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bronkonagurski

bronkonagurski

Member
BananasWithGuns said:
God I can't fucking stand Freeze Mage.

Takes a real piece of shit to play that deck.

No excuse for Alex not being nerfed. Wake the fuck up Blizzard.
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I'd say Freeze Mage and Mill Rogue are the two archetypes that rustle my jimmies the most. I mean w/Freeze Mage I can usually see it coming but w/Mill Rogue I usually realize it too late, basically because I really never expect it.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Good Job Bob said:
What exactly would an Alex nerf look like?
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I can tell you what Alex shouldn't look like. Battlecry: Deal 15 damage to the enemy hero.

It's awful. It's always been awful. But Blizzard loves Mage too much to do anything while they're gutting Druid completely (not that they didn't deserve it mind you).
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Good Job Bob said:
What exactly would an Alex nerf look like?
Click to expand...
Set a character's health to something like 18.

Doesn't have to be a massive nerf like they did with Molten Giants and added 5 more mana to it.

Or they can go the opposite way and make it a big heal, set only your own health to 20.
 
L

Levi

Banned
zoukka said:
Yes let's kill off the last playable control decks guise!
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It's a combo deck. Like OTK Warrior, it aims to stall the game until it can assemble its combo pieces and win with a huge burst of damage. Also like OTK warrior, it has a ton of removal, a huge draw engine, and a non-interactive finisher.

Alexstraza is fine, it doesn't need nerfed. If you hate Freeze Mage you can tech in Eater of Secrets and Ragnaros or other Freeze Mage-hate cards.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Levi said:
It's a combo deck. Like OTK Warrior, it aims to stall the game until it can assemble its combo pieces and win with a huge burst of damage. Also like OTK warrior, it has a ton of removal, a huge draw engine, and a non-interactive finisher.

Alexstraza is fine, it doesn't need nerfed. If you hate Freeze Mage you can tech in Eater of Secrets and Ragnaros or other Freeze Mage-hate cards.
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In Wild, everyone runs 1x Eater of Secrets. :( Freeze Mage is my favorite deck.
 
L

Levi

Banned
I hate freeze mage as much as the next guy, but I'm fucking sick of cards getting nerfed.

Balance the game by releasing content, not by destroying entire archetypes.
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
Levi said:
It's a combo deck. Like OTK Warrior, it aims to stall the game until it can assemble its combo pieces and win with a huge burst of damage. Also like OTK warrior, it has a ton of removal, a huge draw engine, and a non-interactive finisher.

Alexstraza is fine, it doesn't need nerfed. If you hate Freeze Mage you can tech in Eater of Secrets and Ragnaros or other Freeze Mage-hate cards.
Click to expand...

Warrior OTK is a bit more interactive to play against. Warrior OTK can't ignore taunts or some secrets.

Alexstraza is fine for most decks, but there is no downside playing it as a Freeze Mage with iceblock up... it is insane in that sense as it is 9 mana to do ~15 damage and they have a free turn next. However I don't mind Freeze Mage because it's a shit deck, it's just super annoying to play against, but not popular enough for people to run eater of secrets.

zoukka said:
Yes yes I meant combo (it's seven in the morning here -.-)

Pls don't kill combo off blizz pls.
Click to expand...

If they didn't do it last time the nerfs came, I doubt they will.
 
Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Karsticles said:
In Wild, everyone runs 1x Eater of Secrets. :( Freeze Mage is my favorite deck.
Click to expand...

Running 1x Eater of Secrets is hilarious in wild. I love seeing people hold onto it when I'm playing my N'Zoth paladin variant. No secrets and the deck looks like Secret pally for the first several turns.

That said Freeze Mage and Secret Pally suck ass and if you play it against them they can be totally destroyed. Freeze mage gets it worse tho, Secret Pally only really gets hosed if you can get the Avenge.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
QFNS said:
Running 1x Eater of Secrets is hilarious in wild. I love seeing people hold onto it when I'm playing my N'Zoth paladin variant. No secrets and the deck looks like Secret pally for the first several turns.

That said Freeze Mage and Secret Pally suck ass and if you play it against them they can be totally destroyed. Freeze mage gets it worse tho, Secret Pally only really gets hosed if you can get the Avenge.
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I've started enjoying Wild less because the Eater of Secrets also screws with Hunters incidentally. :( It sucks that a tech card is auto-include because Blizzard is so terrible at everything outside of production values.
 
