Support NeoGAF

[IHaveIce]

How is that an excuse?

Campaign is not put on dedis, and there was no new netcode for campaign written. It is straight up a upport from the older consoles I think, so that's why many aren't even surprised

 

[Ghazi]

Q. Why does latency affect the cooperative and multiplayer experiences in such dramatically different ways? Both gameplay modes are using the same network architecture, right?

A. We actually use different networking models for our cooperative and multiplayer games. Firefight and campaign co-op use what we call a synchronous or lockstep model, and multiplayer/Forge use a distributed model.

A synchronous model works by clients sending controller inputs to the host, who waits for inputs from all players in the game, packages them up into a single message, and sends the message back out to all the machines in the game. Each machine then uses this message to advance the state of their world by a frame, and then the whole cycle repeats. So, same inputs to the game means we all get the same outputs.

In a distributed model, the big difference is that each machine is running their “own” world, and we are keeping state synchronized between machines by sending messages about things that are changing. For example, when a player holds down their trigger to fire their SMG, we immediately fire it on their machine, and send a message to the host that the player is firing, and the host sends a message to the other machines in the game to let them know the player is firing.

So, one big difference between the two models is latency. With a distributed model most actions like firing your weapon, jumping, running, and meleeing, all feel snappy and responsive. You press the button and your player immediately does them on your screen. In the synchronous model, your input has to make its way to the host, who has to wait for all the other inputs from the other players, who then has to send a message back that you can process and then your world state can react. This means that if you are in LA and your host is in Sydney, the game will feel sluggish and unresponsive. Things like packet loss are acutely felt as well, as your inputs to the host are sent in order, and his messages back to you are sent in order as well, so the entire game needs to wait until dropped packets can be re-transmitted.

There's your reason why. Welcome to Lockstep, how may I take your order?

 

[tmac456]

My money is on Monday or Tuesday of next week.

Sorry, but the list of bugs is extensive and honestly...these things can't be microwaved. Gotta find, fix and test.

they aren't tackling every bug in this one patch

they already delayed it once and they know it needs to get done THIS week.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Fyrewulf or someone who knows more on the technical side could explain it, but I don't think its something they can improve due to how it handles the networking.

They never said they were improving the coop online experience, it was poor in 3, ODST, Reach, and CEA.

This, they didn't iron out the coop lag until Spartan ops.

 

[PanicFreak]

Tell you what they should add for H2:A. A Flood Spawning object for Forge. Just pop it in a map and it churns out flood units at a regular interval. Red Vs Blue Vs A.I Flood games.

That would be pretty sweet actually.

 

[super-heated plasma]

Playing CE solo on Heroic for the first time. Man, I had no idea this shit was going to be so hard. I think I'm toward the end of the assault on the control room mission and certain parts are frustrating as hell.

My legendary run through on CE scoffs at your heroic play. You don't' know the meaning of the word "hard" until you do that.

And I've done it several times, and it is still a nightmare in certain spots!

 

[Sordid]

There's your reason why. Welcome to Lockstep, how may I take your order?

I can co-op H2A with my brother who lives in the same town and it plays fine, CEA is a shit show though. Something must be different with it, I remember it losing sync\lagging badly on the 360 too which never happened to me with 3/ODST/Reach back in the day.

 

[HTupolev]

The campaign coop online has always been terrible. I truly don't understand the shock from people on this.

Because CE's lag is much worse than that of H3/ODST/Reach/H4.

360 CEA did everything fully synchronously, which meant that it behaved sort of like the other Halo games on that platform, except that even the right analog stick had delay.

XB1 CEA tries to eliminate the right analog stick lag... by seemingly desynchronizing the player's camera, but keeping the looking lag for all functional purposes. Which means that you have all the button lag that the 360 Halos have, and you have an extremely clumsy form of good old "shot leading lololol" lag that makes it extremely difficult to hit things when there's any strafing going on (i.e. most of the time).

