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Halo |OT4| Trust's a Tough Thing to Come by These Days

D

daedalius

Member
Computron said:
I joined GAF to get some community playdates (H2 Vista night went alright I guess, how about this upcoming month guys?) and discuss Halo and Halo art.
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I think we joined the wrong place.

Original matrix was great, subsequent movies were... meh to bad.

Overdoz1z said:
If Halo 3 had Reach's netcode (and a hitscan BR wouldn't hurt either) I'd play that game over Reach any day.
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I agree with over on something. madness.

I still play h3 by myself, I only get on reach to play with others.
 
B

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Computron said:
I joined GAF to get some community playdates (H2 Vista night went alright I guess, how about this upcoming month guys?) and discuss Halo and Halo art.

But so far, everyone wants to fight and practically no one actually plays the game. I'm up for any Halo game, Reach or earlier games, Hyper Competitive or co-op, they are all fun.

Less fighting, more scifi awesomeness:



So Frankie, my Friend that I watched Alien with really wanted to see the sequels before Prometheus so I ended up watching Aliens with him and now I am wondering why you recommended against that?

The colonial marines, Sergeant Apone, Bishop, and my new favorite character Ripley, the self proclaimed "Rambolina" where all AWESOME.

Plus, now I get this whole entire page of Aliens References in the Halo series

(That's a pretty influential series!)



(The list goes on a lot longer BTW)

My suspicion that the sequel would be more action focused rather than horror was correct and was a lot better than I expected. I'm glad I watched the sequel.


I've been on a scifi watching spree lately, Moon, Hitchhikers Guide, The Halo Animes, Aliens, Tron. I'm going to go watch Total Recall now I think.


-----------------------------------


I got a question, for those of you who watched the Matrix Trilogy. Do you think the last 2 movies ruined the series for you as so many people say? I hear it's the polar opposite of Aliens, and they spoon feed you every detail, leaving nothing for the imagination.

So far I've only seen the first one. Wondering i'f I should go all the way.
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The problem with Aliens is it "devalued" the Alien. You go from a single indestructable highly intelligent entity that strikes fear into anyone that comes in contact with it (Alien) to a species that's disposable and only "slightly smart" and can only "win" by flooding and overwhelming its enemies (Aliens.)

That said, I loved both, but Aliens definitely takes away from the Xenomorph.

As for Matrix, they really should have stopped after the first one.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
Halo: Reach was an attempt to stop this repetition with the introduction of Armor Abilities. Were there some flaws in them? Absolutely. Was it change for the sake of change? Absolutely. Does that make it inherently bad? By no means.
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I think your missing a valuable point.

Is change for the sake of change bad? By no means.

Is change not designed with the core gameplay of Halo in mind bad? Yes potentially.

Did the change in Reach enhance the core philosophy of Halo or ignore it?

Would shoehorned change from other games that are not designed with the core philosophy of Halo in mind be good for Halo?

Change isnt bad, but so far nothing leads me to believe that the changes coming about in Halo 4 are designed to enhance Halo, rather they seem like they where influenced by games that play nothing like Halo. Evolution is fine, but that evolution needs to manage to hold onto what made halo fun for the purists. If they are not going to do that, the game can still be very damned good, but will old school Halo fans get what they want out of it?

That last one wasn't a rhetorical question, I am literally anticipating E3 to see what the design philosophy was like over at 343, did they design with the purists in mind and then evolve, or design with the mass market in mind, without being too worried about cannibilizing? I am pretty hopeful that they did the former, and based on the movement we have seen im sure im not wrong, im still absolutely skeptical and unwilling to trust though.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
monsterfracas said:
I completely agree. Out of all the Halos, this one needed it the most.
Then again, even if a beta was released and no one liked it, what could 343 even do? It'd be a little late, wouldn't it?
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Well they are doing MS testing. That is a big chunk of people that are not involved in development at all and will be playing the game. The need for a massively public beta is pretty exaggerated. Their main reasons for doing testing outside of their offices is stress network testing in real environment. At this stage in development, they aren't looking for (nor is it possible) to make radical sweeping changes to the game. Bugs will be squashed, come tweaks will be made, and they will be made regardless if 100,000 MS employees have the opportunity or if 5 million dudebros have the opportunity to play it.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
Steelyuhas said:
Well they are doing MS testing. That is a big chunk of people that are not involved in development at all and will be playing the game. The need for a massively public beta is pretty exaggerated. Their main reasons for doing testing outside of their offices is stress network testing in real environment. At this stage in development, they aren't looking for (nor is it possible) to make radical sweeping changes to the game. Bugs will be squashed, come tweaks will be made, and they will be made regardless if 100,000 MS employees have the opportunity or if 5 million dudebros have the opportunity to play it.
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I wonder how many people they've had playing the beta. Not that I consider it relevant to the internal beta's effectiveness, I'm just curious.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
TCKaos said:
Imagine taking all of the things that people like about Call of Duty -XP, customization, specialization- and then adding them to a good game. It would make a great game, wouldn't it?
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I can just tell you straight up that something like XP in the Call of Duty implementation, being that it unlocks more gameplay features at your disposal, instantly makes the multiplayer side of things worse for me. I don't play MMOs, I don't like grinding, I don't need arbitrary limitations to have options available to me. I jumped on the COD4 wagon when it was the fresh new thing, I gave it a good shake, and I didn't even get to the first prestige because of how much I hate that style of handling competitive multiplayer.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
Slightly Live said:
I love grinding in games but I'm unsure of it in Halo. Actually, I need convincing.
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I'll say that whatever conviction I have towards these practices in multiplayer, I am pretty much the complete opposite for single player/co-op ordeals and fine with carrot stick Skinner boxes full of random outcomes and whatnot. I'm very rigid and critical in what I expect out of multiplayer, but I'm very loose on single player content.
 
