My favorite thing as shamen is to coin whirling zap o matic, if they can't deal with it its so strong. Especially with a taunt totem or removal to kill a non-charge minion of theirs.
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Hearthstone |OT2| Created by Unstable Portal
- Thread starter ZealousD
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My favorite thing as shamen is to coin whirling zap o matic, if they can't deal with it its so strong. Especially with a taunt totem or removal to kill a non-charge minion of theirs.
RumblingRosco
Member
I coin --> Hero Power on turn 1 occasionally as a Shaman in Arena if I have a Flametongue Totem in-hand. It's probably wrong, but it feels so right when my 1/1 totem takes out their X/3 minion.
Of course usually my FTT is left for dead after that until I have a decent follow-up.
wonderful post. I didn't vet the accuracy of each instance.. but the number of people adverse to coining turn 1 is ridiculous. if I have a turn 2 and turn 3 followup in my hand allowing me a turn 1 coin, I have no issue doing so. if I have a turn 2, 3, and 4 followup in my hand that plays off of a turn 1 coin, I would be stupid not to play it.
the popular streamer theory is that coin is there first and foremost to bypass the part of the curve that the draw/mulligan screws you on. which is fine and dandy... the situation then arises where, if you don't get screwed on draw/mulligan, does it put you at advantage still coining through the curve where you're not screwed, but can get a play from it.
there is no hard and fast coin rule. it's what your deck is built around, what kind of a player you are, your familiarity with the deck/class you're playing against, and what you drew/mulliganed. Based on all of that there's a solid reason to coin on pretty much any given turn through the mid game.
correct. Unless it is a card you want to use already, you can just dust it and get another card that you want.
In the last arena, someone dropped zap o matic and on turn 3 buffed it with 2 rockbiters, then went to the face for 18 damage. I won anyway since he didn't much of a follow up and I was playing a priest.
Rosenskjold
Member
Prophet Velen and Pyroblast (from unstable portal) is just sick xD
Servbot #42
Unconfirmed Member
thanks to the new expansion getting dust is more easy, it's perfect if you want craft cards that you are missing.
He's the only GvG legendary I have, but he's golden muhahahahaha.
he's a 9 drop for 7 mana. the problem is if he gets removed on the next turn he's now two 1 drops for 7 mana.
It's a great card, just far from unstoppable. Biggest issue I see is that he's often run in legendary heavy decks where it "might" not be your best move to waste a hard removal on a 7 drop knowing there might be a few more 7-9 drops (though again, he's really a 9 drop split among three cards). Removing him ends up being more of a sting than a game changer (i.e. I just spent my turn 7 dropping two 1 drops, as opposed to I just had my finisher removed)
two 1 drops that wreck your shit
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Maybe the bombs should only deal extra damage to the character they die against. This would make them more useful for only board control and slightly less useful for that compared to the current text where it can just randomly 1 shot a 4 hp minion.
It would also give you smart and clever ways to play around, and make playing him a smarter choice when your opponent can't find a smart or clever way to play around. I don't have him but it just seems like you play the card the first opportunity you can and thats it.
It would also give you smart and clever ways to play around, and make playing him a smarter choice when your opponent can't find a smart or clever way to play around. I don't have him but it just seems like you play the card the first opportunity you can and thats it.
If he gets removed on the next turn he still does something fairly effective which is leave two more targets capable of doing up to 10 total damage. If you use BGH on him then your 3 drop is likely to be killed by one of the bots. Silencing one of the bots is a rough option and wastes a valuable silence. Not to mention he fills the 7-mana slot nicely and sets up for 8 or 9-mana drops on the next turn. IMHO he's a game changer and is the best GvG legendary.
FiveSix4Three
Member
Just got into this last night. I can see this competing for most of my gaming time.
Been out of MTG for quite some time, and its just too expensive now to get competitive with it again.
This scratches a very old itch.
Been out of MTG for quite some time, and its just too expensive now to get competitive with it again.
This scratches a very old itch.
Professor Lich
Member
Dr. Boom is also great because of his card inscription, or whatever you want to call the line in the crafting screen.
Random question, do Boom Bots get Charge from Warsong Commander? I feel like that effect has changed from summon to play since it doesn't work on Damaged Golem and other type effects.
Random question, do Boom Bots get Charge from Warsong Commander? I feel like that effect has changed from summon to play since it doesn't work on Damaged Golem and other type effects.
Tbh i'd want Boom slightly nerfed only because it's the only strictly better card in the game and it irk me as the lone exception (same stats as War Golem but with only positive upsides). Mechanical Yeti for example isn't strictly better than Yeti because the ability isn't a strict upside.
