Diogodx
Neo Member
His mother is Rhaenys Targaryen. The power to bond with dragons is on the blood not in the name.
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Tams
Member
Fucking loving this! The story is advancing nicely, with good time jumps, the characters are being fleshed out, and there's plenty of intrigue and cunning.
Oh, and actors who can act, and cinematographers that know what they are doing.
Matt Smith is better than I thought he'd be (never thought he'd be bad, but was unsure about this role for him). Milly Alcock has a bright future if she can keep this up.
Much better than that other show.
Oh, and actors who can act, and cinematographers that know what they are doing.
Matt Smith is better than I thought he'd be (never thought he'd be bad, but was unsure about this role for him). Milly Alcock has a bright future if she can keep this up.
Much better than that other show.
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PaddyOCanager
Member
Well, she is a teenager first of all. Also, Viserys was being a hypocrite - he chose happiness instead of doing the right thing as king, yet expected her to forgo her happiness and do her duty? The fact he took 2 years to talk to her about it is his fault. She straight up called him out on his bullshit, and he told her she was right.
Viserys is a terrible king and Rhaenyra is justified in being pissed at him. Viserys did nothing to dispel the question of succession, which put Rhaenyra in an awful position and he let it fester for 2 years. He took her best friend away from her, alienated her uncle, and has been trying to marry her off. He finally made things right with her this episode. But to say Rhaenyra is in the wrong here........I just straight up disagree.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What a marvelous episode of drama, character building, and mother fucking balls out action that looks better than 99% of the movies released in the last five years.
I know i sound like a broken record, but HBO fucking rocks. Not the HBO max trash tv shows they produced (and have mercifully cancelled) but the high quality, big budget, high concept drams like GoT, Chernobyl, Watchmen, Westword, Euphoria and now this spinoff I was 100% was going to suck ass because the final season of GoT. No one nails every single aspect of a tv show like this. Not apple, disney, amazon, netflix or even AMC which is a cut above the rest but still doesnt have the budget of HBO shows. Disney has the budget, but i cant watch 20 minute shows. I just cant do it. this isnt budget tv, it's HBO. $20 minutes are for fucking sitcoms.
Anyway, Im so glad HBO is back. I was in a black hole of mediocre to bad tv ever since GoT ended with a whimper and Westworld season 3 somehow managed to suck worse. But with Euphoria, Chernobyl, Watchmen and now Westworld making a shocking comeback with an incredible 4th season, i feel like im back in the golden age of tv when Mad Men, Breaking Bad, GoT and True Detective were on every sunday.
I know i sound like a broken record, but HBO fucking rocks. Not the HBO max trash tv shows they produced (and have mercifully cancelled) but the high quality, big budget, high concept drams like GoT, Chernobyl, Watchmen, Westword, Euphoria and now this spinoff I was 100% was going to suck ass because the final season of GoT. No one nails every single aspect of a tv show like this. Not apple, disney, amazon, netflix or even AMC which is a cut above the rest but still doesnt have the budget of HBO shows. Disney has the budget, but i cant watch 20 minute shows. I just cant do it. this isnt budget tv, it's HBO. $20 minutes are for fucking sitcoms.
Anyway, Im so glad HBO is back. I was in a black hole of mediocre to bad tv ever since GoT ended with a whimper and Westworld season 3 somehow managed to suck worse. But with Euphoria, Chernobyl, Watchmen and now Westworld making a shocking comeback with an incredible 4th season, i feel like im back in the golden age of tv when Mad Men, Breaking Bad, GoT and True Detective were on every sunday.
Nico_D
Member
Not trying to be controversial or anything but I found the pilot pretty boring. The characters didn't have much of a personality, the actors were decent/good though - Matt Smith's character is just another GoT evil which we have seen before. But maybe the character will evolve in future episodes but I wouldn't hold my breath. The story was also typical GoT affair.
I'm watching this because my wife wants me to.
I'm watching this because my wife wants me to.
SirKicksalot
Member
Major Hacksaw Ridge vibes in this episode.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Evil?
Lol.
