HBO Original | The Last of Us | Part II OT | You Can't Stop This

March Climber said:
Mibu no ookami Mibu no ookami Again these are just my worries. I want you to be right, because otherwise it just results in a weaker show and in that case no one will have a good time here.
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I think when it comes to Team Ellie vs Team Abby, the action scenes won't disappoint. I've been re-visting some on youtube in advance and I think they're peak cinema.

Especially Ellie vs Nora and Tommy vs Abby and Manny.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
Ellie is Joel's legacy, but Joel also has a legacy of violence and there are consequences to the violence he puts into the world. That's just a reality.

Game of Thrones isn't poorly thought of because the characters didn't have plot armor, it was poorly thought of big the last 2-3 seasons were trash and rushed.

Joel is able to find meaning in his life again, but as I said that came at a cost. It seems like you want something with a happy Hollywood ending and that isn't this. It's great that Hollywood is treating things with more nuance and maturity. That's probably not for everyone though and it doesn't seem like it is for you.

You compare Studio Ghibli movies to Disney movies and it's the exact same. I don't see anyone complaining about nihilism in Grave of the Fireflies or Princess Mononoke though. More important than redemptive is contemplative and though provoking, but hey, that's just like my opinion man... It's funny that you quote Big Lebowski here and that movie sticks with you, but where exactly was the redemptive arc there? There was none at all...
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I'd argue that nihilism really isn't all that nuanced or mature.

Redemptive doesn't have to mean happy ending. Red Dead 2 doesn't have a happy ending but it does have a redemptive one. As for the Big Lebowski, the Dude is a very zen-like character. Coen Brothers films tend to have deep spiritual and religious meanings beneath the surface. Haven't seen the Ghibli films you mention, that's still on my to-do list.

I strongly believe that if you're going to start a story the way TLOU starts, you owe the audience more than what TLOU2 gives them. It feels like the story was hijacked to be about something else.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
Half the cast of Game of Thrones gets killed off and less people whined and complained and its the biggest show in television history.

These kids are soft.

Will some people tune out? I'm sure they will. That's why characters tend to have plot armor in fiction until at least the end of the story.

You can already see some of the changes that they've made and the road those changes will lead us on.

Tommy's decision to leave and go after Team Abby is going to be bigger since he has a kid for example.
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What's also different is that we get to see them explore other characters. They said Tommy is a standout character in Season 2, so we might get to see him in Seattle during Day 1 and 2.
 
captainnapalm said:
I'd argue that nihilism really isn't all that nuanced or mature.

Redemptive doesn't have to mean happy ending. Red Dead 2 doesn't have a happy ending but it does have a redemptive one. As for the Big Lebowski, the Dude is a very zen-like character. Coen Brothers films tend to have deep spiritual and religious meanings beneath the surface. Haven't seen the Ghibli films you mention, that's still on my to-do list.

I strongly believe that if you're going to start a story the way TLOU starts, you owe the audience more than what TLOU2 gives them. It feels like the story was hijacked to be about something else.
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TLOU2 has a philosophical meaning.

Definitely check out Ghibli movies.

Have you seen Children of Men? TLOU2 has a different theme than TLOU, that doesn't mean it hijacked anything.
 
captainnapalm said:
I'd argue that nihilism really isn't all that nuanced or mature.

Redemptive doesn't have to mean happy ending. Red Dead 2 doesn't have a happy ending but it does have a redemptive one. As for the Big Lebowski, the Dude is a very zen-like character. Coen Brothers films tend to have deep spiritual and religious meanings beneath the surface. Haven't seen the Ghibli films you mention, that's still on my to-do list.

I strongly believe that if you're going to start a story the way TLOU starts, you owe the audience more than what TLOU2 gives them. It feels like the story was hijacked to be about something else.
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TLOU 1 is self contained. So the audience isn't owed anything. Also, it's not difficult to argue that TLOU 1 is just as nihilistic, negative and even less redemptive. Ellie goes to the emotional depths of hell in part 2 and comes out redeemed (at least in her mind). She actually let it all go. 1 has no redemption for either character. She was "saved". Not redeemed. And neither was he. If those are the reasons to hate part 2, then you should hate part 1 even more. I just feel a lot of these rationalizations are happening after disliking the show for other reasons (such as wokeness, Joel being spat on and killed so shockingly, Abby's muscles, unmemorable side characters etc). Once you don't like something so strongly, everything about it looks bad.
 
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captainnapalm said:
Is there? Seems the whole point of the game is that revenge is bad and the cycle of violence it causes is bad. It's an Israeli (Druckmann) making the story about the fucked up place he's from.
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Avengers is about saving the world.
Batman is about saving Gotham.

