HBO Original | The Last of Us | Part II OT | You Can't Stop This
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Great Auk
Banned
I thought the beard was pretty important to Joel's appearance. If that is not important, then is anything? They could have made him a five foot tall scrawny guy and you'd be ok with it? Because it's just actors acting? He can ACT like he's big and tough. That's good enough I guess lol
I don't hate watch anything, sir. I just find it amusing that they found the one actor who can't grow a beard if his life depended on it to play a guy that's been shown with a fully grown beard in the entirety of the games.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
There are a lot of flashbacks but also the next season is likely going to be shown much from Abby's perspective, including her flashbacks with her dad.
There are three primary flashbacks iirc (and a 4th that I don't think will be added) for Ellie. I think this season will have one of them and they'll save the other 2 for next season.
Ellie finding out Joel lied, Joel taking Ellie to the museum, and Joel and Ellie talking on the porch (which I think still happened, but Ellie lied about it. The 4th flashback is largely filled with gameplay.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Why do you think Joel's beard is central to his character? Is his beard brought up at any point during either game?
He was nominated for an Emmy for his portrayal as Joel. He knocked it out of the park.
I'm sure if you thought about tv and movies you love, you'd realize that you don't actually care but you've picked this opportunity to be obstinant about it.
Did you like Braveheart? Do you think Mel Gibson is from Scotland?
Again, I'll say that people are super weird when it comes to this IP.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Ratings went up from the previous episode. From data that has been released. Episode 12 is episode 3:
The Last of Us 12: Episode 12 (HBO, 9:02 PM-9:58 PM, 56 min.) • 0.768 million viewers
The Last of Us Episode 11 (HBO, 9:01 PM-9:57 PM, 56 min.) • 0.643 million viewers
Sunday Ratings: CBS and TNT Split Victory on Easter Night
What follows are the Live + Same Day rating results for the night's network telecasts on Sunday, April 20, 2025: — Total Viewers (in millions): CBS: 5.546, ABC: 4.411, TNT: 3.637, NBC: 2.030, Fox News: 1.338,programminginsider.com
The show would have been much bigger on Netflix or even Amazon.
Great Auk
Banned
It's just that we spent a few years with a character looking a certain way and now they just go ahead and change that completely arbitrarily.
Let me ask you a question, how much could they alter Joel's appearance from his game depiction before you'd be like wtf is going on here?
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VulcanRaven
Member
Those might be just TV rating. Not streaming.
I think Joel could be properly played by a horse. Mr. Ed surely has some descendants running around who would be happy to give their take on the role.
After all, it's all fiction and acting, right?
"Ellliieee!!!"
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I'm curious how they're going to handle Tommy.
Assuming he does end up going to Seattle. Will he still kill Manny? It was a cool moment in the game. Tommy at his most badass, as a predator hunting them down. I wonder if the show will try to make that moment a surprise and not show or tell us Tommy left to go to Seattle to try to make that moment more surprising. I don't know. If he doesn't leave by the end of episode 4 I'm just going to assume that's the plan.
Assuming he does end up going to Seattle. Will he still kill Manny? It was a cool moment in the game. Tommy at his most badass, as a predator hunting them down. I wonder if the show will try to make that moment a surprise and not show or tell us Tommy left to go to Seattle to try to make that moment more surprising. I don't know. If he doesn't leave by the end of episode 4 I'm just going to assume that's the plan.
Great Auk
Banned
Lol
On a more serious note, I think that poster would be ok with a bald Joel? Or maybe one that likes to wear makeup? Or completely covered in tattoos? Why not? It's just actong and these characteristsics are not essential to the character, right?
viveks86
Member
Right. But I think they will shuffle it a bit so Ellie gets some screen time throughout next season. Would be too jarring to wait another 2 years to see what happens next and then find out that most of the season is a flashback of the so-called antagonist. Ellie will have screen time only if Santa Barbara is featured. If they are splitting that off into a 4th season, then it's definitely going to be a challenge to find the right balance between the 2 perspectives. Curious to see how they pull it off.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
I don't think there are any physical traits that I think needed to be present here. Don't think that was important at all. What was important was you had a parent who lost a child that they were unable to protect and got a second shot that they didn't necessarily want or plan on.