Nico_D
Member
Thanks for opening your thoughts/counter argumenting with a post with zero content but yet still quoting me.
Tieno
Member
Daemon is such a great manbaby, Matt Smith does him well.
The first time they show Rhaenyra in this episode, she has an amazing costume. In general costume design was amazing. Beautiful and fitting.
The armor design of the Velaryons is amazing, it fits so well with their hair and skin color.
This show feels like Dog Breeding: The Show, all this talking about marrying, bloodlines, providing heirs, procreating, and such. lol
The first time they show Rhaenyra in this episode, she has an amazing costume. In general costume design was amazing. Beautiful and fitting.
The armor design of the Velaryons is amazing, it fits so well with their hair and skin color.
This show feels like Dog Breeding: The Show, all this talking about marrying, bloodlines, providing heirs, procreating, and such. lol
March Climber
Member
They're laughing about your 'evil guy' claim because that poster probably watched episodes 2 and 3.
I think the further they flesh out the type of person Daemon is, the more and more people may become sympathetic to his reasoning. People's opinions are already starting to change on him a bit after episode 3.
As long as the character isn't as one note as Joffrey or Ramsay I'll be satisfied.
V1LÆM
Gold Member
i fucking love Matt Smith. so happy he’s getting a lot of recognition! im really enjoying his character in the show but i still think of him as The Doctor cause hes my favourite one. This role as Daemon reminds me of the times The Doctor got really angry/dangerous. At the time when he started in DW i think he was only like 27 but he had such a presence at times that could be terrifying and threatening. Some of my favourite scenes of the 11th Doctor was when he showed his darker side.
i thought he was great in The Crown too but HOTD is arguably his biggest role. As a big Doctor Who fan id say its even bigger than that. He was quite well known in the UK because of Doctor Who but this show has or. probably will make him a household name.
ive not read the books so dont know what happens with Daemon but i hope he doesnt die and Matt gets to stick around for a long time in the show! The latter scenes of Episode 3 were brilliant with him.
i thought he was great in The Crown too but HOTD is arguably his biggest role. As a big Doctor Who fan id say its even bigger than that. He was quite well known in the UK because of Doctor Who but this show has or. probably will make him a household name.
ive not read the books so dont know what happens with Daemon but i hope he doesnt die and Matt gets to stick around for a long time in the show! The latter scenes of Episode 3 were brilliant with him.
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Yeah you didn't imagine that. The show seems to be leaning into the lore that Dragons and their riders share an almost psychic bond. They are also extremely intelligent. Both are alluded to in the books as well as the original show. It's how the dragons always seem to do what their riders need them to do despite not receiving direct commands in High Valyrian.
For example the scene where Aemma Targaryen and her son are being burned Rhaenyra says "Dracarys" and Cyrax immediately knows what she means. He doesn't just breath fire into the air or burn the soldiers. He comes down off the cliff and burns the funeral pyre despite the only command being for firebreath and her not even so much as pointing to the pyre.
Another example is how Caraxes only showed up to Daemon's standoff with Otto after swords were drawn. He wasn't called, but it's as if Caraxes sensed the escalation and the possible danger Daemon was in and came to his aid.
Ammogeddon
Member
That was a great episode, loved the way they contrasted the difference between Daemon and Viserys.
Viserys spends his time worrying about bloodlines etc. and has everything handed to him, like the white hart scene, and he still cannot even competently despatch it.
Daemon on the other hand is so stubborn and incensed at getting support for the war that he’ll sooner “shoot the messenger” and jump head first into a seemingly un-winnable situation, only to competently come out on top.
Viserys spends his time worrying about bloodlines etc. and has everything handed to him, like the white hart scene, and he still cannot even competently despatch it.
Daemon on the other hand is so stubborn and incensed at getting support for the war that he’ll sooner “shoot the messenger” and jump head first into a seemingly un-winnable situation, only to competently come out on top.
Werewolf Jones
Member
It's been three episodes and people are already throwing GoT under the bus for this? Shit is better than S5-8 EASILY but it's about on par with S1-4 for writing quality at least. I'm keen to shit on GoT whenever I can but don't make unrealistic claims. 
