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Hearthstone |OT2| Created by Unstable Portal

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I've said it before:

Priest thoughtsteal:

against rogue:
eviscerate and si7 agent, sometimes sprint

against paladin:
aldor peacekeeper, consecrate, sometimes tirion

against shaman:
lightning storm, lightning bolt, sometimes doomhammer

It is basically hard coded
kappa
 

Szadek

Member
Mill druid doesn't have to be all removal and healing. I think the better mill decks are running clockwork giant, sapper, etc., whereas the ones with heavy healing just can be overcome by solid board presence.

It is, imo, the true definition of a hipster deck that only has a few okay match ups (maybe even better than okay in some cases), but loses to almost everything else that curves out decently.

If a druid uses grove tender to draw cards early over gaining a mana crystal, it is mill and at that point you should know how to play against it. I think I've lost to mill druid on ladder... once and that was like the real early days of GVG when I was heavily experimenting myself with a high curve rogue deck.
But the deck is pretty good against many match ups.
Most control decks struggle against the deck and aggro decks run out of steam.
It's also pretty much impossible to lose to forst mage...too bad that nobody plays it.
 
But the deck is pretty good against many match ups.
Most control decks struggle against the deck and aggro decks run out of steam.
It's also pretty much impossible to lose to forst mage...too bad that nobody plays it.

I disagree with it being good against aggro. Perhaps bad aggro players are using their burn too early. But they won't run out of steam unless they play poorly.

I know its alright against some control decks, mainly handlock. I'm not convinced its good enough to ladder with though I'd imagine at the right times you can get a couple wins out of it.
 

ViviOggi

Member
Huntard Huntard Zoo Huntard Zoo Zoo Huntard Huntard Huntard Huntard Zoo

*switch to fun anti-aggro Priest deck*

Control Warrior Handlock Handlock Handlock
 

Majine

Banned
Oh yes, got a new legendary, Toshley! Now I'm thinking of what decks I can put him in. I'm thinking of the synergy between him and Gazlowe.
 
Oh yes, got a new legendary, Toshley! Now I'm thinking of what decks I can put him in. I'm thinking of the synergy between him and Gazlowe.

Toshley is a card I'd like to have. The deck I kinda want to run him in is druid for some reason. Ramp druid. 5/7 on turn 4-5 seems pretty badass, and you get more time to make use of both spare parts.

Best deck for Gazlowe is Priest. Gazlowe is still hot garbage sadly.

Why priest? You don't really save your 1 cost spells and I feel like it is a poor pick also because of the spare part minions not working in a control priest deck so well (at least that is my initial impression). I guess I should try it out though. Fatigue priest... hmmm.
 

ViviOggi

Member
hearthstone_screenshot5u2b.png

Nice class
 
Just beat the slowest Handlock player ever with my newly minted Druid. Feel vindicated.


Didn't even get a ramp. His fatal mistake was the greed of only taunting an owl at the end, instead of owl and giant. He probably would've lost anyway unless he pulled out a Jaraxxus, and even then.
 
Just beat the slowest Handlock player ever with my newly minted Druid. Feel vindicated.


Didn't even get a ramp. His fatal mistake was the greed of only taunting an owl at the end, instead of owl and giant. He probably would've lost anyway unless he pulled out a Jaraxxus, and even then.

Beating handlock with any new deck feels pretty good. It is usually the most annoying match up to navigate using a new deck.
 

Raxus

Member
Why priest? You don't really save your 1 cost spells and I feel like it is a poor pick also because of the spare part minions not working in a control priest deck so well (at least that is my initial impression). I guess I should try it out though. Fatigue priest... hmmm.

I didn't say it was very good. Priest just has a lot of synergy already built in with 1 mana cards like Smite and Power Word:Shield

I suppose Mech Rogue could work as well but you'd need a ton of things to fall in your favor.
 
The spread is just too damn big.
I think that's why I like it so much. If it rolls low, it's cheap enough to combo with another cheap spell Shamans roll but it's high enough to be decent late game removal.

You count on it dealing 3 damage but sometimes you get a high roll and you don't have to spend another card. You can't play around it. You can't plan for it. There is no strategy to the card. You just get lucky sometimes or you don't.
I don't get this reasoning. You know the four numbers it can be. You know what's in your hand and what's on your board if you need extra help. I guess in my mind that's the definition of playing around something but maybe it means something else.