I'm not sure which one I dislike more.

Can dedicated servers even solve coop lag?

In theory yes, but it would take some significant rearchitecting of the game engine.

 

[PanicFreak]

My legendary run through on CE scoffs at your heroic play. You don't' know the meaning of the word "hard" until you do that.

And I've done it several times, and it is still a nightmare in certain spots!

I decided after beating all the 360 Halo games on legendary that I will not be doing that for the MCC because it takes too long. My next legendary run will take place in Halo 5.

 

[zlatko]

This is bad. I've been eyeing this thread, and the others that came with this games release.

The review thread wanted me to get a Xbox One, and a buddy went out and got one just for this.

Boy am I glad I didn't. I'd be sitting with the most expensive paperweight ever at home.

What's worse? I'm now not at all interested in a Xbone until Gears of War 4...I could give a crap less about Halo 5 beta now too if it runs off this game disc. It's no leap that it will be a disaster online as well.

Now my holiday gift to myself is between a Vita or Wii U since I already have a PS4. Smash U vs Vita's library and being able to play my PS4 games upstairs wirelessly.

 

[VincentMatts]

This is bad. I've been eyeing this thread, and the others that came with this games release.

The review thread wanted me to get a Xbox One, and a buddy went out and got one just for this.

Boy am I glad I didn't. I'd be sitting with the most expensive paperweight ever at home.

What's worse? I'm now not at all interested in a Xbone until Gears of War 4...I could give a crap less about Halo 5 beta now too if it runs off this game disc. It's no leap that it will be a disaster online as well.

Now my holiday gift to myself is between a Vita or Wii U since I already have a PS4. Smash U vs Vita's library and being able to play my PS4 games upstairs wirelessly.

Honestly, i just got one too and im just achivement hunting in the meantime. Itll work eventually....i hope. If BF4 works, anything is possible!

 

[Greektown]

This is bad. I've been eyeing this thread, and the others that came with this games release.

The review thread wanted me to get a Xbox One, and a buddy went out and got one just for this.

Boy am I glad I didn't. I'd be sitting with the most expensive paperweight ever at home.

What's worse? I'm now not at all interested in a Xbone until Gears of War 4...I could give a crap less about Halo 5 beta now too if it runs off this game disc. It's no leap that it will be a disaster online as well.


Now my holiday gift to myself is between a Vita or Wii U since I already have a PS4. Smash U vs Vita's library and being able to play my PS4 games upstairs wirelessly.

Vita is absolute trash. The input lag on remote play is also a game breaker. Mine has been collecting dust for a year. Go with wii U

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

This is bad. I've been eyeing this thread, and the others that came with this games release.

The review thread wanted me to get a Xbox One, and a buddy went out and got one just for this.

Boy am I glad I didn't. I'd be sitting with the most expensive paperweight ever at home.

What's worse? I'm now not at all interested in a Xbone until Gears of War 4...I could give a crap less about Halo 5 beta now too if it runs off this game disc. It's no leap that it will be a disaster online as well.

Now my holiday gift to myself is between a Vita or Wii U since I already have a PS4. Smash U vs Vita's library and being able to play my PS4 games upstairs wirelessly.

Eh, this was a huge undertaking. I doubt halo 5 has the same issue. My concern is this was supposed to sell consoles and hype of the player base. It's doing the opposite.

 

[Skullface]

I wouldn't read too much into it. Expect nothing and be happ if something arises. Mostly he's saying he knows they fucked up.

I agree. I followed up with a post saying it probably meant "yeah, we know you guys are deserving of this fix ASAP".

On a positive note, 4 balanced team slayer games consecutively. I know this shits broken, but I swear things are getting better. Maybe the back end stuff took a while to work

 

[Deputy Moonman]

This is bad. I've been eyeing this thread, and the others that came with this games release.

The review thread wanted me to get a Xbox One, and a buddy went out and got one just for this.

