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[winjer]

The problem with the "west" it's democracy and freedom. Which is a huge strength, but also a weakness.
It allows for greater creativity and innovation on all fields of human endeavor. Allowing for a society to make greater strides in science, art, politics, human rights, etc.
But it's also easy to exploit and manipulate, because authoritarian regimes and extremists can pretend to act in the guise of freedom of speech and democratic rights, while sabotaging it in the background.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

The main weakness of the west is the constant doubt of everything. If it is coming from the western area - you should doubt it. That's the main issue.

And it is easily exploited by the dogmatics.

I tend to agree. The belief in freedom of expression and freedom of ideas, while highly beneficial to forward progress, also brings with it a larger exposure to the risks of moving backwards.

Which is why it's not enough to teach STEM and other skills that directly translate to short term economic gain, it is also necessary to properly educate students about failed ideologies throughout history and to ensure they understand the reasoning behind those failures and how they may still apply to present society.

Crucially, it is important to cultivate a competitive environment of academic excellence in these more humanistic areas, because scholastic mediocrity is much more susceptible to manipulation.

 

[ADiTAR]

The problem with the "west" it's democracy and freedom. Which is a huge strength, but also a weakness.
It allows for greater creativity and innovation on all fields of human endeavor. Allowing for a society to make greater strides in science, art, politics, human rights, etc.
But it's also easy to exploit and manipulate, because authoritarian regimes and extremists can pretend to act in the guise of freedom of speech and democratic rights, while sabotaging it in the background.

I think the issue it too much freedom now. People are bored, they have no community, and they are looking for approval on everything (because that's what their parents brought them up on). They know they are basic af, but want to be special.

That's why they are virtue signaling, why they support the "current thing", why they look to Islam.

They want a sense of belonging. Individualism isn't for everyone. A lot of people get married or are in a bad relationship so they won't be alone. Most can't stand themselves or don't know how to fill the void.

Religion for all its faults, does have a sense of community, a shared vision. So while secularism is great, the need to belong to a group is still stronger and that's why we see kids looking to be a part of something.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

People in western secular society are missing a sense of purpose.
If western secular nations can adopt a more clear and common agenda that benefits humanity and is both teachable and practice-able at all levels of professional development and socioeconomic success, I think they will gain a greater degree of resilience.

The philosophical catch here is that on a superficial level, such a common agenda can easily lead to dogmatic thinking. In order to combat this trend, I think it's important to tie any common agenda to measurable and achievable goals in the real world.

This is where policy, economics and morality all meet, and should be combined with the wisdom gained by examining developments in science and technology, and no less importantly, their effects on human behavior.

 

[Havoc2049]

I think the issue it too much freedom now. People are bored, they have no community, and they are looking for approval on everything (because that's what their parents brought them up on). They know they are basic af, but want to be special.

That's why they are virtue signaling, why they support the "current thing", why they look to Islam.

They want a sense of belonging. Individualism isn't for everyone. A lot of people get married or are in a bad relationship so they won't be alone. Most can't stand themselves or don't know how to fill the void.

Religion for all its faults, does have a sense of community, a shared vision. So while secularism is great, the need to belong to a group is still stronger and that's why we see kids looking to be a part of something.

I think a modern western society needs the backbone of modern Judeo-Christian values to be healthy and thrive. The further we get away from that, the weaker we become and our enemies will take advantage of that weekness. John Adams, a Founding Father and President of the United States, stated, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

 

[winjer]

I think the issue it too much freedom now. People are bored, they have no community, and they are looking for approval on everything (because that's what their parents brought them up on). They know they are basic af, but want to be special.

That's why they are virtue signaling, why they support the "current thing", why they look to Islam.

They want a sense of belonging. Individualism isn't for everyone. A lot of people get married or are in a bad relationship so they won't be alone. Most can't stand themselves or don't know how to fill the void.

Religion for all its faults, does have a sense of community, a shared vision. So while secularism is great, the need to belong to a group is still stronger and that's why we see kids looking to be a part of something.

