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[Dahbomb]

Alright serious discussion time, top 5 cards you would nerf from Classic/Basic set for next rotation.

My top 5:

*Execute: Should go to 2 mana already. Not like Warrior is struggling with removal options and a one mana Execute makes it so that Tempo Warriors can just tempo you out of the game for playing a large minion.

*Azure Drake: I suggested this card be nerfed because I predicted that it will be run as basically the Dr 5 in many decks and that's what is happening. The triple whammy of Dragon tribe, spell damage and card makes it too versatile. Probably just shave one stat off of it is fine (so a 3/4 minion).

*Power Overwhelming: Similar issue as Execute where it's way too easy to tempo out and punish someone for playing a mid sized or larger threat. Also there is the massive burst potential with Faceless and Leeroy shenanigans. Should go to +3/+4 and honestly even then it would be used.

*Rockbiter: Only the interaction with Doomhammer is the problem and it should just act as a weapon when used on the hero (so it would replace Doomhammer). Wording might be tricky so Blizzard would have to figure it out.

*Abusive Sergeant: Another one of those high tempo, aggressive cards that have plagued the game since forever. Abusive has always been a bit too effecient for its stats. I think I would be fine if they just flipped the stats to make it a 1/2 so it's less aggressive.


Honorable mentions: Prep and Innervate. This is a package and I feel like if you nerf one you kinda have to nerf the other too. Prep is less worse than Innervate though.


Except for Execute this is pretty much the same list as I had pre-Standard (minus the cards that were actually nerfed like Juggler, Force, Ancient etc).

Divine Favor escaped the list just barely but I would be happy if that card got nerfed too.

 

[Miletius]

Druid and warrior are what classes in HS should aspire to be. Multiple archetypes, all somewhat competitive and with ample options to tech in cards as situation dictates.

Innervate is really good though, probably borderline broken in some cases. Pretty much every druid mulligan guide in the history of mulligan guides is like "throw away everything unless you have an innervate or wild growth. Then.. [situational stuff]."

Even now, Beast Druid doesn't run WG, but still runs innervate, for those turn 2/3 tigers or DoTC.

 

[Yaboosh]

Druid and warrior are what classes in HS should aspire to be. Multiple archetypes, all somewhat competitive and with ample options to tech in cards as situation dictates.

Innervate is really good though, probably borderline broken in some cases. Pretty much every druid mulligan guide in the history of mulligan guides is like "throw away everything unless you have an innervate or wild growth. Then.. [situational stuff]."

Even now, Beast Druid doesn't run WG, but still runs innervate, for those turn 2/3 tigers or DoTC.

Shaman has great diversity right now too. Aggro, midrange, control, totem, evolve.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Alright serious discussion time, top 5 cards you would nerf from Classic/Basic set for next rotation.

1. Doomhammer/Rockbiter Weapon - We all know why, no need to beat a dead horse. Whether it be nerfing the weapon itself or its combo with Rockbiter, something has to be done about it. An aggro deck shouldn't have that much burst.

2. Power Overwhelming - Same as above. Aggro decks having obscene burst is awful. Something needs to be done about it, especially when you add in the fact that this card makes trading trivially easy for Zoo.

3. Abusive Sergeant - Absolutely ridiculous for the cost. Should either be a 1/1 or only give +1 attack, I prefer the latter.

4. Savannah Highmane - It's probably time to just hit this card. There's a reason it's been called Hunter's Classic Legendary. No reason it can't be dropped down to a 5/5 or maybe even go up in cost by 1. If Call of the Wild didn't exist maybe it'd be easier to look the other way but not so much anymore.

5. Alexstrasza - I despise what this card stands for currently. It's essentially used as Battlecry: Deal 15 damage to the enemy hero and that's just beyond dumb. Needs to be reworked.

 

[Salex_]

Decided to try arena since I haven't played in so long. *2 matches later*. Yeah, this is the true form of CurveStone. I'm staying away from this mode.

I feel sorry for new players lol. It's too bad this is the only decent way to get packs without spending a ton of money or waiting months to build a good deck. The 3 win reward is a joke. I tried Elder Scroll Legends and their 3 win reward is 15-35 gold and a free random card. Can you imagine if HearthStone had that? It would convince people to continue to play matches in general and for those who already got rank 5 for the season and have no interest in getting Legend.

