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[IntentionalPun]

I just find this all really boring, not seeing what others are seeing. It's just super basic plotting and the acting is just Ok. I have really liked the creepy stuff this season but we get an entire episode without it and people think it's the best in the series. I care zero about Ellie because she's at her best kind of annoying and at her worst just an awful person and then we have Joel who is already dead so it's hard to appreciate anything dealing with him anyways.

 

[Stafford]

What specifically?

Are you talking about Eugene?

In the game you never see him, he's just mentioned in notes and Ellie had a familiarity with him, he's said to be a rare case where someone died of old age instead of raiders or the infected.

Well, I do remember seeing cutscenes of the game and where Ellie was pissed off at Joel, and this was before the big "reveal" about what happened at the end of season 1.

But this whole Eugene thing is never shown in the game? I probably should look up a story summary of the game.

 

[adamsapple]

But this whole Eugene thing is never shown in the game? I probably should look up a story summary of the game.

Yep, it's made just for the show. Eugene is a non-entity in the games.

Same with Joel's father, that's all unique to the show. You never see young Joel / Tommy in the games.

 

[DragoonKain]

Yeah he's not shown in the game. I believe you find a photo of him and I remember you find his medallion with his name on it. Dina talks about him, in the game he and Dina were close.

 

[Bartski]

The 5 Biggest Problems With ‘The Last Of Us’ Season 2

The Last Of Us has lost a lot of what made Season 1 so great. Here are the five biggest problems with Season 2 as we approach the finale.

www.forbes.com

Season 2, however, is not working, and not for the reasons I worried about. I have a number of problems with the second game. Some of my issues with it boil down to disagreements with Naughty Dog's choices. Some are rooted in how it made me feel. I found the game hard to get through simply because it was so bleak and depressing. I hated the inciting event: Joel being killed off so early was hard for me, and losing the relationship between Joel and Ellie so early left a great big gaping wound in the story.

Somehow, Season 2 of the HBO adaptation is making me like the game more than I ever did in the past. The show's shortcomings are making the game's strengths more apparent. Perhaps I just needed some distance from it all before I could really appreciate just how brilliant the game really was, even if I still find it bleak and depressing compared to the first.

I stumbled across this video on reddit and I think that while it's played for laughs, it really drives home the difference between the show's approach to Ellie and Dina and the game's approach. This is, at this point in the story, the primary relationship and while a lot of the same beats take place in both the game and the show, the way things are portrayed is radically different. The video (which is very short, you should watch it) compares the exact same scene in the game and the show.

The game's scene is layered and complex. There's so much going on that isn't spoken. They're discussing the map in both scenes, but in the game there's so much rich subtext. The dynamic between the two characters is filled with unspoken resentment, guilt, and feeling. The show's version is filled with jokes and playful banter. One feels like two mature characters on a serious, deadly revenge mission. The other feels like a sitcom.

Ellie is portrayed as a plucky, unserious little girl throughout Season 2, as if she's barely grown a day past fourteen (and this isn't helped by Bella's youthful looks). This leads to some very weird dynamics between these characters. At times, it feels as though Dina is more invested in revenge than Ellie

 

[DragoonKain]

I agree with a lot of those complaints. I still think the porch conversation was good though, just not as good as in the game. It was a lot more subtle. Awkward even. Ellie and Joel didn't really say much in that scene and it was done like that on purpose. But Joel in the game is a lot tougher and harder, and the show made him softer to appeal more to audiences, so I think the porch convo fit show Joel more. The problem is making show Joel softer in the first place and not treating your audience like children.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

him softer to appeal more to audiences

 

[Stafford]

Yep, it's made just for the show. Eugene is a non-entity in the games.

Same with Joel's father, that's all unique to the show. You never see young Joel / Tommy in the games.

Yeah he's not shown in the game. I believe you find a photo of him and I remember you find his medallion with his name on it. Dina talks about him, in the game he and Dina were close.

Oooh, I see. So while in the show Ellie is clearly pissed off at him, because he lied to Eugenes wife, this never happens in the game? Only Joel admitting to her that he rescued her?