It is good but I gotta see the quality remain this way to season end before I outright say it's better than the original.
It is good but I gotta see the quality remain this way to season end before I outright say it's better than the original.
DKehoe
Gold Member
Also how Rhaenyra doesn’t hesitate to get dirty and bloody like Daemon, unlike Viserys
Ulysses 31
Member
Just goes to show how damaging S8 was to the brand that people forgot how good S1-4 actually was.It's been three episodes and people are already throwing GoT under the bus for this? Shit is better than S5-8 EASILY but it's about on par with S1-4 for writing quality at least. I'm keen to shit on GoT whenever I can but don't make unrealistic claims.
It is good but I gotta see the quality remain this way to season end before I outright say it's better than the original.
sol_bad
Member
Episode 3 was ... fine, not as good as episode 2. The character drama didn't do much for me, when they started arguing in front of everyone, that was engaging but the rest was .. fine. The 2 year jump makes it feel like we aren't getting to know these characters, just seeing them in various situations months and years apart. The show tries to imply Viserys is a weak king but it isn't doing anything to show us why he is weak and I don't think him choosing not to engage in the Stepstones is a sign of weakness.
Part of my problem with the 2 year gap involves the war at the end. That battle at the end felt so weird, they had been struggling for 2 years and then Daemon enters his god mode code and carries a white flag to trick them, then they win instantly AND the crab feeder is killed off screen! They won so damn easily it makes you wonder why they struggled for 2 years. I didn't feel their struggle. I think they needed to show this struggle for a couple of episodes and then have a full 3rd episode showing the payoff and win against the crab feeder.
And don't get me started on the CGI, the fire and compositing looked really bad.
Part of my problem with the 2 year gap involves the war at the end. That battle at the end felt so weird, they had been struggling for 2 years and then Daemon enters his god mode code and carries a white flag to trick them, then they win instantly AND the crab feeder is killed off screen! They won so damn easily it makes you wonder why they struggled for 2 years. I didn't feel their struggle. I think they needed to show this struggle for a couple of episodes and then have a full 3rd episode showing the payoff and win against the crab feeder.
And don't get me started on the CGI, the fire and compositing looked really bad.
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Werewolf Jones
Member
Viserys had one rotting finger and in the time skip he lost two fingers when he was indecisive to cut it off. The show isn't beating over you the head like a piece of fiction from the Disney conveyer belt to emphasise how he's a weak king. Chill bruh.
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Tams
Member
I mean, solely judging a show buly it's first episode isn't really fair. It's often the pilot (so a bit rough) and usually needs to set things up. It's why most shows these days launch with two to three episodes.
I think by the second to third episode you can usually get a good sense of where a show is going. Hence why I have little hope for that other show, but lots for this.
sol_bad
Member
Indecisive does not equal weak. Is the whole kingdom in disarray and chaos? No.
So what is he doing wrong?
The show literally explains why they struggled with the crab feeders. The crab feeders would constantly retreat back into their caves, and the only way they could defeat them was if they could lure them out with bait. There was an entire scene where they talk about this. Daemon chose to be that bait, and that is how they won, by luring the crab feeders out.
Tams
Member
The muppet you are arguing with loves The Rings of Power so far.
I think it's safe to say they lack taste, and possibly some basic reasoning capacity.
sol_bad
Member
And with Daemon as the bait the crab feeder decides to send out 200 men instead of having a single archer up top kill him. It makes no logical sense. Did he all of a sudden forget they have a dragon?
The crab feeder did both, he had archers ready from the start, also, he didn't send all 200 men at once. He sends his men out in small groups. Each time, he looks up in the sky searching for dragons before sending out the next group.
sol_bad
Member
My point is, he didn't need to send out any soldiers after the first few were killed, just take Daemon out with an arrow.
Tams
Member
I don't doubt you watched it, but you clearly didn't pay attention. You clearly need everything spelt out to you.
Nor do you apparently even know how archery works.
