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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Having tons of fun atm with my slow hunter deck.Nobody expect hunters to trade for board control.
How do you do against secret paladins trading? i completely gave up trying to kill the majority of their stuff in favor of face hugging, outside of the occasional knife juggler i'd aim for.
IMO the following changes have to be made in the future sometime:
*FON + SR combo nerfed. FoN should spawn minions that can't attack face (so it's a board control tool). This combo really limits what Druids can play as far as deck choices go.
*Shredder nerfed from 4/3 to 3/3 (still a good value minion but this makes it less likely to trade up and do more face damage). This card limits the design space of BOTH 2 drops AND 4 drops.
*Mysterious Challenger nerfed. Probably make it a 6/4 to be honest so it remains in BGH range after Competitive Spirit/Avenge.
*Knife Juggler changed from 3/2 to 2/2 so it becomes less of an offensive minion.
*Living Roots just like Wrath shouldn't be able to hit face (they actually changed Wrath from being hit face to not being hit face in Beta).
*Mad Scientist should either be a 3 drop or a 1/2 minion at 2 mana. This card limits the design space for future secrets.
*They need to do something about Void Caller eventually because that card 100% limits the design space for future demons. Getting a 9/7 as a deathrattle from Void Caller is extreme.
*Implosion RNG needs to be looked at because it's a joke.
*Last but not least... Dr Balanced should really just be a 8 mana minion just so that aggressive decks have to think twice about running it.
*FON + SR combo nerfed. FoN should spawn minions that can't attack face (so it's a board control tool). This combo really limits what Druids can play as far as deck choices go.
*Shredder nerfed from 4/3 to 3/3 (still a good value minion but this makes it less likely to trade up and do more face damage). This card limits the design space of BOTH 2 drops AND 4 drops.
*Mysterious Challenger nerfed. Probably make it a 6/4 to be honest so it remains in BGH range after Competitive Spirit/Avenge.
*Knife Juggler changed from 3/2 to 2/2 so it becomes less of an offensive minion.
*Living Roots just like Wrath shouldn't be able to hit face (they actually changed Wrath from being hit face to not being hit face in Beta).
*Mad Scientist should either be a 3 drop or a 1/2 minion at 2 mana. This card limits the design space for future secrets.
*They need to do something about Void Caller eventually because that card 100% limits the design space for future demons. Getting a 9/7 as a deathrattle from Void Caller is extreme.
*Implosion RNG needs to be looked at because it's a joke.
*Last but not least... Dr Balanced should really just be a 8 mana minion just so that aggressive decks have to think twice about running it.
The aggro/tempo game will always exist. It's a solid archetype. Just like face and control decks will always exist. But secret paladin pushes it in a direction that hasn't been seen since Week 1 Naxxramas. When spider zoo was fucking EVERYWHERE.
It's true that it's going to be a problem that will get worse over time, even if MC is nerfed. Every powerful sticky/dirty minion they add to the game will contribute to this problem. Haunted Creeper. Shielded Minibot. Piloted Shredder. Mad Scientist. Living Roots. Muster for Battle. Argent Horserider. Imp Gang Boss. Every time you make these dirty minions the strongest pound-for-pound drop in their slot it exacerbates the problem because nothing punishes sticky right now except going faster than the sticky decks. Board clears, weapons, and removal spells only deal with clean minions with solid stats. Silence doesn't punish sticky either, it just awkwardly reduces their impact.
Trigger_happy
Member
I don't think Blizzard cares about Voidcaller considering that Bane of doom and Ram wrangler exist.
BigJonsson
Member
Just don't nerf MC until I get to play it with my new Tirion for a month or so
Druid can't survive without FoN+Savage Roar as a finisher. The only archetype that remains after removing the combo is Ramp Druid, which isn't good enough right now. It's almost Shaman tier.
I generally prefer Shredder being a 4/2 to a 3/3. That more closely mirrors Piloted Sky Golem and people don't consider that card problematic despite its similarly to Highmane. Stuff that pops should have more attack than health because you want to make these cards easy to pop. It prevents the cards from being too slow and gives you more options to deal with them.
That really doesn't do enough imo. I hate the design of vomiting stuff from your deck onto the board. It should basically not exist, but if it must remain in the game, cut it down to two secrets and make it a 6/5 or 5/5 or something.
The stats have almost nothing to do with why the card is as strong as it is. People hate playing it on curve anyway. I don't think Knife Juggler is really all that problematic. It's dirty vomit minion cards like Muster for Battle, UTH, and Implosion that are the problem. Remove those and Knife Juggler only finds its way in token and zoo decks.
I used to be on the 3 mana train but something I really don't like about this card is the fact that its power level changes based on what class it is in. It is balanced in Paladin but not Hunter or Mage. If you make it 3 mana then it basically turns into a Mage-only card.