There are always layers to a story.

Character relationships, goals, struggles, etc., are all important. Do you think the ending of The Dark Knight Rises was considered special just because Batman survived? Or was the moment built up because throughout the film when they explored Alfred and Bruce's relationship?
 
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Neil is cool with so many Horror guys in Hollywood, I have high hopes for the Rat King scene, if it happenes this season. (Probably next.)
 
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I'm very excited about episode 2. I like that it seems (show/game spoilers)
that Joel and Dina are on the patrol based on photos. Interesting way to change it and it gives Dina more motivation for later.
 
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MSduderino said:
I respectfully disagree and personally can have just as much empathy for less attractive people. You think the main character needs to be physically attractive. This is not a fact, but your opinion. I think others (such as myself) are looking past her looks and don't have any problem with that as it relates to her character or the story as a whole.
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You're talking bs. He's right and you know it
 
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Just watched the first episode of season 2 and she's nothing like Ellie. Really takes me out. I'll be thinking of her as Nellie, a separate character alltogether.
 
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It's funny to me to see people really struggle with nonlinear storytelling.

I've seen people saying Ellie couldn't have been this angry for 5 years not understanding that events happen DURING the 5 years i.e. her finding out what Joel did in clearer detail.

I've seen the same people struggle with understanding who Eugene (Gail's husband) is, despite the exposition dump when Gail said that it was her birthday and her first birthday without Eugene, which tells us that Joel killed Eugene within the last year. A lot of them are saying they don't remember who Eugene is... well you don't know Eugene, just like you don't know Gail... jesus christ...

There's a 5 year time jump and the show already established that it does flashbacks yet people are just totally lost in the sauce here... It's kind of wild. I feel bad for the writers.
 
Mibu no ookami said:
It's funny to me to see people really struggle with nonlinear storytelling.

I've seen people saying Ellie couldn't have been this angry for 5 years not understanding that events happen DURING the 5 years i.e. her finding out what Joel did in clearer detail.

I've seen the same people struggle with understanding who Eugene (Gail's husband) is, despite the exposition dump when Gail said that it was her birthday and her first birthday without Eugene, which tells us that Joel killed Eugene within the last year. A lot of them are saying they don't remember who Eugene is... well you don't know Eugene, just like you don't know Gail... jesus christ...

There's a 5 year time jump and the show already established that it does flashbacks yet people are just totally lost in the sauce here... It's kind of wild. I feel bad for the writers.
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Media literacy is dead. Don't feel bad for the writers. They aren't the ones failing here.
 
Tiago Rodrigues said:
Media literacy is dead. Don't feel bad for the writers. They aren't the ones failing here.
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They also struggle navigating an unreliable narrator.

Joel tells Dina that he doesn't know what he did wrong (he does) and that it's just teething issues between a parent and child (it isn't).

The episode even leans in further to say that Joel is lying during his therapy session with Gail, but viewers (who themselves know Joel is lying) still don't understand what Ellie is angry about or that Joel is lying...

I guess this is why gaslighting is effective, people want to be gaslit. They want to believe the people they side with are in the right, even if they don't agree with them in practice.

I've literally seen people call Joel a villain and then immediately turn around and ask why Ellie is angry at him...
 
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Tiago Rodrigues said:
This was posted before and no one took it seriously. Specially after one episode
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I wont even click on to give him additional views. It's crazy how much rage bait and click bait runs the internet and how people line up for it despite knowing exactly what it is.

Imagine thinking you can ascertain the quality of a season based on one episode or even that that episode was somehow awful. These people are sad.
 
I guess it should be expected there's a lot of hate watchers for this season. Gonna have to sift out the trolls from those actually trying to enjoy the show with nuanced criticism.
 
It's also crazy to me how people struggle with non-dialogue scenes.

  • Not understanding why the clicker doesn't get shot immediately when Ellie shoots with the rifle from a distance
  • Not understanding what Ellie is doing with the knife, cutting out the bite mark to make it look like it's not a bite mark
  • Understanding the difference between cordyceps and roots
  • Some people even thought Dina was Ellie despite having just seen Ellie in the previous scene...
 
AeonGaidenRaiden said:
You do know there are reviews on teh whole season as some people recieved full access to all episodes? We get to watch 1 by 1, they got all 7 in order to write a review.
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I'm not planning to watch that video but is it about the whole season or just the first episode?
 
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The 1st season Bella was an ok casting but she's really gonna have to convince me she has the acting chops and strength to portray ellie in the sequel.

