FutureZombie
Banned
How will arena rewards be affected by the expansion? Which pack of cards will we be given from the chest?
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Hearthstone |OT2| Created by Unstable Portal
- Thread starter ZealousD
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FormallyFamicom
Member
GvG packs only.
The one time I got to play this card, the Hunter played the same card on his turn.
Midrange murloc is silly. Aside from Ol Murk Eye and the new Shaman card, all murlocs cost 3 mana or less. You can't really turn murlocs into a board control deck when murlocs are just that flimsy.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It would be more along the lines of a fast midrange but I don't see why it can't work as a midrange deck when you have neptulon giving you 4 minions and the card draw murloc.
Against aggro it would work by removing minions and then flooding the board when the chance shows itself. After that is is pretty much smooth sailing since the shaman has so much removal at hand. You may even be able to get board before aggro ever takes off and then you just draw into bigger threats like fire elemental and neptulon.
Also don't forget that shaman has that new murloc that will draw a card whenever a murloc dies, in effect a cult master for murlocs but playable stats. 2/5 + murloc synergy. This can allow them to play aggressively for board with their murlocs instead of going all in at face each turn.
You might even be able to fit in some windfury elements so when you play your murk eye you give him windfury and rockbiter and suddenly you've got 3 murlocs on board plus a 5 damage murk eye buffed to 8 with rockbiter and given windfury for 20+ damage finishers.
edit:
Here is a deck in concept at least:
http://www.hearthhead.com/deckbuild...zRC7MaD7zbn7Mbt7Md07Mhz7zgT7Mv07MvM7zvm7MvT8k
Probably needs adjustments like cutting grimscale oracle and maybe a lightning bolt or crackle to fit 2x hex in. Maybe cut 1 windspeaker as well and put in a defender of argus. Maybe fit in a flametongue totem or two. There are a lot of things you can do here I feel.
Little Nemo
Member
Better than the Mage one. I still am completely perplexed how they see that fitting in?
Permanently A
Junior Member
Reynad was playing with Neptulon earlier and found that running him on his own is good enough because you'll usually have enough synergy between the 4 random murlocs to make them worthwhile.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I don't know about arena anymore, with so many cards added it's made drafting infuriating at times.
Mad buyer's remorse right now...
Spent $150 on packs this weekend. Didn't realize what I was doing till it was all over.
:'(
Got really fucking good cards though. 8 legendaries and a ton of dust to craft what I need for certain decks.
Vowing to never spend a penny more on this game lmao.
Spent $150 on packs this weekend. Didn't realize what I was doing till it was all over.
:'(
Got really fucking good cards though. 8 legendaries and a ton of dust to craft what I need for certain decks.
Vowing to never spend a penny more on this game lmao.
Anyone know the exact time GvG is officially released?
edit - found it http://www.hearthpwn.com/blue-tracker/topic/10420-scheduled-maintenance-12-8-2014
Hearthstone will be unavailable during server maintenance on Monday, December 8 at 10:00 AM PST. We expect maintenance to be finished around 11:00 AM PST.
Thank you for your patience.
edit - found it http://www.hearthpwn.com/blue-tracker/topic/10420-scheduled-maintenance-12-8-2014
Hearthstone will be unavailable during server maintenance on Monday, December 8 at 10:00 AM PST. We expect maintenance to be finished around 11:00 AM PST.
Thank you for your patience.
Looks like Blizzard caught themselves a whale.
$150 on packs. Jesus, LOL.
I'm still mad salty about that one. Hey Blizz, that's what the neutral card flag is for.
I've spent $500+ on Marvel Heroes. I know what it's like.
I'm still mad salty about that one. Hey Blizz, that's what the neutral card flag is for.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Even in a constructed deck, every body on the board has potential for extra impact for shaman due to flametongue totem.