 

[DragoonKain]

I wasn't a huge fan of the "if you have kids of your own one day, I hope you do a little better than me" callback though. Main reason is because killing an entire hospital of people wasn't a parenting decision. I mean, he's a de facto parent. But this is not like raising your kids by beating them with a belt or having a strict curfew. Joel's hospital carnage decision was a whole other animal entirely. Also also, we know they're going to call back to that again when Ellie almost kills Abby, and that callback is going to make her stop. And when they do it's going to make zero sense because killing Abby has nothing to do with parenting.

 

[DragoonKain]

Oooh, I see. So while in the show Ellie is clearly pissed off at him, because he lied to Eugenes wife, this never happens in the game? Only Joel admitting to her that he rescued her?

Yeah in the game Joel tells Ellie(in an entirely different moment than the show) what he did at the hospital and she's absolutely heartbroken and appalled by it and it really hurts their relationship.

 

[adamsapple]

Oooh, I see. So while in the show Ellie is clearly pissed off at him, because he lied to Eugenes wife, this never happens in the game? Only Joel admitting to her that he rescued her?

Yes, the situation is different in the game.

Ellie goes back to the hospital from the end of the first game / season 1 and finds out herself that Joel lied about the immunity stuff and there being more immune people, she threatens Joel to tell her the truth otherwise she'll leave Jackson, Joel tells her the truth, so while she stays, she completely cuts off communication with Joel. (the scene that happens in the show at the porch with the guitar plays out differently in the game, that scene happens much later and Ellie had already known about the Fireflies by then).

They've shuffled the order of some things around and removed the part about Ellie going back to the hospital entirely.

This is how that segment is in the game (her finding out the truth):

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I wasn't a huge fan of the "if you have kids of your own one day, I hope you do a little better than me" callback though. Main reason is because killing an entire hospital of people wasn't a parenting decision. I mean, he's a de facto parent. But this is not like raising your kids by beating them with a belt or having a strict curfew. Joel's hospital carnage decision was a whole other animal entirely. Also also, we know they're going to call back to that again when Ellie almost kills Abby, and that callback is going to make her stop. And when they do it's going to make zero sense because killing Abby has nothing to do with parenting.

nothing is about parenting. Joel says this like 4 times in the first game:

It's about survival.

 

[Insane Metal]

The 5 Biggest Problems With ‘The Last Of Us’ Season 2

The Last Of Us has lost a lot of what made Season 1 so great. Here are the five biggest problems with Season 2 as we approach the finale.

www.forbes.com

Yes. The game is much better than the show.

 

[Bartski]

Yes. The game is much better than the show.

Like I said, I think the latest episode was the highlight of the series. 4 and 5, though, were a complete trainwreck, and this article nails it

 

[DragoonKain]

I say this somewhat facetiously, but I find it funny that Joel is a handyman, jack of all trades type of guy. Can fix, create, repair anything, but in season 1 he couldn't fix his watch.

I hope they hear the criticisms of this season and fix them for season 3 though. Make it darker and more somber. If they made Ellie come off as angrier and more bloodthirsty, that fix alone would take this season up multiple notches for me, even with some of the scene placement I disagreed with. That fix alone would go a long way. Need that Ellie in seasons 3 and 4.

 

[Stafford]

Yes, the situation is different in the game.

Ellie goes back to the hospital from the end of the first game / season 1 and finds out herself that Joel lied about the immunity stuff and there being more immune people, she threatens Joel to tell her the truth otherwise she'll leave Jackson, Joel tells her the truth, so while she stays, she completely cuts off communication with Joel. (the scene that happens in the show at the porch with the guitar plays out differently in the game, that scene happens much later and Ellie had already known about the Fireflies by then).

They've shuffled the order of some things around and removed the part about Ellie going back to the hospital entirely.

This is how that segment is in the game (her finding out the truth):

Oh wow, so specifically for the show they made Joel the one who shot him, this never was once mentioned in the game? That's a pretty big addition then.

 

[Neff]

its the sound guy

I'm not so sure

 

[Pedro Motta]

Yes, the situation is different in the game.

Ellie goes back to the hospital from the end of the first game / season 1 and finds out herself that Joel lied about the immunity stuff and there being more immune people, she threatens Joel to tell her the truth otherwise she'll leave Jackson, Joel tells her the truth, so while she stays, she completely cuts off communication with Joel. (the scene that happens in the show at the porch with the guitar plays out differently in the game, that scene happens much later and Ellie had already known about the Fireflies by then).

