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Levi

Banned
Yo, I would love more spectators willing to discuss plays. Especially if they have Skype or use Discord voice.

I get really bad tunnel vision when I'm playing and sometimes overlook plays or make bad reads and I'm certain that's why I can't get past rank 6.

I'm doing a lot better not letting RNG or bad match ups Tilt me but thats also still an issue.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Burgle Rogue is a lot of fun, with Burgle, Swashburgler, and Huckster, but the deck doesn't feel like it has a real win condition, outside of "RNG your way to victory".
 
Burgle Rogue is a lot of fun, with Burgle, Swashburgler, and Huckster, but the deck doesn't feel like it has a real win condition, outside of "RNG your way to victory".

Yeah, I feel the exact same way. You're lucky if you can pull more burn from the class you're up against. It's the main reason I have N'Zoth and Ragnaros in my deck.

So far the best I can do is try to keep Ragnaros up a turn then Shadowcast it for two of them.
 

manhack

Member
Win streak into Rank 5 this morning. Glad to get that out of the way. I played a bloodlust witchdoctor totem shaman to start on my Shaman quests and ran into a few Druids without wild growth.

Will probably play some janky control shaman to finish up quests and move back to my Paladin and Rogue deck to see how viable they are.

7pDajf3.png
 

wiibomb

Member
Yo, I would love more spectators willing to discuss plays. Especially if they have Skype or use Discord voice.

I get really bad tunnel vision when I'm playing and sometimes overlook plays or make bad reads and I'm certain that's why I can't get past rank 6.

I'm doing a lot better not letting RNG or bad match ups Tilt me but thats also still an issue.

I love that too... I also get a lot of tunnel vision and while I always try to contemplate other plays, they are difficult.

The tunnel vision strikes hard on zoo for me... I won 2 games recently, but I felt there were many better choices I could make from my turns, I just never saw them
 

manhack

Member
Yo, I would love more spectators willing to discuss plays. Especially if they have Skype or use Discord voice.

I get really bad tunnel vision when I'm playing and sometimes overlook plays or make bad reads and I'm certain that's why I can't get past rank 6.

I'm doing a lot better not letting RNG or bad match ups Tilt me but thats also still an issue.

I will be off and on HS today so feel free to ping me in the GAF Discord Channel or on bnet.
 

tamminen

Member
Win streak into Rank 5 this morning. Glad to get that out of the way. I played a bloodlust witchdoctor totem shaman to start on my Shaman quests and ran into a few Druids without wild growth.

Will probably play some janky control shaman to finish up quests and move back to my Paladin and Rogue deck to see how viable they are.

7pDajf3.png

Can you share your totem shaman and paladin deck? I like both but Ive been struggling with both so Im open for ideas!
 

manhack

Member
Can you share your totem shaman and paladin deck? I like both but Ive been struggling with both so Im open for ideas!

I found this totem list online, but I don't remember from who(I think Frodan):


This is my own list for Paladin. I don't pretend it is a good list, but I have had fun with it and it does well against everything but priest as far as I can tell.

 
Man, I am going to throw a fucking party when BRM rotates out because I'll never have to see another Flamewaker again.

Just another card that proves the Hearthstone development team has absolutely no clue what they're doing.
 

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Man, I am going to throw a fucking party when BRM rotates out because I'll never have to see another Flamewaker again.

Just another card that proves the Hearthstone development team has absolutely no clue what they're doing.

It's too bad too because there are lots of awesome cards in that expansion, and basically all of the dragon synergy minions. And by the way when you lose BRM you will also be losing TGT and LoE. So prepare to lose Reno, Justicar, Elise, and a host of other good, fun cards at the same time.

The rotation idea is great in theory, but when they don't ever have a change to the base set I worry about all the fun parts of the game getting lost to Wild and not being replaced with anything interesting. There is still nothing else like Reno in the game. Curator is close, but not quite the same.
 
Puh won the NZoth pally mirror, that was tough. Going into fatigue with both players having an equality clear in hand is weird but in the end I won because my Sylvanas stole his Cairne in a 1 in 3 roll.
 

