• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo |OT9| One Final Effort Is All That Remains

I don't think Assault is going to be in the game. In refining objective gametypes, they probably saw it as too close to CTF. RIP Neutral Assault, the best gametype in Halo.

That's precisely my fear- that we're soon going to learn it's gone with a generic "our research revealed that most players were confused by Assault and didn't feel that it was different enough from CTF, blah, blah, blah..." line of reasoning attached to it.

Barf.
 

Swarmerr

Member
I know this to be absolutely, unarguably, objectively false.

I've got plenty of friends who're most certainly not 'competitive' players who hated it's implementation (or lack thereof outside of Arena) in Reach.

Thank you!

I have to say my experience is much of the same. Many of my friends when they ask me how good I was or someone else was they ask for their halo 3 1-50 rank, reach isn't mentioned.
I wonder why?
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
NeoGAF is not HaloWaypoint. HaloWaypoint has strict rules. If the magazine hits the shelves, they are allowed to talk about it.

May be trying to give the publisher lead time on sales, so information from scans is deemed verboten.

So, they can't talk info from a magazine, until the actual mag is in the shops - so early subscribers are simply banned from talking about it?

That seems silly. Do the mods get updates on when mags hit shelves to be able to lift the bans are strictly as they are enforced?

I understand way any official site would downplay leaks, but this is silly. It isn't a leak. :D
 

Arnie

Member
Anecdotal. My friends don't give a shit about competitiveness. Indeed, one of my friends seems to be hating the whole concept. And this anecdotal as well.

Maybe i should have been more clearer, majority probably don't care how the system works. Whether they like the implementation or not comes afterwards.

Yes, but you said something which's objectively false, and something your own anecdotal observations still don't support. You have no way of judging what proportion of non-competitive players care about skill based ranks, the only thing that we can say is some of them do. Contrary to your initial post.
 

Trey

Member
The question is, is that more "fun" though?

There are several pieces to your argument which I take issue with (I understand that your argument is merely demonstrative rather than an actual indication of your thoughts on the subject).

First off, lower skilled players should not be in a match against highly skilled players in a decent matchmaking environment. In fact, I would argue that skill-muddling features like bloom actually make the matchmaking environment less enjoyable. The reason being it doesn't allow the game to get an accurate picture of skill and doesn't allow the matchmaking to function properly. There's more to "skill" than shooting, and a bad players against a good player will still get handily beaten. If we add features that compress the skill-gap, its more likely that players will find themselves matched up out of their skill range.

The second issue I have is the argument that it makes the game more approachable. I disagree on the premise that bloom gives no clear indication of why a player is or isn't landing shots. Players being introduced into a new environment need clear feedback on what does or doesn't work. Bloom only adds a layer of confusion and there are much better ways of introducing players to the game that don't frustrate higher-level players.

The last point of contention is the aspect of "fun." Understandably, this is a very difficult, if not impossible, point to contend. However, I don't think the actual mechanic of bloom is what players enjoy about the shooting mechanics. What bloom does, and what players enjoy, is adds a sense of urgency and fear to firefights.

However, the cause of that urgency is where bloom and no bloom weapons are different. The sense of urgency and fear with bloom comes from the randomized nature of the encounter. It's similar to watching a roulette wheel spinning; you feel intense emotion, but in the end it's ultimately out of your control. I would rather see those emotions created through a geniune challenge presented to the player. Where each encounter is a pure match of planning, skill and excecution. That gets the bloom pumping far more than bloom does, and is ultimately a more "fun" experience.

I feel that bloom is taken into account in the "skill" displayed in game by virtue (tautologically, I know) of being in the game. It's absolutely true that the shooting aspect is a part of the whole that is skill, but in that part can reasonably lower skilled players find some success against higher skilled players. There still exists a skill gap - you still have to aim, position yourself, and maximize your use of the sandbox. But at the novice levels of Halo gameplay, one would not be able to dominate as easily through shooting alone, leading credibility to my "easing" argument. This is the extent at which "fun" is expressed.

The matchmaking would, in that case, reliably match evenly skilled players together if the other elements of Halo are properly quantified. The margin of error would not be reasonably affected by bloom mechanics for they are only truly expressed in head to head encounters.

Bloom's largest reason for implementation is to mitigate the DMR's effect at range, with a soft-pressure on the player managing its cadence. As the DMR allows players to engage at longing ranges, it must be reasonably checked.

It's not quite a luck based game considering your proficiency with the weapon is the largest determinant of the outcome. Halo must appeal to a very wide amount of players so an equalizer of sorts that still allows skill to be expressed was implemented.
 