Secrets should be played from your hand. it needs to be a strategic decision so you can use secrets to bluff or use them proactively like Loatheb to block your opponent's next move. That's way more fun than just having secrets pulled from your deck while you give two shits about what it ends up doing because whatever it does is basically okay value. Make it a 2/2 that just draws a secret from your deck. Then it becomes a situational cantrip that encourages a secret strategy without forcing it. And then its power would be the same in every class. And then you might actually run more than 2 or 3 secrets in that kind of deck.
Lets be honest. If Blizzard is okay with voidcaller pulling out Mal'Ganis now then you can't say it limits future design space. And while I have always said that voidcaller is possibly overpowered its impact wouldn't be nearly as bad if we went back to a meta where people ran BGH again.
Crackle and Implosion should just be straight up removed from the game. The worst kind of RNG.
The game doesn't need more 8 mana minions. It needs to remain in the 7 slot. Make the main body a 7/5. Suddenly it doesn't stack so well in minion trading and it gets punished by Sylvanas. It would be about on par with Baron Geddon which is perfectly fine for a 7 drop.
If Druid can't "survive" without one of two cards then they need to be overhauled.
I would argue that the existence of those two cards makes it so that Blizzard can't really introduce stronger aggressive cards for Druids. They introduced aggressive cards for Druids in TGT since CLASSIC set in TGT and Druid suddenly said "welp time to go yolo aggro and then hope I top dick combo" and got two tier 1 decks.
I would argue that the existence of those two cards makes it so that Blizzard can't really introduce stronger aggressive cards for Druids. They introduced aggressive cards for Druids in TGT since CLASSIC set in TGT and Druid suddenly said "welp time to go yolo aggro and then hope I top dick combo" and got two tier 1 decks.
I've suggested that Blizzard needs to start wiping slates clean and create ban lists and legacy formats starting with the next major expansion but everytime I do that people are like NO STOP DONT DELETE THE CARDS BLIZZARD WILL NEVER DELETE CARDS THERE WILL BE RIOTS.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Blizzard effectively deleted Warsong Commander.
May it RIP with Buzzard.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Mad scientist might still be played at 3 mana in hunter, might not. I don't play the class enough to know. I just don't think mad scientist needs to be nerfed at all tbh. If it is nerfed, I'd think a stat nerf is most appropriate, not mana cost. 2 mana, like someone mentioned, makes it so it is at a cost where it is reasonable to be played by each class that runs secrets. It already sucks in paladin. Its good in mage and hunter, and mileage really varies based on what decks you're playing against. Sometimes the mileage is a little too much, so I think knocking it to a 1/2 or a 2/1 seems fine. If it were my decision, I'd keep it as it is though.
MC could limit secrets to 3 or be a 9-10 stat minion or both. Keeping it at 6 attack just so you can bgh it after competitive spirit... really? No thanks. Avenge is gonna make it bgh'able regardless. I don't think they're going to nerf the deck anytime soon though. They just have quite a high threshold for nerfing cards based on strength.
Tempo and aggro decks are fine in the game right now. I think secret paladin is arguably the only deck that might need changes in the future.
I feel like control priest and control warrior are not in a bad spot right now. Control paladin, on the other hand... I think its worst match up is actually druid and not aggro druid but midrange druid. They just have almost zero answers for a turn 2 aspirant. I guess it might not be too bad. Paladin is a class that doesn't have access to spot removal like priest and warrior do, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. But having to rely on weapons alone or knife juggler (this card can DIAF for all I care), isn't the worst spot to be in... except when you have too many of them.
Ramp druid... while not popular these days, I do still see some of them. The KT builds are what intrigue me the most because I love running that card in paladin. And control mage I am not too familiar with but mage has gotten arcane blast which seems like it would be a great asset to the style of decks.
So this month will be the first season start with patron warrior nerfed. People (like myself) probably did a lot of testing of new decks to run. I think there is a good chance we'll see some new things cropping up.
MC could limit secrets to 3 or be a 9-10 stat minion or both. Keeping it at 6 attack just so you can bgh it after competitive spirit... really? No thanks. Avenge is gonna make it bgh'able regardless. I don't think they're going to nerf the deck anytime soon though. They just have quite a high threshold for nerfing cards based on strength.
Tempo and aggro decks are fine in the game right now. I think secret paladin is arguably the only deck that might need changes in the future.
I feel like control priest and control warrior are not in a bad spot right now. Control paladin, on the other hand... I think its worst match up is actually druid and not aggro druid but midrange druid. They just have almost zero answers for a turn 2 aspirant. I guess it might not be too bad. Paladin is a class that doesn't have access to spot removal like priest and warrior do, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. But having to rely on weapons alone or knife juggler (this card can DIAF for all I care), isn't the worst spot to be in... except when you have too many of them.
