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[Madness]

Focus testing with Ghal, Juices, and Kyle. Halo is saved.

I think you're being sarcastic, but I'd rather play a Halo that Ghaleon, Kyle, Juices, Dax, Ramirez, and others sign off on, than what some random focus testers or even what 343 thinks constitutes a good Halo.

I hope he critiques the multiplayer from a design perspective.

Doubt it. He'll say yeah we played it, they did a fantastic job and made it their own. It's hard taking over from a studio, and it's hard seeing someone else develop the IP you created, but we did all we could with Halo and were now focused on Destiny.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I think you're being sarcastic, but I'd rather play a Halo that Ghaleon, Kyle, Juices, Dax, Ramirez, and others sign off on, than what some random focus testers or even what 343 constitutes a good Halo.

I'm not entirely against that perspective. I do have faith at some folks at 343 though. Halo 5 reveals will be...interesting to watch.

Although I think Heckfu would add some awesome FIFA gametypes to Halo 5. Also your list is weird.

 

[heckfu]

I think you're being sarcastic, but I'd rather play a Halo that Ghaleon, Kyle, Juices, Dax, Ramirez, and others sign off on, than what some random focus testers or even what 343 constitutes a good Halo.

LOL how did you come to these players? Just curious is all.

 

[orznge]

I think if I was contracted to test and give input on a Halo game that I would shower every bad design decision with praise out of spite lol

 

[Steelyuhas]

LOL how did you come to these players? Just curious is all.

By not including Heckfu in the list

 

[heckfu]

By not including Heckfu in the list

no i'm just saying it's weird that those guys are included and not pro players or people that designed h2, h3, etc.

but yeah, excluding me from that list is probably a good idea. it would end up being the shittiest soccer sim/fps mashup.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Y'all stupid as hell, Let me design Halo 5.

Hire Stalker

Spoiler

Juices you want a new job?

 

[User 73706]

Ramirez would just troll the focus groups to hell in the first place.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Give me unlimited resources and I'd make the best Halo ever and everyone would live happily ever after the end.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Who is the new MP Designer? It seems to keep getting reposted.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Who is the new MP Designer? It seems to keep getting reposted.

Juices: Core Multiplayer Lead Designer (handles core, competitive gametypes)
Wareh: Fiest Multiplayer Lead Designer (handles secondary for fun gametypes)
Kyle: Playlist Management
Heckfu: Community Manager, Creative Director
Demoncarnotaur: Art Lead
Tashi: Lead Creative Director
Ramirez: Multiplayer Development (works with juices and wareh)
Stalker: Franchise Development Director
HiredN00bs: Franchise Development, Writer

When I start up Stalker Industries it's all you bro.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Who is the new MP Designer? It seems to keep getting reposted.

You trying to bait HaloGAF to discuss your new job?

 

[xxjuicesxx]

You trying to bait HaloGAF to discuss your new job?

I wanna know if I should BELI343!

 

[User 73706]

When I start up Stalker Industries it's all you bro.

over is gonna kill you for differentiating "competitive" and "fun"

 

[Steelyuhas]

I wanna know if I should BELI343!

BELI343 in yourself

 

[xxjuicesxx]

BELI343 in yourself

So deep.

 

[Omni]

You trying to bait HaloGAF to discuss your new job?

Some could say that he's a master baiter

Spoiler

yeah

 

[Ramirez]

I think you're being sarcastic, but I'd rather play a Halo that Ghaleon, Kyle, Juices, Dax, Ramirez, and others sign off on, than what some random focus testers or even what 343 constitutes a good Halo.



Doubt it. He'll say yeah we played it, they did a fantastic job and made it their own. It's hard taking over from a studio, and it's hard seeing someone else develop the IP you created, but we did all we could with Halo and were now focused on Destiny.

2 of these things are not like the others.

 

[kittens]

I kinda want to try no sprint / thrusters only customs now.

 

[Madness]

LOL how did you come to these players? Just curious is all.

Eh just random names I guess. Lot of great posts over the years, played enough Halo to know what's good.

It was more in response to Cyclone writing those three names. But I could have easily said Booshka, The Henery, Trasher, Steelyuhas, Booties, BigShow, and many others of HaloGAF.

Of course pro players developing and signing off would be best, but I thought it was more taking the piss and I meant to say, a Halo game that Ghal, Kyle, Juices sign off on and agree is good, is probably one I'd like as well.