They could have gender swapped the character and I wouldn't have cared at all.
I could come up with several women who I think could have pulled off a "joel" character. It really doesn't matter. The characteristics that define Joel have nothing to do with him having a beard.
Could you do that with Kratos? Not so much.
Was Pedro Pascal on my short list for Joel? No, he wasn't. I thought he was great in Narcos and in Game of Thrones, but I soured on him a little bit after Wonder Woman 1984, but I think he killed it as Joel and most people think that.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I know, I'm just saying that Max's subscriber base holds the show back a bit. It's not built like Game of Thrones, so it's not going to have the same run, but the show probably would have been bigger on Amazon or Netflix.
They will just shift the "critical aspect" of Joel around to whatever you are NOT cmplaining about. Does Joel need to be a man? An adult even? Tall? Able to walk?
Certainly there have been actors with disabilities/differences that aren't reflected in their character but with todays talent pool there is really no excuse for not getting EXACTLY the on screen visual look you want. Anyone who says "well, the actor looks totally wrong but their audition was SOOOOOO terrific we just had to cast them" is mostly lying.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
You told on yourself here...
Does Joel need to be a man? I think it helps, but no I don't think it was a requirement.
Does Joel need to be an adult? Yeah, one of his defining characteristics is his parental relationship with Sarah and Ellie.
Tall? Define tall. Is Tom Cruise tall? Has that stopped him from acting in action roles? Hell he was cast as Jack Reacher...
Able to walk? Yeah, I think given that Ellie and Joel literally walk cross country that Joel would need to walk.
Could Joel be bald? Yeah, I don't think Joel is well defined by his hair. If they did a movie instead of a tv show, would people cry if Jason Statham had been cat as Joel? I can tell you, I wouldn't have been a fan, simply because Statham can't really do an American accent, but if you decided to do a Last of Us set in the UK instead? Would that drastically change the story?
Could Joel have tattoos? Maybe, but I think it'd be a stretch. I think it would clash somewhat with the wholesome parental relationship with Sarah.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
One of my major complaints was the merging of Manny and Jordan. I think we're going to be robbed of at least one of those great scenes. I think Tommy goes to Seattle for Ellie here rather than just vengeance, but come face to face with it, I think he'll still choose vengeance. I think the discussion with Gail reflects that it's Tommy who is afraid of walking Joel's path and afraid that he'll do something stupid... Tommy is very much a spectre for most of the game.
You could have Joel be a teen and just sub the parental relationship for a sibling one. Literally NOTHING of the relationship needs to change.
Hell, Joel could be a 10 yo an Ellie is 30 and its a meternal relationship. NOTHING needs to change.
And was shit on for it.....
You never actually need to see Joel walk. He could just always be sitting down for every scene. Or he uses a wheelchair. You aren't saying that the wheelchair bound are crippled and can't help people, are you?
See how that works? You can ALWAYS bend the source material to accommodate whatever looney idea you have. And if the performance is good enough, folks tend to come 'round. But if there are cracks in the production, even if it isn't directly with that screwball casting choice, the blame often gets heaped up there because if the casting was so divergent, then of course the rest was sloppy as well.
viveks86
Member
People with tattoos can't have wholesome parental relationships?! Tsk tsk...
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Not saying they can't, but it still needs to play well on the screen.
Great Auk
Banned
In essence season 2 is just a revenge story. We don't even need the fungus, it could have been a nuclear war, or nothing at all!
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Going to ignore this because it'll just end up with me calling you names.
So much that they made a sequel...
See above.
I wouldn't have hesitated to cast Kate Winslet as "Joel" after her performance in Mare of Easttown. I could name 20 actresses who could do a compelling performance. It would require rewrites elsewhere that might not be worth doing. I do think a father-daughter relationship is a unique relationship that you wouldn't want to change either. It's compelling.
But no, most of the surface level characteristics that you're harping over are not important to the actual character of Joel or the story in the last of us.
