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[johnsmith]

fucking turn 1 double young priestess

My favorite zoo opening. If they can't deal with it right away it snow balls big time.

 

[Card Boy]

I should make a deck that has

2 young priestess
2 blood imps
2 Master Swordsmiths
1 Gruul

just for the lols.

 

[I'm an expert]

That's nice. And it's supposed to prove what exactly?
I never said it's not reasonable. I said constructed play up to a certain point is pay-to-win, grind-to-win or both - player's choice - which is exactly the way I expect a F2P game to shit on any semblance of fair competition. At $0 that's reasonable. Just a bit disappointing.

I never said that constructed has no randomness, so you are arguing against a strawman. Anyway, you are wrong; arena only has randomness and skill, whereas constructed has randomness, skill, pay-to-win and grind-to-win. Only one of these is fair competition.

Actually, you're wrong, but if you want to blame the loss on me spending more time on gaf, you can. =p

 

[Ashodin]

New Zoo just took me from Rank 17 to Rank 12. AW#ESOME

 

[Professor Lich]

They've said that this won't be implemented, because they want the arena to feel "even".It's a bullshit argument though since legendary cardbacks and golden heroes (?) carry over.

Ah well, it's what ever I suppose.

 

[OJdaKiller]

The HS gods smiled upon me yesterday. Hadn't play in a while, had 3 quests built up and opened two packs I bought with gold..Got

-Brawl
-Captain Greenskin

Then finished the last one today and got:

-Lord Jaraxxus


I know CG sucks, but I'll take the 400 dust..

 

[zoukka]

Man haven't played arena in days and yesterday I had several picks with all three cards being absolute non-playable. Don't remember getting those this often ever before... it kinda bugs me out that Blizz can adjust the arena picks as they please because nobody knows the logic behind it.

We need an Arena hero mode where you can pick all the class specific cards and mix them!

 

[bjaelke]

You must have missed this recent post by their community managers:

I did miss it, yes, but still doesn't say much. I'm talking about what they have left to reveal before they release the first wing - unless they plan to announce each Class Challenge the same way.

 

[Anustart]

Oh nice, rogues have a million 0-2 mana spells :/

 

[Ashodin]

Now almost rank 10. Sick

 

[Anustart]

Made it to 15 before bed. Highest I've been. Had a terrible streak earlier where I went from
16 to 19 with no wins in between.

My deck can't take me much further I'm sure. Without spending money the grind is endless to try and even get a single legendary. And I'm up against people with numerous.

Miracle rogues are popping up and I've yet to beat one. Came close, but couldn't kill his second auctioneer in one turn, then came out about 8 0-2 mana spells in a single turn. Best 0 mana card I have access to is a wisp.

 

[Violet_0]

I need a deck that is really good against Zoo and Miracle Rogue and also Handlock and Druid. Was close to rank 4 but I really can't take the endless parade of Zoo and Miracle decks anymore, I'm done with ranked this season. I'm nearly having a stroke every time the announcer says Gul'dan or Valeera

 

[Ikkarus]

I need a deck that is really good against Zoo and Miracle Rogue and also Handlock and Druid. Was close to rank 4 but I really can't take the endless parade of Zoo and Miracle decks anymore, I'm done with ranked this season. I'm nearly getting a stroke every time the announcer says Gul'dan or Valeera

Freeze Mage is pretty viable against Zoo, Miracle and Handlock.

 

[CradleOfMan]

If you want all the cards available to you for free right away without spending real money or lots of time go play something else. This game is obviously not for you.

Personally I hit legend after 2 months of playing spending minimal amounts. I probably spent about $6 on a couple of arena runs when I hit legend, and none of those runs made any difference in being able to craft my zoo deck, since that's composed of just commons and rares.

100% ^^^. Same time, same amount spent and same attitude as this. Anything worthwhile has to have some difficulty in achieving it. I don't play this anymore than I have time for any other game and a full time job. I feel Blizzard have done really well in their F2P model with the speed at which you can accumulate cards without spending. Or spend if you want to speed things up. Just the right amount of allure. I would not have done any better any faster by spending money. In fact, I'll probably spend money on the expansion just because I want to support them for making a good game.

IMHO those complaining about F2P and/or no-lifers have to look at their instant gratification desires or accept their skill levels aren't better than casual.