I don't think it's a matter of too much freedom, but rather a matter of lack of responsibility on the part of younger generations.
Like the saying goes "with great power comes great responsibility".

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I don't think it's a matter of too much freedom, but rather a matter of lack of responsibility on the part of younger generations.
Like the saying goes "with great power comes great responsibility".

I think part of this comes from how they see the absence of responsibility spread in many aspects of the adult professional world - from news, social media, entertainment, consumer products, advertising, litigation, politics, finance and more. Profit and influence have become their own rewards and have been for some time. Responsibility and accountability have become secondary concerns, important only as far as they affect the former.

 

[EviLore]

 

[EviLore]

Raw poll results:

 

[MrA]

Raw poll results:

Unfortunately what mr.hitler said was true, few remember the Armenians,
Frankly if anything the holocaust is understated, just because murder movements might start with Jews as an easy target, but they never stop there.
If Israel falls, Lebanon is next, then Egypt becomes vulnerable to fall to extremists and any advancement made in other Muslim countries could easily roll back, and spread won't stop there wither
I view Israel success as more crucial to civilization even than beating back Russia in Ukraine (and thats damn important)

 

[ADiTAR]

Unfortunately what mr.hitler said was true, few remember the Armenians,
Frankly if anything the holocaust is understated, just because murder movements might start with Jews as an easy target, but they never stop there.
If Israel falls, Lebanon is next, then Egypt becomes vulnerable to fall to extremists and any advancement made in other Muslim countries could easily roll back, and spread won't stop there wither
I view Israel success as more crucial to civilization even than beating back Russia in Ukraine (and thats damn important)

That's why all countries around us ask us to wipe them out.

 

[MrA]

That's why all countries around us ask us to wipe them out.

Almost as if Hamas and the current ideological drive of the Palestinians is a cancer, Israel eradicating Hamas is ultimately in the Palestinians best interest too,

 

[FunkMiller]

Is the holocaust still taught in schools in the USA? I'm assuming from this that it isn't?

This feels like a much, much wider problem than just concerning anti-semitism towards Jews. What the hell is going on in American schools?

 

[ADiTAR]

Is the holocaust still taught in schools in the USA? I'm assuming from this that it isn't?

This feels like a much, much wider problem than just concerning anti-semitism towards Jews. What the hell is going on in American schools?

We know what's going on, the focus is not on teaching.

 

[Thaedolus]

Raw poll results:

This combined with deepfake technology makes me think we’ll be in a cyberpunk hellscape dystopia before we even realize it. Get ready for the post-facts world folks

 

[FunkMiller]

We know what's going on, the focus is not on teaching.

What? Even at primary level? I learned about the holocaust at the age of ten in history.

EDIT: Jesus Christ. 31 states don't have mandatory holocaust education at school level.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/29/us/holocaust-marjorie-taylor-greene-states-trnd/index.html

It's literally the law to teach it in UK and Australian schools.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

With you guys talking freedoms above, the problem with too much freedom is giving it to low brow dumbasses.

If a down out dude wants to stress their view about needing money and job help thats one thing. It's different when it spews hatred and stupidity.

And there's definitely a correlation of some kind between dumb jobless/bad jobber lifers vs people who are doing better off. That's not to say people doing well cant act like idiots too (weve all seem those bigoted dentist and lawyer tweets where they rip down kidnapping posters and such), but people in this position definitely dont skew to angry mobs, killing, or climbing flag polls to take down Isareli flags. Its typically dopey young, uneducated and zero career pathers doing this.

 

[Wildebeest]

The people who are most vulnerable to conspiracy theories are those who are highly politically polarised and people who cling to childhood beliefs which they have never allowed to be challenged. I don't think there is evidence that things like being an uneducated dumb ass, a loser, having personality disorders, and so on, are anywhere near as important as those factors.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

This combined with deepfake technology makes me think we’ll be in a cyberpunk hellscape dystopia before we even realize it. Get ready for the post-facts world folks

And it will work the both ways just like usual. It is always like that - from "they are fighting the oppressors! we need to support them!" to "why our decisions are used against us???"