Personally i'd make Boom a 7/6 so it get cleared by 5 attack + hero power or fireball, making it somewhat worse vs mage.
Personally i'd make Boom a 7/6 so it get cleared by 5 attack + hero power or fireball, making it somewhat worse vs mage.
people saying "10 damage" or "1/1s that wreck your shit" are vastly overstating the boom bots. yeah when RNG goes the owner's way, they are devastating... but when it doesn't.. it's like "really....?"
I've had two games in a row where they were cleared before my next turn (by me and my opponent respectively) where they went 1 damage each to the hero. yeah when they hit for 4 on opportune targets it sucks.. but no worse than any other late game RNG IMHO.. and chances are my dr boom is nullified already.
I've had two games in a row where they were cleared before my next turn (by me and my opponent respectively) where they went 1 damage each to the hero. yeah when they hit for 4 on opportune targets it sucks.. but no worse than any other late game RNG IMHO.. and chances are my dr boom is nullified already.
Kotetsu534
Member
If there's one change that made no sense to me in the G&G patch it was making Harvest Golem a Mech and not making War Golem one. Harvest Golem was already one of the best 3-drops in the game and would still have seen play even if he didn't get buffed, but War Golem has always been an "eh" pick, outshone by the competition in his own slot and in the 6-drop class.
Was actually thinking of an arena draft mode with randomized hero powers. You draft your deck and each match your hero power is randomized. Could be fun, lol.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It didn't take long for people to migrate back to their mindless aggro hunter decks...
After all, apparently undertaker is not OP, mad scientist is not OP...
After all, apparently undertaker is not OP, mad scientist is not OP...
Professor Lich
Member
Both Arcane Golem and War Golem are magical constructs than actual machinery. Could be wrong but I always thought War Golems were solid stone enchanted to move.
At least that's the only lore answer I can think of. I don't see how making it a Mech would improve its use however.
The change to Warsong Commander was confirmed by Blizzard to be a bug, so once they fix it the Boom Bots would get charge if Warsong was out.
http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/9677847863
Pyros_Eien
Member
Even assuming they did 0 damage, it's a 7/7 and 2x 1/1 for 7mana. That's worth playing just because of the synergy of having a bunch of bodies(argus, bloodlust, flametongue, savage roar etc, you know token stuff) as well as just the raw amount of stats you get for the mana cost. On top of that the bombs will do at least one damage to something each. I mean they can be silenced, but unlikely. It's just insane value even if you roll 1 on both RNG and they hit whatever you don't want them to hit. And then they can both hit for 4 where you need them to.
Card probably too strong. OP maybe not but I think it's losing some stats or getting 1more mana cost for what it provides. Or worse, make the bombs target purely random targets(aka they kill Dr Boom all the time most of the time).
Yeah I mentioned awhile back that none of the gvg cards actually improves zoo or hunter except maybe Clockwork Gnome but I'd still run Leper over it and I don't think you can fit both in. Took people awhile to figure it out I guess but maybe they were hoping to stumble on some new hot deck.
That implosion zoo is pretty fucking ridic with the sea giants.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Had one with a turn 3 4/5. I somehow cleared it and then he just played another and got it to 3/4 the turn played.
Maybe it is my fault for trying to rank up this late in the season. All the scrubby aggro players have gotten out of low ranks I guess. Happens every season it seems like.
But haha this fucking dumbass put feign death in his deck. All he did was summon 2x hyenas off highmane and went all face like a moron even though I had a 6/3 on field and he could have even kill commanded it. But instead the idiot goes all face.
I have a healbot in my hand, but I'm 4 off of lethal so I fan of knives to try to get 1 of my 2 remaining eviscerates or one of my 2 remaining blade flurries to clear board, and I get the eviscerate. Even if I got none of that, I could have healbotted out of lethal.
Professor Lich
Member
Awesome, thanks.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I jumped into practice mode to try this but it wouldn't work.
It's less consistent than old deathrattle zoo because sea giants are a dead card if your board is cleared.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
PBW should bottle those tears, make a patented soft drink out of them. Call it Dr. Weeper.
X D
I hope they don't nerf those cards! I loveeeee playing Hunter with my control Mage deck. 9-1 so far against them with my latest version and one of the main reasons I have a 75% winrate over the last 2 days.
I also run Mad Scientist so I guess that factors into to it as well heh
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I hope they do. Mad scientist would still be viable at 3 mana. You draw and play a secret for free still.