 

[kittens]

We're dangerously close to writing HaloGAF fan fiction here.

 

[Syphon Filter]

That mark v looks better than any armor in halo 4 lol. i like the black skin around them without the bumps and stuff. Weapons skins are a dumb idea.

 

[heckfu]

We're dangerously close to writing HaloGAF fan fiction here.

Kittens slowly approached his controller, panting from the excitement of the new developers. Pressing his hand firmly against the plastic wrap, humid from the warmth of his breath, he felt emotions for Juices he hadn't felt since...

CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE!!!!!

 

[User 73706]

We're dangerously close to writing HaloGAF fan fiction here.

Welp, it's getting late. Looks like I'm off to wipe the heckfu/sai smut off my harddrive finish writing a perfectly legitimate megapost.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Kittens slowly approached his controller, panting from the excitement of the new developers. Pressing his hand firmly against the plastic wrap, humid from the warmth of his breath, he felt emotions for Juices he hadn't felt since...

CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE!!!!!

Well, there's not coming back from reading that

 

[Mace Griffin]

So how many of you think 343 will remove all these bad elements(AA's, custom loadouts, perks, ordnance drops, etc...) for Halo 5?

Remove or at least have a decent classic playlist at launch with none of the elements mentioned.

The game needs to be designed around classic Halo and arena shooter gameplay for it to be a good Halo. You can't design a game around all that rubbish and then have a playlist without it and expect it to be good when every aspect of the game is designed with these features in mind.

Halo Reach and Halo 4 are both good examples of this, even if you take the poor features out of the game whats left isn't very good at all.

The energy of the developers needs to be put into actually thinking about arena shooter gameplay rather than accommodating the latest gimmicks. For example:

• Have weapons with an actual skill gap that reward practice and mastery
• Focus on balancing weapons properly, both against each other and in terms of power vs skill required to use effectively
• Develop the movement system with actual depth, not gameplay breaking gimmicks like sprint. Just fast movement and fluid jumping would be a huge improvement but bunny hopping or a recharging speed boost that affects purely movement like shootmania are other ideas
• Design maps that actually promote some sort of meta-game and actually spend time thinking about how a map is likely to play
• Design the game around meritocracy, with a large population and trueskill matchmaking its a non-issue if some players are better than others - it worked just fine in Halo 3
• Bring back power-ups on the map so that players have to factor them into their overall strategy along with power weapons rather than the current random mess where nobody has any idea who's got/might have what when
• Remove any unnecessary randomness such as random bullet spread and make everything as consistent as possible
• Provide players with a game that provides as much freedom to the player as possible so that what makes the game great is what the player potentially can do with it rather than forcing in these restrictive gimmicks

 

[link1201]

... Weapons skins are a dumb idea.

They don't screw with the game play which makes them OK in my book..

 

[Ken]

They don't screw with the game play which makes them OK in my book..

they're taking up valuable disc space that the red x could have used

 

[kittens]

I'm playing Reach for the first time in a while, and damn, the UI is so nice. Even in-game everything is crisp, clear, and easy to read.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

This is how Wired Reflexes works in Shadowrun, only it damages you to balance it out. You can use it like a pro and strafe around people and out shoot them close up, you just have to be careful not to hurt yourself too much.

It's not like Thrust in the sense where it is an independent ability, that takes control over your character for the time it is used. You can combo it with a lot of other abilities and just general movement as well. Increase your jump height or length, use it to book the fuck out of somewhere very quickly, lengthen your glide, gust jump or teleport. All kinds of fun stuff that takes practice and improvisation.

This is what Murder Miners does for the quick dash; it takes away part of your health (you recharge it quickly) while your shield isn't impacted.

It's not about direct kill/be killed power, it's omniscience at the press of a button. It's the power to stop a flag sneak with a single ping. It's the removal of any kind of actual awareness, team communication requirements, or predictive capability because you can see enemy movement and spawning with almost literally zero effort. The other awful abilities break a lot of the moment-to-moment action verb scenarios that Halo has. But at its core, I think PV is the ability that I find to be the most out of line with what Halo is because of how completely it destroys so many meta-level skills. At the very least, it's tied with camo for that spot as far as I'm concerned.

If Camo is an AA in Halo 5..

The game needs to be designed around classic Halo and arena shooter gameplay for it to be a good Halo. You can't design a game around all that rubbish and then have a playlist without it and expect it to be good when every aspect of the game is designed with these features in mind.