I'll be honest, I don't like damage rolls, I'd prefer another system with Overload, but it'll probably never change. I also guess you can't do anything about it when it's used against you either, which sucks.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
I think that's why I like it so much. If it rolls low, it's cheap enough to combo with another cheap spell Shamans roll but it's high enough to be decent late game removal.

Right. So the idea here is that you plan on spending 2 cards to kill a thing, but then sometimes crackle just rolls high and then you don't. That's pure RNG. You didn't setup the board to make the RNG more favorable for you. You can't manipulate the odds in your favor. Just sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. That's dumb. At least with sometimes like Ragnaros I can at least manipulate my opponent's board state to give me better odds.

I don't get this reasoning. You know the four numbers it can be. You know what's in your hand and what's on your board if you need extra help. I guess in my mind that's the definition of playing around something but maybe it means something else.

By "play around" I mean as an opponent facing that card. With spells with constant damage, I know how many of those spells you've used and I know what hp my minions have to be at in order to avoid getting killed by that card. For example, if I have the armor spare part in my hand and I have a 3/3 on the board, I know that lightning bolt can kill that thing without spellpower, so I might put armor it up to "play around" lightning bolt. Or with other board states I can do things like make certain trades in a way that keeps my minions at or above 4 health to avoid lightning bolt.

With crackle? I have no idea how much damage you could do to my minion. Do I avoid putting down a yeti because you have a 50/50 to crackle it? No. Is there a difference between 3 health and 4 health on a minion as it relates to crackle? No. I might be able to anticipate that you have crackle in your hand but I have no idea what the outcome of your roll is going to be so I'm just going to proceed as if you don't.

Basically, there is no strategy in working around the RNG with that card. It doesn't open up strategic options for the person playing it, it just randomly allows you to avoid using another card. Your opponent can't play around it, they just have to realize that no minion they put down is safe from some random ass crackle that works super well in the shaman's favor. And in almost every roll where it comes out 3 or 6 (half the rolls), one of the persons in the match is going to feel like they got screwed by the RNG.
 
It would be kinda cool if they make something like

Electrify (2m)
Destroy enemy minion and overload equal to its health.

that would have to be 0 mana to be even remotely worth it.
(or add some sort of card the removes all overload for the next turn)

Cleanse Spirit (2 mana) - Remove all overload gained this turn. Draw a card.
 
I still like the idea we had before where you could adjust the Overload cost to boost damage. Akin to Lightning Bolt just being one for two damage or one plus one Overload for three. Would make things a lot more predictable and Shamans would still need to plan out Mana costs.

I'd also like to see something else that uses Overload akin to what EscapingJail said. Seems more likely than the former idea.
 

Special C

Member
There is one thing I like about Dr. Boom's relevance. An extra hard hitting legendary alongside Rag lets you play a bunch of decks without needing the class legendary. I can now play Ramp Druid though missing Cenarius, and I can play Control Paladin without having Tirion. He just fits in any control deck. Still kind have to have Grommash for Warrior though.
 

manhack

Member
There is one thing I like about Dr. Boom's relevance. An extra hard hitting legendary alongside Rag lets you play a bunch of decks without needing the class legendary. I can now play Ramp Druid though missing Cenarius, and I can play Control Paladin without having Tirion. He just fits in any control deck. Still kind have to have Grommash for Warrior though.

I thought about switching out Tirion for Dr. Boom, but every non-aggro deck has BGH so it doesn't seem worth it.
 

Brofist

Member
Every time I play a BMing asshole without fail they get every bit of RNG to go their way. With out fail. I'm not talking about people who BM after the play, I mean the ones who straight away act like jerks. Infuriating.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
I was playing with that Warrior OTK deck earlier tonight and I got totally fucked with my draws. No matter how long the game went, I wasn't drawing a Raging Worgen. Luckily, the priest I was playing against didn't have a great deck, and I kept ass-pulling until I finally drew one with my FOURTH TO LAST CARD.

Worgen + Inner Rage + Rampage + Rampage + Charge + attacking with Death's Bite = my first-ever 30 damage OTK.
 
I was playing with that Warrior OTK deck earlier tonight and I got totally fucked with my draws. No matter how long the game went, I wasn't drawing a Raging Worgen. Luckily, the priest I was playing against didn't have a great deck, and I kept ass-pulling until I finally drew one with my FOURTH TO LAST CARD.