Woorloog

Banned
That's precisely my fear- that we're soon going to learn it's gone with a generic "our research revealed that most players were confused by Assault and didn't feel that it was different enough from CTF, blah, blah, blah..." line of reasoning attached to it.

Barf.

I don't mind seeing Assault gone, it was just reverse CTF really. Easy enough to recreate via CTF too, IIRC Halo CE Assault was just reverse CTF mode. Maybe we'll see that in Halo 4?


Yes, but you said something which's objectively false, and something your own anecdotal observations still don't support. You have no way of judging what proportion of non-competitive players care about skill based ranks, the only thing that we can say is some of them do. Contrary to your initial post.
I don't call myself a competitive player yet it is exactly what i am really. I reckon your friends are as well, if they do mind how the system works.
People labeling themselves are not objective.

I do give you a point though, i didn't read your post properly and thought i was talking about something slightly different.
Maybe. Kinda hard to say, where to draw lines.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I don't mind seeing Assault gone, it was just reverse CTF really. Easy enough to recreate via CTF too, IIRC Halo CE Assault was just reverse CTF mode. Maybe we'll see that in Halo 4?

I see the argument for two and one-sided bomb, but Neutral Assault plays nothing like CTF. It was my favorite game type in the series.

I'll understand why it's gone - probably more to do with wanting to invest more in a smaller set of game types than spread resources more thinly - but I'll still be bummed.

The reason I think it's gone is, they switched Grifball to the Oddball game type. They would have kept it Assault if they could.
 
According to the french magazine:

  • Mech is called the Mantis, playable in campaign
  • New game mode called Flood (think Infection x100)
  • Flood - 2 infected players, 10 non-infected, 12 total (Flood infected Spartans shown)
  • Infected players have deadly claws for melee damage and enhanced vision

Fuck yeah, infection done right.
 

Woorloog

Banned
I see the argument for two and one-sided bomb, but Neutral Assault plays nothing like CTF. It was my favorite game type in the series.

Doesn't it? Reverse Neutral Flag. OK, there's time to disarm the bomb (depending on settings) so that does change it a bit but not that much. IMO.

Neutral Bomb is definetly better than Neutral Flag though. Not my favorite gametype though.
 
I bet Assault is gone, but the other gametype I'm wondering about is KotH. You can kinda say Conquest is like KotH, but that doesn't really work for FFA, and I KNOW they got more gametypes then Slayer, Regicide, and Oddball(and the assorted variants) for that mode.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Doesn't it? Reverse Neutral Flag. OK, there's time to disarm the bomb (depending on settings) so that does change it a bit but not that much. IMO.

No, not really. With Neutral Flag, the dynamic is about pulling the flag away from center toward your base. There's never a need to push into enemy territory unless they are going to cap, and there's a point where it's better to set up and wait for the new flag; once you've got the flag a short distance from center and toward your base, that's about all there is to it. The strategies are more limited.

Neutral Assault was a very dynamic game type where attack and defense were constantly trading places, and they would trade all over the battlefield. Fall back and regroup, or try to charge the base while the enemy is scattered? Hole up on defense or spread the field and try to intercept the carrier? Spread the field in combat, and try to sneak the carrier in on the side? Do a concerted rush at the base, or try to thin them out before sending in the carrier? Or my favorite, send in three vehicles as a distraction and try to sneak the carrier in with a stealth drop? This is a small subset of the scenarios that played out in rapid succession in a typical game.

I prefer CTF to Assault for two and one-bomb/flag variants, but the neutral versions play nothing alike.
 
Another repost of MP vid links (just put up IGN vids)
mostly just so I can keep track, but also incase anyone is LTTP

All HD youtube links

Machinima

Halo 4 Dominion Mode Multiplayer Gameplay with Aplfisher

Halo 4 Solace Map Gameplay with Nexy

Gamespot

Halo 4 - Spartan Ops, War Games, and Loadouts Interview

Halo 4 - New Dominion MP Mode Gameplay Video

IGN

Longbow - Dominion

Solace - CTF
btw this vid, incinerator cannon, holy crap

Are these all the high quality gameplay videos? I want to have a marathon of gameplay videos to watch when I get home.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCDUq8yw7Kk&feature=plcp

"There is ganna be skill based matchmaking"

Guess I'm going to be getting the LE copy. Thank you for mentioning that MM point on video Frankie!
As I said earlier, what he says here is ambiguous, and could well refer only to there being 'classic' playlists with hidden TrueSkill... same as Reach.