 

[I'm an expert]

As Reynad once said to a casual: "I may get salty sometimes, but you're the one stuck at rank 15 and blaming it on rng."

 

[Minsc]

It's really simple, P2W games offer advantages to those who pay, which can't be obtained any other way. If someone who hasn't paid anything can win as often in ranked as someone who is paying $1,000s on cards, I don't really see how it is P2W.

Maybe some people aren't familiar with P2W games, I'd suggest you go and try playing Kings and Legends, a F2P CCG that *is* P2W (or just take a look and see there are cards, *single cards*, you need to spend $200+ to obtain, and the more you spend the higher the stats on your copy of said card is - someone who spends less on the card gets the same but card with lower stats). Or any of the 1,000 other P2W titles.

"But you have to spend 1,000s of hours to get a comparable collection to those who spend $1,000s"... but you don't need to get a comparable collection (aka complete set) to win. Plenty of netdecks win you right in legendary rank with minimal investment in to the game dust-wise. In fact, free decks that cost ~1,500 dust can consistently beat decks that cost ~50,000 dust.

In a P2W game, there'd be advantages to the people who paid money that cannot be matched by those who didn't. This is not the case in Hearthstone... there is nothing you can buy that gives you any sort of advantage over someone who didn't pay any money. By Blizzard's own account, wasn't something like over 50% of the top-ranked players completely F2P (spent no money)?

 

[IceMarker]

The only time I feel like the game is pay-to-win is when I'm in a long game where myself and my opponent are both topdecking for the rest of the game and his last 3 cards are legendaries while I have had none in my whole deck the whole time due to my lack of legendaries in my collection. Then again, that's luck in booster packs. "At least I have epics."

 

[I'm an expert]

The only time I feel like the game is pay-to-win is when I'm in a long game where myself and my opponent are both topdecking for the rest of the game and his last 3 cards are legendaries while I have had none in my whole deck the whole time due to my lack of legendaries in my collection. Then again, that's luck in booster packs. "At least I have epics."

That happens to everyone though. I can run my 10 legendary control war deck and still lose to the same thing. The question is did you play your deck properly up until that point? Did you waste your removal on dumb shit? Also what was your win condition in the first place? If your win condition doesn't even exist anymore then your deck just lost period, nothing to do with legendaries coming at you.

Even if both of you were drawing "fair" cards and some how having a back and forth top deck match, eventually someone is going to lose because the other guy just drew the right card. That could be a frostbolt, it could be a Rag.

 

[CradleOfMan]

That happens to everyone though. I can run my 10 legendary control war deck and still lose to the same thing. The question is did you play your deck properly up until that point? Did you waste your removal on dumb shit? Also what was your win condition in the first place? If your win condition doesn't even exist anymore then your deck just lost period, nothing to do with legendaries coming at you.

Even if both of you were drawing "fair" cards and some how having a back and forth top deck match, eventually someone is going to lose because the other guy just drew the right card. That could be a frostbolt, it could be a Rag.

That tension or suspense of what's coming next adds greatly to the fun. No uncertainty and you're playing chess. Too much and you're rolling dice. CCG's need to strike the balance. And have interesting mechanics. And a workable interface. And have an economic model to pay the developers. I think Blizzard are doing a good job. Not perfect mind you.

 

[J0dy77]

It's really simple, P2W games offer advantages to those who pay, which can't be obtained any other way. If someone who hasn't paid anything can win as often in ranked as someone who is paying $1,000s on cards, I don't really see how it is P2W.

Maybe some people aren't familiar with P2W games, I'd suggest you go and try playing Kings and Legends, a F2P CCG that *is* P2W (or just take a look and see there are cards, *single cards*, you need to spend $200+ to obtain, and the more you spend the higher the stats on your copy of said card is - someone who spends less on the card gets the same but card with lower stats). Or any of the 1,000 other P2W titles.

"But you have to spend 1,000s of hours to get a comparable collection to those who spend $1,000s"... but you don't need to get a comparable collection (aka complete set) to win. Plenty of netdecks win you right in legendary rank with minimal investment in to the game dust-wise. In fact, free decks that cost ~1,500 dust can consistently beat decks that cost ~50,000 dust.

In a P2W game, there'd be advantages to the people who paid money that cannot be matched by those who didn't. This is not the case in Hearthstone... there is nothing you can buy that gives you any sort of advantage over someone who didn't pay any money. By Blizzard's own account, wasn't something like over 50% of the top-ranked players completely F2P (spent no money)?