Ramp druid... while not popular these days, I do still see some of them. The KT builds are what intrigue me the most because I love running that card in paladin. And control mage I am not too familiar with but mage has gotten arcane blast which seems like it would be a great asset to the style of decks.
So this month will be the first season start with patron warrior nerfed. People (like myself) probably did a lot of testing of new decks to run. I think there is a good chance we'll see some new things cropping up.
AYY LMAO!
Warsong Commander is the only card post beta that Blizzard has straight up deleted in terms of the base special effect being completely gone. Gadgetan, Undertaker, Leeroy, Soul Fire still remain as less strong versions of their former selves. Like you can still play a lesser version of Miracle Rogue now... but you can't play the classic Grim Patron deck again.
The nerf was radical even by Blizzard standards.
Buzzard is at least usable when you get it out of Ram Wrangler or webspinner, you wouldn't even want to get warsong out of unstable portal unless you played some weird charge-face mage deck.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Technically it is better than getting a river crocalisk or pretty much any 1 drop.
unstable portal: wildwalker, knight of the wild, houndmaster, ram wrangler, buzzard, rhino, hyena, king of beasts, stablemaster, timber wolf
Spellslinger/Saraad: Kill Command, Bestial Wrath.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
How is kripp bad at smorc hunter?
He's playing Mech Hunter (and without Metaltooth Tiger too). He doesn't have Kill Commands or any good burns in the deck so he has to go for board control.
Mages already have Fireball. They don't need Kill Command.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
There is a time where any hunter deck is gonna smorc. Doesn't matter if he has KC or not. When you have board initiative, spending valuable damage to remove weak minions like the guy had actually gave his opponent a chance to get back in.
edit:
DyslexicAlucard
Member
I love you, Control Warrior! Have my babies! XD
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Holy fuck Kripp is bad at mech mage too. He had an easy turn 3 clockwork gnome, coin, tinkertown technician. Instead he plays clockwork gnome and then an acidic ooze. The ooze gets taken out by keeper of the grove's choose damage, something a good player would have played around just by playing the bigger minion. And then for some stupid reason he plays a coin + clockwork knight on his gnome, which of course gets taken out easily by the 2/4 that is already on the board. And krip goes on complaining about his opponent is just a good player who just happens to be starting his ladder run right now... PogChamp.
edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxYaOaT16yk&t=61m0s
purple vs neirea showing off rogue strength vs secret paladin.
edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxYaOaT16yk&t=61m0s
purple vs neirea showing off rogue strength vs secret paladin.
bronkonagurski
Member
FeelsBadMan.
bronkonagurski
Member
I actually have hit Rank 13 on my free account. Playing a fairly basic Paladin deck and getting by.
toddhunter
Member
Good list, but I also think blood knight needs a rework. Make the effect a +1/+1 but make it a 3/4 or something to make it a strong option.
This will nerf paladin if people choose to play it.
Yeah the game could use better Divine Shield counters, same as more Deathrattle counters.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Rank 5
Trigger_happy
Member
I would craft Sylvanas, i don't think Toshley is used in mech mage currently.
I would craft Trion then spend next 800 dust on Mysterious Challenger.
Craft a fun Legendary like Malygos!
BananasWithGuns
Member
Wow, just lost to a Hunter using Oasis Snapjaws because of bullshit RNG.
Won both jousts off Elekk which gave King Krush and Ram Wrangler. Ram Wrangler gave King Krush.
Why do I bother with this game again?
Won both jousts off Elekk which gave King Krush and Ram Wrangler. Ram Wrangler gave King Krush.
Why do I bother with this game again?
irfaanator
Banned
b/c that was better than playing against secret paladin
phoenix296
Member
Played some constructed tonight. Now I remember why I stick to arena these days.
do it. don't let these complainers stop you.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Beating up on noobs simply cause I hardly played this past season feels so bad :/
Man i suck at secret paladin, I went minibot into minibot into spider into kings into full christmast tree turn 6 and still loose, deck is hard. Kappa.
Edit: nvm, deck is lame had a 3 secrets started hand and still beat an anti agro priest easiest win of my life, 3 win streak with average hands, deck is retard, not playing it anymore.
Edit: nvm, deck is lame had a 3 secrets started hand and still beat an anti agro priest easiest win of my life, 3 win streak with average hands, deck is retard, not playing it anymore.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
My rank 5 epic was the golden cog rogue weapon, aka 400 dust
Haven't played any yet tbh. Did see some midrange ones, but Paladins in general got hardly any reach so it's doable if u get the board control and wear them down slowly. The funny thing with hunter is that u can drag the game out and still got big burst with ur weapon, hero power and kill commands. Dragon Priests is the hardest counter I've played against so far. So many big minions...