T

thezerofire

Banned
I think there's a difference between grinding for something and just have unlock progression. Grinding implies that it's a chore to do it, and it's repetitive, which is not necessarily going to be the case. Given how fun Halo is to play in general, I'd say it won't be much of a problem at all. Obviously it depends on the implementation though.
 
T

TCKaos

Member
bobs99 ... said:
Change isnt bad, but so far nothing leads me to believe that the changes coming about in Halo 4 are designed to enhance Halo, rather they seem like they where influenced by games that play nothing like Halo. Evolution is fine, but that evolution needs to manage to hold onto what made halo fun for the purists. If they are not going to do that, the game can still be very damned good, but will old school Halo fans get what they want out of it?

That last one wasn't a rhetorical question, I am literally anticipating E3 to see what the design philosophy was like over at 343, did they design with the purists in mind and then evolve, or design with the mass market in mind, without being too worried about cannibilizing? I am pretty hopeful that they did the former, and based on the movement we have seen im sure im not wrong, im still absolutely skeptical and unwilling to trust though.
Click to expand...

I was attempting to imply that all of these changes complimented existing gameplay mechanics, but I guess I must have ballsed that up somewhere. My apologies.

I think that Halo is clearly being influenced by other games, which I see as a great thing in this case. 343i looks to be implementing all of this stuff in such a way as to have it balanced and complimentary to the golden tripod.

I still don't see why 343i has to pander to the base, either. As long as they don't deliberately piss them off they're almost always going to be there, just give them a good game and they'll play it. That's why they're the base.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
thezerofire said:
I think there's a difference between grinding for something and just have unlock progression. Grinding implies that it's a chore to do it, and it's repetitive, which is not necessarily going to be the case. Given how fun Halo is to play in general, I'd say it won't be much of a problem at all. Obviously it depends on the implementation though.
Click to expand...
In competitive multiplayer, it is always a grind to me. I see someone at a higher level using something I like, I now want to use it, I can't until I go through X amount of matches. This makes each of them that much less enjoyable because I'm now only doing it as a means to work towards something, and of all things I really dislike that COD has popularized this concept in the multiplayer space the most.
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Overdoz1z said:
I love having to unlock weapons, perks and AAs. I wish I started off with nothing but my bare hands so I could unlock everything.
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Not sure if this is sarcasm but I actually do love unlocks. It's what keeps me playing a lot of random shooters. Heck, I jumped back in Reach so I could get that security helmet and hit Brigadier.

I love the ADD unlock system MW3 brought. You unlock things all the time.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
TCKaos said:
I was attempting to imply that all of these changes complimented existing gameplay mechanics, but I guess I must have ballsed that up somewhere. My apologies.

I think that Halo is clearly being influenced by other games, which I see as a great thing in this case. 343i looks to be implementing all of this stuff in such a way as to have it balanced and complimentary to the golden tripod.

I still don't see why 343i has to pander to the base, either. As long as they don't deliberately piss them off they're almost always going to be there, just give them a good game and they'll play it. That's why they're the base.
Click to expand...

I probably just read poorly, if you where implying that changes complimented long term Halo mechanics, then im all for those changes. Im just not a fan of what seems like changes that haven't really been innovated and custom designed to compliment what we already have in Halo.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Steelyuhas said:
Well they are doing MS testing. That is a big chunk of people that are not involved in development at all and will be playing the game. The need for a massively public beta is pretty exaggerated. Their main reasons for doing testing outside of their offices is stress network testing in real environment. At this stage in development, they aren't looking for (nor is it possible) to make radical sweeping changes to the game. Bugs will be squashed, come tweaks will be made, and they will be made regardless if 100,000 MS employees have the opportunity or if 5 million dudebros have the opportunity to play it.
Click to expand...

Also, for better or worse, 343 is clearly title-update happy compared to Bungie. Don't need a beta if you're just going to push forward with updates. They have what, 3 guaranteed map packs? That's at least 3 guaranteed title updates to add achievements for the packs when each one comes out.

If something is totally broken, I don't think you'll be waiting long for fixes.
 
T

Trey

Member
TCKaos said:
And those are my two cents.
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And you can take that to the bank.