EDIT: Currently 4-1. Mage too gud.
EDIT2: 7-1!!! Ethereal Conjurer and Faceless Summoner are the MVP candidates for this run.

 

[Yaboosh]

I still think an Alex change to set hero hp to 20 is a good change. Buff the heal nerf the damage.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think I would rather nerf Animal Companion over Highmane. Mostly just Huffer.

 

[ViviOggi]

Decided to try arena since I haven't played in so long. *2 matches later*. Yeah, this is the true form of CurveStone. I'm staying away from this mode.

I feel sorry for new players lol. It's too bad this is the only decent way to get packs without spending a ton of money or waiting months to build a good deck. The 3 win reward is a joke. I tried Elder Scroll Legends and their 3 win reward is 15-35 and a free card. Can you imagine if HearthStone had that? It would convince people to continue to play matches in general and for those who already got rank 5 for the season and have no interest in getting Legend.

Well it's Curvestone just like constructed but at least you sometimes spot a weird card

Every single one of the recent CCGs is crazy generous compared to HS, Eternal literally throws cards at you. Still got nothing on that Blizzard pull...

 

[BananasWithGuns]

So I'm guessing some streamer was playing face Rogue? Because this is like the third time I've run into it today.

 

[Karsticles]

So I'm guessing some streamer was playing face Rogue? Because this is like the third time I've run into it today.

Reynad was climbing legendary with it.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

This Control Warrior played reasonably the whole game but then drops the golden monkey when we're in fatigue and I hadn't played my NZoth yet and he still had a brawl. I cleared his NZoth with my last equality and was like 40 life behind with no healing left and medium pressure on board.
He could have ridden it out till I died to fatigue with me having to run my NZoth into his brawl eventually.

The control paladin mirror ended in my favour because he played Acolyte and I made him draw 3 card of it.

Played a lother of control recently and I find Zoo much more difficult to pilot.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Reynad was climbing legendary with it.

Lol, how is it Reynad always seems to be the one popularizing the aggro decks?

Guy is trying to sabotage the game I swear.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Lol, how is it Reynad always seems to be the one popularizing the aggro decks?

Guy is trying to sabotage the game I swear.

Well last week people were complaining about him playing OTK warrior with arcane giants.

I've seen him play all sorts of decks, from aggro to control paladin... he doesn't just play aggro.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

I was talking all this shit the other day about how Entomb doesn't bother me and then I go and get wrecked by it a few minutes ago.

I play Yogg, and this is the ONE time he decides to not kill himself and then he gets entombed and the priest plays him a few turns later for the win.

Bah, fuck that. I'm not mad at Entomb, fuck you Yogg.

 

[manhack]

Another control warrior, another fatigue game. He went through 2 brawls, 2 executes, 2 shield slams and for some reason I was able to work around deathwing. I played doomsayer, into ysera and used faceless, double ancestral spirit on the next turn.

The 2 AS'ed Ysera are under the portal animation:

He played deathwing the next turn, but i was able to trade into DW easily with one of my Ysera. I had 3 left LOL

 

[BananasWithGuns]

So is Priest the only class without a viable aggro variant now?

What a sad state of affairs.

 

[fertygo]

Innervate is like the worst card to draw in topdeck late game, so there's drawback

I don't think its need nerf, its part of class identity too

 

[Yaboosh]

We are going to be seeing a lot of ooze and Harrison in a few days.

 

[jgminto]

I was talking all this shit the other day about how Entomb doesn't bother me and then I go and get wrecked by it a few minutes ago.

I play Yogg, and this is the ONE time he decides to not kill himself and then he gets entombed and the priest plays him a few turns later for the win.

Bah, fuck that. I'm not mad at Entomb, fuck you Yogg.

Getting your Yogg entombed is the best. It means the game has reached "Fuck it, let's go completely insane" territory.

 

[QFNS]

We are going to be seeing a lot of ooze and Harrison in a few days.

I got the new Warrior weapon off Malkorok the other day. What a beast that thing is.

 

[manhack]

Lol, how is it Reynad always seems to be the one popularizing the aggro decks?

Guy is trying to sabotage the game I swear.

I saw him playing it the other night and made my own version, based on the old backspace rogue template, and it does pretty well. I consider it more of a tempo deck.

