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Hearthstone |OT2| Created by Unstable Portal

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I love weapons in this game. I am even running 2 assassin's blades in rogue and I am trying out that whole 2x doomhammer thing people are raving about. I haven't played it enough in shaman but I like it in rogue since it can often give me that extra push since just the raw amount of damage is lovely for the cost.

I might even run that blingatron dude. What if I get a gorehowl... and then use blade flurry! lol

Get a gorehowl, double deadly poison... blade flurry for 11 damage!
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
A good card, to me, is one that forces metas around themselves, or at least work in a variety of metas, not ones that rely on being able to fit neatly into one specific meta or the other.

So then why are you badmouthing cards that just don't fit in the current meta? You don't think a card is good because it fits in a variety of metas, you think a card is only good if it fits in every meta. That's what I'm hearing.
 
Yeah, I'm going for the dream of Doomhammer with two Deadly Poisons.

I'd think it'd be cool to have a viable weapon / spell only deck, with only say Greenskin and Blingtron. Board presence is to important though.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
So then why are you badmouthing cards that just don't fit in the current meta?
To support my argument that grow effects were historically weak, which is why Undertaker seems pushed compared to his colleagues.

It's not a matter of "Undertaker is overpowered because its power distribution isn't in line with these other similar cards" but "Undertaker is overpowered because they realized this kind of card needs to be overpowered to be worth playing at all".

Actually, I misread your post, but I still disagree. I am not evaluating these cards based on how they perform in this meta, but in every meta I remember since I started playing.

Mana Wyrm: Playable when Freeze Mage was dominant. I chalk this up to the power level of Freeze Mage before the big nerf, and the undeveloped understanding of the game the community had at the time. Mana Wyrm looked like a good card, and it had nut openers with Arcane Missiles, Mirror Image and Coin. But modern Freeze Mage knows that Arcane Missiles/Mirror Image are actually not great choices, and Mana Wyrm was sidelined along with them. Playable in Aggro Mage, which was competitive for maybe two months in Spring? And only on the ladder.

Frothing Berserker: Played in early aggro Warrior decks and early Control Warrior shells. Aggro Warrior was always kind of lacking, and Control Warrior was underdeveloped as an archetype because people just didn't have access to all the cards it really needed to reach its full potential. Notice how, despite the addition of Death Bite and Unstable Ghoul, both cards which are played in current Control Warrior decks, and both cards which synergize with Frothing Berserker, he still doesn't appear in the "complete" Control Warrior lists. It's just not a good Control card, so it's inclusion in historical Control lists can be considered an accident.

Unbound Elemental: A common 3 drop in early incarnations of Midrange Shaman, which, really, is the only Shaman that ever existed. Despite most Shaman decks these days running a suite of Overload cards, (Lightning Bolt, Feral Spirit, Lightning Storm, Doomhammer, Lava Burst, Al'Akir), this card no longer sees play. What replaced it from Naxx? One or two Undertakers. Two Spectral Spiders. The thing that was really holding Shaman back then was Hunter's Buzzard/UTH combo, and now that that's gone, and Shaman is a real class, Unbound Elemental still hasn't made a resurgence. That tells me it was never really good, just filler because there was nothing else worth playing. As soon as a better card came along, Shaman dropped it like it was hot, despite having really good stats for its cost.

Starving Hyena: This was playable in UTH/Buzzard's heydey, but it was never overwhelming. It was a removal magnet, and unless you played it on the same turn of your UTH/Buzzard combo, it died instantly. Often, it would die even if you managed to grow it. But it worked because UTH/Buzzard worked. When they killed UTH/Buzzard, Hyena went with it. Or it was cut for Undertaker/Spectral Spider, just like in Shaman decks.

What's the common thread among all these cards?
If they were played, it was because the class they were in had some overpowered mechanic to carry them (classic Freeze Mage, old UTH/Buzzard), or if their deck design was underdeveloped (Control Warrior, Midrange Shaman). As soon as the nerfbat hit key elements in their respective classes, or if better choices for the same decks came along, they faded out.
 
All weapons and direct damage spells, plus silences to get past taunts. Could snag a win every once in a while lol
I got the one win that mattered with a no minion deck, Heroic Noth. It was fun.

Also, Haly has me wondering, with the Spare Parts cards, Blizzard might be looking into ways to continually buff other minions. Of course, Undertaker is just more reliable, but it's possible.
 
To support my argument that grow effects were historically weak, which is why Undertaker seems pushed compared to his colleagues.