Pooya

Member
I hope they push control mage after flamewaker is out instead of printing similar aggressive cards. They're doing it this set, that's one thing I'm positive about in Karazhan. Needs some more cards still, a better drawing tool for mage. I'd honestly play a demon sense like card for secrets in mage. And then there is the problem of your win condition, Elise is just not good anymore. It used to be grinder game where your opponent just runs out of stuff or with moltens, that doesn't work anymore. I guess Medivh is supposed to be one win condition, I don't know about that..
 
One day paladin will get a versatile removal spell that will allow them to kill their own sylvanas when opportune. Enter the Colosseum doesn't count.

Opponent priest entombed my Sylvanas then played and immediately killed it to steal my Cairne. Great line, completely salt inducing, but so often do I have sylvanas in hand and wished I could kill her myself especially against priest so I can guarantee the NZoth trigger and get one of their engines for a change.
 

akinkcl

Neo Member
I think innervate is the most broken card in this game..that card almost single handedly means druid will never be trash tier
 

wiibomb

Member
I will be off and on HS today so feel free to ping me in the GAF Discord Channel or on bnet.

At work but if you're around this evening I will take you up on that.

I'll be tonight available so I'll try to be there and discuss a little some plays.. it would be interesting

I think innervate is the most broken card in this game..that card almost single handedly means druid will never be trash tier

I've trashed way to many druids.. it isn't as OP as you think it is. it is pretty situational. Of course it can lead to awesome plays, but most of the time I've seen it work to keep up with the board
 

inky

Member
I think innervate is the most broken card in this game..that card almost single handedly means druid will never be trash tier

It's useless in a top deck situation (empty hand).

It's a good staple card, but every class has them Hex, Polymorph/Frostball/Fireball, Truesilver Champion, Fiery War Axe, etc.
 
I think innervate is the most broken card in this game..that card almost single handedly means druid will never be trash tier
I was thinking about this recently and as a comparison the closest card in nature for mtg is Black Lotus which is only legal in the format were nothing is banned and it's restricted to 1 copy even in that format. But that one costs zero and adds 3.
The next best comparison costs 1 and adds 3, that's the bare necessity for an innervate nerf.
MTG went through many bans in regards to rituals and have now arrived 2 for 3 as appropriate.
Since you can't go above 10 mana I think 3 for 5 would be fine. It stops turn 1 coin shenanigans and will lead to some awkward sequencing later on.

Also something that has bothered me since forever is that wild growth turns into a cantrip at 10, with Yogg and other cards that's even worse. Ramp is supposed to have a downside in dead draws 2 mana draw a card isn't a downside.
 

V-Faction

Member
Burgle Rogue is a lot of fun, with Burgle, Swashburgler, and Huckster, but the deck doesn't feel like it has a real win condition, outside of "RNG your way to victory".

Needs something like "Pickpocket - Discover a card (from your opponent)" to reduce that RNGesus.
 
It's useless in a top deck situation (empty hand).

It's a good staple card, but every class has them Hex, Polymorph/Frostball/Fireball, Truesilver Champion, Fiery War Axe, etc.

Its value decreases sharply as the game goes on, as well, even if you have more cards in hand. If you cheat a big minion out on turn 1 or 2, that can win you the game on the spot. In the late game, it's often good for an additional hero power and maybe just 1 more spell to fuel up your Yogg. Sometimes you can pull off power plays like Ancient of War plus Druid of the Claw or Onyxia plus Power of the Wild, but at that point, the other player has access to powerful answers as well.
 
I played against an astral communion Druid earlier that was able to get Ysharjj off once, but then went on to top deck back to back innervate as I beat him in the face. Had to have been a frustrating game for the Druid. So yeah innervate can really dilute the deck mid to late game.

Make matters worse for him I was holding a deadly shot for when he actually could play something.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Innervate is an insanely powerful card and results in many "I win" god draw states.

Every single Druid deck in the history of time has used two Innervates without fail. It's too powerful not to use two of.

Like when you build a new Druid deck you always put two Innervates in as the first two cards in the deck.