 

[F0rneus]

WTF at the Democrats being more into Holocaust denying. And with the constant barrage of sympathy for Islamist murderers...kinda hard to say right now that I identify with the left.

 

[Chittagong]

Not really, no.

Universities have always been historically very secular institutions. Mine certainly was back in the 90s. There's a long tradition of progressive, secular thinking, right back through the decades.

The difference now is that they are being heavily funded by ultra religious, rich, middle-eastern nations like Qatar. That's why this problem exists with anti-semitism, and pro-Hamas thinking, not because of secular sensibilities.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ons-funding-Arab-countries-past-30-years.html

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.or...can-universities-donors-recipients-and-impact

I have been thinking a lot about this lately after seeing the Harvard lady say that it depends on context whether calling genocide of Jews constitutes harassment or bullying.

Clearly antisemitism has been embedded into academia, and clearly the top institutions have been funded by Islamists.

But what is the mechanism you as a funder convert a person who ostensibly is of high education and reasonable intellectual make up, to an antisemitist?

 

[Faust]

I have been thinking a lot about this lately after seeing the Harvard lady say that it depends on context whether calling genocide of Jews constitutes harassment or bullying.

Clearly antisemitism has been embedded into academia, and clearly the top institutions have been funded by Islamists.

But what is the mechanism you as a funder convert a person who ostensibly is of high education and reasonable intellectual make up, to an antisemitist?

Money.

With a little bit of power.

 

[Thaedolus]

WTF at the Democrats being more into Holocaust denying. And with the constant barrage of sympathy for Islamist murderers...kinda hard to say right now that I identify with the left.

Combination of a couple of things

1: black and white, room temperature IQ thinking (common all over the political spectrum) and,
2: the extreme left’s devolution into breaking everything down into oppressed vs oppressor, based on one’s intersectionality points (identity), whereby the oppressed has the right to do anything to the oppressor.

Here we see identification of Israel (the (allegedly) fair skinned JeWs) as the oppressor of Palestine (PoC/colonized/genocided’ed’ed/Muslim) so Oct 7 wasn’t really that bad and anything done in response is genocide to keep the oppressor in power.

So on the extreme left it’s like…fuck any sense of right and wrong because it’s all about identity. And on the right it’s…the same thing. Both are so sure that the people they disagree with are subhuman trash, that anything goes.

Beware of anyone dehumanizing the people they disagree with in that way.

 

[F0rneus]

Combination of a couple of things

1: black and white, room IQ thinking (common all over the political spectrum) and,
2: the extreme left’s devolution into breaking everything down into oppressed vs oppressor, based on one’s intersectionality points (identity), whereby the oppressed has the right to do anything to the oppressor.

Here we see identification of Israel (the (allegedly) fair skinned JeWs) as the oppressor of Palestine (PoC/colonized/genocided’ed’ed/Muslim) so Oct 7 wasn’t really that bad and anything done in response is genocide to keep the oppressor in power.

So on the extreme left it’s like…fuck any sense of right and wrong because it’s all about identity. And on the right it’s…the same thing. Both are so sure that the people they disagree with are subhuman trash, anything goes.

Beware of anyone dehumanizing the people they disagree with in that way.

I could not have said it any better. One hell of a post.

 

[ADiTAR]

The turning or breaking point is near. Hamas terrorists are starting to surrender. Israel's pressure is strong and the moral is still high to wipe them out.

I'm sad thinking of our hostages, as we have daily info of another thought to have died in captivity. I'm not sure there will be more that'll be alive.

