They can. It's been done to death. I know what you're saying. A beard. Very profound thing to nitpick. I'm slightly annoyed Abby isn't muscular, but hey, the game is still there untouched.
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HBO Original | The Last of Us | Part II OT | You Can't Stop This
- Thread starter Represent.
- Start date
Great Auk
Banned
To me its more of an indication that they already had someone in mind before they even bothered to do a casting call. That's cronyism.
I know it sounds petty, but I see it as a symptom of a larger problem with management.
I don't think the show is bad btw, I know a bunch of people probably assumed that about me.
Yes Bella is a terrible casting choice and Pedro can't grow a beard to save his life but overall the show is ok. 6 or maybe even 6.5 out of 10.
MSduderino
Member
March Climber
Gold Member
This entire show suffers from miscasting issues, but I will give credit that Pedro Pascal, Gabriel Luna, and Isabela Merced are doing their jobs really, really well…which makes it difficult to watch Bella's acting.
The three above are movie actors/stars, and in this instance of this episode and the last you can see the clear difference in acting level between Isabela and Bella. Isabela is oozing charisma, and Bella is having to box far above her weight class acting next to her.
I'm getting worried that she will never convince me that she can come close to the complexity of older Ellie, as she is simply still acting like young ellie with an asterisk.
viveks86
Member
Of course I did. All I did was summarize what you said and conclude you aren't saying much more than "business as usual". It doesn't take anything away from the auditions and casting decisions, which still hold way more merit than you seem to be crediting them for.
Also, sperg? Thanks for that. Learnt a new word!
Bloody Crow of Cainhurst
Member
Why are you such a condescending asshole? The whole point of the revenge arc in the game is that Ellie spends no time processing her grief, she uses revenge to cope with her feelings and leaves immediately after the funeral. HBO Ellie has had 3 months of therapy and still feels raw enough to go and brutally murder hundreds of people? I didn't read the rest of your comment because I don't care, so don't bother replying
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Wait so you believe that Abby can feel raw enough about killing Joel 5 years later in the game, but you don't think Ellie can feel raw about Joel after 3 months?
How long would you get over someone brutally murdering your parent?
You're an unserious person.
viveks86
Member
Having experienced therapy second hand, I can assure you 3 months ain't enough. It can take years. And therapy would work only if the patient wants it. Even then, it's a challenge and some people end up worse than when they began. And for grief this deep for a person who is already struggling with survivor's guilt, PTSD and existential crisis, it's pretty hard to fathom.
Bloody Crow of Cainhurst
Member
Even leaving aside the effectiveness of therapy, there's such a thing as plot momentum. The game put you directly into the revenge storyline while emotions were running red hot. I still feel like the pause was unnecessary, but others are welcome to disagree
Roni
Member
They have A LOT of ground to cover if they want to end this season at the theater. Episode 4 is the middle of the season and they just got to Seattle. Unless they're gonna start time jumping and showing stuff from either Abby or Ellie's perspective and save the counter perspective for season 3 I don't see how they get there without cutting a bunch of stuff.
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You're right. But that hasn't been the case with TLOU series. And again, it's been done to death (changing the source material) with varying degrees of success. For one, there's a large audience that don't even know the original works.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Most of the gameplay gets cut, so it's not nearly as long as you think. I think Abby's perspective will be largely shown next season.
There are 10 chapters left in the game.
I wouldn't be surprised if Seasons 3 and 4 were only like 5 or 6 episodes each, maybe even less for season 4.
Roni
Member
I expect most of the gameplay to be cut, sure. And there is the fact the Seattle crew is much smaller too. But still... Working backwards from the Theather climax: Ellie needs to get to the Aquarium. For that, she needs to find out where Abby is; I expect Abby will be AWOL (like in the game) so just interrogating any WLF soldier won't cut it. She'll need to get to one of Abby's friends and interrogate them. For that, perhaps interrogating one of the WLF will work, but then you need to actually reach the friend. It's a lot of beats, they'll have to be pretty succint on some of them.
Besides all of that, I expect to see some more of Abby's perspective this season. The game's structure is great and works when you experience it all as a single piece of content. I think it would be pretty bold to just not show anymore from Abby's perspective this season, keep everyone waiting a year and then outright change the series' protagonist for season 3; only to switch it back at the end of season 3. Or have dual protagonists in season 4 - if Santa Barbara's stuff is indeed expanded upon in a new season.
