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Hearthstone |OT7/7| _ Give Tyrande | _ Blizzard: Give Amazon Money
- Thread starter ZealousD
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I'm down, added!
I don't think I heave ever faced so many players with legend card backs in a single month before. Even at rank 14 there seem to be a crazy number. Is this what it will be like until all the wings of Karazhan are released? This is the first new content that has released since I started playing.
Can we talk about how garbage Arena has become as of late?
Decided to play some Arena because I had some extra gold to spend. Played like 3 runs, 1-3, 4-3, 7-3. The 1-3 run was a Druid deck with a very low curve of really crap minions and bad beast cards like Druid of the Fang.
But every single match played out the same. At any win above 3 I just saw Rogue and Mage, if they went first then they were going to win. The difference between going first and going second has reached a ridiculous critical mass. I would rather play Priest and be allowed to go first every match than go second and play any class.
And class balance is so bad, in the gutter ranks I played only bad classes which all of them had insane decks. If you see a Priest at 1-2 then you should start sweating bullets because the deck might still be good but he probably got unlucky and went against Rogue/Mage who went first.
You feel the difference in turn advantage and class advantage as clear as day, turn after turn. Skill level is also lowered because everyone uses Heartharena so pretty much every deck is at least competent and the main archetype that works in Arena is play on curve. If you are going first as a Mage/Rogue and you get 1/2/3/4 drop, even if they are mediocre drops you win.
Can't believe someone like Kripp plays this garbage 5 hours a day every day. And then you don't play around much because the pool of cards just gets bigger so everyone just brokebacks you and hope you don't have a clear. Not to mention the extreme swings in RNG... at least in Constructed I don't have to deal with people playing Mad Bombers that snipe my 3/2.
Not playing Arena ever again until some major changes are implemented. Absolute clown Fiesta mode (in a bad way unlike that Lock n Load Hunter game I had yesterday which was a clown fiesta in a good way).
Decided to play some Arena because I had some extra gold to spend. Played like 3 runs, 1-3, 4-3, 7-3. The 1-3 run was a Druid deck with a very low curve of really crap minions and bad beast cards like Druid of the Fang.
But every single match played out the same. At any win above 3 I just saw Rogue and Mage, if they went first then they were going to win. The difference between going first and going second has reached a ridiculous critical mass. I would rather play Priest and be allowed to go first every match than go second and play any class.
And class balance is so bad, in the gutter ranks I played only bad classes which all of them had insane decks. If you see a Priest at 1-2 then you should start sweating bullets because the deck might still be good but he probably got unlucky and went against Rogue/Mage who went first.
You feel the difference in turn advantage and class advantage as clear as day, turn after turn. Skill level is also lowered because everyone uses Heartharena so pretty much every deck is at least competent and the main archetype that works in Arena is play on curve. If you are going first as a Mage/Rogue and you get 1/2/3/4 drop, even if they are mediocre drops you win.
Can't believe someone like Kripp plays this garbage 5 hours a day every day. And then you don't play around much because the pool of cards just gets bigger so everyone just brokebacks you and hope you don't have a clear. Not to mention the extreme swings in RNG... at least in Constructed I don't have to deal with people playing Mad Bombers that snipe my 3/2.
Not playing Arena ever again until some major changes are implemented. Absolute clown Fiesta mode (in a bad way unlike that Lock n Load Hunter game I had yesterday which was a clown fiesta in a good way).
Karsticles
Member
I was thinking about how Duelyst's battle pet additions are going to be very controversial since they are AI-controlled, but in Hearthstone they would be auto-include because minion combat is so simple.
It doesn't mean anything really, anyone that wanted could play secret paly to legend, doesn't mean they are better players that rank 14 or anything like that.
Well they implemented the chess board, clearly even Blizzard is thinking about printing a card like that in the future.
That would still be a FAR SUPERIOR addition to the game than adding those Ogre cards in GvG. The 3 mana 4/4, the ogre legendary, the Warrior weapon... I hope we never see crap like that again.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
that's true.
As has been discussed many times in these threads. Getting Legend is mostly a matter of time investment (specifically in a single month) and reading the meta and tuning for it.
The time input is first and foremost. The rest is mostly optional. As long as the deck is strong enough to get 50+% then you can get to legend rank with enough work.
The time input is first and foremost. The rest is mostly optional. As long as the deck is strong enough to get 50+% then you can get to legend rank with enough work.
You can go to Wild and get Legend with Secret Paladin.