M

Mulgrok

Member
Professor Lich said:
Another thing about Paladins, does anyone know if you play Steward of Darkshire into a Sword of Justice, if your X/1's will get the shield then get buffed? I know the other way around makes it where they turn into X/2's before getting the shield.

The reason I ask is because I would think with the text on both cards should function together regardless. Steward of Darkshire has Whenever you summon while Sword of Justice has after. I took a look at that Hearthstone Science video again and it mentions how cards with the text of Whenever should trigger before cards with the text After. Which is why I'm thinking it has to be related to the sequencing.

You play Sword of Justice first, therefore it buffs the X/1 before it hits the board, getting the shield.

Whenever the situation rises, I keep forgetting to test it, hah.
Click to expand...

Sword of justice buff prevents the 1/1s from getting shields. I know from experience.
 
G

greepoman

Member
Have you ever thought...hey having a yogg as a coin flip to win the game isn't enough RNG? Well dog is playing a ramp yogg druid with barnes. It's basically just ramp, spells and big minions. Here's a few of the disgusting things I've seen:

Turn 1 Barnes into rag. Hunter had no answer. Dead turn 4

Turn 4 Barnes into aviana(makes your minions cost 1)...then innervate Y'Shaarj which pulls rag

Turn 2 Barnes into Y'Shaarj which pulls real Y'Shaarj which pulls bog creeper.

This list goes on and on. And then if all that fails just Yogg for the win.

For reference Barnes, fandral, emperor, cairne, bog creepers, rag, ysera, aviana, Y'Shaarj, yogg are the minions.

Probably not consistent enough for tier1 but will tilt you win the absurd wins it gets.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
greepoman said:
Have you ever thought...hey having a yogg as a coin flip to win the game isn't enough RNG? Well dog is playing a ramp yogg druid with barnes. It's basically just ramp, spells and big minions. Here's a few of the disgusting things I've seen:

Turn 1 Barnes into rag. Hunter had no answer. Dead turn 4

Turn 4 Barnes into aviana(makes your minions cost 1)...then innervate Y'Shaarj which pulls rag

Turn 2 Barnes into Y'Shaarj which pulls real Y'Shaarj which pulls bog creeper.

This list goes on and on. And then if all that fails just Yogg for the win.

For reference Barnes, fandral, emperor, cairne, bog creepers, rag, ysera, aviana, Y'Shaarj, yogg are the minions.

Probably not consistent enough for tier1 but will tilt you win the absurd wins it gets.
Click to expand...
I know everyone makes fun of Gruul, but I feel like he could work in that deck.
 
A

Asbel

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Freeze mage is still scum. They're the worst to play against. Mind mindbogglingly boring to play against.



Wow just stop with this inflammatory bs man. That isn't even close to true.
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Just played against classic control pally on ladder. Just hero power and only in response play Peacekeepers, humilities, coliseums, equalities... zzzz...

Just my luck, faced control warrior and mill rogue with giant b4 that. Where's the aggro meta..
 
Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Karsticles said:
I've started enjoying Wild less because the Eater of Secrets also screws with Hunters incidentally. :( It sucks that a tech card is auto-include because Blizzard is so terrible at everything outside of production values.
Click to expand...

If you know people are running certain tech cards that is exploitable in terms of deck building. Don't play secrets and you will do better (eventually) against lots of people who are running them assuming Eater of Secrets is as good as you say. If hunter is your deck of choice then you might be in a bit of trouble tho. Lots of classes don't need them though, Priest for example, which is still very strong in Wild (praise Lightbomb).
 
K

Karsticles

Member
QFNS said:
If you know people are running certain tech cards that is exploitable in terms of deck building. Don't play secrets and you will do better (eventually) against lots of people who are running them assuming Eater of Secrets is as good as you say. If hunter is your deck of choice then you might be in a bit of trouble tho. Lots of classes don't need them though, Priest for example, which is still very strong in Wild (praise Lightbomb).
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I know all this, but it's less fun when I can't run any secrets at all for fear of the big tempo loss.
 
P

poppedcollar69

Member
i just had a match against a freeze mage where i had an enormous board at multiple points, forced him to alex himself, healed back to 30 late in the game, and still only won by 1 hp

if i hadn't doomsayered when i did, killing the two novice apprentices he played, i would have lost

yeah i wasn't playing a *good* deck, but damn thats ridiculous
 
V

vall03

Member
For all the flak that the Priest class gets as the worst class, it sure is hated by the community. Though its kinda fun trying to beat top meta decks using Priest.