 

[MrA]

Students at an upstate ny middle school draped in Palestinian flags broke into a Jewish teachers room and started harassing and threatening her
Students were barely slapped on the wrist,

A few younger teachers started the occupation misinformation
An older teacher described the camp David summits agreement and asked them if that was a fair solution, they all jumped right in about how if only the Israeli would to something like that their would be peace,
The older teacher shut the teachers up with the Israelis did, in 2000 with the camp david summit and that Israel left Gaza in 2005
I know things seem utterly mad right now, but to the jews in the thread there are still people that will speak up

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Israel's pressure is strong and the moral is still high to wipe them out.

But of course. I don't see Israel suddenly deciding that it is enough and I don't see any voices to "stop" in Israel gaining any traction. Oct 7th was too much.

Still, it is crazy to think that it has been two months at this point.

 

[ADiTAR]

But of course. I don't see Israel suddenly deciding that it is enough and I don't see any voices to "stop" in Israel gaining any traction. Oct 7th was too much.

Still, it is crazy to think that it has been two months at this point.

Honestly, we are all here still on Oct 7th.

We celebrate Hanukkah which is the story of how the Jewish Maccabees defeated the greeks, but we are still in the past. Everyday there's a story. Just now, the son of the a minister in the war cabinet fell in Gaza and his nephew, it doesn't get closer than this.

 

[cormack12]

Students at an upstate ny middle school draped in Palestinian flags broke into a Jewish teachers room and started harassing and threatening her
Students were barely slapped on the wrist,

A few younger teachers started the occupation misinformation
An older teacher described the camp David summits agreement and asked them if that was a fair solution, they all jumped right in about how if only the Israeli would to something like that their would be peace,
The older teacher shut the teachers up with the Israelis did, in 2000 with the camp david summit and that Israel left Gaza in 2005
I know things seem utterly mad right now, but to the jews in the thread there are still people that will speak up

It's amazing watching how many people will just gravitate around ignorance without even doing a small bit of research. But this is the age when people run Google searches to find any scrap of online blog, that parrots what they say, and this means they are right.

Basic education has failed at this point.

The turning or breaking point is near. Hamas terrorists are starting to surrender. Israel's pressure is strong and the moral is still high to wipe them out.

I'm sad thinking of our hostages, as we have daily info of another thought to have died in captivity. I'm not sure there will be more that'll be alive.

What will happen to these monsters? Israeli jail? War crime trials? Execution?

 

[MrA]

What will happen to these monsters? Israeli jail? War crime trials? Execution?

Probably better treatment than they give to their own population

 

[cormack12]

 

[jason10mm]

There needs to be a rule that those teachers should have 20 years at minimum successful experience in the market they are teaching in.

Honestly i noticed this here also, most of the teachers had no experience in the field, they just went from student to teacher and never saw the door outside of the schools. Complete delusional as result.

This only works in soft science and liberal arts though. Most of my stem profs were researchers or former industry. No one would hire a physics prof straight outta school who wasn't doing research.

 

[LegendOfKage]

WTF at the Democrats being more into Holocaust denying. And with the constant barrage of sympathy for Islamist murderers...kinda hard to say right now that I identify with the left.

You can walk away from both, and you can look to people who are genuinely trying to mend the divide caused by these two groups. I would say a divide caused because both parties realized that you don't ever have to do anything to meaningfully improve the lives of the people who voted for you, just as long as you make people feel like voting for your party is an existential obligation and the only way to avoid catastrophe.

Your values and beliefs are more nuanced than being defined with a direction. I think that should be true of everyone.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

There needs to be a rule that those teachers should have 20 years at minimum successful experience in the market they are teaching in.

Honestly i noticed this here also, most of the teachers had no experience in the field, they just went from student to teacher and never saw the door outside of the schools. Complete delusional as result.