Worgen + Inner Rage + Rampage + Rampage + Charge + attacking with Death's Bite = my first-ever 30 damage OTK.

Worst luck I've ever had was playing against Handlock with Mill Rogue. This is THE deck that Mill Rogue was designed to beat, but I couldn't pull either of the Coldlight Oracles to save my life. I got down to 4 cards left in my deck when he killed me, never got a god damn one of the things. I just assume they were card numbers 29 and 30.
 
There is one thing I like about Dr. Boom's relevance. An extra hard hitting legendary alongside Rag lets you play a bunch of decks without needing the class legendary. I can now play Ramp Druid though missing Cenarius, and I can play Control Paladin without having Tirion. He just fits in any control deck. Still kind have to have Grommash for Warrior though.

You CAN play control warrior without Grom. But it feels pretty terrible. Works for daily quests, but I wouldn't try to seriously ladder with it. In control matchups you simply don't have enough reach/threats without him and/or Alexstraza. Not sure on the exact number, but you have to have more threats than the opponent has possible removals to have a good chance of winning. My deck has 3-4 big threats and that's not enough.
 
There is nothing like just pulling all the right cards against handlock.

For some reason, this handlock played a zombie chow turn 1. So then on turn 3 I backstabbed it, stabbed it, and hit his face with si7 agent. He plays dark bomb. And taps turn 4, after I prep'd sprint. This got me a pretty crazy set of tools to win. And I equip assassin's blade and hit face. He plays a sludge belcher then. I deadly poison and play bloodsail raider for 7/3 and kill belcher.

The warlock is only at 21 hp. Only, being an odd word to describe his hp in this situation. For I have 2 swordoils in hand, blade flurry, and preparation. Instead of removing bloodsail raider, he silences it. So I eviscerate the 1/2 sludge taunt, prep sword oil... 9 damage weapon, 5 attack minions + 9 damage blade flurry, 21 damage even.

Imagine if I didn't have lethal. What is he gonna do... make a wall of giants? Oh, that's right, 9 damage blade flurry! This was turn 6. 19 damage from hand, 2 on board. Even a taunt, albeit only a 1/2 taunt.

This deck is sooo good against handlock.... when I get sprint.
 

johnsmith

remember me
Yeah, I love wrecking handlocks. Especially after getting to legend twice and hitting 500 wins with undertaker priest. My mech druid is undefeated against them. Those turn 5 wins are so good.
 
I'm curious if ramp druid fares better than token druid right now. Classic ramp doesn't typically have room for 2x combo, though having 2 copies can be useful for clearing if you get in some sticky situations swipe can't solve since you're not going to be running starfalls or starfires.

I'm having a bit of fun with ramp druid right now, but I took out both the wild growths and replaced them with a healbot and loatheb because the growths honestly weren't doing that much for me, and innervate is good enough as a ramp. The only really difficult matchup is handlock, because not having two combos means you have to trade with mountain giants and drakes for a long time til you draw what you need, and ancient watchers can be a real pain. Swipe and Wrath are pretty poor removals against their minions, you can't liberally use keepers to silence drakes because of sylvanas, sludge belchers don't do as much as in other matchups because it can't trade with anything, and you can't go for face with your bigger bodies because if you get 2x molten giants followed by jaraxxus you basically lose.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Yeah, I love wrecking handlocks. Especially after getting to legend twice and hitting 500 wins with undertaker priest. My mech druid is undefeated against them. Those turn 5 wins are so good.

I was playing Control Paladin up against this one Handlock.

Turn 2 Token.
Turn 3 Muster.
Turn 4 Minibot + Token
Turn 5 Quartermaster buffs 5 tokens. All of them hit face.

He's down to 4 hp. By this time, the only thing he had done was Ancient Watcher and Twilight Drake. He didn't have a Shadowflame or Hellfire so he just got screwed. So he plays Mountain, Molten, and sunfuries the two giants.

Turn 5 Humility + kodo, kills one of the giants.

And he conceded right there.
 
warrior_defeat.png


The power of weapon rogue... can be insane. This was vs a control warrior who harrison'd my first assassin's blade for 3 draws.

But he was was doomed regardless due to the power of prep + sprint (this time I did it twice). I think he had 13-14 hp. He kept hanging on by a thread. If he alex'd or in his case shieldmaiden + armor up, he was doomed.

I made an 8 damage weapon hit face and blade flurried. But I had so much extra mana I played blood sail raider and van cleef just for giggles. VC would have been 10/10 if I didn't have lethal since I would have played it after the blade flurry.