It's not a matter of "Undertaker is overpowered because its power distribution isn't in line with these other similar cards" but "Undertaker is overpowered because they realized this kind of card needs to be overpowered to be worth playing at all".

I think historically there are a couple good grow cards. The bad ones are too situational, like secret keeper, or too expensive like gruul.

Mana Wyrm is bad.*
Mana Addict is bad.X
Lightwarden is bad.
Secretkeeper is bad.
Flesheating Ghoul is bad.A
Questing Adventurer is largely bad except as a budget VanCleef and still way suboptimal.A
Hyena is okay but not played anymore.*
Unbound Elemental is the same deal as Hyena.*
Frothing Berserker is the same deal as Hyena.*

* for good ones
X mana addict isn't really a grow card, more just a temporary buff.
Flesheating ghoul is decent in arena.
QA is decent in arena
Hyena is good and I think still worth playing in a more midrange hunter deck, which are totally outclassed by aggro hunter due to UT primarily.
Unbound elemental... that card actually is played in shaman still, but sometimes substituted for harvest golems. I run it since it is a pretty good card imo.
Frothing berserker is good, I guess people don't run it in standard control warrior anymore but it likely fits in a more midrange deck. Just being a 2/4 for 3 is good on its own and it easily becomes a 3/4 or 4/4 without much effort.

Also don't forget shade of naxxramas.

I think UT is just too good as a 1 cost minion. 1/1 or 1/2 at 2 cost seems perfectly acceptable to me. Maybe even 1/3 at 2 cost would be acceptable.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
1 cost minions have to be really strong to be playable. That's just how the game is. It ties back to what Kirblar said about the downsides of consistent resources. When you're guaranteed to have 2 mana on turn 2, and 2 cost spells that potentially trade for a 3-4 drop, 2 cost hero powers that can often deal 1 damage somehow, a 1 drop becomes much, much less attractive.

There are a few consistently "good" 1 drop Minions in the game. By good I mean survived multiple metas in their respective classes.

Northshire Cleric - Remember when this thread was nothing but complaints about how overpowered Cleric was? She's been unchanged, and Priest has only gotten better, but the QQ died out when people came to their senses and realized that although Priests are unfun to play against, they are also mostly a non-issue. 3 health.

Blood Imp - Original design was overpowered. Keep in mind that Warlock has the perfect hero power to support Aggro shells. Other classes wouldn't be able to run Blood Imp even in its vanilla state, except maybe Paladin. Stealth for damage avoidance.

Flame Imp - Massive tempo gain. Was nerfed and still playable. 2 health. Part of Warlock's kit.

Void Walker - Mostly playable as protection for other cheap minions. Would be far less playable outside of Aggro. 3 health. Part of Warlock's kit.

Leper Gnome - It's a Sinister Strike on legs. 1 health.

Argent Squire - Playable until Undertaker came along. Fit in only 1 or 2 decks. 1 health + divine shield = effectively 2 health.

See the pattern? 1 Health is a death sentence. Blizzard knows this. The only 1 health minion that really gets played is the one you don't mind dying. This is why Undertaker was given 2 health.
 

Brofist

Member
The Blingtron 3000 could have some interesting uses even against weapon classes. Warrior plays a Gorehowl, next turn Blingtron and replace his Gorehowl with a Lights Justice.
 
Two things I just realized;

Recombobulator might be a great card because you can 'extend' the life of a minion. Have it attack another minion then change it into a new one. Kind of helps you keep stuff on the board.

Enhance-o Mechano is going to be a pain to deal with in decks that flood the board. Not looking forward to that.
 

Haunted

Member
Hm, I think Trump is off on quite a few of his evaluations.

The video did get me hyped for playing a Mech-themed deck, though. :D
 
I just had a random minion idea, haven't really thought it through but.... 1/1 for 1, "has +1/+1, charge, can only attack minions. At the start of your turn, silence this minion"

edit: or maybe instead of +1/+1, it could have something like +1 attack, divine shield. They could call it the... argent.... poopsmith
 

bunbun777

Member
Where are my staffs? Locks priests mages and druids could all use some sort of magic enhancing weapon. Or magic daggers, sword whatever. Priest gets oh I don't know +1+4, each heal does +1 or +2 for 1 durability. Sacrificial dagger for warlock, +2+3, kill a minion with this weapon and receive life equal to minion's attack (or casting cost lol). Just thinking of random ideas I know they're probably not the greatest.
 

Rosenskjold

Member
Ha ha, check out this sequence that just happened to me in arena.

I have deathlord and acidic ooze on the board, opponent priest has nothing.

- Priest plays shadow madness on my deathlord and uses it to kill the ooze.