Saying it's bad in a late game top deck situation is a poor way to evaluate it. Tunnel Trogg sucks late game if you top deck it but the card is obviously insanely powerful.
 

manhack

Member
It turns out playing Ancestral Spirit on Ysera and then Faceless manipulator against a control warrior is pretty good.

Just Far Sight Things.

107.png
 
I love how Blizzard makes Cloaked Huntress thinking they're going to create some new Hunter archetypes and all it does is bring back face Hunter lol.

I don't think I've ever seen a development team so out of touch with their own game.
 

manhack

Member
I love how Blizzard makes Cloaked Huntress thinking they're going to create some new Hunter archetypes and all it does is bring back face Hunter lol.

I don't think I've ever seen a development team so out of touch with their own game.

While I personally think Cloaked Huntress is great in aggro Hunter, I haven't really seen it in that archetype. Most have been beast focused Mid-range and the occasional secret focused. I have only seen 1 hunter I would classify as "Face".

That said I play a face hunter style deck on my EU account for dailies and when 5-3 in about 20 min or so.
 

inky

Member
Saying it's bad in a late game top deck situation is a poor way to evaluate it. Tunnel Trogg sucks late game if you top deck it but the card is obviously insanely powerful.

But you have to consider the strategies it encourages as well as which other tools the class has, that's why the comparison to Tunnel Trogg doesn't apply. Also, Tunnel Trogg sucks, but it is still a minion, Innervate is literally useless.

I'm not saying it's the only way to evaluate a card, I'm saying it has a clear downside, and in a class with ramp and mana acceleration tools it is balanced with that downside, because Druid also lacks tools like cheap, efficient removal late game.

Saying you can put it in every deck is also a poor way of evaluating a card then. Staple cards are called staple cards for a reason: identity. Ideally you include Frostbolt in every Mage deck, that doesn't immediately make it overpowered, there's a bunch of other stuff to consider as well. And yes, I get that the Classic Druid set is on the powerful side as a whole, but they already started chopping it down and killing stuff like Innervate will harm the class a lot. A class that isn't really known for being OP with every expansion btw, one that has ups and downs like most others.

I love how Blizzard makes Cloaked Huntress thinking they're going to create some new Hunter archetypes and all it does is bring back face Hunter lol.

I don't think I've ever seen a development team so out of touch with their own game.

I hate cards like that, because the effect is so broad it only needs the proper supporting cards to be hilariously op. They complain a lot about "limiting space design" but how does a card like that not limit the kind of secrets you can print? It was a similar deal with Mad Scientist. Now you can't print 6 mana Druid secrets because you included such a dumb enabler in the first place. (don't know anything about lore, so maybe those don't apply, but in the general sense it is true).
 
Innervate is an insanely powerful card and results in many "I win" god draw states.

Every single Druid deck in the history of time has used two Innervates without fail. It's too powerful not to use two of.

Like when you build a new Druid deck you always put two Innervates in as the first two cards in the deck.


Saying it's bad in a late game top deck situation is a poor way to evaluate it. Tunnel Trogg sucks late game if you top deck it but the card is obviously insanely powerful.

I think everyone agrees that Innervate is a very strong card, but this:

I think innervate is the most broken card in this game..that card almost single handedly means druid will never be trash tier

is an over statement. This is what was being disputed, not that Innervate is a great card.
 

manhack

Member
just added you, check your requests

EDIT: I don't have the quest, so don't add me if you are looking for another one with a quest

Yeah I think we discourage the "80 G Quest Trading" here and prefer to either give the quest away or there are some other places that allow that.
 

wiibomb

Member
Yeah I think we discourage the "80 G Quest Trading" here and prefer to either give the quest away or there are some other places that allow that.

yeah, I don't want to encourage that at all neither... I replied because I though he was just looking for someone to do the quest, didn't saw the trading part
 

Dahbomb

Member
Yeah that original statement was a bit over the top but Innervate is still an insane card. It was a card that Blizzard had on the chopping block but they categorized it as a class identity card so it was left alone. Plus they were nerfing 3 other Druid cards so it was better they didn't do it for the quadruple whammy.

