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[Jonm1010]

Probably not the argument you want to make in favor of Palestinians!

Gaza wasn't exactly brilliant in electing Hamas, however that doesn't justify the response Israel made which was to institute strong blockades which constitutes an act of war.

I think the viewing of this oscar-nominated documentary should be somewhat mandatory in this discussion: 5 Broken Cameras

Started watching this. Heartbreaking stuff at times. Does a really good job of humanizing this conflict. Also some disgusting acts by the Israelis, not surprising but still, shooting live rounds at the cameraman. There is just no defense for tho stuff. I haven't gotten to the end yet but I'm not expecting a happy ending.

 

[JzeroT1437]

So... does this definition fit Israel?

Blowing up schools and markets full of unarmed civilians to instill fear in the Palestinian people?

Yeah. That's exactly that definition.

 

[M3d10n]

Wait. So why did "the world" "agree" to give the Jewish people a safe haven in disputedly the most sacred religious place in the world, of all places? Thats what really screams conspiracy. We could a gave them Detroit or something. But no Jerusalem. For them to be safe. Lol. Poor planning? Or there's some other other shit going on behind the scenes.

There wasn't an agreement. Britain tossed the problem over the the newborn UN, which made a two-state proposal that was never implemented. When the British mandate expired, the Jewish (those who were already living there and those who emigrated there during/after WWII) simply declared the land as the State of Israel, like people did in the old times. And like in the old times, war ensued because the Arab population that also lived there didn't like it at all.

There was conflict between the Jewish and Arab population in that area long before the creation of Israel. The Jewish population there didn't show up overnight.

The most ironic thing in this whole macabre circus is that Israel is making the Palestine population go through much of the shit they went through. It's like the bullied that become next year's bully. Actually, the aggression chain goes quite long and is full of loops and both Europe and the US are included in it.

 

[Kettch]

So... does this definition fit Israel?

They're destroying civilian infrastructure in order to put pressure on the Palestinians to overthrow Hamas, so violence against civilians for a political goal sounds like it fits pretty well.

 

[zero shift]

Good.

Not surprising coming from Evo Morales, who is Chavez Jr

Chavez wished that he could be Morales.

 

[Kenshin001]

So... does this definition fit Israel?

The thing is that definition also fits Syria where the Syrian government drops barrel bombs on civilian areas.

There was a story just today where Human Rights Watch condemned indiscriminate barrel bomb attacks on rebel held neighbourhoods that alone have killed 2000 people this year. The Syrian Air Force also drops incendiary bombs on schools.

So what does Morales say about Syria?

Bolivian President Evo Morales reiterated his country’s support to Syria under the leadership of President Bashar al-Assad in its war against terrorism and the imperialistic hegemony.

The remark came during a meeting with Syrian ambassador to Venezuela Ghassan
Abbas on the sidelines of the activities of the G77+China summit held
recently in Bolivia with the participation of Syria.

If Morales thinks the actions of Israel are those of a terrorist how can he simultaneously support the Syrian government?

 

[Moving4Motion]

Waiting for other South American countries to follow suit.

Maybe the Southern American nations should concentrate on their own appauling human rights situations before jumping in on the Israel slander?

(Not defending Israel).

 

[opticalmace]

Maybe the Southern American nations should concentrate on their own appauling human rights situations before jumping in on the Israel slander?

(Not defending Israel).

Doesn't really seem like slander to me.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'm glad some people are pointing out how dumb it is to call Israel terrorists or say they are committing genocide. Also good to see many pointing out the fact that Israel is taking so much heat for this when many other countries have done far worse.

The War in Afghanistan resulted in between 18,000 and 20,000 Afghan civilians being killed. Was the USA ever labelled as terrorists or accused of committing genocide? Nope, didn't think so.

 

[Yagharek]

I'm glad some people are pointing out how dumb it is to call Israel terrorists or say they are committing genocide. Also good to see many pointing out the fact that Israel is taking so much heat for this when many other countries have done far worse.

So because others have done bad things, Israel are immune from criticism? What absurd "logic". Israel's actions meet the definition of terrorism, but more importantly, they meet the definition of war crimes.

The War in Afghanistan resulted in between 18,000 and 20,000 Afghan civilians being killed. Was the USA ever labelled as terrorists or accused of committing genocide? Nope, didn't think so.

Yes, the USA and members of the "coalition of the willing" were criticised for it, and criticised for committing war crimes as well.

 

[Bigfoot]

So because others have done bad things, Israel are immune from criticism? What absurd "logic". Israel's actions meet the definition of terrorism, but more importantly, they meet the definition of war crimes.

