have sprint.
- They're going to have stopping power.
Just imagine the 3sk H1 Magnum making a return but balanced by things like increased movement speeds, better strafes, less aim assist and default Thrusters buttttttttt........
....it could never work because 3 shots is faster than 4-5 shots and because Pistol.
RIP Havok.
How are people okay with sprint? After playing Halo 3 again, it's so easy to see why it ruins maps, and changes Halo gameplay.
For me, biggest no-no would be loadout system with the perks, giving people ability to change mid game, equip things like plasma pistols, plasma grenades, explosive perk.
The removal of ALL armor abilities from base gameplay, turn them back into power ups if need be, even jetpack if you have some new map where it could be a useful tool (limited gas in it).
Flinch should be gone as well. I just want to play Halo, where we all start equal, where everything is on map.
As for ranks, they need to be instantly visible in game, and there should be a ranked/unranked split. I'm not some Tashi MLG 50 guy, but I still like to know where I stand. Even if I make colonel only, it tells me how good I am. And sure you get shit from higher ranks, but it also made it that much sweeter to shit on brigadiers or generals.
For me, biggest no-no would be loadout system with the perks, giving people ability to change mid game, equip things like plasma pistols, plasma grenades, explosive perk.
The removal of ALL armor abilities from base gameplay, turn them back into power ups if need be, even jetpack if you have some new map where it could be a useful tool (limited gas in it).
Flinch should be gone as well. I just want to play Halo, where we all start equal, where everything is on map.
As for ranks, they need to be instantly visible in game, and there should be a ranked/unranked split. I'm not some Tashi MLG 50 guy, but I still like to know where I stand. Even if I make colonel only, it tells me how good I am. And sure you get shit from higher ranks, but it also made it that much sweeter to shit on brigadiers or generals.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I would anticipate close to or a less weighting than the current Halo 4 system. Another 5-20% reduction of the current playlist setup for AA's and all that with the rest as classic Halo would be fine.
They have multiple audiences to cater for once again but expect far less Halo 4 launch type Infinity and more clean classic Halo balance IMO.
I don't see anything wrong with classic style games or variants not having sprint where AA based games do. It's not jarring like Reach's DMR vs. TU DMR vs. ZB. If they design the maps around settings/playlist ideals this works rather well. Bring in a simple loading screen like the Halo 2 loading screen and we're good to go.
Another option is player toggles for settings and maps allowing dynamic matching/voting variants so player choose what they want to play and match then vote for it. Again a reduction in developer playlist/setting static work and enabling players to find what they want to play in a less rigid system.
They have multiple audiences to cater for once again but expect far less Halo 4 launch type Infinity and more clean classic Halo balance IMO.
I don't see anything wrong with classic style games or variants not having sprint where AA based games do. It's not jarring like Reach's DMR vs. TU DMR vs. ZB. If they design the maps around settings/playlist ideals this works rather well. Bring in a simple loading screen like the Halo 2 loading screen and we're good to go.
Another option is player toggles for settings and maps allowing dynamic matching/voting variants so player choose what they want to play and match then vote for it. Again a reduction in developer playlist/setting static work and enabling players to find what they want to play in a less rigid system.
Sorry for double post, but how is it? Think about in FPS terms as well.
Was today at my local mediastore and looked for the DS4
Sadly without success I want it soooo badly ( I have to adjust to the sticks for shooter quickly before Battlefield 4 drops)There's an impressions thread. Mostly positive so far.
I'm gonna grab one tonight if my Gamestop has them in stock. I don't need a 2nd controller at all, but I want to get used to it. Figured now would be a good time to run through The Last of Us on Survivor difficulty, then play Killzone 2/3. People are liking the sticks a lot so far, for whatever its worth.Was today at my local mediastore and looked for the DS4
Barrow Roll
Member
Stop with this trying to please everyone bullshit mentality, it dilutes the player pool and fragments the population. Keep non traditional Halo in weekend playlists and customs.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
People NEED that weekday Infection/griffball fix.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Fixed because otherwise, your post is still limiting Halo's true potential; its Custom Games.