- Molten giant spawns for me

- Priest concedes

ha ha ha xD
 
Really wish I could play this damn game. Going on 7 weeks since I paid for Naxx but it didn't unlock. Hard to play ranked constructed with no naxx cards. Felt it was a good time improve at arena but I can't make any purchases either and I have no gold left.

Just asked support if they can apply some gold to my account so I can play some arena runs whilst I continue waiting for them to solve the naxx issue. Hopefully they accept.
 

caesar

Banned
What the hell is Trump thinking saying the Gnomish Experimenter isn't bad?

I remember before naxx he was raving about Deathlord as well.

Also, Enhanco in zoo is going to be insane - it's quite easily an extra win condition. Agree a lot more with Kripp's overview.
 

So good. Coin dagger turn one, drop the Auto-Barber on turn 2, use your dagger to kill off your opponents 1/1, 2/1, 1/2, 2/2, 3/1, or 3/2. Makes a ton of 1- or 2-drops totally free kills for a Rogue and leaves behind an acceptable 3/2 body.

EDIT: Hell, throw in a Shadowstep on this guy then re-play him on the same turn and you can take out 3-health minions also for basically just the cost of a Shadowstep.
 

caesar

Banned
So good. Coin dagger turn one, drop the Auto-Barber on turn 2, use your dagger to kill off your opponents 1/1, 2/1, 1/2, 2/2, 3/1, or 3/2. Makes a ton of 1- or 2-drops totally free kills for a Rogue and leaves behind an acceptable 3/2 body.

EDIT: Hell, throw in a Shadowstep on this guy then re-play him on the same turn and you can take out 3-health minions also for basically just the cost of a Shadowstep.
Holy fuck I just realized its a permanent effect on the weapon. Okay this card is great.
 

gutshot

Member
Rogues are definitely looking to benefit the most from the mechs right now. This card is amazing plus they have other nice synergies like Spare Parts, which are great cards to combo off of and/or cycle with Gadgetzan. And they are the only ones with a decent chance at summoning VOL7TRON.
 

ShinNL

Member
Holy fuck I just realized its a permanent effect on the weapon. Okay this card is great.
It only lasts for the remainder of the durability. Considering how many people play Captain Greenskin in Rogue, this card isn't that amazing. Good, yeah, but not amazing.
 

caesar

Banned
It only lasts for the remainder of the durability. Considering how many people play Captain Greenskin in Rogue, this card isn't that amazing. Good, yeah, but not amazing.
Yeah I get that, I just didn't see battlecry. This looks better than Greenskin to me since you can play it with wicked knife turn 2 or 3 and you can have 2 in your deck.
 
Someone kind of said this before, but I think it's a really good card since it'll allow you to trade with face and keep the minion on the board longer. Really have to wait and see what else comes to light till release.

Speaking of that, there is this thing for cards getting revealed. It's based on card art alone and you can only vote if you have twitter. However, you can see when new cards are going to get revealed.

To save time;
November 12, 14, 17, 19, 21, 24, 26, 28

My assumption, 17th and 24th are going to be rare or epic since they take three days instead of two. It's also highly possible it releases the first week of December, which would be awesome.


Edit: Just had a stunning realization. Clockwork Giant reminds me of the Iron Giant. Mad feels.
 
I'm not really that thrilled about the new rogue card. Just seems awkward to use as a 2 drop since it conflicts with hero power on turn 2 so much. So this is likely being played on turn 3 or on turn 2 as a raptor with mech tag.

I think it'll depend on how good the mech tag is worth. So despite all that, hero power turn 2, mechwarper + autobarber on turn 3 seems pretty good.
 
So I feel like I know the answer but Imma post anyway.

I'm getting back into the game and when I played before I splurged and got a shitload of cards so now I'm at this weird point where I have too many cards to like…learn?

And using ArenaBuilder (or whatever) to build my Arena decks is a super fast way to learn nothing about the game.

I also feel like NetDecking is the same thing. Helpful to win but not teaching me anything.

Any suggestions on getting better? Just straight up reading through all the cards?

One caveat, I'm at 24 now and I GOT to get to 20 by End Of Season for that card back.

:D
 

Volimar

Member
So I feel like I know the answer but Imma post anyway.

I'm getting back into the game and when I played before I splurged and got a shitload of cards so now I'm at this weird point where I have too many cards to like…learn?

And using ArenaBuilder (or whatever) to build my Arena decks is a super fast way to learn nothing about the game.

I also feel like NetDecking is the same thing. Helpful to win but not teaching me anything.