Certainly not his beard.
Do you know what inspired The Last of Us?
Actual father and son not an adopted daughter
Note: Viggo was on my shortlist to play Joel, but obviously that's a bit on the nose.
Wait, where's his beard? I guess he has a bit of a shadow... and wait, that's not his daughter at all...
All The Last of Us is, is Children of Men + The Road + 28 Days Later
Mibu no ookami
Banned
The Last of Us was never really about the fungus... even in season 1. No fungus in The Road or Children of Men...
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I think if they keep one of them it would be the way Manny died. The way Jordan died was a little more video game-y. I swear though, Tommy better head out to Seattle. I still have concerns he won't so they can keep him in Jackson to give them a reason to keep checking back in. Because Jackson without Tommy and Jesse really has no reason to go back there.
Great Auk
Banned
I am sorry to inform you but the show is called The last of Us and it's based off a game that's called The Last of Us.
You're being kind of silly now if you think the fungus isn't even essential.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Mibu no ookami
Banned
LOL, all that tells me is that you didn't watch any of those movies.
Neil copied the three of them and turned them into the last of us and the fungus is just a means to an ends. The purpose is to explore the human condition as a result of apocalypse. It's right there in the title, "The Last of Us." What do we become when we're the only ones left?
The infected are mostly a gameplay mechanic not much different from the fantasy elements in the Uncharted games and also why they're not so prevalent in the TV show...
Great Auk
Banned
I've seen Children of Men and 28 Day Later.
I am not sure why they would try to kill Ellie if they weren't looking for a cure then, they would just substitute that part of the story too?
I think you're the type of person who thinks the Ship of Theseus is the same ship even if every part was replaced multiple times.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Who is trying to kill Ellie?
No where did I say that the last of us is the things it was inspired by, but the characteristics are completely created from them and they're clearly varied from each other.
Focusing on a beard is laughable and tells everyone you didn't get the game so you won't get the show.
Focusing on Joel being a father and ellie a surrogate daughter as the ONLY expression of that type of relationship is also laughable. Hell, even the 'sources/inspiration' you cite aren't all father/adopted daughter. Joel could be a dog seeking to replace its master and willing to do ANYTHING to protect her......EXACT SAME emotional narrative beats and in fact that story has been done as well.
Face it, either you want a screen accurate Joel or you have to accept that a beachball following a cactus, so long as there is a protective connection between the two, is ok in your book.
They could have made him a black woman for all I care or the story needs. You must be new to tv series/movie adaptations. Lots of literary work is made for the screen were lots of key things are changed and here you are complaining about a beard Gimme a break.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
When you think about it, Joel is a very similar character in some ways to The Boss from MGS3. Both Joel and her knew that their actions would cause people they care about to hate them. But they did it anyway because they were ok with burdening it to do the right thing. In the case of Joel, he knew Ellie would come to be furious with him for what he did. But he was willing to burden that to save her. Ellie is more the main character of the story, but Joel is still the hero of it IMO. Even though he did bad things.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
If these people were at all honest, they'd realize half the stuff they enjoy on tv or in movies are adaptations many of which if not most have made drastic changes to the source material.
The Departed is a great movie. It was a remake of Infernal Affairs, a hong kong film. Instead of being set in HK, it's set in Boston with the Irish mob instead of Triad. Like, part of me assumes that these are 16-20 year olds who have never really watched much cinema or even tv, or maybe they're just oblivious to the changes.
Even the Godfather makes significant changes from book to movie...
See, changing the setting to better represent the casting is fine. In fact, it's GREAT. Story and setting are connected but don't have to be in lock-step. Now if The Departed was still set in Hong Kong or wherever just with all white actors....problem. The setting no longer jives with the casting to create a coherent experience. Unless it's the best you can do because it's the 1950's and you have $3.50 for budget and can't travel more than 2 miles from Hollywood. Somewhat passable back then, but utterly inexcusable in the age of $200 mill/season TV show sand films.
Same with Shakespeare. Take all the story you want, but if you ain't gonna cast it in authentic feeling Renaissance Italy or ancient Rome, DON'T SET IT THERE.