They've shuffled the order of some things around and removed the part about Ellie going back to the hospital entirely.

This is how that segment is in the game (her finding out the truth):

DAMN, this is so good. Well, now I have to go for my fourth playthrough.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Yes, the situation is different in the game.

Ellie goes back to the hospital from the end of the first game / season 1 and finds out herself that Joel lied about the immunity stuff and there being more immune people, she threatens Joel to tell her the truth otherwise she'll leave Jackson, Joel tells her the truth, so while she stays, she completely cuts off communication with Joel. (the scene that happens in the show at the porch with the guitar plays out differently in the game, that scene happens much later and Ellie had already known about the Fireflies by then).

They've shuffled the order of some things around and removed the part about Ellie going back to the hospital entirely.

This is how that segment is in the game (her finding out the truth):

That's a very broad interpretation of telling the truth, it completely leaves out the situation the Fireflies put Joel and Ellie in and are we supposed to believe Ellie wouldn't have wanted to see Joel again after passing out from nearly drowning? Come on.

 

[VulcanRaven]

I wish they hadn't changed how Joel tell's the truth but the episode was so good that I didn't care. One of the best.

 

[DragoonKain]

Anyone think season 3 they will actually show Abby's hospital scenes next season? They showed a glimpse in Abby's dream state, but I wonder if when they show Abby's perspective if they'll start from the very beginning chronologically or if they'll skip that part because they already had the dream scene.

 

[cormack12]

Wouldn't the sensible thing to do be let Ellie mature then pop a kid out to see if the immunity is passed on genetically first? Honestly I hate this whole mess dressed up in 'ambiguity'. The only guarantee was to try, and to try was to kill. And apparently there's only one person left in the entire world who had the appropriate medical knowledge. Cmon man. Weak ass.

Anyway, I didn't mind the episode too much, the whole thing - ironically - was Ellie was trying to forgive Joel anyway and move past the truth - in the game. And at the end she obviously realises what Joel said, he would do it all again. And she realises that she wouldn't, and that's what breaks the metaphorical circle Neil likes to fellate.



I honestly can't get past Bella as Ellie though. It's such a terrible miscast in every way. Every take she is in a scene it pulls me out the moment. I'm like has Natalie Cassidy, Tracey Beaker or some Nickelodeon kid run onto the wrong set.

 

[DragoonKain]

Wouldn't the sensible thing to do be let Ellie mature then pop a kid out to see if the immunity is passed on genetically first? Honestly I hate this whole mess dressed up in 'ambiguity'. The only guarantee was to try, and to try was to kill. And apparently there's only one person left in the entire world who had the appropriate medical knowledge. Cmon man. Weak ass.

Anyway, I didn't mind the episode too much, the whole thing - ironically - was Ellie was trying to forgive Joel anyway and move past the truth - in the game. And at the end she obviously realises what Joel said, he would do it all again. And she realises that she wouldn't, and that's what breaks the metaphorical circle Neil likes to fellate.



I honestly can't get past Bella as Ellie though. It's such a terrible miscast in every way. Every take she is in a scene it pulls me out the moment. I'm like has Natalie Cassidy, Tracey Beaker or some Nickelodeon kid run onto the wrong set.

I love the subtleties of that scene in the game. When Joel says he'd do it all over again, Ellie gives this very distinct reaction. We can only guess what's going on in her head, but I always took it as her realizing that he cares for her so much that he's willing to kill the whole planet just to save her. And while she may disagree with him, it's hard to hold a grudge against someone who loves you that much. So she kinda just accepts that's how it's going to be in that moment. And may always be pissed at him for it, but she'll always love him too. Which in future events becomes very obvious based on how hurt she is by losing him. She chooses avenging him over Dina and her own kid(not biological).

 

[DrFigs]

Wouldn't the sensible thing to do be let Ellie mature then pop a kid out to see if the immunity is passed on genetically first? Honestly I hate this whole mess dressed up in 'ambiguity'. The only guarantee was to try, and to try was to kill. And apparently there's only one person left in the entire world who had the appropriate medical knowledge. Cmon man. Weak ass.