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HoodWinked
Member
this show is really great, the writing is so layered and subtle. really enjoy watching all the character's motivations and trying to see things from their mindset.
like the scene where Daemon just takes it out on the messenger seems unhinged but the more think about it, makes sense he aligned with Corlys Velaryon likely thinking it would mean a quick victory and glory for himself but after 3 years of fighting they were losing the war. Then you have Viserys being tortured by the decisions he must make and with Rhaenyra. He understands and follows the realm and of tradition but he also wants Rhaenyra's approval.
like the scene where Daemon just takes it out on the messenger seems unhinged but the more think about it, makes sense he aligned with Corlys Velaryon likely thinking it would mean a quick victory and glory for himself but after 3 years of fighting they were losing the war. Then you have Viserys being tortured by the decisions he must make and with Rhaenyra. He understands and follows the realm and of tradition but he also wants Rhaenyra's approval.
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sol_bad
Member
I understand how the scene played out. It doesn't matter how much they show the crab feeder looking at the sky, the fact is, they have a dragon, it's there somewhere even if he can't currently see it in the sky. After Daemon is hit a few times with some arrows he sends out all of his soldiers to surround him, they are completely open to attack and it makes no logical sense, just shoot a few extra arrows while he is laying on the ground and kill Daemon.
Tell me how it makes any sense to have 200 men stand around Daemon when he is injured on the ground.
What A Shame...
Banned
Pretty much.Just goes to show how damaging S8 was to the brand that people forgot how good S1-4 actually was.
This doesn't hold a candle to the early seasons of GoT. Look up any Varys/Littlefinger scene and it's clear that HotD is devoid of this kind of masterful writing. And the writers really need to lay off the time jumps and let us watch the characters develop naturally. Introducing a major plot point and asking us to just "fill in the blanks" feels lazy and rushed.
Man, it feels like I'm shitting on this show.
I really do like it but GoT was in a league of its own.
PaddyOCanager
Member
Yeah, it was dumb from a realistic standpoint. The execution could've been better, but the scene accomplished what it needed to show:
1. Daemon would rather die than accept his brother's help at this point
2. Daemon has now established legitimacy, which spells trouble for both the King and Rhaenyra
3. The Ship Lord's son might actually be a worthy match for Rhaenyra - he rides dragons after all.
I think most people are willing to accept plot contrivances if the overall storytelling is competent and it drives the plot forward in interesting ways. The time jumps are an unfortunate storytelling hurdle that audiences will have to buy into. Now if Daemon continues to have ridiculous plot armor, it will be a problem.
I'm not sure what else the show can do to convince you King Viserys is weak outside of writing him to be a literal buffoon. His incompetence is as explicit as it can get without beating the audience over the head with it.
Show's firing on all cylinders. What a treat. The foreboding and tension ratcheted up again and again as the episode progressed, and fewer and fewer words were spoken. Great climax full of implications going forward. Daemon--selfish, impetuous, shoots the messenger, but what a badass.
sol_bad
Member
Don't get me wrong, I'm still very excited for and looking forward to the next episode.
I agree with you that the scene accomplished what it needed to.
Tams
Member
The crab feeder knew he needed to take out Daemon, that's why he was prepared to send his men out, but not all at once as he knew the dragon would definitely come then. However, he was forced too once the House Velaryon forces attacked.
And Daemon had cover. Again, you clearly don't know even the basics of archery.
I can't believe I have to explain this.
sol_bad
Member
Watch it again, he let his soldiers all out at once before House Velaryon shows up.
*EDIT*
And anyway, even if he unleashed all of his soldiers after House Valeryon showed up, what was stopping House Valeryon from taking a row boat to the crab feeders territory over the last 2-3 years? Apparently they were hard to defeat due to hiding in their caves but all it took for them to come out of their caves was to arrive by row boat during this episode. Why didn't the crab feeders soldiers actually retreat back into the caves to hide again, since that's what they had done for 2-3 years.