Also, I can't wait for the meta to stabilize for Karazhan, I have some dust and I have no idea where to use it on.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
I still miss healbot a lot. Gone are the days where someone might trade instead of going face because you likely have a healbot and the face damage push may actually end up failing.

It was always the best way to deal with decks that aim to finish off largely with burst damage. I don't know why Blizzard doesn't see why this is not an important card to have, since healing is the only real way to counter those types of decks due to asynchronous turns. It's also lead to this heavy all in early strategies... I was actually fireballed to the face on turn 3... and I somehow actually lost that despite having board control for the rest of the game.

Good Job Bob said:
What exactly would an Alex nerf look like?
Click to expand...

An alex nerf would look like this:

set your health to 18 (or 20).
 
P

Pooya

Member
ayy, this priest resurrected a shifting shade four freaking times and still lost, can't even beat me with my own cards! get rekt.

Like I said resurrect is a bad mechanic, it's hugely unfair when it works and it can be random coin toss and more swingy than tuskarr totemic even. I really really hate this direction they're going with with these cards, Barnes is another. Pulling huge game breaking stats or effects in early game decided by RNG? Like who thought this is a good idea.
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
vall03 said:
For all the flak that the Priest class gets as the worst class, it sure is hated by the community.
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A class known for its spells that delete or steal minions while stalling the game is hated...I wonder why...
 
P

Pooya

Member
yeah, pretty much all the respect is gone, everyone wants to push face now, who cares, if you're not paladin, priest or not playing control warrior or renolock, you can't heal anyway. Healbot was good for the game. If they wanted people to use class heals, they could have made them better than healbot...which they have now, paladin isn't going to play healbot now for example. Priest never played healbot ever, same for warrior. It was pretty much a warlock card, and maybe sometimes in rogue.

Right now, warrior, priest, paladin, shaman and druid are covered and warlock can do some things with Reno for now. Mage is fine too and they can stall just fine.

Hunter for example is getting interesting cards but it's so easy to get face rolled as hunter if you're not the aggressor yourself. Rogue is in the same boat, They need to come up with a reasonable way to burst heal as neutral way if they're not giving every class a good tool. Something that heals for more than 4... I'm even considering testing Bolf if I had it. It heals for 9!
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
I still miss healbot a lot. Gone are the days where someone might trade instead of going face because you likely have a healbot and the face damage push may actually end up failing.

It was always the best way to deal with decks that aim to finish off largely with burst damage. I don't know why Blizzard doesn't see why this is not an important card to have, since healing is the only real way to counter those types of decks due to asynchronous turns. It's also lead to this heavy all in early strategies... I was actually fireballed to the face on turn 3... and I somehow actually lost that despite having board control for the rest of the game.



An alex nerf would look like this:

set your health to 18 (or 20).
Click to expand...
I completely agree. I played a Tempo Mage who Frost Bolted my face on turn 2. Then on Turn 3 he used Forbidden Torch. As the game went on, and he played minions that I crushed while maintaining my board, he got the buffed Torch, threw another Fireball, and then topdecked Frostbolt and pinged my face to kill me. There was probably some damage in there to make it all work out. By the end, I had a board of 6 minions. It didn't matter - I never had a chance.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
They tried to give Cult Apothecary as the neutral heal but that card is NOT the main healer of the deck. A lot of people including myself use that card in Renolock out of necessity. Along with granular heals like Refreshment Vendor and Farseer. Really these don't matter much, if you don't draw Renolock you aren't going to win against an aggressive/tempo deck anyway

Hotform was right, they should've made Ragnaros Lightlord a neutral card (like OG Ragnaros).

It's especially frustrating playing against Hunter where they just have you on a clock and you eventually reach the point of inevitability. That's why control play is relegated to the classes with the best heals... Warrior/Priest (who have their hero power) and Paladin (who got some really over powered heals). The best other class heal is in Shaman with Healing Wave which is also why Crusher Shaman is even somewhat playable even in competitive play.