Saw that clip above. You can't just be older to play 19 year old ellie. Not sure she gets it.
 
MSduderino said:
I guess it should be expected there's a lot of hate watchers for this season. Gonna have to sift out the trolls from those actually trying to enjoy the show with nuanced criticism.
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Ah yes, the good ol' "everyone that doesn't agree with my opinion is a Troll/hater/racist/homophobe/transphobe/whatever"

There's no "nuanced" discussion/criticism to be had since people like you just want to have a monologue and criticize those who don't fall in line with your line of view.

Tens of users in here already mentioned the why they don't like the show but no, that's apparently just "trolls" or "-ists" to you.

Also : it's a show for fuck's sake, disposable entertainment, try not to take it personally while also injecting your moral or political views, it's not that serious of a matter (being a holier than thou internet knight is though).
 
Giallo Corsa said:
Ah yes, the good ol' "everyone that doesn't agree with my opinion is a Troll/hater/racist/homophobe/transphobe/whatever"

There's no "nuanced" discussion/criticism to be had since people like you just want to have a monologue and criticize those who don't fall in line with your line of view.

Tens of users in here already mentioned the why they don't like the show but no, that's apparently just "trolls" or "-ists" to you.

Also : it's a show for fuck's sake, disposable entertainment, try not to take it personally while also injecting your moral or political views, it's not that serious of a matter (being a holier than thou internet knight is though).
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Perfectly fine to disagree with me but those on my side are sick of the discussion on Bella's looks. That's not a nuanced discussion to me and it isn't relevant to my enjoyment of the show. Those too bothered by her lack of attractiveness are injecting more of their views, imo.
 
Abby is still a right cunt who I wish would die. Irredeemable bitch spend like 6 minutes monologuing.
The people she's with are absolute pussies who can't control anything and just roll over and let her dictate anything she wants. It's really fucking annoying.
 
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I will say I thought episode 2 was decent. They did the most they could at making this dogshit story from Part 2 somewhat entertaining at least, even if they can't make it good. Lots of infected action which I liked.
 
Hugare said:
So Ellie outright said she made peace with Joel. On episode 2.

Are they fucking serious?

Sylvester Stallone Facepalm GIF
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So like in the game when Ellie tells Dina she was gonna watch a movie with Joel that night and Dina asks her if they talked about things and Ellie says they are working things through?

We already knew in the game they had talked before the moment happened and that they were going to meet later that day lol.
 
My wife, who never played the games hates Abby and isn't sure she will keep watching the show after tonight's episode.
 
viveks86 said:
I feel like they might leave it on a cliffhanger and finish it off on the next one

PS: I haven't even watched episode 1 yet. Going to wait till the season finale and binge them back to back.
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You wouldn't want to spoil yourself by being in the OT, right?
 
Much better than episode 1 IMO, it was action packed. I think the game's version was a lot better. Understandable since it's a game and plot points have much more time to cook.

What I thought the game did better:

In the game it was a total surprise. In the show it wasn't since they basically let us know Abby wanted Joel before the fact. Also in the game you get to play as Abby in the flashback where her dad is killed and see her discover his body and it absolutely wrecks her, it humanizes her. In the show she just references her dad. Not as powerful.

Still a good enough episode though curious to see how many fans react to it. I suspect episode 3 will be museum episode? Or possibly episode 4? My favorite part from the game.
 
Hugare said:
So Ellie outright said she made peace with Joel. On episode 2.

Are they fucking serious?

Sylvester Stallone Facepalm GIF
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Uh. Did you play the game?

There was definitely a talk that happened that will be shown in flashbacks I imagine.

Are you fucking serious?

edit : Episode was great. Haters gonna hate.
 
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This was peak TV. I liked that they made sure they knew they got the right guy. It wasn't as rushed as the game. Same as Dina and Joel accepting that stranger out of nowhere, etc...

Production values were through the roof as well. Reminded me of Hardhome from GoT at times. Holy shit i can't even imagine what twitter looks like. Let me check lmao.
 
Well done HBO, well done. Bone chilling stuff.

For non-game fans this is like Hardhome and The Red Wedding in the same episode lol.
 
WoJ said:
My wife, who never played the games hates Abby and isn't sure she will keep watching the show after tonight's episode.
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It'll be very interesting to see if the audience reaction(i.e. viewership) tanks in response.

I'd also be interested to see if the audience reaction echos that of the game response, where people just..didn't like it.

I seem to recall that happened in Walking Dead after the
death of Glenn by Negan
. We'll see.
 
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