Every business prof I had in undergrad and grad school had real life work experience working at large companies. It was cool too, since they'd bring their real world experience working at Coke, Philip Morris or advertising firms into the mix so it wasnt pure textbook stuff. Purely going off my experience, I dont didnt see any business profs hired out of teacher's college. There were probably all at least 40 years old, except one guy who did the night classes and he was doing it PT outside of his day job. He was definitely in his 30s tops. The guy was late half the time as He's come straight from the office. lol

The coolest thing one prof brought in (it would never be in any textbook) was some data sheets he brought in. It showed what the sales increases would be pending where a product is put on a shelf. It compared different shelf heights (eye level vs top or bottom shelves), the end aisle skid of stack stuff, and the worst spot to be in the the top or bottom shelf in the corner. He brought it in, so when we did business cases studies we could use this sales analytics page as part of our essay.

He even joked that "this page will be the most important thing you get in this course". lol. Funny thing is he's right. It's the only thing I remember from that course. I dont remember the %'s on it, but working at business jobs now, his page still holds true 20 years after seeing it where the best sales come from end aisles and eye level, mid height shelves. And he was right. Being buried on a bad shelf or corner is death.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

With you guys talking freedoms above, the problem with too much freedom is giving it to low brow dumbasses.

If a down out dude wants to stress their view about needing money and job help thats one thing. It's different when it spews hatred and stupidity.

And there's definitely a correlation of some kind between dumb jobless/bad jobber lifers vs people who are doing better off. That's not to say people doing well cant act like idiots too (weve all seem those bigoted dentist and lawyer tweets where they rip down kidnapping posters and such), but people in this position definitely dont skew to angry mobs, killing, or climbing flag polls to take down Isareli flags. Its typically dopey young, uneducated and zero career pathers doing this.

I’m pretty sure it not the so call dumbass that work the 9-5 job or more. They more likely to busy and don’t care. It’s the ppl that have to much time on there hands and yet have the resources. Cause they got the education and only have to work 3 days a week. Maybe 4 but 6-8 hours on them days. But hell, I could be all wrong. Could be just 25% of all groups of ppl that just fucking batshit crazy. Beside the homeless ppl. Nobody cares to listen to them. So

 

[ADiTAR]

What will happen to these monsters? Israeli jail? War crime trials? Execution?

Prob questioning. Israeli Jail if they do get caught on something. We don't execute terrorists.

Main issue with a lot of terrorists that were caught on 10/7 is that no one wants to represent them, no on. So I dunno what they gonna do with it.

 

[LegendOfKage]

That fight went really about as well as it could for both groups. The guy who fell wasn't immediately attacked, and later when it was two against one, the two allowed the other to leave without continuing the fight. This could have been a lot worse.

 

[ADiTAR]

 

[LegendOfKage]

I'm just afraid that this ultimately is only going to result in schools reluctantly and begrudgingly pretending to add Jewish people to their list of those you can't question or disagree with in any way. They'll secretly still hate them, and the double standard will continue to be there, but if something becomes a major story they'll be forced to take action.

I don't want that. I want everyone to stand up and say "racism is horrible, and DEI ultimately creates racism. We've seen where this all leads, and we're done with it. We've seen your double standards and blatant discrimination based on preferred classes of people, and preferred races of people, and preferred political viewpoints, and we're done with it. Your garbage views literally defended people calling for the genocide of Jews. You're done. You're over. THIS is the change that people should be demanding before resuming their donations, not the firing of a single person.

As was posted earlier in the thread, I feel this woman expressed that thought quite well:

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

What will happen to these monsters? Israeli jail? War crime trials? Execution?

Hopefully interrogations that are then publicly broadcast so the world can see the ideology of Hamas for what it is. After that, they can be individually tried in court.

 

[ADiTAR]

I'm just afraid that this ultimately is only going to result in schools reluctantly and begrudgingly pretending to add Jewish people to their list of those you can't question or disagree with in any way. They'll secretly still hate them, and the double standard will continue to be there, but if something becomes a major story they'll be forced to take action.

I don't want that. I want everyone to stand up and say "racism is horrible, and DEI ultimately creates racism. We've seen where this all leads, and we're done with it. We've seen your double standards and blatant discrimination based on preferred classes of people, and preferred races of people, and preferred political viewpoints, and we're done with it. Your garbage views literally defended people calling for the genocide of Jews. You're done. You're over. THIS is the change that people should be demanding before resuming their donations, not the firing of a single person.