Yes, the USA and members of the "coalition of the willing" were criticised for it, and criticised for committing war crimes as well.

No, not immune to criticism. Israel is doing some messed up things. Just pointing out that the proportion of criticism here (there are 4 or 5 threads) and elsewhere doesn't come close to what they have done compared to actual recent "genocides". It seems that there is something about Israel that is causing people to care more than usual.

Didn't realize the USA was accused of war crimes.

 

[CesspoolofHatred]

I'm glad some people are pointing out how dumb it is to call Israel terrorists or say they are committing genocide. Also good to see many pointing out the fact that Israel is taking so much heat for this when many other countries have done far worse.

The War in Afghanistan resulted in between 18,000 and 20,000 Afghan civilians being killed. Was the USA ever labelled as terrorists or accused of committing genocide? Nope, didn't think so.

How does the "other countries have done worse!" argument hold any water? We shouldn't stop discussing what's happening in Israel just because worse things are happening in the world. It's not like reporting on and discussing human rights violations is some sort of zero-sum game.

If you think that the War in Afghanistan or any other military action should be scrutinized in a similar manner, make a topic about it! Foster discussion! Don't try to shut down or shame discussion about Israel's current actions, or about the international reaction to it, like how Bolivia is calling Israel a terrorist state!

 

[Lonely1]

Chavez wished that he could be Morales.

But Chavez had oil!

 

[kittoo]

They kind of are considering Israel is occupying it.

Wow!

GAF's anti-Israel slant is something amazing. Sometimes it goes so far in crazy-town territory that one has to wonder about the sanity of it.
I have no bones in the conflict and frankly don't care either way, but GAF (which usually is one of the more unbiased forums) is extremely anti-Israel almost all the time.

And yeah, it is an over-reaction on part of Bolivia. And that definition that was posted, it can apply to almost any country in a war.

 

[Loofy]

Just wondering when was the last time Hamas used these underground tunnels to attack Israels civilian population?

 

[alatif113]

How many times are we going to answer that one guys question from the first page...?

 

[Kenshin001]

So because others have done bad things, Israel are immune from criticism? What absurd "logic". Israel's actions meet the definition of terrorism, but more importantly, they meet the definition of war crimes.

Yes, the USA and members of the "coalition of the willing" were criticised for it, and criticised for committing war crimes as well.

Why doesn't Morales criticize Syria then? The point is not that Morales should not criticize Israel, but he shouldn't be supporting Syria at the same time since in that country the actions of the government are even worse. The civilian death toll in Syria is estimated to be 50-70,000. Even if half of those were attributed to rebels that is still 25-35,000 civilian deaths caused by the Syrian government.

If we define terrorism as:

Noun

S: terrorism, act of terrorism, terrorist act (the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear) - Source: WordNet

Then Evo Morales supports terrorism, since he supports the Syrian government and its allies which killed 1440 civilians over Ramadan.

 

[TheXbox]

Is it terrorism, or is it senseless warmongering? The IDF's recent behavior has been nothing short of barbaric, but terrorism is a sensationalist catchphrase we seem to use to label anything we don't like. Israel is in the same category as the US when it comes to killing civilians. Should the US be considered terrorists?

 

[Muppet of a Man]

The sad part is that the term "terrorist" fits for the lot of them: the state of Israel and Hamas.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Why doesn't Morales criticize Syria then? The point is not that Morales should not criticize Israel, but he shouldn't be supporting Syria at the same time since in that country the actions of the government are even worse. The civilian death toll in Syria is estimated to be 50-70,000.

Broken clocks, etc. etc. Morales is certainly nobody to look up to, but it should stop people from agreeing with the notion that Israel is terrorizing the civilian population of Gaza. Morales being an opportunistic hypocrite, the Syrian army being terrorists to their civilian population and Israel committing terrorist acts are not mutually exclusive ideas in my mind.

 

[Lamel]

Wow!

GAF's anti-Israel slant is something amazing. Sometimes it goes so far in crazy-town territory that one has to wonder about the sanity of it.
I have no bones in the conflict and frankly don't care either way, but GAF (which usually is one of the more unbiased forums) is extremely anti-Israel almost all the time.

And yeah, it is an over-reaction on part of Bolivia. And that definition that was posted, it can apply to almost any country in a war.

What do you even find so offensive about his statement? You know it is in jest right?

Many members of GAF don't criticize Israel for shits and giggles, there are real criticisms against them; don't be surprised that it gets hostile when 1000+ civilians have been killed, including hundreds of children. And there are many on here who support Israel as well, even in the face of these atrocities they are committing. So stop looking for what you want to see.