Well said. I've seen it so many times in this thread and other places where a new player runs into a little difficulty and can't progress and it immediately becomes a P2W game. Players with a decent collection and stronger legendaries will have some advantage at first but it doesn't require a mount of cash or time to catch up to that advantage.

 

[I'm an expert]

Seriously. It's the same nonsense with a game like WoW when someone hits max level and cries about how everyone has epix. Well no shit, you're going to have to raid and pvp to be able to compete, just like everyone else did.

I can see welfare legendaries on the horizon.

 

[Haly]

So long as they want to keep Hearthstone "casualized", welfare Legendaries will be a given. I highly doubt they're going to do set rotations, especially at the rate at which cards come out, meaning every new player will have a steeper slope to climb than the last.

 

[Aylinato]

Welfare legendaries?! What are you guys talking about

 

[ZealousD]

Ole Murk Eye is already a welfare legendary, though.

 

[Minsc]

I still don't have Murk Eye, and I have a fairly complete set of cards (missing mainly just legendaries)... been to lazy to figure out which murlocs I'm missing to get him.

Welfare legendaries?! What are you guys talking about

Naxx? They're essentially giving every player easy access to 5 legendaries with it. Certainly better odds of getting them than via packs anyway.

 

[I'm an expert]

Wait, is the entire Naxx set going to be released through the pve garbage? I thought it was just a one/two card reward at the end of each wing.

 

[ViviOggi]

Wait, is the entire Naxx set going to be released through the pve garbage? I thought it was just a one/two card reward at the end of each wing.

Pretty sure all cards are obtained via PvE.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Wait, is the entire Naxx set going to be released through the pve garbage? I thought it was just a one/two card reward at the end of each wing.

Don't knock it 'till you try it!

 

[I'm an expert]

Pretty sure all cards are obtained via PvE.

Oh wow.. well then there ya go. Welfare expansion. If people don't like running against shit like zoo now wait till everyone is playing the same flavor of the month deathrattle deck.

Don't knock it 'till you try it!

It's the equivalent of unlocking characters in a fighting game through arcade mode... or unlocking them in this game lol.. I don't want to play ai in a pvp game.

 

[JesseZao]

It's the equivalent of unlocking characters in a fighting game through arcade mode... or unlocking them in this game lol.. I don't want to play ai in a pvp game.

Except it's not just playing ai in practice mode. Think of it as a challenge mode. It'll be a more polished and fleshed out puzzle mode than Magic:FotP's.

 

[I'm an expert]

I'm a big fan of DotP but I breeze through all of the campaigns/puzzles pretty quickly. Not to mention DotP lets me unlock cards through pvp.. the reason I'm playing the game.. I'll play this Naxx stuff once for the cards and that's it.

 

[JesseZao]

I'm a big fan of DotP but I breeze through all of the campaigns/puzzles pretty quickly. Not to mention DotP lets me unlock cards through pvp.. the reason I'm playing the game.. I'll play this Naxx stuff once for the cards and that's it.

Same here, but I think it'll be fun to have the momentary puzzle distraction.

 

[Ashodin]

It's not a pay to win game. You can't buy skill.

 

[I'm an expert]

Same here, but I think it'll be fun to have the momentary puzzle distraction.

Unfortunately I have a feeling there will be a "these are too hard!" and "the people who play the game all day have an unfair advantage!" when people can't beat them.

 

[Aylinato]

I still don't have Murk Eye, and I have a fairly complete set of cards (missing mainly just legendaries)... been to lazy to figure out which murlocs I'm missing to get him.



Naxx? They're essentially giving every player easy access to 5 legendaries with it. Certainly better odds of getting them than via packs anyway.

For murlocs just go to crafting mode and BAAM you can see which one you are missing


I would not say naxx is easy access until we actually get it.

 

[Minsc]

I would not say naxx is easy access until we actually get it.

I don't know, I'd be shocked if the big Hearthstone sites didn't put out a guide with optimized decklists (one for no regards to rarity, and another for the cheapest approach) for every Naxx battle, and each Naxx puzzle where you play with a set deck I'd expect to see them put out the strategy for that too (what to mulligan for, when to play what cards, what to play around, etc).