Anyway, I didn't mind the episode too much, the whole thing - ironically - was Ellie was trying to forgive Joel anyway and move past the truth - in the game. And at the end she obviously realises what Joel said, he would do it all again. And she realises that she wouldn't, and that's what breaks the metaphorical circle Neil likes to fellate.



I honestly can't get past Bella as Ellie though. It's such a terrible miscast in every way. Every take she is in a scene it pulls me out the moment. I'm like has Natalie Cassidy, Tracey Beaker or some Nickelodeon kid run onto the wrong set.

yes it seems like a cruel twist of fate that the only immune person in this world is a lesbian.

 

[Ulysses 31]

yes it seems like a cruel twist of fate that the only immune person in this world is a lesbian.

Who's supposedly willing to die for a cure but won't explore if her immunity is hereditary.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

yes it seems like a cruel twist of fate that the only immune person in this world is a lesbian.

Not really. Only if you ignore math.

Even assuming that immunity is passed genetically 100% of the time and getting aggressive and making your entire life about child bearing, you're going to max out at 20-25 kids.

It would take decades of repopulation like this to even reach even 1,000 immune people. This isn't even factoring in people dying of sickness, raider attacks, war, or infected attacks that are fatal rather than just infectious....

You'd have to almost certainly instill some level of polygamy and hope for lots of male offspring.

To get to a million, you're looking at a century.

Realistically, there are easier ways of pruning the infected, namely being widespread co-operation and lawfulness in order to get rid of infected altogether.

 

[Shakka43]

I say this somewhat facetiously, but I find it funny that Joel is a handyman, jack of all trades type of guy. Can fix, create, repair anything, but in season 1 he couldn't fix his watch.

I hope they hear the criticisms of this season and fix them for season 3 though. Make it darker and more somber. If they made Ellie come off as angrier and more bloodthirsty, that fix alone would take this season up multiple notches for me, even with some of the scene placement I disagreed with. That fix alone would go a long way. Need that Ellie in seasons 3 and 4.

I think the watch died at the same time as his little girl. I don't think I'd fix it either.

 

[Hugare]

Like I said, I think the latest episode was the highlight of the series. 4 and 5, though, were a complete trainwreck, and this article nails it

It's evident that Craig Mazin fucked up the series. Neil had to fight with him to include Future Days for season 2, ffs.

And the only episode that we've had so far that feels like TLOU was written by Neil/Halley. No shit it was the best.

Maybe Neil can still savage season 3 if Intergalatic ships sooner, but I dont think so.

This should serve as a wake up call to those who still think that Neil cant write.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Not really. Only if you ignore math.

Even assuming that immunity is passed genetically 100% of the time and getting aggressive and making your entire life about child bearing, you're going to max out at 20-25 kids.

It would take decades of repopulation like this to even reach even 1,000 immune people. This isn't even factoring in people dying of sickness, raider attacks, war, or infected attacks that are fatal rather than just infectious....

You'd have to almost certainly instill some level of polygamy and hope for lots of male offspring.

To get to a million, you're looking at a century.

Realistically, there are easier ways of pruning the infected, namely being widespread co-operation and lawfulness in order to get rid of infected altogether.

And what's the math on the cure the Fireflies were planning to bring? We have no idea on their capacity to make more vaccines or how they were going to distribute it(and assuming they do it fairly). They were close to disbanding so how could they protect their stock from raiders.

And as you alluded to, being vaccinated against the infection doesn't help against being ripped apart by clickers or other dangers of that world.

 

[DragoonKain]

I think the watch died at the same time as his little girl. I don't think I'd fix it either.

I meant when she fixes it before she dies. Remember it was his birthday present. She paid to get it repaired.

 

[Zephyranthes]

Got mixed feelings about episode 6. On one hand, it's far and away the best episode of the season so far. It's incredibly well acted, and I even like some of the narrative alterations, like having Ellie figure out Joel was lying about Salt Lake by examining the holes in his story rather than finding a highly specific and incredibly convenient recording that basically spells it out for her.