Eh see I disagree with the assessment of that first paragraph. The argument is "if nothing is done the card is too strong" which of course is true of like any card in the game. By comparison leper gnome is also 1 cost, 2/1, and two guaranteed to the face as deathrattle. Now I already conceded that you are getting two 1 drops making it a 9 drop for 7 mana. But the number of times I've seen Dr. Boom left alone are probably on par with the number of times I've seen him soft removed (attack or health set to 1, hex/sheep, etc) though admittedly rarely hard removed. At this point you are basically left with two pseudo-leper gnomes. Raising his cost by one frankly makes no sense as you now save 1 mana for what you get, and open yourself up to having the biggest chunk of that removed. You've now spent your turn 7/8 for two one drops as opposed to just 7/8.
Imho the big litmus test shouldn't be "what's his best case scenario if everything goes perfect" but "how will it impact the game if we make the change". If they raise the cost he's at best an even value almost. If they change the boom bots to ANY minions they become really shitty leper gnomes on their best day and "congrats you just lost" on their worst day. That was the problem with the tink change. A card should never result in "you just lost the game" simply from being played.
It's a strong card yes, but raising the cost by 1 will make it an even value at best, and changing the boom bits to any minion will make them unplayable.
His body sucks for a 3 drop. No way could they pull that off without adjusting his body. Even then he'd be a near vanilla three drop with the same power. The only reasonable change they might make is to make it a secret from your hand instead of deck. Though right now at 2/2 he has a less than optimal body for 2 mana. If they did from your hand they'd almost have to bump him to 3/2 or 2/3.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
His body per mana should suck for the text he has.
2/2 at 3 mana would still be reasonable since it draws and plays a secret. Loot hoarder only draws a card and is a 2/1. Novice is 1/1.
2/2 for 3 mana isn't unheard of either:
coldlight oracle
iron sensei
raid leader... just to name a few 2/2s for 3 mana.
Making him play a secret from hand is probably fine as well. The combination of draw and play is pretty broken though. And I think it would still be fine at 3 cost for that reason. In fact, I think making it play from hand might actually be a bigger nerf cause you are not likely to have a secret in hand that early in the game, making him pointless on turn 2 anyway.
But all of the 3 drops you listed are WAY more powerful card text than play a secret death rattle.
Loot hoarder I'll give you, but the general design of the game puts card draw text as stronger than most other text short of "all minion" or "every turn" stats adjustments. Just the nature of CCGs puts card draws as among the most powerful card text in a game.
Honestly undertaker they just need to raise by a mana. That would be a perfect example. Then on turn 2 the best you could have is a 2/3 with coin. Pretty vanilla stats but still with a super strong card text. The problem with him now is that his first attack on turn two can very well be as a 3/5. With the right cards there's literally no way to remove him before either turn 4 or so, or without burning an all important silence.
Loot hoarder I'll give you, but the general design of the game puts card draw text as stronger than most other text short of "all minion" or "every turn" stats adjustments. Just the nature of CCGs puts card draws as among the most powerful card text in a game.
Honestly undertaker they just need to raise by a mana. That would be a perfect example. Then on turn 2 the best you could have is a 2/3 with coin. Pretty vanilla stats but still with a super strong card text. The problem with him now is that his first attack on turn two can very well be as a 3/5. With the right cards there's literally no way to remove him before either turn 4 or so, or without burning an all important silence.
Super Nothing
Member
His body might suck (it really doesn't, 2/2 for 2 isn't bad at all), but his text is extremely powerful. I'd pay 3 mana just for the text. Mage secrets cost 3 mana to play, Hunter's are 2 mana, and this card not only finds them in your deck for you, but puts them in play for free. That's like card draw and free mana. His body is just the cherry on top. The problem is that he's too powerful as is, and you're talking about buffing him to compensate for nerfing him. That makes no sense.
The thing with Mad Scientist is that it basically is drawing a card, AND playing it for free.
Minsc
Gold Member
The gap between War Golem (never used) and Dr. Boom (fits in nearly any deck), speaks to its imbalance at 7 mana. Make it 8 and I think it'd be a better compromise for the card.
There is basically no correct response to it, other then finish the game on your turn after it is played. Near every play against it results in a poor trade.
If Blizzard nerfs it, they'll probably just make the bombs target anything at random rather than any enemy at random. Which would be fine imo. After Boom gets blown up by his own bombs a couple times, he'd start coming out of a couple decks.
As it stands, there's no card better to spend 3200 dust on, because it's an investment you're bound to get back at some point. I doubt they'll nerf it next month, but after the GvG shininess wears down, something's gotta give.