Boy am I glad I didn't. I'd be sitting with the most expensive paperweight ever at home.

What's worse? I'm now not at all interested in a Xbone until Gears of War 4...I could give a crap less about Halo 5 beta now too if it runs off this game disc. It's no leap that it will be a disaster online as well.

Now my holiday gift to myself is between a Vita or Wii U since I already have a PS4. Smash U vs Vita's library and being able to play my PS4 games upstairs wirelessly.

It's a little early to call it a paper weight lol. I've been enjoying the game. I do matchmaking when i can get a quick game. Otherwise, I jump into CEA campaign. Knocked out a bunch of achievements and feel pretty confident the issues that are ongoing will eventually be fixed.

 

[zlatko]

Eh, this was a huge undertaking. I doubt halo 5 has the same issue. My concern is this was supposed to sell consoles and hype of the player base. It's doing the opposite.

Huge undertaking? AAA titles all are huge undertakings in this day and age.

A 10% functioning online component for a series known for its online multiplayer primarily, and it's HD updates/remakes of already done games, and it doesn't work? That's just a ton of things not going well across the board. I'd love to hear the real dirt on how this came to be.

You're right though. I'm now completely off the Xbox One hype train, and questioning Halo 5.

 

[Korosenai]

You won't need to. It will unlock eventually. I had it happen to me last night and a ton with Wolfenstein. When I stopped playing I had a GS of 960 on Wolfenstein and a couple of weeks later I noticed it bumped to 1000 GS. (It was the first game I ever 1000'd so I gave myself a little pat on the back)

It says i haven't done it at all. Usually it will say 100% unlocking then unlock later. This time it doesn't have anything on it which is weird.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Huge undertaking? AAA titles all are huge undertakings in this day and age.

A 10% functioning online component for a series known for its online multiplayer primarily, and it's HD updates/remakes of already done games, and it doesn't work? That's just a ton of things not going well across the board. I'd love to hear the real dirt on how this came to be.

You're right though. I'm now completely off the Xbox One hype train, and questioning Halo 5.

4 games on different engines, two running two engines at once, and a shit ton of features. This isn't exactly a normal game.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

Fucking wow, I'm shocked these issues are still ongoing. I'll be very surprised if the halo 5 beta isn't delayed.

 

[Stackboy]

I figure there is no point in trying matchmaking or even campaign, until everything is fixed.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Fucking wow, I'm shocked these issues are still ongoing. I'll be very surprised if the halo 5 beta isn't delayed.

I'd doubt it's delayed. It's probsbly ready to go. But we are still waiting on the big patch that was supposed to come today but was delayed till later in the week. Probably won't be fixed till then.

 

[Diablohead]

I figure there is no point in trying matchmaking or even campaign, until everything is fixed.

I've been playing Destiny again instead of Halo because of this, lol.

 

[Kibbles]

Spoiler

I thought I was safe playing campaign.

Same. Was playing co op with my buddies and the game crashed during the dual scarab battle on The Covenant. Friends left to go play CoD after that and I was

I picked up GTAV on PS4 to tide me over but the 30fps is really turning me off after exclusively playing 60fps games this past year, feels so bad.

 

[sam777]

This is bad. I've been eyeing this thread, and the others that came with this games release.

The review thread wanted me to get a Xbox One, and a buddy went out and got one just for this.

Boy am I glad I didn't. I'd be sitting with the most expensive paperweight ever at home.

What's worse? I'm now not at all interested in a Xbone until Gears of War 4...I could give a crap less about Halo 5 beta now too if it runs off this game disc. It's no leap that it will be a disaster online as well.

Now my holiday gift to myself is between a Vita or Wii U since I already have a PS4. Smash U vs Vita's library and being able to play my PS4 games upstairs wirelessly.

I am sure you will change your mind when they fix the matchmaking issues, hopefully that is sooner rather than later.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I'd doubt it's delayed. It's probsbly ready to go. But we are still waiting on the big patch that was supposed to come today but was delayed till later in the week. Probably won't be fixed till then.