However, I still can't get over how incompatible Mazin's creative vision for Ellie is with Druckmann's, and now seeing them side-by-side within the same season of television creates all sorts of character continuity issues. Most significantly, Ellie's motivation for shunning Joel is totally incongruent with her personality: that she would so deeply resent him for being dishonest with her makes her look like a massive hypocrite when you have entire scenes of this show being devoted to discussing what a profoundly dishonest person she is.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

And what's the math on the cure the Fireflies were planning to bring? We have no idea on their capacity to make more vaccines or how they were going to distribute it(and assuming they do it fairly). They were close to disbanding so how could they protect their stock from raiders.

And as you alluded to, being vaccinated against the infection doesn't help against being ripped apart by clickers or other dangers of that world.

I think the world is too fargone even for a vaccine. You think the scars are taking a vaccine? No chance. You have people who are literally cannibals, you don't go back to normal society from that.

 

[Woggleman]

Neil Druckman should take more if the reigns for next season. The episode he directed for season one was great as well. People say he is a hack but when he takes charge we get the best episodes.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Great interview with Neil here.

 

[Shakka43]

I meant when she fixes it before she dies. Remember it was his birthday present. She paid to get it repaired.

Oh, I see.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I say this somewhat facetiously, but I find it funny that Joel is a handyman, jack of all trades type of guy. Can fix, create, repair anything, but in season 1 he couldn't fix his watch.

I think you missed the characterization here.

I work in IT. I had a bad fan on my desktop PC at home for the better part of a year. My solution? I ran the PC with the noise in the background for months before deciding to just leave the desktop shutdown and use my laptop and iPad.

Eventually I did fix it and it took me all of 4 or 5 minutes to put in a new fan. Sometimes you don't want to work on stuff yourself if you don't have to.

Joel is handy, but he uses that for other people. Everything you see him doing, he's doing for Ellie or for others in the community, not for himself.

In the first episode when Sarah gives him the watch, she said "I knew you wouldn't do it yourself." It's not that he can't fix it, but rather his energy is focused on her and Tommy.

 

[engstra]

I meant when she fixes it before she dies. Remember it was his birthday present. She paid to get it repaired.

What the last episode shows is that that watch belonged to Joel's dad who he had a complicated relationship with. I suspect Joel had no plan of ever repairing but his daughter happened to find it and repair it as a nice surprise

 

[Mibu no ookami]

What the last episode shows is that that watch belonged to Joel's dad who he had a complicated relationship with. I suspect Joel had no plan of ever repairing but his daughter happened to find it and repair it as a nice surprise

Great point

 

[DragoonKain]

Anyone notice when Bella gets angry she does this head bob thing? I'm too lazy to make a video compilation but go back to the scenes

You swore!
You should have never come to Jackson!
You took that from me! You took that from everyone
etc

She does this little head bob thing when she's angry with her acting. Once I started noticing it I couldn't stop fixating on it.

 

[MSduderino]

The Eugene storyline adds a lot in terms of solidifying Joel lying to people to protect them. It is also parallels nicely with Joel protecting his brother in the flashback. Before this episode I thought Joel's portrayal in the show was a little too morally good, and this episode made him more ambivalent.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

The Eugene storyline adds a lot in terms of solidifying Joel lying to people to protect them. It is also parallels nicely with Joel protecting his brother in the flashback. Before this episode I thought Joel's portrayal in the show was a little too morally good, and this episode made him more ambivalent.

The man shot everyone inside a hospital last season...

 

[keefged4]

At this point I'm just hate watching this, its shite. Not even going to bother watching it anymore or the next season. I love LTOU pt2 honestly, but the changes to the story and the overall tone of the tv show are abysmal. Pish.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

Anyone notice when Bella gets angry she does this head bob thing? I'm too lazy to make a video compilation but go back to the scenes

You swore!
You should have never come to Jackson!
You took that from me! You took that from everyone
etc

She does this little head bob thing when she's angry with her acting. Once I started noticing it I couldn't stop fixating on it.

Also has a lisp when shes angry or shouts. I think she struggles to maintain the American accent so the lisp comes out .

 

[SILKYSMOOTH30FPS]

Watched the first 6 episodes of the first season, and that was enough. No idea how one can waste their time on this trash. Its as bad as watching the Halo show

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The man shot everyone inside a hospital last season...