 

[Verendus]

Wow!

GAF's anti-Israel slant is something amazing. Sometimes it goes so far in crazy-town territory that one has to wonder about the sanity of it.
I have no bones in the conflict and frankly don't care either way, but GAF (which usually is one of the more unbiased forums) is extremely anti-Israel almost all the time.

And yeah, it is an over-reaction on part of Bolivia. And that definition that was posted, it can apply to almost any country in a war.

Sure you don't.

Your post is about as stupid as your assertion regarding GAF being extremely anti-Israel almost all of the time as if it happens without reason. This forum is mostly sensible and has been regarding topics like this a lot of the time. I guess we should have people apologise for their criticism regarding the deaths of over a thousand people.

Why are you so critical GAF? Stop being so anti-Israel.

 

[EightBitNate]

Israel's only goal is to take out Hamas. If you remove that, you can bet they would want nothing to do with Gaza like how they left it in 2005.

Their priorities are misaligned but they're not terrorists. You also can't ignore Israel is not claiming any deliberate civilian attacks. Whenever Hamas bombs a school or kidnap people, they claim they wanted that.

Because Israel wasn't screwing over the Palestinians way before Hamas took power, right?

 

[benjipwns]

The only South American countries opinion I care about is Portugal.

 

[televator]

I'm glad some people are pointing out how dumb it is to call Israel terrorists or say they are committing genocide. Also good to see many pointing out the fact that Israel is taking so much heat for this when many other countries have done far worse.

The War in Afghanistan resulted in between 18,000 and 20,000 Afghan civilians being killed. Was the USA ever labelled as terrorists or accused of committing genocide? Nope, didn't think so.

Uhhh yep. There have been people who flat out say the US's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan are terroristic... There is no general hypocrisy. Even if there was, it wouldn't clear Israel from fitting the definition.

 

[Relique]

Seems like an overreaction.

Does Israel go too far killing innocent people? Definitely. But are they calling for the destruction of countries/nations and intentionally claiming responsibility for each death? Not even close.

Yeah I agree. They are not calling for the destruction of countries or nations... They go ahead and destroy countries and nations. Talk is cheap.

 

[Jonm1010]

Wow!

GAF's anti-Israel slant is something amazing. Sometimes it goes so far in crazy-town territory that one has to wonder about the sanity of it.
I have no bones in the conflict and frankly don't care either way, but GAF (which usually is one of the more unbiased forums) is extremely anti-Israel almost all the time.

And yeah, it is an over-reaction on part of Bolivia. And that definition that was posted, it can apply to almost any country in a war.

Care to substantiate your post? What did he say that is so out of bounds? Are you familiar with how the blockade works and what it does? The method may be different but the result is the same, sanctions and the blockade both achieve similar end goals, they cripple the Palestenian economy and have a devastating effect on the civilian population.

As for your accusation of bias. I think the bigger question you should be asking yourself is where the facts fall. Bias tends to imply irrational prejudice for one side and against another. I think the onus is on you to qualify that accusation.

 

[GYODX]

Isn't that the country that legalized child labor recently?

 

[NullPointer]

How many times are we going to answer that one guys question from the first page...?

Its the fundamental question isn't it?

 

[gutter_trash]

Not surprising coming from Evo Morales, who is Chavez Jr (who himself was no friend of the jewish populations within his own borders)

Good.


Chavez wished that he could be Morales.

Chavez was a clown, a cult of personality.

But Evo Morales is actually a good guy for his people. Bolivia's majority native population have always been ruled by European decent elite. Evo Morales broke that glass ceiling and became their first President.

Evo is okay in my book, and I'm not even a lefty, I'm a centrist

 

[Kenshin001]

Uhhh yep. There have been people who flat out say the US's actions in Iraq and Afghanistan are terroristic... There is no general hypocrisy. Even if there was, it wouldn't clear Israel from fitting the definition.

Why doesn't Morales call Syria a terrorist state instead of supporting them? That seems hugely hypocritical to me.

 

[gutter_trash]

Maybe the Southern American nations should concentrate on their own appauling human rights situations before jumping in on the Israel slander?

(Not defending Israel).

please list one human right violation for each South American country,

you probably lumped all the countries into one same continental bowl of over-generalization.

Remember who parachuted dictators in South America and Central America during the 20th Century in the first place while you eat Chiquita bananas

 

[televator]

Why doesn't Morales call Syria a terrorist state instead of supporting them? That seems hugely hypocritical to me.