I doubt we'll be getting the patch this week. It'd have to be on Friday, and with no word whatsoever, it's cutting it real close. I'm guessing it'll be next week.

I'll come back once I finish DA: I.

 

[super-heated plasma]

I decided after beating all the 360 Halo games on legendary that I will not be doing that for the MCC because it takes too long. My next legendary run will take place in Halo 5.

Then you will miss out on the achievements!

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

Yeah achievements are not even tracking. I picked up two skulls. Nothing. Check the achievement and it doesn't say it's done but unlocking. Just nothing...

 

[RoKKeR]

The campaign coop online has always been terrible. I truly don't understand the shock from people on this. Can dedicated servers even solve coop lag?

Fyrewulf or someone who knows more on the technical side could explain it, but I don't think its something they can improve due to how it handles the networking.

They never said they were improving the coop online experience, it was poor in 3, ODST, Reach, and CEA.

Its not.

When I co op CE, I have to be host because my friends connection isn't good enough to host. Mine is good enough to ensure the game is at least playable for him.

When he hosts, the game is literally unplayable.

Campaign is not put on dedis, and there was no new netcode for campaign written. It is straight up a upport from the older consoles I think, so that's why many aren't even surprised

To respond to all of these posts:

This: http://xboxclips.com/video.php?uid=2533274795608539&gamertag=Rokker%20Iv&vid=e70e42a8-7709-4fd3-a731-cb92047652b2 -- Never happened to me in Halo 3 or even Anniversary.

 

[Spades]

When achievements were not unlocking, I never got the one for completing The Library in CE - although it showed on my achievements as "100% complete, unlocking..." - I was told by many people that it'd sort itself out and unlock at some point. Well today I go in, and it's back to 0% again. WTF.

 

[mp1990]

So you guys just saved me $500 bucks lol.I was going to buy a XONE in Black Friday just for Halo MCC and Sunset Overdrive,but these problems killed it for me.I still have an X360 with all the games,so i'm least playing the campaigns without bugs.

 

[Ramirez]

To respond to all of these posts:

This: http://xboxclips.com/video.php?uid=2533274795608539&gamertag=Rokker%20Iv&vid=e70e42a8-7709-4fd3-a731-cb92047652b2 -- Never happened to me in Halo 3 or even Anniversary.

Dunno, just know I never had a good coop experience in any Halo game. Was a widely accepted opinion in the GAF community, so it's not like I'm an isolated account.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Dunno, just know I never had a good coop experience in any Halo game. Was a widely accepted opinion in the GAF community, so it's not like I'm an isolated account.

I had some great experiences with Halo 3 and ODST online, just matters who you play with. Worked fine for the most part, at least for me.

 

[Heretic]

Teaching my wife good habits in Halo 3 co-op. She is the bottom

Spoiler

screen

.

That is awesome lol

 

[Skullface]

For the first time since I left H2 back in the day, I got the high score in a TS match. Feels goodman.

 

[HTupolev]

To respond to all of these posts:

This: http://xboxclips.com/video.php?uid=2533274795608539&gamertag=Rokker%20Iv&vid=e70e42a8-7709-4fd3-a731-cb92047652b2 -- Never happened to me in Halo 3 or even Anniversary.

Assuming that you were unable to carry out any actions, I've seen that behavior before in Halo's 3 and Reach. When the network stops communicating, the game state refuses to proceed (i.e. the game is essentially paused), but the game sometimes lets you keep looking around.

Like those games (but unlike 360 CEA), MCC CEA's networking lets the client's camera asynchronously do whatever it wants, so a networking hiccup might let you keep looking around while the game is frozen.

...It's rather unusual for one of the other games to not freak out more if the network seizes up for that long though, haha.

 

[timlot]

I am sure you will change your mind when they fix the matchmaking issues, hopefully that is sooner rather than later.