In that turn I put out 21/13 worth of stats off 7ish mana.
 
The Shaman meta is so awful right now. There's no stand-out deck that I can see. Pre-Naxx, Shaman was successful on the back of highly efficient spells, namely, Hex, Lightning Storm, and Lightning Bolt. Backing that up with some Windfury/Rockbiter shenanigans (be it in the form of Al'akir or pre-nerf Leeroy) and you could develop a competent threat. I'd say Crusher Shaman was the most well-known of pre-Naxx Shaman decks, and it was pretty fun to play.

Then Naxxramas dropped, and I feel like aggro decks were significantly buffed. Nerubian Egg, Undertaker, and Haunted Creeper being the major buffs, allowing Zoo and Aggro Hunter to strengthen and as a consequence the relatively slow Shaman decks, lacking any form of healing or efficient card draw, started to weaken. They didn't entirely fall out of favor, but simply were weaker.

Now, in a GvG meta, Shaman really has been hit badly. It isn't so much that Shaman became inherently weaker, but rather, they received so few good class cards compared to other classes that they simply have fallen behind. I mean, look at the list of cards:

Ancestor's Call: Too RNG-based to be worthwhile
Powermace: Average, great in Arena, so far no one has made a great ShaMech deck though
Whirling Zap-o-Matic: Average, but dies too easily. Great in Arena.
Crackle: Good-to-great... one of the only playable Shaman GvG cards.
Vitality Totem: Just doesn't do enough even if it hypothetically shores up one of the weaknesses of Shaman (lack of healing)
Siltfin Spiritwalker: Only playable in Shamurloc decks... which don't work so well, sadly
Dunemaul Shaman: Just bad, straight bad
Neptulon: Actually a decent Legendary... The major problem is that he is so weak to BGH, but just like Dr. Boom, he can overcome that weakness by requiring your opponent to still deal with 4 more cards

So, when I see that list, I see really only 2 or 3 cards worth playing: Crackle for sure, Neptulon possibly, and maybe-just-maybe Powermace if you are trying a ShaMech deck. Every other card is too niche or just outright bad to be used with any consistency.

The thing is, Shaman is my favorite class. It was the first real class I tried to play or deck-build with and is my most-played class to this day, Priest being my secondary. With that said, I've got about 4 Shaman decks I'm playing around with right now, but so far, the most successful one I've found is my Soka Shaman deck:


I don't know how you'd classify this deck and I'm still working on moving things around, but, it has worked pretty well for me so far this season. There are probably two major areas that I'm considering re-working: 1) limited card-draw as all I have is Mana Tide Totem and Bloodmage Thalnos and 2) Feugan, Stalagg, and Baron Rivendare being a bit abnormal.

The card draw hasn't actually been as big of a problem as you might expect. I have enough silence targets in the deck that if they blow a silence on Mana Tide then I usually can make them pay for it later with some other minion... and of course the dream of Mana Tide popping up behind Feral Spirit is pretty much an insta-win if they don't stop it within a turn or so. The major reason card draw isn't a huge issue is because I'm running so many high-value minions. Sylvanas, Dr. Boom, and Neptulon each trade often 2-1, but can get even higher value depending on the board situation, especially if I throw down a Baron Rivendare with Sylvanas or the Boom Bots.

As for Feugan, Stalagg, and Baron... this deck used to be my Shaman Deathrattle deck with some Reincarnate action, but I've since re-arranged it a bit. Now, Stalagg and Feugan still serve as an extra means to buff an Undertaker if I draw it late in the game, but I also find they are decent minions as-is. Baron works with almost 1/3rd of the cards in the deck, so I find he has a decent place. If I drop off the Feugan/Stalagg twins I may consider removing Baron too, but for now, I enjoy having them all there and I'm not sure what I'd replace them for anyway.

Finally, Antique Healbot is the all-time MVP against aggro decks. I found that in the Naxx meta, Shaman would often stabilize against aggro around turn 6-8... but by then, it was too late, and they could burn down your last few HP with Soulfire, Hunter hero power, etc. Now though, if I can pull out that single Healbot, it gives me enough to get back into many matches that would have been long lost without it.

So, I'm enjoying it so far and find it wins more than it loses but there are probably still kinks to iron out. If anyone has any comments I'd be happy to hear them.
 

gutshot

Member
Unless they're the asshole mill druid going around that runs double Naturalize/coldlight/brewmaster. Fucking hate that deck.

