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Hearthstone |OT2| Created by Unstable Portal

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V

ViviOggi

Member
Ultra / turn 3 Gallywix / fuck arena tier:
Mage

High tier:
Paladin
Warlock
Druid

Mid tier:
Priest
Hunter
Shaman

Low tier:
Rogue

Please take my gold Blizz tier:
Warrior

(Hunter arguably high tier at the moment, I just avoid drafting it because of bad experiences in the past)

Mobius and pet octopus said:
That said, any class can build a really strong arena deck so I don't think the ranking is even that important. You just have to be good at drafting.
Click to expand...
It's about consistency, i.e. mainly how many op commons a class features, and flexibility in game plan. A master drafter will get fucked over by rng much more often building Priest/Shaman as opposed to Mage/Paladin.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
My arena tier:

Mage
Paladin
Priest = Shaman
Rogue = Druid = Hunter
Warlock
Warrior
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
My Arena tier list:

God Tier:

Mage


Top Tier:

Paladin
Priest (I rank Paladin as above Priest overall but Priest is overall still 3rd)


High Tier

Shaman
Hunter


Mid Tier

Rogue
Druid
Warlock


Low/Shit Tier

Warrior



People severely underestimate Priest in Arena. They have probably the strongest match up against Mages and they have the strongest turn 3 plays along with great late game potential. If they have a 1 drop and they end up Velen Chosening it then you usually have already lost the game by that time.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
ViviOggi said:
It's about consistency, i.e. mainly how many op commons a class features, and flexibility in game plan. A master drafter will get fucked over by rng much more often building Priest/Shaman as opposed to Mage/Paladin.
Click to expand...

Even average draft picks of "worse" classes can still get really far. I think the inconsistency is not as huge as people think, but rather people aren't drafting well when not given optimal choices.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Nah the quality of the common class cards a class has is still very important. Like if Priests had Lightbomb as a common card they would be ranked higher than what most people have on their lists.


I also think that Hero power has a big influence in Arena. Mage has the best Arena power by far on top of having a crap ton of good common class cards.


Look at the top 8 commons from each class:

Mages:

Frost Elemental
Fireball
Polymorph
Frostbolt
Snow Chugger
Flamestrike
Mana Wyrm



Paladin

Hammer of Wrath
Consecrate
Truesilver Champion
Shielded Minibot
Argent Protector
Guardian of Kings
Blessing of Kings
Avenge


Priest

Holy Nova
Shrink Meister
Power Word Shield
Shadow Words
Mind Control
Velen's Chosen
Dark Cultist
Temple Enforcer



These cards are godlike.


Now look at Warrior's commons (and realize that his hero power sucks for Arena):

Execute
Fiery War Axe
Arathi Weaponsmith
Korkron Elite
Death's Bite
Slam
Cleave


That's really about it and only 3-4 of those I would consider to be truly great cards. I can't even come up with a top 8 Arena card list for Warrior that competes with the other 3 and the other 3 also have other cards that I didn't even list.


The real issue is that Mage/Paladin/Priest got more Arena cards from GvG where as Warrior didn't. Their last good Arena addition was Death's Bite, since then they have not received a GvG buff where as every other class has received a GvG buff.
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
Warrior best tier but hard to play. Mage is probably better in a vacuum but everyone's used at playing against it. Warrior is like ez mode because ppl don't know what to expect and then suddendly they ded.

Fiery Win Axe ez game.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Yeah people have gotten so good at playing around Mage that Mages still dominate the 6+ win zone.

And forgot to mention Flamecannon for Mages but I think I got the point across. When GvG came out they got quite a few very good cards for Arena.
 
Fixed1979

Fixed1979

Member
G.ZZZ said:
Warrior best tier but hard to play. Mage is probably better in a vacuum but everyone's used at playing against it. Warrior is like ez mode because ppl don't know what to expect and then suddendly they ded.

Fiery Win Axe ez game.
Click to expand...