Incidentally, 343 broz... if you do find yourselves wondering why on earth you didn't produce something for those of us who like skill-based ranking systems, and you also find yourselves with the time and resources available to squeeze one into Halo 5, you could do a hell of a lot worse than something that adapts and builds upon Starcraft II's system.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Battle.net_Leagues

We can dream.
 

Woorloog

Banned
No, not really. With Neutral Flag, the dynamic is about pulling the flag away from center toward your base. There's never a need to push into enemy territory unless they are going to cap, and there's a point where it's better to set up and wait for the new flag; once you've got the flag a short distance from center and toward your base, that's about all there is to it. The strategies are more limited.

Neutral Assault was a very dynamic game type where attack and defense were constantly trading places, and they would trade all over the battlefield. Fall back and regroup, or try to charge the base while the enemy is scattered? Hole up on defense or spread the field and try to intercept the carrier? Do a concerted rush at the base, or try to thin them out before sending in the carrier? Or my favorite, send in three vehicles as a distraction and try to sneak the carrier in with a stealth drop? This is a small subset of the scenarios that played out in rapid succession in a typical game.

I prefer CTF to Assault for two and one-bomb/flag variants, but the neutral versions play nothing alike.

Yes, i see the differences of Neutral Flag and Neutral Assault. Which is why i prefer the latter to former.
But Neutral Assault and Neutral Reverse Flag? You try to bring the neutral flag to their base, not yours. Not very different from Neutral Assault.

EDIT duh, i wasn't clear enough in my previous post. Should have said," take "Reverse Neutral Flag", isn't that basically the same as Neutral Assault", not reverse "Neutral Flag".
 

nillapuddin

Member
Are these all the high quality gameplay videos? I want to have a marathon of gameplay videos to watch when I get home.

yeah, its the best MP vids out there, all direct feed w/commentary

there is some overlap in terms of game played, but they are all from different players
 
I notice FOTUS guy tried to assassinate a OS guy, and the animation cancelled itself. Either that was a glitch, or you can't assassinate OS guys
 
Yes, i see the differences of Neutral Flag and Neutral Assault. Which is why i prefer the latter to former.
But Neutral Assault and Neutral Reverse Flag? You try to bring the neutral flag to their base, not yours. Not very different from Neutral Assault.

The thing is, CTF with its changes for Halo 4 as it exists now is 2 flag all the time.

Neutral assault (which is what I would miss if it were gone) would play nothing like the redesigned Halo 4 CTF. It would be as different as KOTH or Oddball.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Yes, i see the differences of Neutral Flag and Neutral Assault. Which is why i prefer the latter to former.
But Neutral Assault and Neutral Reverse Flag? You try to bring the neutral flag to their base, not yours. Not very different from Neutral Assault.

EDIT duh, i wasn't clear enough in my previous post. Should have said, take "Reverse Neutral Flag", isn't that basically the same as Neutral Assault, not reverse "Neutral Flag".
Having to arm it and defend it until it explodes completely changes how it plays. With reverse neutral flag you could just kinda run into the enemy base and rush for the capture point. In Neutral Bomb you have to set up an attack a lot more. You have to get close to the arm spot, kill enemies along the way and keep them away until you've got the bomb armed and made it explode. That requires a lot more teamwork.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Yes, i see the differences of Neutral Flag and Neutral Assault. Which is why i prefer the latter to former.
But Neutral Assault and Neutral Reverse Flag? You try to bring the neutral flag to their base, not yours. Not very different from Neutral Assault.

EDIT duh, i wasn't clear enough in my previous post. Should have said," take "Reverse Neutral Flag", isn't that basically the same as Neutral Assault", not reverse "Neutral Flag".

Yeah, I understand the reversal you're going for: take something in the middle to their base vs. yours. And you're right. But even something as simple as that reversal made them play out dramatically differently, which is what I elaborated on. The need to enter the enemy base and hold it for a bit changes the game to an enormous degree. None of the scenarios I described play out in CTF.

But in truth, since that was the only of the three variants to really play differently than CTF - there are differences, but relatively small - that I can see the rationale for killing Assault. But I'll miss by beloved Neutral. :(

Negatory. If 343 did Assault, you'd have a KILL Waypoint o'er your helmet.
Hah, I almost made that joke. :lol
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
I think the Orange shit in the middle of Solace acts as both a lift and a kill zone. I did see a play back into it and get sucked up. My guess is you can use it to jump across or from the bottom to top but get too close and it will kill you. If that's the case, sign me up. Sounds cool.
 
Top Bottom