While I'm in camp "change that shit up, it's a sequel for a reason," you still want to mind the people who don't want change in something they love, whatsoever. Which is reasonable. That's why I think 343 is making sure they nail base gameplay. The golden pyramid, movement specs, gun mechanics, ranges and defensive options will be rock solid. It's telling that about the only positive consensus we have is the base gameplay snippets we've been drip-fed are good.

If 343 hits on the foundation then they're in good position, because they can add all this extra shit which can prove to be fun or broken (or both), but it doesn't matter because you can turn it all off and play the basic Halo you know and hopefully still love.

It's a power move because they cater to the hardcore purist fans (and really, fans of good shooter gameplay), have a lot of fun shit lifted from or inspired (with a Halo spin) by other popular shooters for casuals/new fans looking for derivative gameplay, and they're trying something new with Spops. Past, present, future represented. High risk high reward.

Rickenslacker said:
I don't like grinding
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The key is to stand relaxed and let her do her thing, but move a little in rhythm to keep her interested.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Overdoz1z said:
I love having to unlock weapons, perks and AAs. I wish I started off with nothing but my bare hands so I could unlock everything.
Click to expand...

Run around trying punch other players. Halo Fight Night!

SHIP IT.

Mister Negative said:
Also, Reach's control responsiveness and FOV. Halo 3 feels a little sluggish.
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Those are the biggest factors for me not being able to play Halo 3 much anymore. Feels like I'm fighting the controller, and that FOV is claustrophobic compared to Reach.

OdysseusVA said:
Which reminds me, do we have an idea of what Halo 4's FOV is? Similar to Reach?
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Not sure, but I think people are saying it's similar to Reach's based on what we've seen. Frankie?

(Reach is 78 and H3 is 60 btw is anyone is curious. I think those numbers are right.)

Stinkles said:
Halo 4 gets one of the Into the Pixel spots:

http://www.intothepixel.com/

John Wollin Liberto representin'
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Liberto is a fucking awesome name. Congrats to the guy, that art is very cool.

FyreWulff said:
Also, for better or worse, 343 is clearly title-update happy compared to Bungie. Don't need a beta if you're just going to push forward with updates. They have what, 3 guaranteed map packs? That's at least 3 guaranteed title updates to add achievements for the packs when each one comes out.

If something is totally broken, I don't think you'll be waiting long for fixes.
Click to expand...

Very true.
 
T

thezerofire

Banned
Rickenslacker said:
In competitive multiplayer, it is always a grind to me. I see someone at a higher level using something I like, I now want to use it, I can't until I go through X amount of matches. This makes each of them that much less enjoyable because I'm now only doing it as a means to work towards something, and of all things I really dislike that COD has popularized this concept in the multiplayer space the most.
Click to expand...
I guess my point of view is why not enjoy the guns/other stuff you get to use until then? In CoD a lot of the early unlocks are the best choices in the game. And we don't even know how it's going to work in halo, but it's doubtful it's going to take more than a couple matches, if that, to unlock stuff like the BR. Sure you don't get to use everything right away, but you do get to use some fun stuff. my two cents.
 
M

Mister Negative

Member
Steelyuhas said:
Those are the biggest factors for me not being able to play Halo 3 much anymore. Feels like I'm fighting the controller, and that FOV is claustrophobic compared to Reach.
Click to expand...

Yeah, same here. I played for the first time in a while the other day and all I could think was "ugh I wish you felt like Reach, you'd be perfect"
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
thezerofire said:
I guess my point of view is why not enjoy the guns/other stuff you get to use until then? In CoD a lot of the early unlocks are the best choices in the game. And we don't even know how it's going to work in halo, but it's doubtful it's going to take more than a couple matches, if that, to unlock stuff like the BR. Sure you don't get to use everything right away, but you do get to use some fun stuff. my two cents.
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I just feel it flies in the face of what competitive multiplayer is supposed to be. If this is all about customization, let me customize it to my liking without needing to gain however much experience deemed necessary. This isn't an RPG, I'm not fighting with stats, I'm doing it with skill. Starting me off with the least amount of options is just irritating.

To me there is no right way to do this gameplay trickling unlock system, the way to do it is to have it all upfront. At best I'd only tolerate it.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
Deadly Cyclone said:
Not sure if this is sarcasm but I actually do love unlocks. It's what keeps me playing a lot of random shooters. Heck, I jumped back in Reach so I could get that security helmet and hit Brigadier.

I love the ADD unlock system MW3 brought. You unlock things all the time.
Click to expand...
I'm never sarcastic.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
A few other art pieces nominated alongside Liberto's that I thought were great:

Matt Nava for Journey:
Journey%20-%20The%20Call%20to%20Adventure.jpg
Click to expand...

William Wu for Assassin's Creed III:
Assassins%20Creed%20III%20-%20Battle%20Charge.jpg
Click to expand...

Shaddy Safadi for The Last of Us:
Last%20of%20Us%20-%20Broken%20Overpass.jpg
Click to expand...
 
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