And confessed to killing innocent people prior to that.

He tortured a guy and killed two unarmed people, including the guy he tortured.

He also killed a kid that Ellie paralyzed...

He also killed that FEDRA soldier who found them outside the QZ...

People fascinate me.

 

[DragoonKain]

Joel isn't too morally good in the show, but they did undeniably make him softer. He's way more emotional in the show. In the game he only has two scenes between both games where he cries(post Sarah death). Tbh I think the drop off between Game Joel to Show Joel is bigger than the drop off from Game Ellie to Show Ellie at times. But it varies from scene to scene. The porch scene alone you see such a big difference between the Joels. Joel in the game very very rarely shows emotion, so when he does you know it's impactful. The only one who has ever been able to crack his exterior emotionally has been Ellie.

I prefer the more rugged and hard ass Joel. It makes the things he does more believable. Again, the game just does subtleties infinitely better than the show.

 

[Nocty]

Watched the first 6 episodes of the first season, and that was enough. No idea how one can waste their time on this trash. Its as bad as watching the Halo show

you watched 6 episodes then post this? XD

 

[Jimmy_liv]

I wasn't a huge fan of the "if you have kids of your own one day, I hope you do a little better than me" callback though. Main reason is because killing an entire hospital of people wasn't a parenting decision. I mean, he's a de facto parent. But this is not like raising your kids by beating them with a belt or having a strict curfew. Joel's hospital carnage decision was a whole other animal entirely. Also also, we know they're going to call back to that again when Ellie almost kills Abby, and that callback is going to make her stop. And when they do it's going to make zero sense because killing Abby has nothing to do with parenting.

Apart from the fact that Abbie is parenting Lev.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I wasn't a huge fan of the "if you have kids of your own one day, I hope you do a little better than me" callback though. Main reason is because killing an entire hospital of people wasn't a parenting decision. I mean, he's a de facto parent. But this is not like raising your kids by beating them with a belt or having a strict curfew. Joel's hospital carnage decision was a whole other animal entirely. Also also, we know they're going to call back to that again when Ellie almost kills Abby, and that callback is going to make her stop. And when they do it's going to make zero sense because killing Abby has nothing to do with parenting.

Putting your vengeance ahead of your family isn't related to parenting?

Lying to your kid isn't related to parenting? Killing someone close to your child isn't related to parenting? Robbing her of a choice you know she wants to make isn't related to parenting?

Being better wasn't simply about not beating them. That's such a myopic view of what they were talking about. Joel's grandfather didn't beat his father because he was a bad parent, it's because he made bad choices in order to protect his kid and Joel's father did the same thing. Those choices alienated them from their kids, just as Joel's decisions alienate him from Ellie.

Joel's grandfather was trying to prevent Joel's father from becoming a thief. He wanted to keep him on the right side of the law. He went too far, but Joel's father ends up becoming a police officer. That's probably not a coincidence. Joel's father similarly wanted to keep his boys out of trouble which is why he hits them. He's heartbroken when he realizes that his kids feel the same way about him that he felt about his dad.

Joel isn't too morally good in the show, but they did undeniably make him softer. He's way more emotional in the show. In the game he only has two scenes between both games where he cries(post Sarah death). Tbh I think the drop off between Game Joel to Show Joel is bigger than the drop off from Game Ellie to Show Ellie at times. But it varies from scene to scene. The porch scene alone you see such a big difference between the Joels. Joel in the game very very rarely shows emotion, so when he does you know it's impactful. The only one who has ever been able to crack his exterior emotionally has been Ellie.

I prefer the more rugged and hard ass Joel. It makes the things he does more believable. Again, the game just does subtleties infinitely better than the show.

It's a different medium with a different focus, but Game Joel is way more emotional than you're letting on to.

Pedro will probably win an emmy because of his performances in season 2.

 

[SILKYSMOOTH30FPS]

you watched 6 episodes then post this? XD

It was more than enough. Couldn't sleep for over 48h after the last episode. A disgusting show. And this is coming from someone who doesn't only like TLOU2, but i prefer it over TLOU1 in every single way, which i don't imagine many are on the same boat as i.