Rational replies to hyperbolic post on GAF always get a slight chuckly out of me.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

There's a slight bit of irony in that both versions of Halo 2 had to be forced out the door because an exec wanted the date so badly.

So been playing a ton of Destiny after beating campaigns so I've been out of the loop. This fixed or a broken turd still?

 

[Skullface]

So been playing a ton of Destiny after beating campaigns so I've been out of the loop. This fixed or a broken turd still?

I've had about a 70% success rate with H2 classic. The rest is a mixed bag. They still haven't done anything to fix it by and large. We're waiting on a patch eta.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I've had about a 70% success rate with H2 classic. The rest is a mixed bag. They still haven't done anything to fix it by and large. We're waiting on a patch eta.

Shame to hear. 343 and Microsoft really should be ashamed.

 

[joeygreco1985]

Still waiting.

 

[Skullface]

Shame to hear. 343 and Microsoft really should be ashamed.

343 feels the shame I'm sure. Microsoft is worried about their bottom line. All in all, I imagine that there's enough reason to get this thing corrected.

 

[VASPER]

This is bad. I've been eyeing this thread, and the others that came with this games release.

The review thread wanted me to get a Xbox One, and a buddy went out and got one just for this.

Boy am I glad I didn't. I'd be sitting with the most expensive paperweight ever at home.

What's worse? I'm now not at all interested in a Xbone until Gears of War 4...I could give a crap less about Halo 5 beta now too if it runs off this game disc. It's no leap that it will be a disaster online as well.

Now my holiday gift to myself is between a Vita or Wii U since I already have a PS4. Smash U vs Vita's library and being able to play my PS4 games upstairs wirelessly.

What? so you have a PS4? like the WiiU is in far worse shape IMO than the XB1 is, sunset overdrive Forza Horizon 2 and when Master CC is fixed then you have a lot to play, and plenty to come. WiiU pretty much only has 1st party titles to rely on like nothing is coming out for that system talk about a paper weight.

 

[Calm Killer]

The complaining about this not working is so overblown. It's not like there aren't hours of gameplay outside of the multiplayer.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Which comes first?

Game works?

Thread goes to community?

 

[Ont]

This is bad. I've been eyeing this thread, and the others that came with this games release.

The review thread wanted me to get a Xbox One, and a buddy went out and got one just for this.

Boy am I glad I didn't. I'd be sitting with the most expensive paperweight ever at home.

There are plenty of games to play on X1 while they fix this multiplayer. I have been playing Sunset Overdrive, Destiny, Halo: CE singleplayer and Killer Instinct. I can't wait to jump into H2A multiplayer once that is working though.

 

[Juke Joint Jezebel]

Huh, completed all the campaigns solo on Legendary last night, and I've noticed both the achivements for completing H2A on Legendary and All campaigns on Legendary haven't unlocked. They're stuck at 92% and 97% respectively on the locked achievements tab. 5 of the level completion achievements from H2A are stuck at "Done! Unlocking" as well. I wonder if the patch this week will fix achivement unlocks.

 

[robotrock]

My Halo 3 campaign save forgot all the checkpoints I had made since the start of Chapter 8. I am p mad.

 

[Korosenai]

Huh, completed all the campaigns solo on Legendary last night, and I've noticed both the achivements for completing H2A on Legendary and All campaigns on Legendary haven't unlocked. They're stuck at 92% and 97% respectively on the locked achievements tab. 5 of the level completion achievements from H2A are stuck at "Done! Unlocking" as well. I wonder if the patch this week will fix achivement unlocks.

All campaigns solo legendary in 8 days? Godlike.

 

[Twin Tails]

yeah im not touching this game until the patch (that patch better fix), now the campaign saves are fucked dont want to redo legendary levels. Back to Forza h2

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

If BF4 works, anything is possible!

You know this is a great point. Never thought of that. I slogged through the BF4 launch... those were dark times.