Is that the one that runs an assload of heals too? I blame Kripp for making that deck as prevalent on ladder as it is. Really annoying deck to play against.
 

ViviOggi

Member
If you're runnig Sylvanas, Feugen and Stalagg already I'd try to put one Reincarnate back in. Especially the Sylvanas combo is insane for a two-card one.

I haven't seen a single Mill Druid here on EU at around rank 10.
 

Strider

Member
I'm not really all that annoyed when I play against the new Druid deck. While aggro decks can be annoying at times and I've hated some decks in the past like Miracle Rogue... Nothing irritates me like Freeze Mage. That deck sucks all the fun out of the game for me. It was really popular around the time I took a long break last year. Not a coincidence.
 
Is that the one that runs an assload of heals too? I blame Kripp for making that deck as prevalent on ladder as it is. Really annoying deck to play against.

So what's the key in stopping that deck? I've seen it played on stream but I haven't actually went up against it on the ladder yet.
 

Emarv

Member
Is that the one that runs an assload of heals too? I blame Kripp for making that deck as prevalent on ladder as it is. Really annoying deck to play against.
I'm seeing it all the time now. I don't hate it because most don't know how to really use it. I win 90% of the time.
 
I feel like I get the worst luck with card pools and opponents in arena.

Went priest and had a fairly decent deck outside of only seeing 2 holy smite for removal, but was paired up against people with ridiculous decks.

This one opponent had 3 of the +2 attack totems and feral spirits out by turn 4. With plenty of removal to back it up.

I don't want to even get started on the insane undertaker opening this other player had...
 
Just won a druid vs druid constructed match where both me and my opponent ran out of cards and minions completely. The match devolved into a slapfight between hero powers and fatigue damage that I won eventually. Things I learned: playing wild growth at 10 mana gives you an excess mana card (draw 1 card for 0 mana), but innervate does not. Also, fatigue damage gets bigger with each passing turn.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
The Shaman meta is so awful right now. There's no stand-out deck that I can see. Pre-Naxx, Shaman was successful on the back of highly efficient spells, namely, Hex, Lightning Storm, and Lightning Bolt. Backing that up with some Windfury/Rockbiter shenanigans (be it in the form of Al'akir or pre-nerf Leeroy) and you could develop a competent threat. I'd say Crusher Shaman was the most well-known of pre-Naxx Shaman decks, and it was pretty fun to play...

Nerubian Egg is amazing in Shaman (unless you're facing an endless pool of druids), you're crazy for not running it. Between FTT and Rockbiter you can take out a Belcher or any other X/5 minion and get a 6/4 back, as well as buff a second minion to 2+ attack (can finish off a Belcher with a regular totem).

Second the Reincarate + Sylvanas comment. Do you want to beat control Paladins and control Warriors? This combo wins you those matches, bar-none. I don't think I've ever lost to a Paladin or Control Warrior as Shaman, when I've drawn that combo and my hexes and silences. The games run to fatigue a lot, and getting 3:1 (or more) out of Sylvanas is just impossible to recover from.

I'm not running the wolves anymore, actually overload 2 is something I try to avoid entirely. Sets me back a whole turn usually. Dr Boom works great with undertaker (if you don't get to play Undertaker early), so do the eggs, and thanos and other cards. Undertaker works pretty well for drawing silences away from the MTT too.

I'd remove S&F and probably put in a Fire Elemental and Bloodlust, but that's just me. I like to have some way to punish my opponent for letting me amass a full set of 0/2 totems and a couple other creatures, which happens more frequently than I really expect, and Bloodlust works as an additional activator for the Eggs if you need to drop your Rockbiter and FTTs earlier. Doom Hammer is better in the mirror, but I find Bloodlust to be undervalued, and even if I only have 2 minions on board, it is still giving +6 attack in a crunch (ideally there'd be 3+ though).
 

ViviOggi

Member
I feel like I get the worst luck with card pools and opponents in arena.

Went priest and had a fairly decent deck outside of only seeing 2 holy smite for removal, but was paired up against people with ridiculous decks.

This one opponent had 3 of the +2 attack totems and feral spirits out by turn 4. With plenty of removal to back it up.

I don't want to even get started on the insane undertaker opening this other player had...

He played a naked Flametongue? U wot m8
 
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