Halo Reach and Halo 4 are both good examples of this, even if you take the poor features out of the game whats left isn't very good at all.

The energy of the developers needs to be put into actually thinking about arena shooter gameplay rather than accommodating the latest gimmicks. For example:

• Have weapons with an actual skill gap that reward practice and mastery
• Focus on balancing weapons properly, both against each other and in terms of power vs skill required to use effectively
• Develop the movement system with actual depth, not gameplay breaking gimmicks like sprint. Just fast movement and fluid jumping would be a huge improvement but bunny hopping or a recharging speed boost that affects purely movement like shootmania are other ideas
• Design maps that actually promote some sort of meta-game and actually spend time thinking about how a map is likely to play
• Design the game around meritocracy, with a large population and trueskill matchmaking its a non-issue if some players are better than others - it worked just fine in Halo 3
• Bring back power-ups on the map so that players have to factor them into their overall strategy along with power weapons rather than the current random mess where nobody has any idea who's got/might have what when
• Remove any unnecessary randomness such as random bullet spread and make everything as consistent as possible
• Provide players with a game that provides as much freedom to the player as possible so that what makes the game great is what the player potentially can do with it rather than forcing in these restrictive gimmicks

Great post.

 

[Poker Face]

So how many of you think 343 will remove all these bad elements(AA's, custom loadouts, perks, ordnance drops, etc...) for Halo 5?

Remove or at least have a decent classic playlist at launch with none of the elements mentioned.

As of right now, I'm probably not going to get the next Halo game. I don't have any faith that 343 will make a great Halo game. I'm fully expecting Infinity Slayer to make a return, and BTB Infinity Slayer to have vehicle ordnance drops, like in TitanFall.

This is the first time that Halo is not my reason for buying a xbox.

 

[kittens]

It's weird. I'm two games into Reach and I already feel inspired to capture a moment in theater mode. I rarely feel like doing that with Halo 4. Part of it is that in Halo 4 so many of my kills and deaths are thanks to random power weapons, but there's something more to it. I dunno.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Yea Reach is good, had a rocky start last night and my modem died.

Still I think the next Halo is probably doomed. Unless you know, I get to say no to stuff.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

This is awesome. Can't wait for CMT to release the Silent Cartographer.

 

[Plywood]

Yea Reach is good, had a rocky start last night and my modem died.

Still I think the next Halo is probably doomed. Unless you know, I get to say no to stuff.

you get to say no

they won't listen anyway tho

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Some replies to your post mate:

For example:

• Have weapons with an actual skill gap that reward practice and mastery
  BR, Carbine, Light Rifle are all skill based weapons since tuning. The LR is one of the most interesting weapons in multiplayer now and the BR returns solo power play as well as team firing aspects plus CQC abilities too.
  
• Focus on balancing weapons properly, both against each other and in terms of power vs skill required to use effectively
  I would argue the Halo 4 balancing now of weapons is superior to any previous Halo title and provides a wider range of weapons that players actually use in a variety of gametypes. In CE it's all pistol, in Halo 2 it was BR dominance, in Halo 3 BR dominance again, in Reach the DMR was king and in Halo 4 we now have choices that we can win encounters with regardless of the other players weapon choice.
  
• Develop the movement system with actual depth, not gameplay breaking gimmicks like sprint. Just fast movement and fluid jumping would be a huge improvement but bunny hopping or a recharging speed boost that affects purely movement like shootmania are other ideas
  Playlists cater for this, now they just need to create maps specific for playlist settings e.g. some that factor sprint or jetpack loadouts and others that factor no sprint gametypes.
  
• Design maps that actually promote some sort of meta-game and actually spend time thinking about how a map is likely to play
  I agree map design could use some work and has been better in quality and quantity in previous titles, there are some great Halo 4 maps stuck in the DLC population issues. More Halo 2 style maps and one sided OBJ please. I'd even go as far as postulating many of the issues from the mechanics like sprint etc are due in part more to the map design than the mechanic itself.
  
• Design the game around meritocracy, with a large population and trueskill matchmaking its a non-issue if some players are better than others - it worked just fine in Halo 3
  TrueSkill is exactly for this. I suspect the ranked vs social split returning is the best solution to this.
  