Bolf isn't good in the current meta. It's good in a meta where most of the damage comes from spell or hand. Against a full board Bolf really doesn't do much and it can be Executed/Hexed/Sapped for lethal etc. Honestly it's not a bad card... it's just a damn shame it comes down on turn 6 when you are probably already dead if you don't have Reno Jackson.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
The only thing I don't like about healbot is that it is a fairly boring and straight forward inflexible card. At times, that really lends well to itself, because it fills a specific purpose and does that very well.

I think ideally we get more healing cards that are niche, but we need more of them because the cards we have gotten so far have been fairly narrow, mainly class based. Priest of the feast, hallazeal, and rag light lord are really good card designs imo. They're of course... all class cards. All 3 of them probably could have been great neutral cards.

I'm hoping we get something nice in the upcoming expansion. And I actually do recall reading blizzard or ben brode saying in an interview (maybe it was twitter) that they are sort of open to bringing back some old cards (healbot was specifically mentioned as being possible, while sludge belcher was specifically mentioned as not).
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Dahbomb said:
They tried to give Cult Apothecary as the neutral heal but that card is NOT the main healer of the deck. A lot of people including myself use that card in Renolock out of necessity. Along with granular heals like Refreshment Vendor and Farseer. Really these don't matter much, if you don't draw Renolock you aren't going to win against an aggressive/tempo deck anyway

Hotform was right, they should've made Ragnaros Lightlord a neutral card (like OG Ragnaros).

It's especially frustrating playing against Hunter where they just have you on a clock and you eventually reach the point of inevitability. That's why control play is relegated to the classes with the best heals... Warrior/Priest (who have their hero power) and Paladin (who got some really over powered heals). The best other class heal is in Shaman with Healing Wave which is also why Crusher Shaman is even somewhat playable even in competitive play.


Bolf isn't good in the current meta. It's good in a meta where most of the damage comes from spell or hand. Against a full board Bolf really doesn't do much and it can be Executed/Hexed/Sapped for lethal etc. Honestly it's not a bad card... it's just a damn shame it comes down on turn 6 when you are probably already dead if you don't have Reno Jackson.
Click to expand...

I played Shadowform against a Hunter and realized it was over.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/going-first-vs-coin-better/

Some data on going first vs going second.

TLDR version:

If you play a tempo deck then you are highly favored to go first (like 5-7% difference). If you play a slower, control deck then you are slightly favored to go second.

Global difference is like 3% in favor of going first.

Miracle Rogue and Tempo Mage despite getting additional benefit off of the coin are still favored going first.

Since a lot of the top decks are tempo based, there's a bigger advantage going first in general especially when it's tempo tempo but it flips when it's two different archetypes going at it (Zoo vs Miracle Rogue is favored to who has the coin).


This pretty much mirrors what is happening in the Arena where Arena is all about tempo and there aren't enough tools to play a reactive/control game so going first has immense advantage. At least in Constructed you can make slower, reactive decks that are fine going 2nd.
 
S

spoon!

Member
Finally crafted malygos after putting it off for the longest time. Maly rogue is probably the most fun I've had playing this stale game since LoE. It actually has a different style of playing. I suppose I've run out of deck types to hold any interest in the game anymore, and nothing in Kara looks like it'll shake that up. Just remixes of the same mechanics we've had before in new cards. Heres to another four months of GET RANDOM OUTCOME for doing ABC.
 
F

fertygo

Member
The fact Tuskarr Totemic highroll is stronger than Barnes best outcome (not counting meme material like Aviana, y'sharj) is crazy

the fact its just 1/1 copy iand barnes body also weak made it bearable, even if you get something like Cairne, the free yeti came 2 turn later.


Meanwhile Tuskarr highroll fuck you at that moment stat, fuck that card.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
fertygo said:
The fact Tuskarr Totemic highroll is stronger than Barnes best outcome (not counting meme material like Aviana, y'sharj) is crazy

the fact its just 1/1 copy iand barnes body also weak made it bearable, even if you get something like Cairne, the free yeti came 2 turn later.


Meanwhile Tuskarr highroll fuck you at that moment stat, fuck that card.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen a tuskar totemic reach the heights of an ET tick :)

And I don't think I have lost once when I have gotten it. I mean, it's basically play a 4/5 and gain 5-6 mana lol
 
P

Pooya

Member
I'm playing that ramp druid dog was playing minus aviana that I don't have, it's pretty strong. I'm yet to lose lol and it is fun. Good deck to play if you want to troll people. how many of these big boys you can remove?
 
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