Most of the try hard players and net deckers are on Standard. On Wild you will see a bunch of home brew and niche decks even at slightly higher ranks. You will get the occasional try hard Hunter/Paladin/Shaman/Zoo player but you can still do fine in the match up.
I think I agree with someone else here... Tempostorm should just never print that Wild meta snapshot list. Anyone who is good knows what the best decks are in Wild but the average net decker/Tempostorm reader wouldn't and will just try to copy what he/she sees online.
THIS is why we can't have nice things.
I actually have fun in Wild... until someone throws down Dr Balanced on turn 7.
Most of the try hard players and net deckers are on Standard. On Wild you will see a bunch of home brew and niche decks even at slightly higher ranks. You will get the occasional try hard Hunter/Paladin/Shaman/Zoo player but you can still do fine in the match up.
I think I agree with someone else here... Tempostorm should just never print that Wild meta snapshot list. Anyone who is good knows what the best decks are in Wild but the average net decker/Tempostorm reader wouldn't and will just try to copy what he/she sees online.
THIS is why we can't have nice things.
I actually have fun in Wild... until someone throws down Dr Balanced on turn 7.
irfaanator
Banned
honestly this is kinda why i get salty right now at HS, not due to the randomness but having to deal with on curve shit all the time. Worst offender being hunter.
Hunter about to go from 2nd worst class to probably top 4 when they get their god 2/3 drops from Karazhan in Arena and the bonuses are implemented. You don't need to be ADWCTA to know this.
I know I maybe salty but I actually had fun in Constructed this week trying out new decks. I also did pretty well win rate wise. The first Wing ended up being better than I expected.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The amount of times I lost to mech mage is honestly embarrassing.
The amount of times I accidentally played Zoolock in Wild and won is eye opening
dragon warrior curve is the most disgusting honestly, I haven't seen one that doesn't disgustingly top deck either, hardly any dead draws. Warrior has the best charge minions and it's so hard to deal with, with alex champ, they effectively have 4 win axe in the deck too! lol
Once upon a time, SI:7 was considered a crazy 3 drop, deal 2 damage 3/3 woah. Ravaging Ghoul deals way more than 2 damage on average and doesn't need combo! I remember when that card was revealed some of pros were saying it's not that good...it's so op.
it's spider tank with 1 mana spell attached for free, no stat penalty! (3/4 damages itself to 3/3!)
Once upon a time, SI:7 was considered a crazy 3 drop, deal 2 damage 3/3 woah. Ravaging Ghoul deals way more than 2 damage on average and doesn't need combo! I remember when that card was revealed some of pros were saying it's not that good...it's so op.
it's spider tank with 1 mana spell attached for free, no stat penalty! (3/4 damages itself to 3/3!)
Mech Mage is a good deck, as are twenty other decks.
You can play a bunch of a Standard decks and get Legend in Wild. Standard decks are actually faster where as Wild decks tend to be stickier. Dragon Warrior would still own in Wild.
FormallyFamicom
Member
I still rather play Arena over constructed despite the bullshit. I enjoy the drafting process and trying to squeeze value out of random cards.
It's not a big gap though. I've played very little Arena or Constructed in the last two months.
It's not a big gap though. I've played very little Arena or Constructed in the last two months.
This is my stance as well. Wild is just more fun these days. Tempostorm will bei messing everything up by printing a Wild snapshot. It will literally turn the meta into Standard. Wild is really crazy atm. I've been laddering there with a very unoptomized Paladin with no secrets and enjoying the misplays as everyone predicts the secret pally match up. Play the tempo game the same as Secret, but include Forbidden Healings, and N'Zoth and you have a ton of power in the late game. I've mostly lost to Priests so far b/c their N'Zoths are stronger and they can entomb mine to play 2. Really a fun meta over there. I should try wild Yogg N Load, I wonder if it works there. Probably well enough at rank 15.
I wonder if Tempostorm realize the amount of power they have over the meta game. I mean what if they just started saying that Control decks were OP? Get Reynad to complain about it on stream for a day or two, and post a meta snapshot with a bunch of control decks in T1/2. Would it just create a control meta right there? I sort of think it would work for a while at least.
Reynad once convinced everyone that Concede Mage was actually tier 1 during the time when Combo Druid, Secret Paladin and Zoolock were tier 1....
Though that was right before the standard rotation and people didn't care much because a big shake up was incoming. But Reynad and co love to throw random decks way up than they should be.
I think if all the streamers and top players colluded to only play control decks and hype them up as the best then it might work. Top streamers already play a disproportionate amount of control decks compared to the actual meta though. Just because Kibler has been stuck at rank 4-5 for the past week with Priest doesn't mean that your average player is going to go and try that Priest deck themselves.