If it were up to me, I'd make Episode 4 longer and dedicate it to Abby: pull the WLF vs. Seraphite stuff from the 3 day story and into the three months since Joel's death. That means the WLF is marching towards the island in the last shot of Episode 3. Then Episode 5 is Ellie's day 1, 6 is Ellie's day 2 and 7 is Ellie's day 3. Then season 3 could be indeed shorter, with some Abby backstory for padding as well as some Ellie flashbacks and Abby's 3 days.
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viveks86
Member
What did the game do as soon as emotions were running red hot and we reach Seattle? It hits the brakes HARD. I spent a good hour or two roaming downtown, small talking and flirting with Dina, reading notes and killing infected bank robbers. There is a significant pause in momentum there as well. I think a pause is needed after such an insane and tragic event, to prevent fatigue. And they used that in the show to depict an alternate version where a rushed cross country trek with no deliberation may have seemed too video game-y (or like a pre 2000s action movie). It works in the game as you feel the pause while playing it, instead of watching a 30 minute cutscene of people talking back and forth.Even leaving aside the effectiveness of therapy, there's such a thing as plot momentum. The game put you directly into the revenge storyline while emotions were running red hot. I still feel like the pause was unnecessary, but others are welcome to disagree
But yeah, plot momentum and its perception can be subjective. Both the game and the show's pacing can and have been criticized for that. My goal is not to judge or change your mind. Just to share how I see it and learn a thing or two from an opposing point of view.
Aaron Olive
Member
Just realized who she looks like
Kaitlyn Dever should've been Ellie.
Kaitlyn Dever should've been Ellie.
VulcanRaven
Member
She is 28.
Aaron Olive
Member
So… they could've made it work.
VulcanRaven
Member
I saw this ratings comparsion on Reddit:
Seems to be very steady. It seems that episode 2 of this season was released at bad time. Easter weekend and Wrestlemania at the same time. Episode 5 of season 1 had probaly the worst timing.
Seems to be very steady. It seems that episode 2 of this season was released at bad time. Easter weekend and Wrestlemania at the same time. Episode 5 of season 1 had probaly the worst timing.
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Great Auk
Banned
I saw this ratings comparsion on Reddit:
Seems to be very steady. It seems that episode 2 of this season was released at bad time. Easter weekend and Wrestlemania at the same time. Episode 5 of season 1 had probaly the worst timing.
What's up with the 20 different directors? is that common practice?
For TV, yes. The director of a TV show is often more of an organizer for the production of that specific episode. THey are usually much more tightly controlled by the script and the DP/cinematographer in what they can do so each episode feels cohesive within the series. The showrunner is acting a lot more like a movie director in making all the big choices and stuff. Since TV filming overlaps with pre- and post- for each episode it is hard for a single director to do every episode unless it is all filmed at once like a long movie (Peter Berg did this with American Primeval, I believe) wereas most TV are more like sequential mini movies, or the production is so scattered around that no one human could be in all places anyway.
plip.plop
Member
This one is more accurate.Just realized who she looks like
Kaitlyn Dever should've been Ellie.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I saw this ratings comparsion on Reddit:
Seems to be very steady. It seems that episode 2 of this season was released at bad time. Easter weekend and Wrestlemania at the same time. Episode 5 of season 1 had probaly the worst timing.
Yeah it seems they avoided football season but have run into a lot of headwinds with things like Easter, Wrestlemania, and the NBA playoffs.
I wonder how the ratings would have played out in say July/August.
But also tv ratings are really only a piece of the puzzle now with streaming. You're really looking at total viewership across the whole season, but I do think they're going to struggle with the large narrative shift in Part 2 and the segmented nature of the seasons not having as big of a climax.
Great Auk
Banned
They could have made this a mini series. It doesn't need three seasons.
But they wanted to milk it.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
One way of looking at it. Expensive show. You have to get your ROI.
viveks86
Member
I wish they'd made a bigger bet and actually made 2 or even 3 seasons out of part 1. No way that could have happened, but I wish that would have been the case.
Ended up binge-ing all 3 episodes of season 2 yesterday even though I had planned to only watch all of them after all 7 were out. I really like how season 2 is letting the characters and storyline breathe. In comparison, season 1 felt like a procedural where every episode explored a self contained story. Introduce new character, make you like them, explain their role and motivation, kill them off. Thank you, next!
I still enjoyed season 1, but the difference in pacing is... stark!
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
CartesianMan
Member
Episode 3 could've been an email—nothing happens.
The journey to Seattle is so safe, my strolls around the neighborhood are more dangerous—and I live near a bakery and a retired cat.