What if default Halo 5 is still shit? Then what? We're stuck bitching for another few years until 343 maybe decides to fix it.. I'm done with this "let's only play what the developers want us to" bullshit Halo fans have come to instinctively accept.
Matchmaking without search parameters and a separate Custom Games Browser has been killing Halo's longevity since other games entered the mainstream population and started stealing away its fanbase (CoD). If I could go into Halo 4 multiplayer and search for ONE game with settings that I like, then I'd still be playing it with some sort of consistency.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I just made a post in the impressions thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87475633&postcount=352
The Henery
Member
The whole point is that it's in Call of Duty, which is the number one shooter on the market.
Seriously though, I understand that argument I just don't think sprint adds anything to Halo. In fact I think it detracts severely from the game. Doom sprint reference is just exasperated compromise.
It also leads to a lot encounters where one player accidently sprints into another. The guy not sprinting gets 3 or 4 shots off before the sprinter starts shooting. There's not going to be too many variable outcomes in that situation. So what's the solution for the player? Sprint less. But this is problematic because Halo now has larger maps to accomodate sprint. Nothing is added in pure gameplay terms.
In the original trilogy, nothing comparable to the situation described above happens. One player sees another first but the player under attack is free to immediately shoot back and the brilliance of a Halo 1v1 is on again. Nothing as archaic as a sprint animation to get in the way and bog the encounter down.
Trim the fat.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
What of Grifball, for example? That's non traditional gameplay but it's simply a must to keep. There is no way classic no sprint, no AAs, no loadouts & no progression system is coming back 100%. I love those classic settings too but I don't want it 100% of the time.
If pure classic arena was still the rage it would have never lost the FPS king position to start with.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
The CODification of the console FPS can't last forever. Just because it's been the craze for the past six years doesn't mean a AAA FPS can't go against the grain. And I agree with what others have said -- if any series is a position to gain commercial success using a more classic arena model, it's Halo.
Didn't Halo 3 consistently outperform CoD for its first few years? I don't think it's a coincidence that Halo's online population started to decline as it moved away from an arena FPS with Reach and 4.
Also the whole "multiple audiences" argument kind of falls apart when you look at Halo 4, which basically doesn't even have an audience at this point.
No, but if it was still a pure classic arena shooter, it wouldn't have lost decades long fans who stop playing. Halo isn't in a favorable position my friend.
As for grifball, you forget it was community created, as was infection and many others. I think it was juices or someone else who said that all these 343 created playlists have stifled community creation/innovation.
Halo should only provide the tools to create grifball, to create infection, to create whatever idea Wahrer can come up with. But having all those playlists isn't a must. Halo should be Halo, nothing else.
I'm a fan of this post.
Barrow Roll
Member
I don't believe that Halo will be implementing a custom games browser anytime soon, even though it would be amazing. I posted under that assumption. Would love to be proven wrong.
If Halo 5 is still shit out of the box? Then time to play something else. We've seen the communities try to fix Halo with custom settings time after time, and it's always just some Frankenstein's monster of a creation. MLG Reach post patch, and Halo 4 Throwdown, this is what they could do with editing the base game, with the help of official patches no less, and it's still not good enough. I don't want to play some fringe variant of the base game in underpopulated customs or playlist filled only with the best of the best. I want to be able to enjoy a good base Halo game among people at my skill level. They need a core singular vision for what that is, and unfortunately no one else is making Halo games so all we can do is be very vocal about what we like and don't like. 343 is going to make what they want to make. A wealth of custom options should be there too, but when Grifball gets an official gametype over Assault, then I can't help but feel that the priorities are kinda wacky.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
In fact they already do this with playlist management and variants, they always have just Halo 4 has a much faster cadence. All though you treat it black and white where I want a grey balance with more weighting for classic. Anyhow I'll be a scapegoat for only agree with a medium percentage of what you want.