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Tams
Member
All it took was their most valuable and important person going on what seemed liked a suicide mission to entice them out, and even then it took a while. And the thing that drove said person to eventually do it was the threat of being shown up by needing help and therefore looking weak (which would have been against Daemon's entire reason for being there). If you can't see why someone wouldn't want to put themselves in that position, then I'm afraid your brain is faulty.
I'm not going to bother trying to reason with you anymore as you sing praises for The Rings of Power, yet search for any fault you can find with this.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Rewatching the latest ep. So good.
A gripe: though they seem to be making far more effort towards their props and wardrobe this time around, I wish they would go all-in on the famous swords. In GoT the dazzling Dawn was just a plain-ass sword with a rudimentary sun on it. Dark Sister here looks exotic and hass Targ trappings, but is still missing its signature color and features.
On the other hand, they obviously put a lot of thought and effort in bringing the Crabfeeder to life. Meanwhile, Euron in GoT was literally just some dude. Didn't even have the right color or length of hair. lol
As I was watching the scene I thought, finally, we get to see a Targaryen kicking ass on-screen. I mean, truly knuckling up. After all these years of only hearing or reading about their many champions.
** yes I know Daemon fought in the tourney, but he wasn't impressive
A gripe: though they seem to be making far more effort towards their props and wardrobe this time around, I wish they would go all-in on the famous swords. In GoT the dazzling Dawn was just a plain-ass sword with a rudimentary sun on it. Dark Sister here looks exotic and hass Targ trappings, but is still missing its signature color and features.
On the other hand, they obviously put a lot of thought and effort in bringing the Crabfeeder to life. Meanwhile, Euron in GoT was literally just some dude. Didn't even have the right color or length of hair. lol
As I was watching the scene I thought, finally, we get to see a Targaryen kicking ass on-screen. I mean, truly knuckling up. After all these years of only hearing or reading about their many champions.
** yes I know Daemon fought in the tourney, but he wasn't impressive
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
My favorite episode by far so far. Viserys, Rhaenyra, and Daemon continue to carry the show on their back. I am FEASTING on crow at this point because as a book fan I openly questioned Matt Smith as Daemon because I did not think he could pull off the edge and the ego that Daemon's character demanded yet he has not only met that expectation but he has exceeded it. He has breathed a life into Daemon that I did not expect. He is the egotistically driven shitbag that he is in the books, but Smith has managed to give him a relatable side that he never had in the books. Same for Milly Alcock. She has given Rhaenyra a grit and an edge that was never shown in the books. Then when you get to Viserys Paddy Considine has been the best casting choice of the show so far in my opinion. He perfectly encapsulates the "good man" that Viserys is while also showing how bad he is as a king. He has taken what could have been a grey blob of a character and made him not only relatable, but sympathetic at the same time. The guy deserves an award for what he has done.
Also going off of social media responses and places like Gaf the episode has shown me just how badly people understand how archery works in a medieval setting and how people also seem to be dead fucking set on overthinking a fictional setting to the point of ridiculousness just so that they can pretend to be smarter than the average bear. It reminds me of when people bitch and moan anytime "plot armor" comes into play.
Of course the main character didn't get clipped. Of course they didn't die right there. BECAUSE IF THEY DID THE STORY WOULD SUCK AND IT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PROGRESS.
Also going off of social media responses and places like Gaf the episode has shown me just how badly people understand how archery works in a medieval setting and how people also seem to be dead fucking set on overthinking a fictional setting to the point of ridiculousness just so that they can pretend to be smarter than the average bear. It reminds me of when people bitch and moan anytime "plot armor" comes into play.
Of course the main character didn't get clipped. Of course they didn't die right there. BECAUSE IF THEY DID THE STORY WOULD SUCK AND IT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PROGRESS.
Tams
Member
Yes, I'm loving the acting.
Thinking about it, as someone else put, Matt Smith has shown the potential for this performance before in Doctor Who, but only in small bits/glimmers. This and Last Night in Soho have really shown how he's matured and had his talent brought out.
Milly Alcock is new, so this is quite a remarkable entrance into the scene.