Visual media adaptations have an obligation to respect the visual media sources they use, altering cosmetic details needs to be a deliberate choice that ENHANCES the story, not chasing social media trends or capitalizing on actor hotness (though I realize actor hotness is often a key ingredient in getting a project launched in the first place).
MSduderino
Member
Pedro pascal was miscast as Joel but it had nothing to do with his facial hair. Y'all need to stop bringing up actors' looks with this show. His characterization is too soft and he's too likable and not controversial at all.
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
I mean, the long and short of the casting isn't a valiant "their soul was right for the part, looks be damned!" It's more a who's-who circle jerk of in folks high off their own supply in perpetuity, a walled off echo chamber of high class artists, doing real recognize real poorly.
Think I'm being an asshole? I am. But also, consider:
HBO - big cash cow is Game of Thrones. That's the "vibe check," for an HBO show. That's the quality (for better and worse) and tone that's become synonymous with the brand. Well, what made GoT great? It was the terrific performances [sic] for one! Who was in that one?
Pedro Pascal, Bella Ramsey? Insanely divine coincidence that out of the seven billion people on the planet, these two specifically became the leads? I'm sure in Pedro's case the casting had nothing to do with his easily forecasted rising star with GoT, Narcos, The Mandalorian, every movie released after 2020, etc.
Still think I'm being a loose douche? Well, KEGAL UP, KELLY.
Gabi Tittiesisreal or whatever her name is, bald scene chick # 43, the lead in Naughty Dog's upcoming title, The Heretic Prophet. Coincidentally cast as Nora, like...vague washing her strong black woman vibe from the source material. Speaking of Naughty Dog, let's examine some of the magic under the hood.
The music in The Last of Us, both parts one and two, was written and performed, to basically bipartisan acclaim, no less, by one Gustavo Santallaola (or whatever, again, fuck repeating consonants) Now, dear reader, please don't suppose that I'm about to bitch about the man's cameo in the game (and by larger extension the show) Of course not. That's a silly cameo.
What's interesting, is that Gustavo worked with Mogwai and, relevant to this point, Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross on the score of the scaredaganda Disney+ featured doc, Before the Flood. Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross also did the score the libtard HBO Watchmen series. Nine Inch Nails (Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross using Ultra Instinct) are currently working with Disney on the new Tron film.
You'll notice Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross now scoring Intergalactic. It's not an indictment or decoration for anyone involved. It's how networking works. But don't believe for a second these people authentically thought each individual piece in their incestuous chess game were the "best for the role,"
Neil knew Hailey and Gustavo.
Hailey knew Craig.
Gustavo knew Reznor.
All under the HBO umbrella, which brings in the actors usually associated.
Kind of seems like dumb people thinking they're being smart if the idea is for the world to accept these are the GOAT. Especially since TLOU has "going to be remade three times over the next twenty years by different actors and directors and writers," written all over it as as a visual media property.
Think I'm being an asshole? I am. But also, consider:
HBO - big cash cow is Game of Thrones. That's the "vibe check," for an HBO show. That's the quality (for better and worse) and tone that's become synonymous with the brand. Well, what made GoT great? It was the terrific performances [sic] for one! Who was in that one?
Pedro Pascal, Bella Ramsey? Insanely divine coincidence that out of the seven billion people on the planet, these two specifically became the leads? I'm sure in Pedro's case the casting had nothing to do with his easily forecasted rising star with GoT, Narcos, The Mandalorian, every movie released after 2020, etc.
Still think I'm being a loose douche? Well, KEGAL UP, KELLY.
Gabi Tittiesisreal or whatever her name is, bald scene chick # 43, the lead in Naughty Dog's upcoming title, The Heretic Prophet. Coincidentally cast as Nora, like...vague washing her strong black woman vibe from the source material. Speaking of Naughty Dog, let's examine some of the magic under the hood.