The journey to Seattle is so safe, my strolls around the neighborhood are more dangerous—and I live near a bakery and a retired cat.
BertleTheTurtle
Member
I see people talking about seasons 3 or 4 and get confused, it seems like it should end after season 2 to me.
I watched episodes 1 & 2 of season 2 tonight and have no urge to watch episode 3. If I want to watch a baked potato I'll put one in my microwave.
I watched episodes 1 & 2 of season 2 tonight and have no urge to watch episode 3. If I want to watch a baked potato I'll put one in my microwave.
March Climber
Gold Member
I just realized something, if they're going to mostly follow the structure of the game, that means that they will have to address the flashbacks as well.
It is going to be awkward seeing Bella Ramsey go from this:
To this:
as she frolicks around as a child in the museum, then it cuts back to the present day "5 years later" the very next scene.
It is going to be awkward seeing Bella Ramsey go from this:
To this:
as she frolicks around as a child in the museum, then it cuts back to the present day "5 years later" the very next scene.
Generic
Member
18 likes, all right.This came across my feed lol. Not just gamers didn't like it.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
yep-
First off, she didn't play the game, she watched someone play the game. She's a tourist.
Second, Abby was never cruel? LOL... she literally beat Joel to death with a golf club...
It's hilarious how revisionist and gatekeeping people can try to be without having any real sense of the material. Same with the idea that nothing happened in the episode. If by that you mean there were no "action" sequences... sure I guess (although one happens off screen in a far more effective way). Tons happen in the episode; Ellie and Tommy grieve over Joel, Dina tells Ellie and Tommy what she knows, the town votes Ellie down, Dina and Ellie make their way to Seattle, and they also discover the seraphites, and we also "learn" the true military strength of the WLF and that this isn't going to be as simple a mission as Ellie and Dina think it will be.
Like even as someone who played the game, I can't come to terms with saying "nothing happened" in this episode.
If that's the case let's just say nothing has ever happened in the show or any shows ever or life for that matter. We live and we die and we're forgotten. What was the point?
Generic
Member
I'm curious to see the episode directed by Neil.I saw this ratings comparsion on Reddit:
Seems to be very steady. It seems that episode 2 of this season was released at bad time. Easter weekend and Wrestlemania at the same time. Episode 5 of season 1 had probaly the worst timing.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
... are you dumb?
"No just gamers didn't like it"
that person is not a gamer (and she is not claiming to be one either). she is a TV/Movie critic. and an ally, one of the most prominent in that sphere. (so no conspiracy theories can apply to her)
chill.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Game 7 Rockets vs Warriors... Two largest states in the country are probably going to be tuned in to that... HBO didn't think through the timing of the season in my mind, but the timing of this was always going to be difficult.
Easter for the big episode and Memorial Day weekend for the finale plus the NBA playoffs? That's rough. I wonder if they couldn't have gotten the show out in that period right after the super bowl...
I get it if the show just wasn't ready (but that can't be the case since they gave critics all the episodes before the show aired).
Mibu no ookami
Banned
???
Re-read what I said before acting like a clown.
Yes, I know she isn't a gamer, that's why I said she's a tourist and one that doesn't know what she is talking about.
Again, how can you claim Abby was never cruel when she literally beat Joel with a golf club... is that kind and merciful? What the fuck are you talking about? An ally? LOL, okay, not sure what the fuck that is supposed to mean in this context. She can be whatever she wants, it doesn't make the statement "Abby was never cruel" accurate.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
LOL, she thinks the Abby is enjoying it in the show... she's literally crying while she does it...
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
The word "tourist" is used to describe people who claim to be fans or act entitled about a medium or a piece of media without actually caring for it, but who use this entitlement to push a narrative, ideology, or agenda (at the expense of the medium or specific work)
she is not doing that. and im not defending her btw.
she is woke as fuck.
you are crashing out about her opinion.
but as always, you are missing the point.
Who gives a fuck about the morality of the characters if the show and the game are both executed in such a pathetically bad, lackluster, flawed, and pretentious way... that's the point
the game and the show are divisive not because of its themes/story/character-casting/ Woke/anti-woke etcetera but because of its poor execution.
the opposite example of this is The Red Wedding from Game of thrones.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I described her as a tourist because she is saying this is a bad adaptation because game Abby isn't cruel. That's factually and objectively not true. She could have shot joel in the head and killed him and got her revenge instantly. She literally says, you don't get to rush this as she beats him to death with a golf club... she is cruel... period...