Though that was right before the standard rotation and people didn't care much because a big shake up was incoming. But Reynad and co love to throw random decks way up than they should be.
I think if all the streamers and top players colluded to only play control decks and hype them up as the best then it might work. Top streamers already play a disproportionate amount of control decks compared to the actual meta though. Just because Kibler has been stuck at rank 4-5 for the past week with Priest doesn't mean that your average player is going to go and try that Priest deck themselves.
I remember 2 nights ago when Reynad was playing Maelstrom face shaman while I was playing my Malygos version the meta shifted. In the next hour I played against his exact deck (Maelstrom portal, unbound elemental, face cards) 3 times. I won all 3 times (but lost to a regular aggro shaman lol).
Tempostorm shapes the meta but even if TS decided to try and promote control decks, a majority of players are still going to be playing the cheaper aggro / midrange decks anyway.
There's a reason that 10 of my last 32 matches have been against Hunter--it has only two epics, zero legendaries, it's a cheap, effective deck and it is about as easy as any current deck to pilot.
The only other meta deck as easy is Dragon Warrior, and that is a much more expensive deck.
As long as control cards are epics and legendaries, and the cheaper decks are just as if not more effective anyway, we'll never see a control meta.
There's a reason that 10 of my last 32 matches have been against Hunter--it has only two epics, zero legendaries, it's a cheap, effective deck and it is about as easy as any current deck to pilot.
The only other meta deck as easy is Dragon Warrior, and that is a much more expensive deck.
As long as control cards are epics and legendaries, and the cheaper decks are just as if not more effective anyway, we'll never see a control meta.
LucidMomentum
Member
So I set up the OTK Worgen + Faceless Manipulator combo, but forget that there's two Hunter Secrets on board.
Well, what are the odds it's an explosive trap in Midrange hunter? I've seen them run freezing + bear more often than not.
Use my patron to hit face and hopefully clear the way.
It was Bear and Explosive Traps.
I was dumb enough to put my Worgens at 1 health.
GG.
I like this deck though, it's fun trying to hold out until I get something going.
Well, what are the odds it's an explosive trap in Midrange hunter? I've seen them run freezing + bear more often than not.
Use my patron to hit face and hopefully clear the way.
It was Bear and Explosive Traps.
I was dumb enough to put my Worgens at 1 health.
GG.
I like this deck though, it's fun trying to hold out until I get something going.
irfaanator
Banned
he said the deck he was playing was pretty good/ had the potential to be good and people shouldnt judge it yet. Then he hovered around rank 5 and was like im on a losing streak lmao
It's a tough deck to play well. You often have to use combo pieces to stay alive, but obviously can't use too many. You sometimes gave to use different pieces creatively to win. Frothing is a win condition surprisingly often. If patrons survive and you have a frothing, charge, and whirlwind in hand, you probably win.
This makes me happy. OTK Thaurissan combo decks are a scourge and the only reason I'm excited for BRM to rotate out
First step of having a control meta is to have control decks be at least 60% winrate or higher against the other archetypes. Even if control decks were 51% winrate it wouldn't be enough because you are still better off playing an aggro/tempo deck because of cost, time and skill reasons.
Second step is to have good neutral healing. I randomly tuned into Hotform's stream today and he was saying that Ragnaros Lightlord should've been a neutral like the regular Ragnaros. That way you could have a Nzoth Rogue archetype because right now the main reason why that doesn't work is because Rogue can't heal enough to stall until it gets the big stuff.
Second step is to have good neutral healing. I randomly tuned into Hotform's stream today and he was saying that Ragnaros Lightlord should've been a neutral like the regular Ragnaros. That way you could have a Nzoth Rogue archetype because right now the main reason why that doesn't work is because Rogue can't heal enough to stall until it gets the big stuff.
We're not going to see fatigue style control decks with old gods in rotations. As long as N'Zoth and C'thun are around, control decks will be built around those two. I'm not sure how any new cards can change that either, they just killed the fatigue/Elise win condition with those. So have fun with 2 years of this if you're looking for control decks, which are more like midrange decks.
I've spent a ridiculous amount of time on this game over the past two days. I moved on from Druid to Mage, but don't really feel confident with her yet. Like, I never really have a plan with her in the beginning of matches especially, while with the Druid I know exactly what my first few ideal moves are.
Learning the game has been a blast. I'm excited it move on to other classes so I know how to fight them better.