If I meet a warrior past 4 wins, I expect a virtual fuckton of weapons...
 
Golgo 13

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
G.ZZZ said:
Warrior best tier but hard to play. Mage is probably better in a vacuum but everyone's used at playing against it. Warrior is like ez mode because ppl don't know what to expect and then suddendly they ded.

Fiery Win Axe ez game.
Click to expand...
Depends on the skill/experience level of everyone involved. Right now, Warrior is near the bottom of the meta in Mid to High skill ranges. Against people in practice or at rank 18, sure. But anything goes here.
 
S

Special C

Member
G.ZZZ said:
Warrior best tier but hard to play. Mage is probably better in a vacuum but everyone's used at playing against it. Warrior is like ez mode because ppl don't know what to expect and then suddendly they ded.

Fiery Win Axe ez game.
Click to expand...

I still think Warrior is trash tier in Arena, but Fiery Win Axe is probably the best 2 drop in the entire game. Arena or otherwise.
 
Fixed1979

Fixed1979

Member
johnsmith said:
I think shielded minibot is just as good.
Click to expand...


SM is a really good 2 drop, but it obviously completely depends on the board. Against a 2/3 or better the FWA is obviously the better choice, against a shielded minion or a 3/2 drop I'll take the SM. Two of the top 2 drops in the game without a doubt.
 
C

CarbonatedFalcon

Member
Yeah I don't think Warrior even cares about GvG cards at all except maybe Bomb Lobber or Sneed's. Possibly the Shrdder/Sky Golem.

Besides Dr. Balanced which is in every deck of course - easily could slot another legendary in its place. You already have to make a couple decisions there.

The Warrior class cards GvG added were pretty shit. Control has essentially been the same since Naxx.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
You guys are mixing up constructed & arena, entirely different beasts

CarbonatedFalcon said:
Yeah I don't think Warrior even cares about GvG cards at all except maybe Bomb Lobber or Sneed's. Possibly the Shrdder/Sky Golem.

Besides Dr. Balanced which is in every deck of course - easily could slot another legendary in its place. You already have to make a couple decisions there.

The Warrior class cards GvG added were pretty shit. Control has essentially been the same since Naxx.
Click to expand...
Shieldmaiden alone was HUGE for CW
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
It has been a while (basically a month since the UT nerf) and I haven't updated my rogue deck enough to warrant posting. But since the oil rogue popularity I have made basically 1 major change to the list, instead of messing around with BGH (who never shows up on time anyway) sabotage (good against mainly warrior), the oil rogue has convinced me that 2x sap is still really strong. People were actually questioning whether sap would be worth running post-gvg after miracle died off, but now we have the answer - yes.

Other choices I made were, instead of running shade of naxxramas (another card primarily included for warrior - yes I was running rogue in a heavy warrior meta if you remember) just gonna keep van cleef. Most rogue lists are not opting for van cleef, but I think he is particularly strong in this deck. I still think turn 7 prep + sprint + into 6/6 van cleef is really good.

Next, Gallywix. Now that oil rogues are not running auctioneer, I think he is pretty great. He is questionable against freeze mage but I feel very good in every other match up. Just keep in mind for decks with a lot of burn (burn decks are not really being ran high ranks), sometimes he is a very risky play.

You'll probably notice I am not running fan of knives in this version. But you can trade these cards in depending on what you're facing. More aggro + paladin, and you'll probably want to do just that. Spell power (+sometimes prep) + fan of knives is really good against aggro. But it isn't a totally necessity since there are backstabs + eviscerate + Si7 agent, which can stop your opponent from reaching those board states in the first place. And then there is still double blade flurry (with barber, thalnos/drake, deadlypoison, sword oil) if things get out of hand.

Lastly is the non-inclusion of southsea deckhand aka haha. I think it is a solid card you could swap in. It is a bit like having an extra removal vs aggro and a bit more face damage/sword oil enabler in other match ups, so it is a decent midrange card.