One man =/= the general opinion of people criticizing both the US and Israel does it?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

What? Hope it is sarcasm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYqPs0LInls

 

[benjipwns]

What? Hope it is sarcasm.

I've made a huge mistake.

 

[Chichikov]

The only South American countries opinion I care about is Portugal.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I think this is the second time I've had to on advice of the rest of the yehudim, to advise you to keep our planing away from the goyim.

Hurwitz is one of our best.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

The responses from the Israeli defense force are so predictable that you might as well replace them with scripted bots and I wouldn't notice the difference.

When your most consistent tactic in a debate is to deflect from the topic, maybe you're on the wrong side of the debate.

 

[boiled goose]

The people of palestine cant even leave. Gaza is a concentration camp.

Isreal values the lives of their citizens so much more than Palestinians. That is the problem.

 

[Timedog]

The thing is that definition also fits Syria where the Syrian government drops barrel bombs on civilian areas.

There was a story just today where Human Rights Watch condemned indiscriminate barrel bomb attacks on rebel held neighbourhoods that alone have killed 2000 people this year. The Syrian Air Force also drops incendiary bombs on schools.

So what does Morales say about Syria?



If Morales thinks the actions of Israel are those of a terrorist how can he simultaneously support the Syrian government?

That sounds shitty and hypocritical. Has nothing to do with whether or not Israeli government are committing acts of terror though. It doesn't make the statement about Israel any less true.

 

[Rushersauce]

Maybe the Southern American nations should concentrate on their own appauling human rights situations before jumping in on the Israel slander?

(Not defending Israel).

Yes! Because every nation in South America is a fascist/communist regime that violates humans right every day! Hell, I'm just tired of seeing people being tortured here.

Idiot

 

[daninthemix]

Everyone's an armchair expert, despite themselves not living under a hail of rocket fire, and assuredly lacking the imagination to understand what that would be like.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

What the fuck? UAE doesn't even recognize israel as a state and now they're suddenly supporting israel? They send millions to aid palestine, and in that UN vote they voted yes where all of europe abstained while US decided to give a resounding no. Read a bit more than only the source that you cited before you make such an accusation, and if you manage to prove me wrong, i'll gladly apologize and take it back. Otherwise no one in UAE is a fan of israel's actions, neither the citizens nor the rulers. One quick google search would do the trick.

Here are two quick ones: https://7daysindubai.com/sheikh-khalifa-sends-25-million-aid-gaza-strip/

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183147#.U9l7nGOYv8Q

UAE accusation is just a ploy by the Muslim Brotherhood and ISIS vocal hoodlums, the minimum requirement for having relations with Israel is the vocally recognize Israel like Qatar for instance.

 

[Devolution]

Everyone's an armchair expert, despite themselves not living under a hail of rocket fire, and assuredly lacking the imagination to understand what that would be like.

What's that about experts again?

 

[Dryk]

Isreal values the lives of their citizens so much more than Palestinians. That is the problem.

Country X values the lives of its citizens more than Country Y's is always the problem

 

[maharg]

Everyone's an armchair expert, despite themselves not living under a hail of rocket fire, and assuredly lacking the imagination to understand what that would be like.

Yes, let's ask the Palestinians how they feel about living under the constant threat of rocket fire that levels their homes, schools, and kills their children. I'm sure they'll have such stunningly positive things to say about it that us armchair experts will suddenly have nothing to say about it.

This is what you meant, right?

 

[Zen]

Everyone's an armchair expert, despite themselves not living under a hail of rocket fire, and assuredly lacking the imagination to understand what that would be like.

Sorry are we talking about the Israelis or Palestinians here?

 

[Kickz]

So... does this definition fit Israel?

100%

 

[Chichikov]

Everyone's an armchair expert, despite themselves not living under a hail of rocket fire, and assuredly lacking the imagination to understand what that would be like.

When I was young we used to get shelled by rockets from Lebanon (which at least going be casualties were more serious than the current attacks from Gaza), though I don't think it really granted me any sort of special insight about the conflict.
And in any case, these attacks are not exactly stopping the rocket fire (it's also not the pretense that Israel went into that war).

I know I have no chance of persuading you that the risk Hamas pose cannot begin to justify killing over a thousands innocent people, but even if you look at it from a purely Israeli perspective this is retarded. There are more Israeli deaths during protective edge than you had in 15 years of rocket fire from Gaza.

 

[Dragonborn]

As long as the US keeps backing them nothing will happen. It's a good gesture but the whoke world could condemn Israel yet they could continue doing as they please since the US will never put a stop to them