It could also work in a blood lust deck. Toss in an enhanceo bot or whatever and you can deal some real damage off just the cards from neptulon alone. I even like the fact that it adds cards to your deck instead of taking them from your deck. It gives you a fighting chance in fatigue matches.
Neptulon has overload though. It wouldn't work in other decks or it would cost like 9-10 mana to use.
Mad salty about one of the most OP cards in GvG? You don't even have to build around it. Drawing 4 random murlocs means a high probability of synergy among them as is. We're talking about a straight 7/7 that gives you 4 extra minions. Yes, there's overload, but that's crazy.
I'd take Neptulon over Bolvar every day of the year.
Murloc cards are below average on their own, so you have to get really good synergy for them to compete. Otherwise they just die too quickly.
Salty about the Murloc focus class legendary, not the specific card and what it does. It wouldn't work as is in other classes because it's designed for Shaman. Guess how they can make it work with other classes? Hint: don't design it exclusively for Shaman
I'd take plenty of things before Bolvar. Jury still out on Neptulon being as OP as you claim. Maybe you can stick it in every deck, or maybe it just fills your hand with unplayable trash every time and is unfit for every Shaman deck. Too early to say definitively, don't you think?
By the stage of the game you're playing it, your hand should have plenty of room for 4 cards. As said, there is a high probability of drawing a synergy card. So you're not playing four 2/1s. You're playing 2/3s or 3/2s or even dropping Old Murk Eye. The low cost of the cards is also a benefit, as it means they're easy to play on the overload turn. On the chance you're only drawing a couple of charging 2/1s, that's still a decent value and clears up room quickly.
You should see it in action.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Sure, which is where cards like flametongue totem come in. I'm not sure if I would run neptulon in a non-murloc shaman deck or if he belongs there over another card, but the murlocs are pretty good value for what you are paying for them. It is like playing a 7/7 and getting 2-3 card draw off it (I don't think you count every murloc as a full card in terms of value here). An ancient lore that draws murlocs and is bigger.
Salty about the Murloc focus class legendary, not the specific card and what it does. It wouldn't work as is in other classes because its designed for Shaman. Guess how they can make it work with other classes? Hint: don't design it exclusively for Shaman
I don't think you really can and still make it viable. I'd say neptulon's draw power is about the strength of ancient of lore's draw 2 cards (at worst, at best it could count as more since it is random). Maybe a bit better cause you can't get the token murlocs so you're getting generally speaking appropriate power level cards for cost.
Neptulon costs 10 mana total. 7 up front and 3 overload. That would make him about a 9 drop as a neutral, I think. Who would play a 9 drop neputlon? Not a murloc deck I think. It is just too slow and small as a 9 drop.
I've seen it a couple of times. I haven't seen it in constructed yet, nor I have seen what other decks constructed gravitates towards because it hasn't happened.
Then don't make it 9 mana. Make it 7 and nerf the stats, or nerf the effect, or nerf the murlocs you get, or balance it any of the other million ways powerful neutrals are already balanced in this game. Give it another effect, etc.
But that isn't even what I'm talking about. I'm not saying take Neptulon as it is and make it a neutral card. I'm saying, don't make a Murloc based legendary card for a specific class. That's all I've ever said about it, other than doubting claims that is OP, which I can concede if it comes true. No problem with that at all. It might end up being the most OP card ever made, that really isn't my problem with the card.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Why not have it as a class based legendary? It promotes players exploring new deck archetypes that they wouldn't have really have made before. I think it is a great example of blizzard's excellence in card design tbh.
Man, stupid The Beast. Used my free arena run earlier today and ended up with a 2-3 with a so-so Mage deck that just didn't come together right. But yeah, Legendary choices popped up but The Beast was the least poor choice. But the darn thing didn't even get in a single proper swing. The only time it stayed on the board it got knocked down to 1 attack before getting to do anything. Bleh.