I would agree Halo is/has the arena model best chances, however, the time has long passed and a 100% return would not create a successful game business wise. Arena style play MUST be there at launch, that was a fatal flaw. Arena MUST be kept in mind for the map design, sandbox, and the "main base" gameplay. It can happily satisfy everything you want by having a 50-75% dominance at launch.
That's what I'm asking for but please continue with the knee jerk reaction to wanting 25-50% new stuff each game. Go ahead and stick with a 10 year old formula 100%, it will just stifle developer creativity and the chance for something new, this is way it's so important to be open to developer change for approx. 25% of the game.
In the history of Halo games isn't it beneficial we've seen the rise of:
- ricochet
- stockpile
- extraction
- ninja flag/bomb/ball
- multi team
- team control
- VIP (the original without a waypoint)
- grifball (personally dislike it but many do)
- zombies/infection/flood
- splasers
- elimination
- race/rocket race
- headhunter
- team regicide
That's just being biased to suit your own opinion, poor science so to speak. Previous Halo suffered fatigue of the same game, new games offered new experiences and the masses moved away. There are many contributing factors, not just arena disappearing.
Halo 4 totally failed by not having arena and quality maps for it at launch and taking 6 months to get it in there. Again I agree arena was messed up in Halo 4 but it's there now and we don't all of a sudden see 1,000,000 players flocking back to it do we? Maps like Monolith, Haven, Pitfall, Skyline etc and the turbo settings + red X's etc all deliver what 80-90% of that arena setup? So why didn't some 650,000-900,000 players start purchasing the content? It's not as popular as HaloGAF thinks it is. When you have Tashi or Ghost or AGL etc really getting behind the game that it currently is and the pros let alone the larger masses of players don't purchase your proof is already here, arena as 100% is dead. The same went for CE maps and 75% of those settings with Reach Anniversary, why didn't all these arena masses you speak of return in the millions?
I want arena but the masses don't. If Halo goes 100% arena it will not perform. I want 50-75% arena and 25-50% new stuff.
Exactly part of my point. If the developer was to stick as 100% arena they would never be open to community or new change.
This is a logical outcome that I haven't seen before. How do you feel about more niche gametypes, such as SWAT, Snipers, or Infection with sprint? For the lurking Nokyard, how do you feel about Grifball with and without sprint?
It would come in at 1st and 2nd. The last time Halo was at number 1 consistently was immediately before MW2.
EDIT: While I'm here, what are some things in Theatre that people want? I've already got stuff like upload to YouTube, kill/death indicators on timeline, return of party viewing, and a bookmark on timeline option.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Nope, it lost its place because it focused entirely too much on fringe gametypes like Grifball and Zombies. Which previously gave a whole group of "creators" something to do while Bungie worked on HALO.
Nothing wrong with that, these gametypes can still be worked on and crafted by the community and then they can be rotated as weekly lists.
Orochinagis
Member
It was before COD WaW (because zombishhhh) after that Halo 3 was on the top 3.
Poker Face
Member
Why wouldn't it do well? Is there an example of a AAA arena shooter failing in the past 5 years that supports you claim?
December of 2009, a month after MW2 launched
Xbox 360 Top LIVE Titles (based on UUs)
1 Modern Warfare 2
2 Halo 3
3 Call of Duty: WaW
4 Call of Duty 4
5 Left 4 Dead 2
6 FIFA 10
7 Assassins Creed II
8 GTA IV
9 Madden NFL 10
10 Gears of War 2
Halo 3 is still #2, two years after it launched. And only because MW2 launched, otherwise here is a chart about two months earlier.
Xbox 360 Top LIVE Titles (based on UUs)
1 Halo 3
2 Call of Duty: WaW
3 Call of Duty 4
4 Gears of War 2
5 Madden NFL 10
6 GTA IV
7 FIFA Soccer 10 Demo
8 FIFA 09
9 Left 4 Dead
10 Batman: Arkham Asylum
Xbox 360 Top LIVE Titles (based on UUs)
1 Modern Warfare 2
2 Halo 3
3 Call of Duty: WaW
4 Call of Duty 4
5 Left 4 Dead 2
6 FIFA 10
7 Assassins Creed II
8 GTA IV
9 Madden NFL 10
10 Gears of War 2
Halo 3 is still #2, two years after it launched. And only because MW2 launched, otherwise here is a chart about two months earlier.