• Bring back power-ups on the map so that players have to factor them into their overall strategy along with power weapons rather than the current random mess where nobody has any idea who's got/might have what when
  Playlists once again. I'd go for on map weapons for 50-75% of playlists with Infinity style drops for the rest. Just reduce the random selection and make them tiered fixed drops for the PO style playlists. All other "classic on map" playlists are fine with the previous games systems. We've already seen a return of such features in doubles, throwdown, CTF, BTB Pro etc.
  
• Remove any unnecessary randomness such as random bullet spread and make everything as consistent as possible
  I agree consistency is preferred but spread helps with range and allows a weapon to have its place e.g. BR mid range king and DMR/LR long range king. Generally speaking these sorts of effects are to account for online play and making things "fair", otherwise the Halo 2/3 days of precision dominance return.
  
• Provide players with a game that provides as much freedom to the player as possible so that what makes the game great is what the player potentially can do with it rather than forcing in these restrictive gimmicks
  I agree with this statement, bring back solo skills like trick jumps, slide jumps, more strafe acceleration, strafe dodge, melee not so easy to connect,
  

 

[Tawpgun]

People who think maps are the reason sprint/jet pack or other stuff is so bad are dum dums

 

[HTupolev]

It's weird. I'm two games into Reach and I already feel inspired to capture a moment in theater mode. I rarely feel like doing that with Halo 4.

You know that moment in Halo 4 when you jump off the Spire and intercept the enemy banshee, securing victory for your team?

Me neither.

 

[Garrett 2U]

If Camo is an AA in Halo 5..

Please no.
No Jetpack either, please.

I can't really deal with camo and jetpack anymore.

 

[gAg CruSh3r]

Please no.
No Jetpack either, please.

I can't really deal with camo and jetpack anymore.

I could not agree with you more!

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

People who think maps are the reason sprint/jet pack or other stuff is so bad are dum dums

Postulate: Suggest or assume the existence, fact, or truth of (something) as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.

Pity your comments, once again, have no discussion value. What a great way to contribute to discussion mate.

 

[Fracas]

How do you balance a map around players being able to see through walls or turn invisible?

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Postulate: Suggest or assume the existence, fact, or truth of (something) as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.

Pity your comments, once again, have no discussion value. What a great way to contribute to discussion mate.

no u

ur a dum dum

Sprint + Jetpack can be good in customs, but not in competitive matchmaking.

 

[Booshka]

How do you balance a map around players being able to see through walls?

Give players the ability to Teleport through those walls.

Shadowrun Swag

 

[orznge]

no u

ur a dum dum

Sprint + Jetpack can be good in customs, but not in competitive matchmaking.

just a reminder that someone at 343 literally 100% genuinely concocted the idea "wallhack with a cooldown" and other members of a design team said "yes, that is a good idea that we will implement"

 

[orznge]

trying to balance maps around [whatever hamfisted lorename the wallhack has] is like trying to shoo flies away instead of just taking our your month-old stinking garbage bag

 

[User 73706]

How do you balance a map around players being able to see through walls or turn invisible?

add in Heat Man-styled walls that teleport in location on a frequent, predictable basis.

Add in more Cold Storage Giant Monitors that track player movement.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

How do you balance a map around players being able to see through walls or turn invisible?

Potentially the same way you balance power weapons players pick up or PO'd, player choice. A player can choose to simply back away from PV, bait/feint PV, avoid actually being spotted through elevation or attack vector, anti-PV mod etc.

When you meet an enemy in say Halo 2 and then see they have rockets out or on their back you make choices based on that. When I hear PV pings or see them on radar I make choices to counter that. Sometimes I use mods to counter them and sometimes I select playlists without PV enabled too.

Choice is my answer. Team work also works well against PV or even...wait for it...counter PV with PV.

 

[Poker Face]

Potentially the same way you balance power weapons players pick up or PO'd, player choice. A player can choose to simply back away from PV, bait/feint PV, avoid actually being spotted through elevation or attack vector, anti-PV mod etc.

When you meet an enemy in say Halo 2 and then see they have rockets out or on their back you make choices based on that. When I hear PV pings or see them on radar I make choices to counter that. Sometimes I use mods to counter them and sometimes I select playlists without PV enabled too.

Choice is my answer. Team work also works well against PV or even...wait for it...counter PV with PV.

Or you just remove the ability that allows players to see through walls.

 

[Karl2177]

Or you just remove the ability that allows players to see through walls.

but but but how will you counter the ability that allows players to go invisible at will?