There is basically no correct response to it, other then finish the game on your turn after it is played. Near every play against it results in a poor trade.
If Blizzard nerfs it, they'll probably just make the bombs target anything at random rather than any enemy at random. Which would be fine imo. After Boom gets blown up by his own bombs a couple times, he'd start coming out of a couple decks.
As it stands, there's no card better to spend 3200 dust on, because it's an investment you're bound to get back at some point. I doubt they'll nerf it next month, but after the GvG shininess wears down, something's gotta give.
Taking a secret from your deck is nowhere near a card draw. We all know hunters are going to get either their snake trap or exploding trap out and we play around them. Mage secrets are even easier to play around. If there were more secrets or they had a bigger game impact I'd possibly agree. But as it is secrets are an annoyance to play around. Nowhere near an actual card draw.
This is my point. It was the same problem with the Leeroy nerf where Auctioneer was the real problem. Mad Scientist isn't OP. It's that you get his body and card text PLUS +1/1 on UT to boot. Adjust UT and you will absolutely see everyone else's value even out as well.
Super Nothing
Member
This is objectively wrong. There is no way that Iron Sensei's text is better than Mad Scientist's. Not only are you paying more for Iron Sensei, but his text is much more situational. Mad Scientist is cheaper and doesn't require anything else on board to activate. And Raid Leader is a basic card. Literally everyone has it, and still no one runs it. Coldlight Oracle is a strong effect, but it also has a downside in also giving the other player two cards, so it's offset by a negative. And again, all three of those cards, even with inferior text, cost more than Mad Scientist.
How is it not card draw? It's literally drawing a card from your deck and placing it in play. That's card draw + reduction in spell cost. And yes, Hunters are going to get traps out. You know what's even better than that? Getting a trap out for free and getting a 2/2 on board. Whenever I draw traps in my starting hand when playing Undertaker Hunter, I mulligan them so that I might get Undertakers and Mad Scientists so that I can get those exact same traps out for free without slowing me down from vomiting minions all over the board.
Minsc
Gold Member
The problem with Mage secrets is they're only easy to play around if you're not behind. If a mage has board presence, their secrets become a ton harder to play around. Do you cast a spell to clear their minion, risk casting one of your own? Or throw a weak minion down to test the waters and find out nothing happened, but now you can't cast your spell?
Plus it thins their deck. Which makes all the chances of them drawing a card they need to win even higher, since it's one less secret to have wasting space in their hand.
The value of secrets is forcing a suboptimal play. If you have to play a weaker minion to test the waters for a mirror entity and are wrong, on top of how early mad scientist triggers, it's hard to come back from. Even if you're right, it isn't even a huge win necessarily as it was basically just a benefit from mad scientist. Him being played so early is nothing but beneficial, as he is pretty bad if they already have the secrets in hand.
Also, he's a card that exists as a neutral for all of hearthstone's life. Any time they add a secret, he's a card that they need to keep in mind while designing.
Yeah, it's one of the most blatant examples of being a card with the same stats with nothing but upsides.
It's guaranteed value regardless of response. If you BGH the body, the bombs are still there(and are likely to take out the BGH's wimpy healthpool). This applies to polymorph and hex as well. AoE, based off your board, can be really bad, and the 1/1 bombs require playing around while not being strong enough to silence. Even if you go that route, you aren't going to double silence, and still need to handle the 7/7.
I figured making the bombs more like the mad bomber style would have made more sense as it could potentially backfire in some way. As is he's just an obvious include if you get him.
Also, he's a card that exists as a neutral for all of hearthstone's life. Any time they add a secret, he's a card that they need to keep in mind while designing.
Yeah, it's one of the most blatant examples of being a card with the same stats with nothing but upsides.
It's guaranteed value regardless of response. If you BGH the body, the bombs are still there(and are likely to take out the BGH's wimpy healthpool). This applies to polymorph and hex as well. AoE, based off your board, can be really bad, and the 1/1 bombs require playing around while not being strong enough to silence. Even if you go that route, you aren't going to double silence, and still need to handle the 7/7.
I figured making the bombs more like the mad bomber style would have made more sense as it could potentially backfire in some way. As is he's just an obvious include if you get him.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I dunno what else to say regarding mad scientist but emphasize the fact that it draws a card and plays one. I think that is as stronger than iron sensei's affect which happens at the end of the turn and only impacts mechs.
UT is best either starting at 1/1 or like you said raised cost to 2. We pretty much agree on that point. Raising him to 2 mana is probably the best of those 2.
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