Reading this thread though, it's clear I have a ton to learn. This is my first ever deck building game and there's a ton of jargon I'm behind on.
Learning the game has been a blast. I'm excited it move on to other classes so I know how to fight them better.
Reading this thread though, it's clear I have a ton to learn. This is my first ever deck building game and there's a ton of jargon I'm behind on.
I don't have a problem with Cthun and N'Zoth win conditions for control decks. It's GOOD that Control decks have a win condition like these. It's bad for the game if control decks only win condition is to win in the fatigue.. that's not really healthy for the game.
They can print more control win conditions in the future, that's how they promote more styles of control. Like print a card that gains advantage for every enemy minion you have killed this game. Or a card that grows stronger the longer you stall out the game. They can also print win conditions where it's like Blood of the Ancient One or Voltron (where you need specific minions on the board).. except actually game winning. Or they can print more cards like Jaraxxus (which is the win condition for Handlock/Renolock style decks).
If anything I think Yogg is the biggest problem for control. Play against Token Druid, try to keep clearing their pestering boards and large minions... then when you finally stabilize and build your own board they drop down Yogg, clear your board and gain massive card advantage over you.
Controĺ became dominant is a bit dumb thought tbh.. its really not made the game better.
I much rather if the meta can be around deck like ramp druid or secret hunter.. deck that you calcuating risk èach turn because you wait your swing.
If control deck is very good its not gonna that challengimg if you know you not die or set up win anytime soon... except in control mirror but control mirroor is zzzz
Zoolock vs Zoolock as wè despise aggro is still very demanding mirror match and yet not as boring as control vs control mirror
I much rather if the meta can be around deck like ramp druid or secret hunter.. deck that you calcuating risk èach turn because you wait your swing.
If control deck is very good its not gonna that challengimg if you know you not die or set up win anytime soon... except in control mirror but control mirroor is zzzz
Zoolock vs Zoolock as wè despise aggro is still very demanding mirror match and yet not as boring as control vs control mirror
Definitely want to try to build some Paladin/Hunter N'Zoth decks with Barnes. Getting a 1/1 Sylvanas, Cairne or Tirion would be amazing.
just played some arena today, this does not reflect my experiences in the slightest. i had to wait until turn 4 to have a real play sometimes and i still won those games by knowing my deck and outplaying my opponent.
same. My performance seems unchanged overall. Just a LOT more mages and rogues, but that is probably because everyone used to pick paladin.
FormallyFamicom
Member
Unless something changed this week, when I watched their show last week they said they expected the Karazhan Arena meta to speed up (no more bonuses to Bog Creeper and Psych-o-tron).
They said the meta will be faster than Old Gods.
Which makes sense because stuff like Bog Creeper and Psychotron are going down in rates.
Yeah they mean old gods meta is slower and its will sped up again
but I really don't see this "slow" arena during old gods either is what I mean
The occurence bonus of Old Gods is removed now.
//ARCANUM
Member
So I just had something.... interesting happen.
I played Yoggsaron. It cast a spell that killed opponent's sylvanas, opponent steals my Yogg, the rest of the Yogg spells kept happening.... but happening for my opponent. Is it programmed to do that on purpose? Or is that a glitch? To top it off, the yog then cast a spell on me which dealt lethal damage and killed me... the thing is that I had an ice block on me.... that didn't activate.... so yeah. Is that all correct? Because it seemed bonkers to me.
I played Yoggsaron. It cast a spell that killed opponent's sylvanas, opponent steals my Yogg, the rest of the Yogg spells kept happening.... but happening for my opponent. Is it programmed to do that on purpose? Or is that a glitch? To top it off, the yog then cast a spell on me which dealt lethal damage and killed me... the thing is that I had an ice block on me.... that didn't activate.... so yeah. Is that all correct? Because it seemed bonkers to me.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
secrets only activate during the opponents turn and yes that's the interaction between yogg and sylvanas, considering it hasn't been "fixed" yet it's probably intended that way.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, it's unfortentate that the interaction between Yogg and Sylvanus isn't more apparent, but it is an interesting dynamic for Yogg players to have to respect Sylvanus. Ideally you try not to play Yogg into a Sylvanus if at all possible.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Itps good to have counter play to old gods available, like not playing all your board wipes against a NZoth deck. Playing Sylvanas on an empty board is often the correct play.
LyleLanley
Banned
Unless you're going for a Hail Mary play and your opponent is low on cards in which case you can try to fatigue them with Yoggs card draw.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Or just hope he suicides himself before he kills Sylvanus.
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