Any suggestions on getting better? Just straight up reading through all the cards?

One caveat, I'm at 24 now and I GOT to get to 20 by End Of Season for that card back.

:D

Learn by doing. And by watching pros. Find one that you enjoy, preferably one that explains as they play. Trump's youtube channel has what's called the iDraft: videos where he explains why he values certain cards over the others in his arena picks. Should give you some good tips. Don't worry, you'll get to 20 by the end of the month.
 

imBask

Banned
So I feel like I know the answer but Imma post anyway.

I'm getting back into the game and when I played before I splurged and got a shitload of cards so now I'm at this weird point where I have too many cards to like…learn?

And using ArenaBuilder (or whatever) to build my Arena decks is a super fast way to learn nothing about the game.

I also feel like NetDecking is the same thing. Helpful to win but not teaching me anything.

Any suggestions on getting better? Just straight up reading through all the cards?

One caveat, I'm at 24 now and I GOT to get to 20 by End Of Season for that card back.

:D

i'm far from being good but i'd say :

-watch educationnal streams and try to play along with the streamer
-you can netdeck but adapt the deck to your liking and try to understand the logic behind it
-think about every move, don't play too fast
 
Once we can view games in spectator mode, I look forward to coaching/being coached more easily. I'm no expert, but I've done well in the GAF tourneys and I think I could be pretty helpful to people here if, going forward, anyone is looking for someone to watch some of their matches.
 

imBask

Banned
Once we can view games, I look forward to coaching/being coached more easily. I'm no expert, but I've done well in the GAF tourneys and I think I could be pretty helpful to people here if, goingn forward, anyone is looking for someone to watch some of their matches.

do you think they'll add a delay of some sort?

because let's say I play against Reynad, what keeps me from getting a friend to snipe him in real time instead of stream-delayed?
 
B2LgOgJIAAAK60g.jpg:large


#antihandlock
 
do you think they'll add a delay of some sort?

because let's say I play against Reynad, what keeps me from getting a friend to snipe him in real time instead of stream-delayed?

I assume you can only Spectate friends. And, they let you know when someone is spectating you which I assume you can kick them out if you want.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys.

I know I'm improving my knowledge just by playing more Constructed. There'll be dudes who make a move and I'm like "Um, okay. That was bad."

So I feel like I'll keep accruing and improving and getting better sense of the cards and blah blah blah.

Gonna watch me some Trump tho.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys.

I know I'm improving my knowledge just by playing more Constructed. There'll be dudes who make a move and I'm like "Um, okay. That was bad."

So I feel like I'll keep accruing and improving and getting better sense of the cards and blah blah blah.

Gonna watch me some Trump tho.

One thing I am constantly asking myself during a match, and probably should even ask more, is how I am going to win this match up and what is going to stop me from winning.

When playing as a rogue, my main win condition is to get board and put out enough pressure to force awkward removal and snowball if they don't have said removal or sometimes it is just apparent that I have to put out the most damage possible and hope I have enough ways to get around taunts via silence or direct spells.

But against aggro I generally have to reduce incoming damage via minions or spells, depending on my hand, create a taunt wall or race for face damage with assassin's blade.

This all really depends on your deck and comes with a lot of experience with said deck. Sometimes you only have like a 30% chance to win from a certain board state if you make a risky move, but that may actually be a higher chance to win if you make the safe move.
 
One thing I am constantly asking myself during a match, and probably should even ask more, is how I am going to win this match up and what is going to stop me from winning.

When playing as a rogue, my main win condition is to get board and put out enough pressure to force awkward removal and snowball if they don't have said removal or sometimes it is just apparent that I have to put out the most damage possible and hope I have enough ways to get around taunts via silence or direct spells.

But against aggro I generally have to reduce incoming damage via minions or spells, depending on my hand, create a taunt wall or race for face damage with assassin's blade.

This all really depends on your deck and comes with a lot of experience with said deck. Sometimes you only have like a 30% chance to win from a certain board state if you make a risky move, but that may actually be a higher chance to win if you make the safe move.

I think also need to ask myself this when building decks. Just NetBuilding, I have no real sense of how any given card is actually helping me win.
 

CoolOff

Member
Next run karma hit hard. Rogue against Hunter.

Turn 6: Savannah Highmane
Turn 7: Savannah Highmane
Turn 8: Savannah Highmane

Yeah...

lmao had this again, but against a Warlock.

Turn 6: Dread Infernal
Turn 7: Dread Infernal
Turn 8: Dread Infernal

The odds for drafting it + drawing it must be astronomical.
 
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