Since it is all single-player content, I expect it to be a fairly simple process if you're following a guide, no matter how challenging Blizzard tries to make it.

 

[dave is ok]

I don't know, I'd be shocked if the big Hearthstone sites didn't put out a guide with optimized decklists (one for no regards to rarity, and another for the cheapest approach) for every Naxx battle, and each Naxx puzzle where you play with a set deck I'd expect to see them put out the strategy for that too (what to mulligan for, when to play what cards, what to play around, etc).

Since it is all single-player content, I expect it to be a fairly simple process if you're following a guide, no matter how challenging Blizzard tries to make it.

Some of the single player bosses in WoW were brutal

I kind of hope they go that way.

 

[Minsc]

Some of the single player bosses in WoW were brutal

I kind of hope they go that way.

I think the only way we'll see anything brutal is if they open it up to 3v1 or 4v1 type games. 1vs1 it's just a matter of getting the cards you need to win and that's it. Look at freeze mage, they just accumulate their 8 or 9 cards, then play everything at once doing ~32 damage or whatever and win.

You get a bad starting hand? Just quit right away and try again until you have something you have a chance with.

I guess they could do something really surprising, but even still, guides will take that in to account. Do you fight an enemy at 40 life? Strategies will be adjust to deal 40 damage. Do you fight an enemy at 50 life and then without recovering/resetting fight a 2nd battle against a 60 life opponent and also a third battle against a 1000 life opponent? Then Alexstrasza may actually be a requirement...

Edit: You could do more fun stuff too, like make global rules:
- All your cards cost (4) more mana.
- You can only play 1 card per round.
- Minions die immediately after dealing damage.
- Spells cannot target the opposing boss.
- Boss regenerates 10 life each turn.
etc

Maybe they'll go that route too.

 

[ZealousD]

I don't know, I'd be shocked if the big Hearthstone sites didn't put out a guide with optimized decklists (one for no regards to rarity, and another for the cheapest approach) for every Naxx battle, and each Naxx puzzle where you play with a set deck I'd expect to see them put out the strategy for that too (what to mulligan for, when to play what cards, what to play around, etc).

Since it is all single-player content, I expect it to be a fairly simple process if you're following a guide, no matter how challenging Blizzard tries to make it.

Blizzard basically needs super OP cards in order to make their AI challlening at all. Their AI even on expert settings is not the brightest. I still remember it using Aldor Peacekeeper on a flametongue totem. I mean seriously. Damn.

 

[Onion_Relish]

Edit: You could do more fun stuff too, like make global rules:
- All your cards cost (4) more mana.
-You can only play 1 card per round.
- Minions die immediately after dealing damage.
- Spells cannot target the opposing boss.
- Boss regenerates 10 life each turn.
etc

Maybe they'll go that route too.

Ramp Drood dont even get mad over this one

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Wow, it is bad today... zoolock, handlock, zoolock, handlock, almost every match playing zoolock or handlock. Last season I just about hit legend (got bored at the end) with druid and now I am just trying to do a quest in casual and I am 1/6 wins, 5 vs warlock.

 

[see5harp]

Slow players are the absolute worst.

 

[Violet_0]

Slow players are the absolute worst.

you see, everyone hates Mirace Rogues!

 

[I'm an expert]

Slow players are the absolute worst.

I used to be a fast player and realized I made a ton of mistakes. Some simple, some not so simple that required more thought. I think if you watch streamers play you get to see how useful it is to take most of your allotted time. Most times the answer doesn't click until the turn is almost over.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Maybe I just got all the warlocks all at once cause the next 5-6 I played were not warlocks and I finished my druid quest finally.

 

[Haly]

Tempted to craft Handlock cause Miracle vs Handlock is miserable.

 

[I'm an expert]

Tempted to craft Handlock cause Miracle vs Handlock is miserable.

Try Addict version. I'm about 70/30 with it in my favor for handlock.

 

[Haly]

I'm using both, Addict feels just as vulnerable as the usual but can get away with a nut hand.

 

[I'm an expert]

I'm using both, Addict feels just as vulnerable as the usual but can get away with a nut hand.

Yeah which is true for any deck against that deck. The mill version of addict is probably the best chance since your saps are permanent..but I don't have a Mukla or Cho.

 

[ShinNL]

Priest vs Priest .... lol xD