As was posted earlier in the thread, I feel this woman expressed that thought quite well:

The problem with the hearings wasn't about free speech, is wether that speech violated their code of conduct.

I agree DEI is a problem and it seems like some wants to segregate instead of actually just live with each other.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I'm just afraid that this ultimately is only going to result in schools reluctantly and begrudgingly pretending to add Jewish people to their list of those you can't question or disagree with in any way. They'll secretly still hate them, and the double standard will continue to be there, but if something becomes a major story they'll be forced to take action.

I don't want that. I want everyone to stand up and say "racism is horrible, and DEI ultimately creates racism. We've seen where this all leads, and we're done with it. We've seen your double standards and blatant discrimination based on preferred classes of people, and preferred races of people, and preferred political viewpoints, and we're done with it. Your garbage views literally defended people calling for the genocide of Jews. You're done. You're over. THIS is the change that people should be demanding before resuming their donations, not the firing of a single person.

As was posted earlier in the thread, I feel this woman expressed that thought quite well:

Agreed, more should be done. This letter by a prominent Harvard alum was especially eye opening to me. It contains testimonies from faculty about widespread issues regarding double standards of free speech that are much too deep to be the result of a policy of any single university president.



The letter and associated tweet were brought up by a representative from Michigan (Tim Walberg) during last week's hearing.

 

[Banjo64]

‘voluntary’ ‘we want to thank her’

disgusting pigs.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Thats dumb young people for ya.

Grown up with the gift of the internet where anyone can have fun, socialize and learn with millions of free sites at whatever pace they like. You'd think people would get smarter, not dumber.

 

[LegendOfKage]

The problem with the hearings wasn't about free speech, is wether that speech violated their code of conduct.

I agree DEI is a problem and it seems like some wants to segregate instead of actually just live with each other.

If those three school presidents wanted to honestly answer the question asked of them, they would have replied like this:

"No, I can honestly say that calling for the genocide of Jews does not violate our code of conduct regarding bullying and harassment, but only because it's not narrowly defined and targeted to a specific individual. However that never stopped us before. Despite taking federal funding, we absolutely do not protect freedom of speech and constantly selectively enforce our personal beliefs and values on our students, facility, and guests. We frequently ignore our own code of conduct, or interpret and utilize it in any way we see fit."

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Best way to beat people in power is to take away their toys (which in most cases is money and a power position). Bickering with words doesn't get far with people in power. Pulling university donations will.

No different than any company doing dumb shit with bad products or bad politics. Dont buy their products and look at that..... things change!

But let idiots continue being idiots and their stupidity lingers.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

It will never not be funny watching the same people who ran around calling everyone under the sun nazis now calling for the extermination of jews

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

It will never not be funny watching the same people who ran around calling everyone under the sun nazis now calling for the extermination of jews

Oh, I would not be surprised that if - during a chat with some of these guys - they will actually agree with nazis. After all, it is all about labels - as long as they are not called nazis, they don't believe they are.

 

[F0rneus]

You can walk away from both, and you can look to people who are genuinely trying to mend the divide caused by these two groups. I would say a divide caused because both parties realized that you don't ever have to do anything to meaningfully improve the lives of the people who voted for you, just as long as you make people feel like voting for your party is an existential obligation and the only way to avoid catastrophe.

Your values and beliefs are more nuanced than being defined with a direction. I think that should be true of everyone.

I guess that's my only option and it's the best option. Everything is too extreme now. I don't need to feel obligated to vote for my team. You are right.

But one thing I know. Israel needs to exist, was brutally attacked, it's defending it's existence and that is not negociable for me. And there never was a fucking genocide in Gaza. And there still isn't.

 

[kittoo]

US, you gotta ban tiktok. It's brain cancer and propaganda weapon. We got rid of that shit long back and boy am I glad we did so.