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Halo |OT9| One Final Effort Is All That Remains

Fuchsdh

Member
I just want a cake without all-caps icing writing all over it, but they tell me you don't notice the bad taste after gagging down a few mouthfuls.

Yeah I don't think I'd be as bothered if it weren't styled as all-caps and was like normal (classic) Halo status messages.

I'd just like all the designers in a round table and we could have a civil discussion about all the visual stuff. I'm genuinely willing to be swayed by their reasoning, given that they clearly spent a lot of time prototyping and testing things, but from where I am I really can't see some of the rationales.

Wooh, top page. Now my dithering can be seen by all. I should prolly just write out a 2000 word essay on my mixed and conflicted feelings and get it out of my system so I don't end up repeating myself on every forum about this.
 

Gui_PT

Member
People enjoy it

It has been thoroughly tested







Reach_MP_ZealotArmorLock.jpg







While people haven't played the game, it's completely understandable that they have worries about ideas that sound bad. Because they may actually be bad. Even if people liked them and they were tested.
 

JHall

Member
Hey, everybody, get in here! Time for the white text argument again!

To be honest. Though I don't like it, after playing so many games with text in the middle (BF3/CoD). It doesn't bother me as much as not being able to drop the flag.
 
So because people like the game in focus tests - as they did with Reach - this is why we can't disable HUD elements and play regular CTF? What?

Because you'll simply learn to not hate it.
How Kylej Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the White Text.


Not going to lie, most of the time in BF3 I simply ignore the text, and when I notice it, it is because something muthafuckin crazy happened and I missed it on screen.
The only difference is that in Halo I'll be able to go back into theater and look at what happened.
 

JackHerer

Member
Will it be perfect? No of course not, it's 2012 and Halo has too many types of player to make absolutely everyone perfectly happy, but that's an impossible task anyway. Our job is to make a game that appeals broadly AND deeply and to give players tools and varieties of experience that get as close to those ideals of taste and style as possible.

Eagerly awaiting the extensive custom game and UI options that will be in the game. Or am I interpreting this incorrectly?

I am all for appealing to new players and bring Halo back to a new peak in popularity. I am actually excited to see what the online player count of Halo 4 is when it gets released and in the following months.

It just seems logical to include some of these customization options that people are asking for because it would in no way negatively impact the experience of the broader player base that you are going after. I think there are enough people (generally those who are not new to the series) who would appreciate them to make the effort to include them worthwhile.
 
Why will 314 keep catering to the white text lovers instead of the invasion pro lovers who are the real halo fans?

RIP HALO

Edit: lol kylej
 

BigShow36

Member
Firstly, you're using a kind of straw man - that this stuff is "nonsense." Now you may not like it, but you should at least acknowledge that some people will actually really enjoy it. We happen to know this for a fact. And there's still a possibility, that you might actually enjoy this new stuff, or that it will simply fade from your area of botherment.

You should also acknowledge the following - that the MP has performed incredibly well in large scale and focused testing, and that many different constituents have reported excellent experiences, including pro and competitive players, even in the new stuff. This is hard empirical data, not us thinking Bravo smiled three times in a game of Infinity Slayer, but acres and acres of intensive test metrics and reports.

Secondly, the addition of lots of new players will provide many, many general improvements - better hosts, more player skill ranges, better banding and matching of players by skill and interest - even if those players are like you and presumably want a more stripped down experience. All boats rise of the tide.

Will it be perfect? No of course not, it's 2012 and Halo has too many types of player to make absolutely everyone perfectly happy, but that's an impossible task anyway. Our job is to make a game that appeals broadly AND deeply and to give players tools and varieties of experience that get as close to those ideals of taste and style as possible.

Thirdly, the logic of making a very narrowly focused game at the exclusion of all else would obviously be something that's managable at an Indie level, or as a PC game, but the reality of making a AAA console game, and the reality of a constantly evolving and growing Halo, is that it cannot be created as a niche game. However, it does contain niche ingredients and tools, within the very very broad suite of features and play experiences. You can in fact have your cake and eat it. But the idea that more players is bad, or that the core game is being dumbed down, is erroneous.