Why do I care? How is that relevant to the statements I made in counterpoint to the statements she made?
Notice how you haven't said how it is poorly executed. I could say the red wedding is poorly executed and not back that up with any reasoning... what does that add to the conversation though?
I think people need to learn the difference between opinions and analysis. Everyone can have an opinion: I didn't enjoy this but that's not an analysis.
What's even more important is the difference between opinion and objective observation.
I can't say in my opinion today is Wednesday. That's not an opinion.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Last 15 minutes or so were really botched and poorly executed. Felt like they rushed it and shot it in one take. Also missed a great opportunity to deliver the "You go, I go" line.
Can't believe how bad that was.
Rest of the episode was really well done, so it's kind of baffling.
Can't believe how bad that was.
Rest of the episode was really well done, so it's kind of baffling.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I thought it was a decent episode. Not the best, not the worst. I don't remember the pregnancy reveal from the game, so I can't compare it to tonight. That's one of the things I forgot from the game. The action sequences were tense. I'm surprised we still have not seen a single flashback. If there ever was a time to have Joel's guitar lesson flashback, it was this episode. If not tonight, when? They were in a music store, HELLO.
Also still no scene of Tommy leaving for Seattle. So I'm interested to see if they show that or if he's just gonna show up like "Surprise!"
Also still no scene of Tommy leaving for Seattle. So I'm interested to see if they show that or if he's just gonna show up like "Surprise!"
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
In the game Ellie's mask gets broken and Dina attempts to take her mask off so that they can share the mask, but Ellie stops her. I knew they were going to change it because they obviously haven't introduced spores yet. So it was obviously going to play out like that. Ellie had already told Dina that she was immune, but now it was obvious because she wasn't coughing from the spores. Ellie is a little scared, but that's when Dina tells her that she's pregnant and Ellie gets pretty mad because she's become a burden. This is when Ellie leaves her behind at the theater to go hunt Dina.
I wouldn't worry too much about Tommy
I think they were able to overcome the spores problem and create a really tense scene between Ellie and Dina, but the execution of Dina telling Ellie she was pregnant and immediately hooking up afterwards and then Dina exposition dumping that she is bi just seemed really forced, rushed, and out of place. Dina saying that she knew Ellie was into her the whole time just made Dina seem like an asshole. And they didn't even throw in a line with her saying that she broke up with Jesse again... it's as if they were like, we know we're going to get a lot of hate for this episode so we might as well just rush it and get it over with.
The first 3/4ths were really well done. I'd probably give it a B+ as an adaptation, but the last quarter was an absolute F. And I don't think it's going to play well with anyone. I'm surprised that Craig and Neil let this run and I've basically lost faith in them to maintain high quality throughout the season.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Mazin wrote all the episodes so far, but Druckmann(and Halley Gross) write the last two episodes and Druckmann directs episode 6, which I believe will be the museum flashback. No one knows the source material like Neil, so I could see the final two episodes being quite good.
But yeah, I thought the pregnancy reveal was a little cheesy. I guess I don't care nearly as much about some of the other stuff, because I was not a huge fan of TLOU2 the game, and when they arrived at the theater was about the point where I started not digging it, so most of the stuff I forget was the middle portion of the game. I remember almost all of the beginning and end portions. But it was weird for her to go I'm pregnant and just lunge herself at Ellie. But I never cared much about that scene in the game to begin with so I guess I just don't care about it in the show either. I don't think spores are even going to be a thing in the show, but we'll see. I think it's too hard to write around.
Hopefully next episode they give us an update on Tommy. And I wonder if/when we're going to start seeing Abby flashbacks before season 3. Will they even show Lev this season I wonder. Reviews have said Abby is barely in the season, so I have a hunch if we see her again it may only be in one more episode. Probably the finale.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
Neil didn't write, but I'm sure he consulted on each episode. For the amount of effort he puts into getting scenes right in the game, it's surprising he'd let that go, but maybe he's just come to terms with this not being his baby and that it is Craig's. I get why Neil is saying there might not be a 3rd game now and I definitely don't think they can push this to 4 seasons. I expect ratings are going to tumble after this episode.
I definitely think spores will still be a thing, but I won't go into much on that.
They skipped the scene with the Jordan character completely, so Manny and Jordan have kind of parted ways it seems. Jesse should be in the next episode, but Tommy doesn't really play as much a part of the events. Ellie doesn't run into him until Day 3. Could be different in the show, but we'll see. I didn't think we'd get much more than Day 2 this season, but the pacing is kind of all over the place.