And Druid has never really been below tier 2 either for an extended time. Before we always had Combo Druid and now we have Token and Beast Druid. Druid just seems to find a way to be relevant, maybe Innervate allows them to always be viable... maybe not.
 
I had a game where druid had about 17-18 attack and 20-22 health on board by the end of their turn two, thanks to innervate. People have suggested previously that balancing innervate should have been done when transitioning to standard, and I find myself not disagreeing with that (back then and now).

I forget what the suggestions were, but they were along the lines of restoring used mana, not gaining mana.

Here is a post I made about it before:

Yeah. Just be careful watching this replay. Trigger warning required.

https://hsreplay.net/replay/mfqmr74tqNuZ2xQ5CVBNU8

Seriously, be sure you have a safe space available. I am triggered watching it in replay form. I was nearly legend when this happened.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I generally don't have a problem with a single Innervate play but a double Innervate play is back breaking. Losing to god opening hands will never be fun and interactive.

I don't know how to nerf it and still make it playable/good so for now I am fine with it staying as is.
 
It turns out playing Ancestral Spirit on Ysera and then Faceless manipulator against a control warrior is pretty good.

Just Far Sight Things.

107.png

I know Far Sight isn't a great card, but I also had some amazing combos with it right after Naxx came out.

I think my personal favorite was getting a cost cut on Al'Akir, Reincarnate, Ancestral Spirit, or Baron Rivendare. (Or maybe Rivendare stayed on the board....)

Anyway, play Al'akir, hit for 6, then Ancestral x 2 into a Reincarnate. Then you can hit for another 18. With Baron up, that was a lot of Al'akirs. Would also work with Leeroy too.

Same deck where I got a board full of Thaddiuses once.
 

inky

Member
I had a game where druid had about 17-18 attack and 20-22 health on board by the end of their turn two, thanks to innervate. People have suggested previously that balancing innervate should have been done when transitioning to standard, and I find myself not disagreeing with that (back then and now).

I forget what the suggestions were, but they were along the lines of restoring used mana, not gaining mana.

Here is a post I made about it before:

That's a pretty nuts play tbf, he won the lottery there. Ideally he would've dropped his hand to put something like 5/5 stats in turn 1, but the synergy with those tokens + coin was too much.
 

Levi

Banned
I had a game where druid had about 17-18 attack and 20-22 health on board by the end of their turn two, thanks to innervate. People have suggested previously that balancing innervate should have been done when transitioning to standard, and I find myself not disagreeing with that (back then and now).
:

They should have left Ancient of Lore and Keeper of the Grove alone and nerfed Innervate instead. And with innervate gone, maybe they can finally give Druid some decent removal options.

there are a surprising number of priests up here at rank 4

I guess there really were a lot of people chomping at the bit to play Priest in standard, but didn't feel they could until there was a competitive deck.
 
I generally don't have a problem with a single Innervate play but a double Innervate play is back breaking. Losing to god opening hands will never be fun and interactive.

I don't know how to nerf it and still make it playable/good so for now I am fine with it staying as is.

My example is definitely the god hand, but lets be honest, you don't need a god hand to win with off innervate. Druid sometimes just steals wins way more than any other class due to innervate. Even their worst match up can be won with innervate. It's why they've almost always been one of the strongest classes, and I doubt that'll change.

That's a pretty nuts play tbf, he won the lottery there. Ideally he would've dropped his hand to put something like 5/5 stats in turn 1, but the synergy with those tokens + coin was too much.

Agreed it was the god opening. But squidjy (sp?) pointed out it could have been coin + innervate barnes generates avianna, innervate + two 9-10 mana minions like rag and yshaarj (that pulls deathwing). lol
 
I generally don't have a problem with a single Innervate play but a double Innervate play is back breaking. Losing to god opening hands will never be fun and interactive.

I don't know how to nerf it and still make it playable/good so for now I am fine with it staying as is.

I think that if you have to nerf it, it should be like a minion version of Preparation where it reduces the cost of the next minion played by 2. You could make it so that it's not stackable, so no turn 2 7 mana monsters on board. It would also prevent those disgusting Violet Teacher/Fandral turns.
 
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