/SaturdayMorningSalt


I have no problem encouraging new players and helping them out. What I take issue with is the apparent assumption that the only way, or the best way, to do it is by adding as much crap to the HUD as possible.

Did people really not know when they pick up an overshield? I'm sure it's happened in the past a couple of times, but not enough to necessitate a text overlay and voiceover every time it happens for everyone. I get that some of this stuff is confusing to a brand new Halo player, but I strongly disagree that putting everyone in constant tutorial mode is the best way to accomodate them.
 
I realized I haven't posted my thoughts on all the new information that's been released, so I might as well do so now.

I think Dominion has a lot of promise. It's noticeably different from Halo gametypes of the past. The only other gametype that has come close to utilizing the space of the maps to such a degree is Invasion, and Dominion seems far more dynamic than that. In objective games like Capture the Flag and Assault, you have a designated red base and blue base. Aside from the Elephants on Sandtrap, the bases have always been static. Unmovable. Making the objective of the gametype areas of the map – buildings, in Longbow's case – with the ability to upgrade said areas, means that this gametype is going to be in a constant state of flux to a greater degree than any gametype we've seen in Halo. It seems it's going to be unlike anything we've played in Halo multiplayer before.

Solace looks great. Reminds me a lot of Guardian. Jungle and Forerunner. Hopefully this is playable at NYCC. :p

I love the environment being show in Spartan Ops. Stuff like this makes me really excited to play it. Though I do have some concerns about vehicle combat in Halo 4 because the game seems to have incorporated Reach's vehicle/player health system – and this concern stretches to campaign and multiplayer. Much of the enjoyment from Spartan Ops is going to depend on the netcode, though, and 343 hasn't been too vocal on the improvements they've made over Reach's Firefight. Hopefully we hear more about that before release. I'm really looking forward to all the different types of missions we're going to get through Spartan Ops. I think, if the netcode is good enough, having a variety of missions will further extend the life of that co-op experience it's (and Firefight was) trying to fill.

As for campaign...I've already voiced my concerns about the mech, so I won't get into that here. Seeing sprawling environments of this magnitude certainly get me excited. Story looks very promising, which I'm quite happy about. From the snippets we've seen, the Forerunner structures in the game are a different style of the same theme we've come to associate with that alien architecture. They look far busier in terms of lights and their designs than the Forerunner structures of prior Halo games – probably a result of 343 trying to create a living Forerunner world, as they have said Requiem is.
 

TheOddOne

Member
I really hate all the catering towards new players. I really don't care about them and non of the stuff added sounds good to me. If all the nonsense added to the game, just for new players was removed and it'd mean less people playing the game, I'd take that trade instantly. I'm still able to find matches in Reach in less than 2 minutes, even in playlists with less than 1000 players.

You have to take perspective that every Halo game has tried to cater to new players. No doubt that people took offense to changes in Halo 3, ODST and Reach but change is needed and for most part have grown the franchise. If nothing had changed we would have not gotten substantially new (i.e. Grenade Launcher, Active Roster) and every game would be a carbon copy of the last one. Trust me, we would be bitching about nothing new being added to the Halo franchise.

The debate about change is often sided with sarcastic remark that change is done for the sake of change. This is just very narrow and dismissive stance to take. Either they changed some stuff and leave the rest unchanged, which looks sloppy and phoning it, or they change everything to fit their style and their though process. Not that I’m defending some of the changes, but it’s understandable that they made the changes they wanted – it’s their game. Not to demean you or anything Ninja, but the above explanation is pretty much the only logical explanation for the changes.

Still the HUD is way to cluttered and god damn what have they done to CTF.

In before somebody calls me out for being leader of Team SLURP.
 

L1NETT

Member
For UK HaloGAF: http://xboxavatargear.com/2012/09/22/halo-4-mountain-dew-energy-avatar-suit-promotion-uk-only/

Mountain Dew is having a Halo 4 promotion where you can win 40 copies of the game or Avatar gear per day, or the grand prize of flying to Seattle to hug Frankie and friends.

If you guys get Avatar stuff hook us up!

Thanks very much, entering my codes now. Will give away codes If I get any ;-)

Do we have an ETA on flood information? That mode sounds exactly what a Halo infection mode should be about.
 