Xbox 360 Top LIVE Titles (based on UUs)
1 Halo 3
2 Call of Duty: WaW
3 Call of Duty 4
4 Gears of War 2
5 Madden NFL 10
6 GTA IV
7 FIFA Soccer 10 Demo
8 FIFA 09
9 Left 4 Dead
10 Batman: Arkham Asylum
Orochinagis
Member
Just Log Out or press B, it will return you to the accounts Log in screen, then log in normally.
My brother did the same, didn't work. I did it and it worked just fine. Go figure.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
I had to enable 2 step verification on my account. Fucking Joke
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Fair enough.
This is why I won't stop pushing for some sort of Custom Games search or a hybrid system. It's only not good enough because we were never able to show Bungie/343 that these should be the base settings by speaking through the Custom Games Browser. If most people are flocking to Custom Games over the ease and benefits of Matchmaking (ranks, etc.), then hopefully that would send a message that their base settings aren't what most fans want.
I've said this before but MLG Halo 3/Reach should be across the board base gameplay for those games. Bungie and 343 used to love saying how we're the vocal minority, but I don't think we'd be in the "minority" if we'd have these options. They can only say that because we don't.
Note: This is all under the assumption that if people were given the options to see how better Halo 3 played with MLG base settings outside of that "unwelcoming to nonhardcore players" MLG playlist, then they'd play more Custom Games through the browser. I could be wrong with this and most people will be lazy and stick with Matchmaking because it's easier, but I'd like to have the chance to see especially when you consider the power behind a competitive player's voice thanks to streaming services becoming more mainstream.
They finally stopped for me after I set up three emails, two calling phone numbers, and a texting phone number.
NSA Director: We got him now. Constant surveillance on Karl2177. We'll teach him a lesson for putting the Washington Monument as his dong.
Barrow Roll
Member
Maybe I wasn't being clear. When I say they're not good enough, I mean that even though they're much closer to the ideal traditional Halo that we want, they're still riddled with flaws by being built on the base game of something not designed with that type of play in mind. Just some of the problems off the top of my head:
MLG Reach
-movement feels like ice skating
-no bleedthrough pre-patch, bleedthrough and health pack glitches post-patch
-DMR sometimes kills through shields on headshot, sometimes doesn't. Inconsistent damage feedback
-Weapon sandbox balanced around bloom is no longer balanced. DMR feels good to shoot unscoped, but has no business being 3x zoom. Pistol with no bloom and that ROF was pretty gnarly too. Better than bloomfest, but still
Halo 4
-No Sprint gametypes only possible with mods
-no way to reduce flinching or get back descoping without mods
-useless grenades that need a perk to be effective, that can't replenished without a perk
-can you even make camo a custom powerup in Halo 4? I don't even remember
Let's not forget the lack of good proper symmetrical maps in both games and the over reliance on ugly Forge Maps. This the kind of stuff I mean when I say it's not good enough.
The map pack system is absolutely awful and needs a serious change. Bungie had it right with Halo 2 before Microsoft's genius mucked everything up. When you're forced to play Haven/Abandon 80% of the time it's no wonder people would quit the game. Hell it's why I did last november. Nearly a year later, I buy the Pitfall pack and in 90+ games I haven't even been able to vote for the maps I purchased. Abandon is seriously a fucking garbage map in just about every way. Christ, just pisses me off even thinking about that piece of trash.
Paywall the dumb barbie unlocks (and other dumb shit people love to waste money on) and pump out quality maps for free.
Paywall the dumb barbie unlocks (and other dumb shit people love to waste money on) and pump out quality maps for free.
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