Official name of version = Oil Trade Princess
roguegvg_v6.png
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Maybe it's just me since I'm scrub tier compared to most of your ranks, but when I play regular (non arena mode) I really have no problem with rogue or warrior. Then again I always run 2 swamp ooze.

Mage generally auto fucks me unless I'm also mage. I also tend to have issues with druids.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Wow... the power of gallywix just blew my mind. I guess this priest doesn't have or doesn't run shadow word death...

I was... kinda behind on board but then I placed a gallywix down.

So I got a powerword shield, shadow madness, circle of healing and a holy smite... all off gallywix over 2 turns. He was trying to burn my field down with pyromancer combos. My gallywix was unkillable due to having 10 hp, buffed by powerword shield.

My next turn I played shadow madness on his dark cultist, ran into injured blademaster, buffing gallywix's hp. Which also allowed me to easily combo si7 agent to remove another minion and gallywix finally cleaned up his northshire cleric that had 8 max hp with help from holy smite.

Next turn he played a dr. boom. I played violet teacher, backstab on dr. boom, killed a bot with si7 agent, the bomb hits violet teacher (awesome) DR hit, killed dr. boom with my still massive gallywix, circle of healing to bring everything back to full hp (gallywix is around 5/7 again), and play loatheb.

That was insane gallywix value, because remember that every spell I played after violet teacher also spawned me a 1/1, which is just like undertaker except spread out across multiple minions.
 
Golgo 13

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
Why do no Warrior control decks use Gorehowl? I know it's expensive, but shit, warriors live in rounds 7+. I just constructed it and am going to give it a go. I just find myself, especially late game, short on minions with like 15-20 armor, just sitting there, waiting for Alex or Grommash to drop (usually Grom). I traded it for slam, we'll see how it goes.
 
J

johnsmith

remember me
Golgo 13 said:
Why do no Warrior control decks use Gorehowl? I know it's expensive, but shit, warriors live in rounds 7+. I just constructed it and am going to give it a go. I just find myself, especially late game, short on minions with like 15-20 armor, just sitting there, waiting for Alex or Grommash to drop (usually Grom). I traded it for slam, we'll see how it goes.
Click to expand...

Because the meta is mostly aggro right now. Gorehowl becomes better when the meta is more midrange/control.
 
R

Rapstah

Member
Golgo 13 said:
Why do no Warrior control decks use Gorehowl? I know it's expensive, but shit, warriors live in rounds 7+. I just constructed it and am going to give it a go. I just find myself, especially late game, short on minions with like 15-20 armor, just sitting there, waiting for Alex or Grommash to drop (usually Grom). I traded it for slam, we'll see how it goes.
Click to expand...

I've seen people use it. I don't think it should take the place of a Shield Slam, though. Maybe replace a Death's Bite? You get one less Grom activation, but theoretically 7 extra damage is fine too. Control Warrior runs two Death's Bite, right?
 
Golgo 13

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
Rapstah said:
I've seen people use it. I don't think it should take the place of a Shield Slam, though. Maybe replace a Death's Bite? You get one less Grom activation, but theoretically 7 extra damage is fine too. Control Warrior runs two Death's Bite, right?
Click to expand...
Yeah. That extra whirlwind effect on deaths bite is really valuable though for control. I may miss Slam, but of all the cards I think could be replaced, that was the one.
 
E

egruntz

shelaughz
I've been running Crush x1 in my Control Warrior deck. Extremely useful against Tirion, Sunwalkers, and so forth, and entirely easy to consistently play for its 3 mana cost. That's where Control Warrior shines; Execute, Shield Slam, and Crush allow Warrior to remove big drops for a much lesser mana cost, which allows them to swing tempo at a moment's notice, when they've finally reached late game.

Probably my favorite deck to play, despite common complaints that it's "boring to watch" and "hardly sees variations." I wouldn't really say that. Iron Juggernaut is in mine. Alexstraaza + IJ follow up is extremely effective, on top of Gromash and Ragnaros following after.