JHall

Member
@kylej

You forgot a really important one.

People love it, it's been thoroughly tested and doesn't break maps. At all.

36845.png
 
After watching the wohlo Dominion match it was pretty clear, why won't Jeff just shut the fuck up seriously?

BRAVO RESUPPLIED!

It would be nice to be able to turn verbosity down on the announcer. And disable white text/point display smack the middle of the HUD.

But since the game is probably gold at this point, unless they added it as an option, I'll have to live with it.
 
I was playing battlefield 3 yesterday and got a kill... a HUGE Star, like a Star the size of the entire screen popped up, shit was ridiculous because I would have easily gotten a second kill if it just disappeared.

Worst thing was I was in a Jet, that Star blocking my vision almost made me crash the thing lol. The star wasnt even transparent, cant see through the thing at all. Oh and that star was followed by a 'rank up' message, apparently I unlocked something that has a icon the size of America. So my screen was blocked for another bunch of time.

Yeah, I dont really mind white text in games, but Battlefield 3 absolutely takes the cake.
 
I was playing battlefield 3 yesterday and got a kill... a HUGE Star, like a Star the size of the entire screen popped up, shit was ridiculous because I would have easily gotten a second kill if it just disappeared.

Worst thing was I was in a Jet, that Star blocking my vision almost made me crash the thing lol.

Oh and that star was followed by a 'rank up' message, apparently I unlocked something that has a icon the size of America.

Yeah, I dont really mind white text in games, but Battlefield 3 absolutely takes the cake.

It's brilliant! It gets harder to see the more kills you get, so it's balanced!

To those saying the white text disappears: are we talking literally just like all the other "HOLD the X button to pick up the weapon you nitwit" text in the past games, or proverbially, as in "you won't notice it the third game you play?"
 

nillapuddin

Member
It's brilliant! It gets harder to see the more kills you get, so it's balanced!

To those saying the white text disappears: are we talking literally just like all the other "HOLD the X button to pick up the weapon you nitwit" text in the past games, or proverbially, as in "you won't notice it the third game you play?"

In my experience with BF, I barely notice it, and considering its wayyy more intrusive than any of these little text messages, Im not worried

Also, its easy to get hung up on it while your watching, because your not thinking of the hundred other things you have to be while playing

sprinting, shooting, nading, teabagging, capping flags, etc

your just sitting there watching and your brain focuses on stuff like that because its new

Id go as far to say I barely notice it in the videos I watch anymore
 

Blueblur1

Member
I've been able to watch some of the videos and I can say that I'm extremely excited for the game. But I share the same concerns some of the other guys do. The lack of confirmation on whether or not Classic CTF exists in Halo 4, the lack of customization options such as being able to remove the white text, and the constant jabbering of the announcer are all valid concerns, in my opinion. Regardless, I'm trying to reserve judgement for launch day instead of getting upset. I got upset over the sound changes and it served no purpose. So I recommend everyone try to relax and give constructive criticism while tempering your expectations at the same time.
 

Talents

Banned
Really?

Some people might have autistic friends/relatives.

I still don't get how it is offensive. I mean, it's not like he's taking the piss out of them for having the disease. That would be offensive, but comparing a new player to an autisic child, I see no offense in that.
 
Just a post to say I love the medals' more unified redesign and think they have never looked better.

As visual cues they are pretty useless though.

The reason medals work so well is because they have a unique design, you can see from your peripheral vision that you just got a yellow medal... awesome just got double kill. The blue medal that pops up next to it shows that you just got a triple. If another medal pops up and its circular you know that's another multikill you just got, if its something else then you know you got a scenario specific kill, perhaps a killjoy.

Having a clear visual design and grouping just types of medals which are similar is integral to good cue design. Setting aside an area and allowing people to quickly know what they just did based on how many cues pop up in that area is also good cue design.

If the white text is designed in such a way that veteran players quickly don't notice it, how are they going to know what they just did? I suppose Stiezers constant nagging/shouting will help with that but if im in party chat I dont want to rely on audio cues. Besides with the amount he goes on I will probably zone him out after a while anyway.