The music in The Last of Us, both parts one and two, was written and performed, to basically bipartisan acclaim, no less, by one Gustavo Santallaola (or whatever, again, fuck repeating consonants) Now, dear reader, please don't suppose that I'm about to bitch about the man's cameo in the game (and by larger extension the show) Of course not. That's a silly cameo.
What's interesting, is that Gustavo worked with Mogwai and, relevant to this point, Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross on the score of the scaredaganda Disney+ featured doc, Before the Flood. Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross also did the score the libtard HBO Watchmen series. Nine Inch Nails (Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross using Ultra Instinct) are currently working with Disney on the new Tron film.
You'll notice Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross now scoring Intergalactic. It's not an indictment or decoration for anyone involved. It's how networking works. But don't believe for a second these people authentically thought each individual piece in their incestuous chess game were the "best for the role,"
Neil knew Hailey and Gustavo.
Hailey knew Craig.
Gustavo knew Reznor.
All under the HBO umbrella, which brings in the actors usually associated.
Kind of seems like dumb people thinking they're being smart if the idea is for the world to accept these are the GOAT. Especially since TLOU has "going to be remade three times over the next twenty years by different actors and directors and writers," written all over it as as a visual media property.
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FrankWza
Member
The parts they took out were necessary. A
giant vagina
Giallo Corsa
Member
Can you hear it ? It's the sound of the marching defenders, get ready !
Also :
VulcanRaven
Member
I fail to see anything wrong with this. Of course Pedro Pascal was cast because he an popular actor and it turned out to be a perfect choice. Craig Mazin has told many times how Bella was cast. He saw her audition tape and was impressed by it. He said that he did recognize her from Game of Thrones when watching the tape.
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MSduderino
Member
Is this a joke? He's horribly miscast.
VulcanRaven
Member
I see people mostly praising his performance.
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
Yeah, I'm just forwarding the information to people who aren't immensely steeped in the backstage intricacies and who aren't Ph.D's in NIN Lore or whatever. I, myself said in my post it's neither praise or shit talking, it just is.
As for my personal opinions? I haven't watched any entire episode of season 2, so I'm going by the 15-45 second clips every associated account on X spams 20 seconds after the newest episode ends. I've watched the entirety of season one and played through both games including Left Behind. Didn't touch the comics or stage dramas or Factions. But going in with THAT frame of reference- I think Bella is boring and has sort of a flat affect that really makes her sound like she's on downers during any scene that is lacking in physical acting (facial expressions, shouting, screaming) My impression is that it's an unfortunate side effect of being British, and only being really good at emulating one "type," or "dialect," of English - that is, the Juno obsessed, Converse scene teen. You can't make that your baseline. It's like the Green power ranger without the foam shield.
I think they placed bad bets on how much Ramsey's look (and probably skill) would improve between the two seasons. She's fine. But that's the main issue. She's just there. Very present. Most totally a character that's written. But the writing, directing, or acting needs to step up to better it's fellow weaker pillars. Doesn't have to be 3 for 3, but I'd assume 2/3 is doable for people who are rich because of the caliber of stories they bring to life. Allegedly.
Yeah, I watched Infernal Affairs first. I like it a lot better. And the beloved GoT (Which I don't think much of) is a complete fabrication for TV after the books ran out, and even what's there from the novels was substantially changed.
MSduderino
Member
People like Pedro Pascal and he has many great performances, but I don't think anyone thinks of him as a perfect fit for Joel. I think most of those "praising him" are trying to dunk on Bella Ramsey's performance as a contrast.
They don't have an "obligation" to respect anything, that's why they're adaptations.
viveks86
Member
Wow. People who knew each other and/or admire their output chose to work together? I'm shocked!
What you are saying applies to most projects from shoestring budget indies to megaprojects. It's not even industry specific. Working with acquaintances, associates, friends i.e. people in your "network" is literally how most, if not all, business is done. It's how humans operate. But beyond that, you really aren't saying as much as your word count suggests. Yes, "perfect person for the job" is hyperbole and often obfuscates the real reason, as long as you agree that it is almost always the case.
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TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
Holy shit, at least read the post before you sperg at me.
MSduderino
Member
What is so important about his beard?