I haven't decided what is better: x2 Shield Block and x1 Shieldmaiden, or x1 Shield Block and x2 Shieldmaiden. Still testing around.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
egruntz said:
I haven't decided what is better: x2 Shield Block and x1 Shieldmaiden, or x1 Shield Block and x2 Shieldmaiden. Still testing around.
Click to expand...

Depends on the meta. Aggro=Shield Block. Control=Shieldmaiden.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
Golgo 13 said:
Yeah. That extra whirlwind effect on deaths bite is really valuable though for control. I may miss Slam, but of all the cards I think could be replaced, that was the one.
Click to expand...
Yeah two Death's Bites are essential to survive long enough to play Gorehowl in the first place. Slam is always one of the first cards to replace (unless we're talking Shield Slam)

egruntz said:
I've been running Crush x1 in my Control Warrior deck. Extremely useful against Tirion, Sunwalkers, and so forth, and entirely easy to consistently play for its 3 mana cost. That's where Control Warrior shines; Execute, Shield Slam, and Crush allow Warrior to remove big drops for a much lesser mana cost, which allows them to swing tempo at a moment's notice, when they've finally reached late game.

Probably my favorite deck to play, despite common complaints that it's "boring to watch" and "hardly sees variations." I wouldn't really say that. Iron Juggernaut is in mine. Alexstraaza + IJ follow up is extremely effective, on top of Gromash and Ragnaros following after.

I haven't decided what is better: x2 Shield Block and x1 Shieldmaiden, or x1 Shield Block and x2 Shieldmaiden. Still testing around.
Click to expand...
Two Maidens for sure
 
Golgo 13

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
egruntz said:
I've been running Crush x1 in my Control Warrior deck. Extremely useful against Tirion, Sunwalkers, and so forth, and entirely easy to consistently play for its 3 mana cost. That's where Control Warrior shines; Execute, Shield Slam, and Crush allow Warrior to remove big drops for a much lesser mana cost, which allows them to swing tempo at a moment's notice, when they've finally reached late game.

Probably my favorite deck to play, despite common complaints that it's "boring to watch" and "hardly sees variations." I wouldn't really say that. Iron Juggernaut is in mine. Alexstraaza + IJ follow up is extremely effective, on top of Gromash and Ragnaros following after.

I haven't decided what is better: x2 Shield Block and x1 Shieldmaiden, or x1 Shield Block and x2 Shieldmaiden. Still testing around.
Click to expand...

Does Crushs lower mama cost include hero injury?
 
Golgo 13

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
Rapstah said:
Oh sorry, Slam isn't Shield Slam. Replace Slam.
Click to expand...
Yep. Shield Slam is way too good to replace :)


Anyone ever use that Bouncing Blade thing? Gotta be useful somehow. If you unleash it on a single minion, It's guaranteed removal for 3 Mana.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Gallywix did work even after my opponent stole it with sylvanas. In fact, Gallywix was just a spy ready to sabotage the opponent by giving me free coins to win.

He had 17 hp and all I had was a weapon equipped.

I go deadly poison, deadly poison, sword oil = 8 attack weapon, hit face, blade flurry = 16 damage. 0 mana left over. 1 blade flurry in hand, 1 circle of does nothing.

I got 4 coins from it though. So I use all the coins, weapon up, and blade flurry for the extra 1 damage. That was INSANE.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Golgo 13 said:
Yep. Shield Slam is way too good to replace :)

Anyone ever use that Bouncing Blade thing? Gotta be useful somehow. If you unleash it on a single minion, It's guaranteed removal for 3 Mana.
Click to expand...

Bouncing Blade is way too situational. If you have an empty board and your opponent has 1 strong minion or two large but equally strong minions it is good. Any other time it can backfire or do too little.
 
C

CarbonatedFalcon

Member
Generally I believe you run Gorehowl in place of a Baron Geddon. I run neither right now (have a Gorehowl, no Geddon), but my deck is greedier.