Text cues are proven to be worse than pictorial cues, (for obvious reasons). I can also probably dig up studies showing that audio cues are less effective than visual cues. Which is why I would be pretty damn sad if medals are gone. They where a much subtler way of showing the same information.
 
Firstly, you're using a kind of straw man - that this stuff is "nonsense." Now you may not like it, but you should at least acknowledge that some people will actually really enjoy it. We happen to know this for a fact. And there's still a possibility, that you might actually enjoy this new stuff, or that it will simply fade from your area of botherment.

The nonsence I was talking about was all the UI added to the game (just making sure we're talking about the same things), seemingly for newer players that don't understand the game that well. I don't think that I can really enjoy white text in the middle of the screen, Steizer announcing the things I do nearly twice as much as in previous games or constant waypoints telling me to do stuff. I can do and already do all these things myself without anyone telling me to do it and I can't think of an instance where I wasn't sure what I just did. It may not be that bad but I'm pretty confident it won't add to my enjoyment.

If some players like it and find it helpful, great! But please give more experienced players who feel like they don't need all these things the chance to turn it of. If necessary, do it in a patch (and patch in classic CTF options if you're doing a patch anyway)

You should also acknowledge the following - that the MP has performed incredibly well in large scale and focused testing, and that many different constituents have reported excellent experiences, including pro and competitive players, even in the new stuff. This is hard empirical data, not us thinking Bravo smiled three times in a game of Infinity Slayer, but acres and acres of intensive test metrics and reports.

Secondly, the addition of lots of new players will provide many, many general improvements - better hosts, more player skill ranges, better banding and matching of players by skill and interest - even if those players are like you and presumably want a more stripped down experience. All boats rise of the tide.

Will it be perfect? No of course not, it's 2012 and Halo has too many types of player to make absolutely everyone perfectly happy, but that's an impossible task anyway. Our job is to make a game that appeals broadly AND deeply and to give players tools and varieties of experience that get as close to those ideals of taste and style as possible.

But if you want to give the players the tools to play the game as they want, why don't add the option to play classic CTF? I know it's only one small thing but it's the one thing sticking out for me as really weird. Good customization options are a really good thing and I'm glad that you guys are keeping up with that tradition.

Thirdly, the logic of making a very narrowly focused game at the exclusion of all else would obviously be something that's managable at an Indie level, or as a PC game, but the reality of making a AAA console game, and the reality of a constantly evolving and growing Halo, is that it cannot be created as a niche game. However, it does contain niche ingredients and tools, within the very very broad suite of features and play experiences. You can in fact have your cake and eat it. But the idea that more players is bad, or that the core game is being dumbed down, is erroneous.

/SaturdayMorningSalt

I'm not asking for less functions or a narrow focus on some niches in the community. BTB lovers, campaign fans, custom game fanatics should and competitive players should all be able to enjoy the game. And it's great that you guys are doing cool stuff for people who love infection or griffball. I don't really care about that stuff (maybe the new infection is fun but I can't see myself playing it a lot more if it's just Halo Reach's infection with the zombies having a different skin.).

From what I've seen, I'm not a fan of the return of AA's and the addition of modifications. I'll retain from making a final judgement until I've played a significant amount of games in a matchmaking environment. From my experience playing Halo (and I've played the game a lot), I enjoy people entering the battlefield equally and playing with the tools they are given on the map. Halo 4 doesn't seem to work with that philosophy in mind. Selecting your spawning weapon isn't that bad provided that none of them is over powered but I don't like the idea that people may have an edge over me during an encounter because they chose something (whether that is an AA or a modification).

It's just not the road I'd like to see Halo go down.
 

CyReN

Member
I still don't get how it is offensive. I mean, it's not like he's taking the piss out of them for having the disease. That would be offensive, but comparing a new player to an autisic child, I see no offense in that.

Insulting anyone with a disability, disease, etc is mostly frowned upon by people everywhere. The example used is offensive.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Jesus christ, HaloGAF is batting a thousand these days.

What?

I get my material stolen PUBLICLY and you guys go "lol kylej"?

Wha'eva

WHA'EVAH

O Portugal!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True West strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Portugal, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Portugal, we stand on guard for thee.

O Portugal, we stand on guard for thee.

;)
 
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