You say it promotes new deck archetypes. Maybe it limits them. Maybe it is so good it limits Shaman to a Murloc based class archetype. Maybe if it was a neutral as most Murlocs are it would allow for those archetypes to work in 9 classes instead of 1. They already have another Murloc specific card for Shaman, don't they? An epic I believe. That's fine. They have pirates for Rogues too. It's cool, I like that. Don't make it a legendary.
Sure, obviously a neutral card could be used in all classes' decks, and creates more options that way. But of course cards have to be balanced in the context of the decks they work best in - Gadgetzan wouldn't have gotten nerfed if he was a Warlock class card.
The obvious worry with Murlocs is that they seem to work best with just a few classes, so when you add neutral Murloc cards you run the risk of adding cards which are going to be pretty useless to most classes - you might as well be adding them as Warlock class cards, for the most part. If they were good enough that decks making use of Murloc synergy became viable for lots of classes, Warlock-specific Murloc decks would probably be way too strong. The natural way to get around this - to try to make Murloc neutrals reasonable for lots of classes to use - is to make class-specific cards for classes that don't typically use Murlocs or Murloc synergies that make Murlocs more appealing for just those classes. I don't think I've ever seen a Shaman Murloc deck. Now Shamans have unique access to card draw on Murloc death and can fill their hand with Murlocs in the late-game. So maybe now it makes sense for Shamans to think about taking some of the neutral Murloc synergy cards, and then maybe some of the basic Murlocs too. I don't know that what Blizzard's done will work, but the idea seems sound - it's hard to see how a neutral Murloc legendary which is appropriate for use in decks with lots of Murlocs doesn't just end up being used only by the classes which already used lots of Murlocs. If Neptulon's Murloc-ness turns out to be basically aesthetic - if he has basically no place in decks with other Murlocs or with cards that have Murloc synergy - then it also doesn't seem like there's any loss to him being a Shaman-specific card, since you could just pretend the "Murloc" text wasn't there.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Shaman already has really good builds, doomhammer/alakir, doubledoomhammer/double lava burst, people are talking about potentially a burn shaman build, now murloc potentially, and because of cards like healbot and vitality totem control shaman could have a come back. I don't think a deck needs a cornerstone legendary card to be viable, see zoo, hunter, control priest...
I don't see why you think shaman might be limited to murloc only when they have a lot of potential deck archetypes coming with gvg.
GamerKingFaiz
Member
Do we know of a release time for GvG expansion?
Whenever they want. Chances are after maintenance on Tuesday but who knows how long that will last.
My wife bought me $120 in Blizzard bucks as gift. It's going to be hard to wait to spend it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Not playing hearthstone today, in anticipation of GVG tomorrow, has been very difficult.
I don't really disagree with most things you said. I understood that when the card was revealed, but I just feel I'm going in circles with the people in this thread. There's design decisions at large and there's also flavor, and I'm ready to admit it's completely my fault for keeping the discussion going on the "design" terms, instead of just clarifying that my initial reaction had almost exclusively to do with flavor. So just to state it plainly: I would've liked to see something else (with a different flavor) as the only new class specific legendary card in this set, and that my opinion hardly comes from the stats or balance of the card itself. I hope it's clearer now.
But to your point, I think I also disagree to an extent. It's true that Murlocs are limited to certain class(es) due to a variety of reasons (mostly stats and synergy) and it's fine that they are trying to broaden those horizons, but I don't really agree with this statement: "it's hard to see how a neutral Murloc legendary which is appropriate for use in decks with lots of Murlocs doesn't just end up being used only by the classes which already used lots of Murlocs." Well, I mean, that's where the skills of the developers and the design of the card would come in, wouldn't it? Shaman got a new Murloc epic, what if that Murloc epic interacted with the neutral Legendary. I don't really want to give any specific examples because I feel if I put something here people would respond to that specific example and dismiss it on that basis instead of conceding there are other possibilities of how to make it work, but against my better judgement, here it goes:
"X (neutral legendary) has Y effect (different/enhanced, etc. effect than its regular one) when Z (class specific card, not legendary) is in your deck".