Kinda weak to everything but Rogue and Freeze Mage in the current meta, which doesn't make it worth running all that much.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Geddon is basically a requirement for Warriors to have a form of AOE clear. If not you risk getting overrun by low cost minions unless you happen to run double Brawls.


With Deathbites and other various forms of removal, Gorehowl isn't really a requirement in a very aggressive meta. It can help in some match ups but overall it's a bit too slow with the way people are playing their decks these days.

Bouncing Blade is also not that good in the current meta. IMO the most value you can get out of BB is if there are two strong minions and you whittle down one of them to very low health and outright kill the other. This situation doesn't present itself enough these days when people are playing a bunch of 1-2 health minions that quickly absorb the BB and the bigger creatures are spared.
 
S

Super Nothing

Member
Haunted said:
Bouncing Blade is awesome
Click to expand...

To be fair, that was a shitty time to use it. Bouncing Blade is meant for when the other guy has a single big minion and you have nothing, or if you have a ton of minions out including Armorsmith and/or Frothing Berserker. Using it on a board with a bunch of one health minions is just throwing it away. It is kind of situational, though, and hard to justify over Shield Slam, Execute, and/or Crush. I had to laugh at a Warrior the other day who played Bouncing Blade when I had two minions on board, a Druid of the Claw (Bear) and an Ancient of Lore, both full health. The Blade hit the Ancient of Lore 5 consecutive times without touching the DotC forcing him to use his Fiery War Axe to set up the Execute on the surviving minion. Normally that would be a pretty good combo.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Mobius and pet octopus said:
After watching that again.... I just cannot even believe he chose to take that risk in the first place. Execute on the KJ after injuring with the wisp was the right play there... every time.
Click to expand...

Bouncing Blade not going to get much value against Face Hunter and he values his executes a little more highly. He only had a 1/6 chance to backfire.
 
E

egruntz

shelaughz
Golgo 13 said:
Does Crushs lower mama cost include hero injury?
Click to expand...

Lol no. It may as well permanently be 3 mana cost at that point. Not much of a restriction.

With x2 Death's Bite, x2 Cruel Taskmaster, and high-health minions in general, it's easy enough to use Crush at limited cost. Using it as 7 mana on a 7+ drop, anyway, isn't exactly bad. Keeps stall in your favor and lets you get closer to the late game.

x2 Shieldblock and x1 Shieldmaiden has been working out nicely for me. I think the card draw is super important for Control Warrior. Shield Block + Shield Slam + 6 Drop is also a great combo in a single turn.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
ZealousD said:
Bouncing Blade not going to get much value against Face Hunter and he values his executes a little more highly. He only had a 1/6 chance to backfire.
Click to expand...

Looking at his hand and the expected board state, he would have had 0 ways to activate execute other than using his face and in that situation he is committing more resources than bouncing blades would have taken. Then he drew acolyte. Bouncing blades would have been best long term imo. I mean, granted the deck looks like shit - but there is no doubt in my mind execute was better to use rather than save. Guaranteed board clear from bouncing blades for any big guys he drops, axe for any small ones.
 
Golgo 13

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
What a dumbass. I thought you could attack heroes with gorehowl (you can, but it breaks instantly). I was like "why aren't more people using this?". There's one reason.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Golgo 13 said:
What a dumbass. I thought you could attack heroes with gorehowl (you can, but it breaks instantly). I was like "why aren't more people using this?". There's one reason.
Click to expand...

7 damage for 7 mana is pretty good for warriors though, oddly enough. When charge, the warrior spell, cost 0 mana (it only gave charge no attack buff), the tactic was to equip gorehowl 1 turn, use alexstrasza to set opponent's hp to 15, use charge on alex, and hit face for exactly 15. It was basically an OTK.

Nowadays, gorehowl is still used sometimes to finish off an opponent, like in conjunction with rag or gromm. Its still pretty good for a nice smack even if its not cheap like fireball.
 
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