Paddy Considine has been quietly plugging away in the indie space. Didn't expect him in something mainstream, but I'm not surprised he's done so well.
As for the medieval archery, it's the same level of audience understanding of handguns. People think they are like modern rifles (and many think they always hit, which is nonsense too). That firearms took over from archery, despite being wildly inaccurate for centuries says it all really.
I find it interesting how they depicted Rhaenyra coming back after her little joyride, all covered in blood, with her bodyguard dragging the boar. I think the intent was to make her seem like a badass, but she did THE EXACT SAME THING as Viserys. She didn't hunt that boar, it just popped up and charged her. She didn't even really kill it, Cole ran it through with his sword and she just stabbed it in its death throes. I'm not sure what the message was here, that she is dynamic and combative while Viserys is reluctant and inoffensive? It was an odd scene, I would have thought her killing the White Stag would have made for a better example of her "being the next in line". She moans that no one listens to her, yet she also doesn't engage in the job of being a ruler! Viserys laid it out for her very well; marry someone strong, bolster your supporters, be prepared to defend your crown. EXCELLENT advice, I hope she takes it to heart.
The Step stones was always gonna be a hard thing to depict, no matter the budget. As character growth for Daemon it works well I suppose. I'm kinda surprised they put in Laenor instead of Rhaenys on the dragon though.
The Step stones was always gonna be a hard thing to depict, no matter the budget. As character growth for Daemon it works well I suppose. I'm kinda surprised they put in Laenor instead of Rhaenys on the dragon though.
PaddyOCanager
Member
I think maybe we are just seeing baby steps in her development. People are starting to see her differently, that's the message I got from the scene. Seeing your princess come back to camp covered in blood and dragging a boar is a huge paradigm shift. I don't think how the boar died was important, and killing the White Stag is way too on the nose for this show.
Her character arc so far is entirely believable and being attacked by a boar is the kind of life event that will really change a person - especially someone young as her. I wouldn't be surprised if the boar was a catalyst for her to do the very things you are criticizing her for not doing. If the writers don't use this event to push her growth forward in the next episode, then I agree it's a totally wasted scene.
Good points, if this is what gets her off her butt and into action to take active control of her life then it served a purpose.
I had assumed there was no White Hart, it was all just "laying the story" to butter up to the king. That they then caught another hart seems a bit odd, maybe that was more of Otto (or Jayson Lannister) wanting to give the king something. Maybe no one else HAD seen a White Hart, and it just appeared to Rhaenyra (but we the viewer had to hear about it first).
I would have thought Rhaenrya would have realized the value of killing the White Hart herself (though I question her ability to do so with no weapons other than a guy with a sword) as a symbol of her right to rule. Instead she lets it go, an action her father would have done (and Daemon would not) and I'm not sure she really sees any difference in herself after the boar (though the "smallfolk" might). So I suspect the convo with the King would have sufficed as motivation. I was more interested in her having "alone time" with Cole but that is over at the book spoiler thread should anyone be curious about that.
I really dug that tent that looked like a castle. I wonder how much of that camp was practical.
Tams
Member
The sword strike didn't kill it, it also killed her so she had to stab it. It wasn't presented to her. Not that will ever be known to the other characters. The point is that it shocks/impresses the others, especially as she's a woman. That's she's prepared to do things herself and isn't afraid of getting her hands dirty and being violent. And that impresses people in that world (just as it often does even in ours in modern times). It's why Daemon will also get more respect and legitimacy for throne for his actions against the Crab Feeder.
Killing the white hart would just have been stupid. The point of it was that it was a sign that she was the chosen one, and to the viewers her not killing it shows that she has benevolence and isn't a complete psychopath. In terms of the superstitions in that world, it could also be a sign that 'higher powers' will thank/reward her for her respect of the hart.
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Tams
Member
I think this comment belies that you don't really understand where the story is going, nor the real history the series is based on.
That tent isn't supposed to be 'practical'. Viserys was never meant to hunt the hart; it was almost meant to be presented to him to slay. It's all a show of power and wealth, and keeping the nobles content.
Here's an extreme example from real history:
