He tried THREE times to name a son Joffrey till he got one in. The thirst was real
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Bragr
Banned
Great episode, it was a lot, I almost feel I have to rewatch it to get used to everyone and all the things that happened.
Olivia Cooke as the "new" queen absolutely nailed it. She stole the show, perfect casting.
I hope they don't focus too much on the kids, I don't wanna see some cringe child acting.
Are there gonna be any new major time jumps soon? I hope we get to stick with these actors a bit.
Olivia Cooke as the "new" queen absolutely nailed it. She stole the show, perfect casting.
I hope they don't focus too much on the kids, I don't wanna see some cringe child acting.
Are there gonna be any new major time jumps soon? I hope we get to stick with these actors a bit.
Still about 150+ years to go. The show timeline is a little squishy from the book but we are roughly 120-125 AC and the overthrow of the Mad King/Dany is born in 284 AC
I'm gonna need you to take a seat, there is some bad news coming....
There will be a lot with the kids, the showrunners confirm that if you watch the little end ep recap. Some will likely age up a bit, though I think Aegon (the eldest son of Viserys/Alicent) will stay the same actor. The rest I suspect will be replaced or allowed to naturally age between seasons (do we know if this show is officially renewed/starting to film S2?)
Elysion
Banned
There’s another time jump after the next episode. By then the kids will be older, and will all be played by different actors. The current adult characters will remain however.
Bragr
Banned
Jesus, is every season gonna be like this? is the book jumping like this too, with this frequency?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I think after the next jump, it will maintain in that timeline for a while.
Elysion
Banned
Nah, the next few seasons shouldn’t span more than a few years. That’s when the real story happens; this first season is basically just a giant prologue.
Honestly, I’m starting to wonder if it might have been better if they’d opened the show with this episode, instead of starting so far in the past. To make a comparison, imagine if GoT had started fifteen years earlier in the timeline, shortly after Robert had become king. We would’ve seen the Stark children growing up, Ned and Robert fighting in the Greyjoy Rebellion, Cersei starting to cuckold Robert with Jaime, the relationship between Stannis and Robert, Jon Arryn as Hand of the King, and how he first discovered the incest etc. All of this would’ve been cool to see, but also totally unnecessary.
GoT started right as things got interesting, and HotD should’ve done the same. We didn’t really need to see what happened in episodes 1-5. If they’d started with episode 6, we would’ve had the older actresses for Rhaenyra and Alicent from the very beginning, and their children would’ve only needed to change actors once.
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Melon Husk
Member
Antinatalism in modern media is outa control!
newtypepilot
Member
man, Ser One Knight Stand Cole is like this tier 3 sub and mod for some e-girl's stream who gets rejected by said e-girl and now he's been butthurt about it ever since.
V1LÆM
Gold Member
i've obviously not been paying attention because i was confused why she had all these black haired kids. thought they were cole's but they are that other guys? i don't remember who he is. is he meant to be the dude that carried rhaenyra out the hall in the last episode? why is she fucking him?
i'm gonna go need to read episode summaries lol.
also don't like the new actress for rhaenyra at all. olivia cooke is great though.
i'm gonna go need to read episode summaries lol.
also don't like the new actress for rhaenyra at all. olivia cooke is great though.
I'm curious about that as well. Though constant flashbacks from a buncha white haired ladies with kids to OTHER white haired ladies with kids might be a bit much
Jhaeherys long, relatively uneventful rule followed by Viserys long, relatively uneventful (so far) rule make for some quite time to build the characters. Once the bodies start stacking I could see a repetitive pattern of "who ever is featured in the flashback is the one who is gonna die" routine.I think that in the long run, looking back, this will all work out. If they really do 3 seasons of this era, those first 5 really will just be a prologue.
I'm not feeling it. I want to, but I just kinda don't.
It feels very petty politicking, and I am not sure I care who sits the throne. Again this happens a lot in prequels. The dragon bits are just there for fans, they don't contribute much besides budget.
I will prop continue watching just because.
It feels very petty politicking, and I am not sure I care who sits the throne. Again this happens a lot in prequels. The dragon bits are just there for fans, they don't contribute much besides budget.
I will prop continue watching just because.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Elysion
Banned
GoT didn’t need any flashbacks, so I don’t see why HotD would. We learned the characters’ backstories in GoT entirely through dialogue; HotD could’ve done the same. There were never any flashbacks to Robert’s Rebellion for example, yet GoT still managed to tell us everything we needed to know.
In the case of HotD, all we really need to know is that Rhaenyra and Alicent are rivals, that Viserys is right in the middle trying to please everyone, that Daemon is a bad-boy, that Cole hates Rhaenyra, and that the latter’s children are bastards. How this state of affairs came to be could’ve been explained naturally throughout the story; no need for flashbacks.
If this was a novel, that's probably how GRRM would have wrote it. But as "a history* om personally glad they are sticking to the events in roughly chronological order. They'd have to do a lot more narrative heavy lifting to feed us that info. It took grrm YEARS to weave in that layered backstory just right for the books.
Kacho
Gold Member
I’m in the same boat. The time jumps make the show hard to follow at times. There’s a lot of yadda yadda yadda between episodes.
I didn’t read the book so I hope what others are saying is true. If the show starts covering a smaller period of time it will be better off for it IMO.
It's a tough call. If they just started with the Dance of the Dragons then we'd probably have complaints of "they are just killing off people we don't know". But as it is, we can feel for Laena, sorta kinda feel for Rhaenyra when Harwin dies, and the immense weight of Viserys passing looms over everyone. This show COULD have been very similar to GoT with the Velaryon "kids" (Jace, Luc, and little Joffrey, Daemons girls, plus some others perhaps) or I suppose Aegon, Aemon, Helaena (and Dareon if he is in there somewhere) as the focus, but the multi-generational "sins of the parent" is really the focus of the show.
They really seem to be trying to differentiate HotD from GoT as much as possible, even though the base story and a lot of the characterization is kinda similar. Some of this I like, some not as much (I miss the sexposition but I think over time we will see more "GoTisms" creep in as the scheming and plotting take the forefront as I can't imagine they have the budget for even half of the battles to come.
They really seem to be trying to differentiate HotD from GoT as much as possible, even though the base story and a lot of the characterization is kinda similar. Some of this I like, some not as much (I miss the sexposition
but I think over time we will see more "GoTisms" creep in as the scheming and plotting take the forefront as I can't imagine they have the budget for even half of the battles to come.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
The only real thing that wasn’t laid out in the last episode was who the father of the princess kids for the first 5 minutes. They did not establish how or why they were interested in each other.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Because Rhaenyra likes to fuck, and her husband gay.
Yeah, they have been name dropping or showing little glimpses of Harwin for weeks but the desexualization of young Rhaenyra makes it odd that she suddenly seems to hopping on any random D. That he physically is kinda the opposite of Daemon or even Cole is even more jarring.
But this rando dude in the room holding the baby with 2 little boys that look just like him.....don't think the show thought they were being subtle
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Well she liked her guard and they showed them develop a relationship prior to copulation. This guy was just there and sired 3 kids.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He was the one that rescued her from the melee at the feast, whilr Ser Emotions who raised a ruckus putting her in danger (when he was supposed to be her guardian) was making mashed potatoes with her soon to be husband's lover.
So, she probably got a fondness for him, and knew she had to kick splatterhouse to the curb.
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AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Didn’t know that was him that rescued her.
PaddyOCanager
Member
Also, wasn't he the gold cloak who met her in the street when she had her night out with Daemon?
Banjo64
cumsessed
Only issue I have is that I thought the King was on the verge of death when he was being leached after cutting himself on the chair, then I thought he was on death’s door during episode 5 when he was feeble as shit and falling all over the place - THEN HE SURVIVED A 10 YEAR TIME JUMP!?
We know who will sit on the throne after season 10 of this shit - All hail King Viserys.
Hah hah hah, you are right. That would be a great GRRM level joke.
I think the intent of making him seem physically ill (but mentally more of an amicable diplomat) was A. to differentiate his book "party persona" from Robert Baratheon a bit and to explain why he is allowing Rhaenyra as heir and Alicent as Queen to bicker so much and for so long. He is now too old and feeble from whatever wasting disease he is supposed to have to realize the war that's about to happen and resolve it decisively, either by changing heirs to Aegon and placating Rhaenyra in some other fashion or finding gainful employment for his own sons so Rhaenyra won't hunt them down. That there are like SEVEN claimants to the throne (three each from Rhaenyra and Alicent, then Daemon), even discounting the women, means big problems if some of these boys aren't packed off to Old Town to be Maesters (much like the actual legit heir to Jaehaerys, his last surviving son), sent to be Septons, off to the Wall, or married and settled in somewhat distant lands from King's Landing. Viserys can't make the hard choice, now he is too weak and Alicent just trods all over him.
But Rhaenrya has sabotagued herself with her infidelity. Despite coming from her as Princess and Heir Apparent, the illegitimacy of the boys could be an issue. Plus rising sea strife will drain to coffers of the Velaryons, her primary backers. Alicent has the home court advantage, she is stacking the deck with her supporters, and she can call on a lot of folks the Targaryens haven't spent a lot of time wooing or Daemon has actively made enemies of (like the Vale).
That Alicent feels confident enough to, for now, reject Rhaenyras' offer of wedding Helaena to Jace speaks VOLUMES because that one marriage would solve almost everything.....if you had any respect for Jace. Helaena as Queen Regent could protect her brothers. I think by having her be a science nerd they are trying to cast her as not a forceful personality, so Alicent may not think she could hold her own against Jace. Viserys SHOULD force this marriage AT ALL COSTS, because the stability of the realm (not to mention the lives of half of his grandkids) depends on it. But his ailments keep him from doing so.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Right, near Gulltown, I completely forgot.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Lady Jane
Banned
Getting tired of scenes not making any sense at all.
Laena killing herself with her pregnant child? Bullshit. No mother would ever do that.
And what on Earth is going on with Rhaenyra and Laenor? Didn't they have a deal where they would each do their duty and then be romantically done with each other? What happened with that? You're going to tell me that a fit and young man like Laenor couldn't get it up for Milly Alcock's Rhaenyra? C'mon. And let’s discuss her new lover. Young Rhaenyra didn't strike me as an idiot but I guess I'm wrong because dear lord. So she has kids with yet another guard and she keeps him around right after her last lover went full simp? All while he acts like a father figure to these kids in public! It's like they want to be caught. And she does all of this knowing full well that her children were always going to be challenged for the throne. Why risk that? Rhaenyra has put herself in an impossible spot and it's all her doing. I don't know how anyone can support her at this point.
I understand that they're likely following the plot points that GRRM wrote (I haven't read that book but I will after this season is done) but they are doing an awful job of execution. There are no explanations or reasoning behind their decisions. Basically what I learned in this episode is that Laena is an awful mother and Ryaenyra is simply a whore. I don't think I'm supposed to be thinking that but the writing begs to differ.
Laena killing herself with her pregnant child? Bullshit. No mother would ever do that.
And what on Earth is going on with Rhaenyra and Laenor? Didn't they have a deal where they would each do their duty and then be romantically done with each other? What happened with that? You're going to tell me that a fit and young man like Laenor couldn't get it up for Milly Alcock's Rhaenyra? C'mon. And let’s discuss her new lover. Young Rhaenyra didn't strike me as an idiot but I guess I'm wrong because dear lord. So she has kids with yet another guard and she keeps him around right after her last lover went full simp? All while he acts like a father figure to these kids in public! It's like they want to be caught. And she does all of this knowing full well that her children were always going to be challenged for the throne. Why risk that? Rhaenyra has put herself in an impossible spot and it's all her doing. I don't know how anyone can support her at this point.
I understand that they're likely following the plot points that GRRM wrote (I haven't read that book but I will after this season is done) but they are doing an awful job of execution. There are no explanations or reasoning behind their decisions. Basically what I learned in this episode is that Laena is an awful mother and Ryaenyra is simply a whore. I don't think I'm supposed to be thinking that but the writing begs to differ.
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I suspect we will learn that she DID undergo the c-section, the baby was dead already, and rather than die abed herself she went out to the dragon.
Can't disagree with any of this, though I'm more tolerant of it than you.
I can say that in the book there are subtleties to these actions that do a far better job of explaining it logically that the show runners are losing with their version of the circumstances and the compressed timeline. Some of this is inevitable with the translation to screen but some of it is just dodgy writing/editing for sure.
sol_bad
Member
I'll be honest, I feel so fucking disconnected to all the characters and everything that is happening.
Why did Raenyra and Criston stopped talking? Why is Criston with the queen? Why is Alicent such a cunt now?
Why is Reanyra fucking this other Strong guy (I didn't realise he was the Kings Hands son until half way through the episode)? How did they meet? When did they meet? Are they in love? Am I meant to care about him after just 10 minutes of screen time?
Why is Daemon estranged from the rest of the family? He was at the fucking wedding. Why didn't he pursue Raenyra? Why did he marry Laena? Am I meant to care about Laena, I barely know her. Why is Laena with Daemon? What was the point of Daemons old whore? What was the point of the Stepstones battled? It hasn't amounted to anything
Am I meant to care about any of the Strongs? They have had barely any screen time!
I say again these time jumps are killing the show for me
Why did Raenyra and Criston stopped talking? Why is Criston with the queen? Why is Alicent such a cunt now?
Why is Reanyra fucking this other Strong guy (I didn't realise he was the Kings Hands son until half way through the episode)? How did they meet? When did they meet? Are they in love? Am I meant to care about him after just 10 minutes of screen time?
Why is Daemon estranged from the rest of the family? He was at the fucking wedding. Why didn't he pursue Raenyra? Why did he marry Laena? Am I meant to care about Laena, I barely know her. Why is Laena with Daemon? What was the point of Daemons old whore? What was the point of the Stepstones battled? It hasn't amounted to anything
Am I meant to care about any of the Strongs? They have had barely any screen time!
I say again these time jumps are killing the show for me
mxbison
Member
I'm honestly not that impressed. Feel like people are overrating it because the shitty last seasons of GoT lowered expectations so much.
It's decent and I'll keep watching but nowhere near peak GoT. No interesting side stories and the main plot isn't that exciting either. Don't really care about any of the characters much. Gore feels forced just like the nudity. Episode 1 has an orgy scene just because and then a few episodes later we get a romantic comedy style sex scene.
Wedding scene summed it up pretty well where they tried to make it epic and shocking in best GoT tradition but it wasn't in the slightest.
It's decent and I'll keep watching but nowhere near peak GoT. No interesting side stories and the main plot isn't that exciting either. Don't really care about any of the characters much. Gore feels forced just like the nudity. Episode 1 has an orgy scene just because and then a few episodes later we get a romantic comedy style sex scene.
Wedding scene summed it up pretty well where they tried to make it epic and shocking in best GoT tradition but it wasn't in the slightest.
Ser Cole, in order to reconcile sleeping with Rhaenyra with his vows, give her an ultimatim of "Come with me and flee to Essos so we can be together". She rejects him on that ship so he goes into a spiral of self-loathing and anger towards her. Then Joffrey rubbing the secret in his face, while still being able to stay with Laenor, drove him to murder. He then was going to commit suicide (not sure if that is a sin under the Seven) but Alicent stopped him and presumably gave him new purpose.
It's hinted that Harwin was just "right place, right time" initially, though over the decade presumably there is a strong affection between them as she keeps banging him and he has pretty free reign in her household. They show Harwin several times in quick shots, so he doesn't quite come out of nowhere. There is also the possibility that Rhaenyra sleeps with the Hands son as payback for her dad sleeping with HIS hands daughter (alicent). Hell, Larys Strong (the clubfoot guy) could have been scheming from the get go and placed Harwin in proximity to Rhaenyra hoping this very thing would happen since he knew of her and Laenors proclivities.
This gets pretty short shrift, to be sure. The book lays this out, but within the show Daemon, who did kinda flirt with Laena at the pre-wedding feast, hit it off at some point, get hitched, and go to Pentos for whatever reason. One could argue that he was getting as close to Rhaenyra as possible or taking his best bet for money (Laena is rich) and getting as FAR AWAY from Rhaenyra as possible, leaving the country.
Lyonel Strong has been there from the start in the council, I believe.
We are through the worst of it, almost completely done with them (I would guess). Next season(s) shouldn't require any unless they run it well past the Dance of the Dragons storyline.
negator2vc
Member
Time jumps are seriously hurting the show, the characters and their actions.
The worst was at the end of episode 5 where consequences are left to the viewer's imagination due to the big time jump.
I can never understand WHY they couldn't start at episode 6 time and use flashbacks to show only the most important past events.
Also the scene at the small council with Rhaenyra & Alicent was weird since Alicent practically said to Rhaenyra they will think of her proposal despite the fact that the king was enthusiastic about it. The public defiance just felt wrong considering how the show until that point portrayed women.
Also why were both of them at a council meeting? Wasn't the council only for the king and his advisors?
The worst was at the end of episode 5 where consequences are left to the viewer's imagination due to the big time jump.
I can never understand WHY they couldn't start at episode 6 time and use flashbacks to show only the most important past events.
Also the scene at the small council with Rhaenyra & Alicent was weird since Alicent practically said to Rhaenyra they will think of her proposal despite the fact that the king was enthusiastic about it. The public defiance just felt wrong considering how the show until that point portrayed women.
Also why were both of them at a council meeting? Wasn't the council only for the king and his advisors?
Werewolf Jones
Member
The amount of people complaining about this show will be pulling wowie zowie soyfaces when the dragon battles happen. You don't like pacing and/or character development.
balls of snow
Member
Great episode. Even the wife dug it since it pretty much devolved into a cat fight between the queen and princess.
balls of snow
Member
Per her agreement on marrying Laenor last ep, she is allowed her paramour and he is allowed his. Girl need the d after all and we know she likes knights.
Besides that, the way Laenor handed the baby to Ser Hawrin and fucked off was pretty clear who was the father.
have you been playing with your phone while watching this?
All of this makes sense if you put a little bit of attention.
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sol_bad
Member
No, I never touch my phone while watching shows. Like I said, the time jumps are killing my connection to the story and characters. Everything is happening and progressing off screen. Then we are shown an hour of these characters lives and are scrambling to figure out what has happened in that 10 year gap and why things are the way they are.
We are meant to care about characters that are introduced and killed in a single episode. Or characters that have been there since episode 1 but have had barely any screen time.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This show has been incredible so far.
Feels like I'm back in the Season 1, 2 era quality of the Game of Thrones TV show.
Feels like I'm back in the Season 1, 2 era quality of the Game of Thrones TV show.
BaneIsPain
Member
In my opinion, rhaenyra is groomed to take over the throne. She was there during her younger days, even as a cupbearer. Meanwhile,viserys is frailed, and Alicent is there to support him or act as an advisor, I guess. It is not a new tradition because one of the queens of Maegor is also in the council. About the defiance, who can stop the queen? Only viserys can.
I think it was nice to give background on the family's cracks since the Old king's days. The evolution of each character is a nice touch.
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