Just one of many, many ways, in which you could guarantee a neutral card gets along well with one class, while still having some wiggle room at making it reasonable as a neutral card. Maybe we'll see that sort of mechanic in the future. Heck, maybe you don't need to go that far. I mean, classes already work differently and have neutrals that work better with some (weapon classes for example) than others. It shouldn't be impossible.
As for this part: "then it also doesn't seem like there's any loss to him being a Shaman-specific card, since you could just pretend the "Murloc" text wasn't there" I don't really agree with it. It might be true that cards like Bloodlust or Flame Totem might be enough to make those murlocs work, and the rest of the murloc-ness of the deck could be minimal or non-existent, but it still spawns murlocs from a limited pool, which are cards designed and budgeted a certain way. The loss to him obviously would be: it doesn't give you dragons, or mechs or beasts or anything else. Pretending or not, it's designed to give murlocs, and there's more to them than aesthetics. I really don't see how that could be ignored. If it gave you anything else, obviously other synergies could also be worked out.
In the end, and to let this whole discussion go and refocus the thread, I only felt like pursuing the "it should've been neutra l" point because a) I was disappointed the new legendary card for a class I like was a certain flavor, and b) I feel like that's where the flavor of those type of cards work best (referring to pirates and murlocs here) even when there are class cards that give them a boost, which I really don't mind. Just not strictly class legendaries would be my personal preference- something Blizzard obviously disagrees with, at least for this exp. I think it's not that hard to understand, the same way some would've been disappointed if the Rogue class legendary was a pirate for example. It's probably petty, but that's how I feel about the card.
I don't really think so, but we don't know where every class will stand if a few weeks time. I'm looking forward to the new totem and especially the new weapon.
I'd like to think that something like Murlocs can "promote those new archetypes" beyond a specific class, and obviously making the only new Murlocs class specific (ignoring the neutral 3/2 which let's face it, isn't a game changer overall) is directly snubbing every other class that would want to run them, and taking other legendary possibilities away from a class that maybe doesn't want to. But that's fine in a general sense, considering this expansion isn't Murloc based or anything.
There's an option now in settings called "quality" set it to high and the game suddenly looks insane. Silky smooth 60fps on my old rig... Could not believe my eyes.
The Lamonster
Member
Why is my Arena button still all electrified and loud even after I used my free token?
Been there since the closed beta.
AntiFacebook
Member
What happens if i play hellfire and kill both players. I got the defeat screen, did the other guy get it too?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Both get a loss iirc.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
If I had to guess, I would guess 1/1000 matches results in a tie in hearthstone... seems like an interesting question to ask ben brode over twitter.
AntiFacebook
Member
Why can't I buy GvG packs? They said the expansion will be out on december 8,which is now.
FormallyFamicom
Member
They said around mid-day, not a midnight launch.
Little Nemo
Member
The only way I could see him possibly working is with a deck built to drag out to exhaustion with a bunch of other big threats that catch all the removal then you drop him at the end, massive from your entire rest of your deck being destroyed and your opponent with no way left to remove him.
It seems like a lot of wishful thinking though.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
"...The Millennials!"
In the last game, she didn't even have any secrets. I had a shitty mulligan (nothing less than 4) and I had to play defensive for most of the match. Whenever I had something decent going, she just cleared the board every time. She played almost every mage AoE spell with great effect, Arcane Missiles, Cone of Cold, and Flamestrike.
I'm sure I played poorly on top of that so it only added to the frustration.
Are there any decent neutral cards that can help against Mages? It can be for any class but I've been leaning towards Druid lately. All I've done is add a couple Spectral Knights and a Faerie Dragon but I wish there was more out there. How fucked is it that the only counterspell ability is exclusive to the Mage.
Edit: I misread your mis-read comment. I hate playing AGAINST mages.
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