As you can see from my posts above I enjoy a good control match-up, but sometimes you need to fight aggressive meta head on. I think this tempo rogue variant is well matched vs. some of the other aggro decks.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Innervate is like the worst card to draw in topdeck late game, so there's drawback

I don't think its need nerf, its part of class identity too

Playing 12 mana in a single turn can still be really good. Some decks run emperor for that. If you're playing ramp or cthun druid, innervate can be an amazing card late game.

I just don't think what your arguing has any real implications in terms of whether it is balanced or not. The best cards in the game, even cards nerfed in the past, are bad at times. That doesn't mean they were balanced.

It's like the opposite of situationally good, situationally bad. You can't argue a card is great because it is rarely super good and bad or mediocre the rest of the time. You can't argue a card is balanced because rarely it is super bad.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

In such obscure situations you'll find situations for every card to not be too good.

Tirion for instance is awful when you mulligan your starting 3 and draw Rag, Rag, Tirion. Well GG hunter.

 

[patchday]

lol. You can play your Dragon Warrior against me anytime.

I was just remembering the day I made something like 10 posts in a row about how much I don't like seeing Hunter and someone from Gaf picks Hunter after I offer them 80G.

It was like, really dude?

lmao!!!

At least he didnt switch to his starter account and beat you with it I hope. My buddy has beaten me twice now with his starter deck. Granted, he hasn't won against my Tempo Mage yet which is my best deck atm

 

[manhack]

So is Priest the only class without a viable aggro variant now?

What a sad state of affairs.

So far, but I'm hoping to get my Harold Volajz Priest working.

 

[squidyj]

lol. You can play your Dragon Warrior against me anytime.

I was just remembering the day I made something like 10 posts in a row about how much I don't like seeing Hunter and someone from Gaf picks Hunter after I offer them 80G.

It was like, really dude?

give that man a medal.

 

[Fishlake]

Alright serious discussion time, top 5 cards you would nerf from Classic/Basic set for next rotation.

I would prefer they just discontinue them and move them to wild but how about this.

Doomsayer - should not be evergreen is way to powerful in certain classes compared to the other board wipes. Make it in line with the rest of the removal in the game or make better board wipes.

Alex - if nerfing means setting health to 20 I think it would be interesting. Less 2 turn kos could be used for better healing.

shield slam - remove armor

azure drake - highest value 5 drop.

doom hammer - everyone's favorite weapon

talking about nerfs and buffs.. how much should we expect them to buff or nerf and when?

If I had to guess it would be next rotation so 6 months or so from now.

 

[wiibomb]

talking about nerfs and buffs.. how much should we expect them to buff or nerf and when?

 

[Yaboosh]

talking about nerfs and buffs.. how much should we expect them to buff or nerf and when?

At every card switch out, once a year.

 

[Raxus]

Alex- With Reno rotating out the 20 health would be a nice compromise.
Malygos- another card limiting card design space. Nerf the spell damage.
Stealth-Damage should snap minions out of it.
Doomsayer- health nerfed to 5 or cost raised to 3.
Power Overwhelming- +3/+3 Unless they plan to nerf all charge minions this is going to have to be a compromise.

There is more I want to dig into so aggro isn't so strong but I feel adding cards to the base set would fix that more than anything else.

Both Stealth and Charge need to be looked at.

 

[patchday]

I was talking all this shit the other day about how Entomb doesn't bother me and then I go and get wrecked by it a few minutes ago.

I play Yogg, and this is the ONE time he decides to not kill himself and then he gets entombed and the priest plays him a few turns later for the win.

Bah, fuck that. I'm not mad at Entomb, fuck you Yogg.

At least you got to play Yogg ;(

My Yogg got kidmapped right out of my hand cause my Fireland's Portal generated a freakin' Alarm Bot. Recall, Alarm bot swaps itself with a card in your hand. I only had like 2 cards in my hand. So this stupid Alarm bot switches himself for my Yogg. Sicne Yogg got 'summoned' his battlecry didnt even fire off. Was so salty

And yeah on a different occasion a priest entombed my Yogg. Luckily he never got a chance to play him

 

[jgminto]

Nice, just opened Twin Emperor Veklor in my latest Arena pack. Now I can play C'Thun Warrior without feeling like its missing a limb.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

The Curator is pretty sick in evolve Shaman if you run the cards to support it. Almost always drawing at least 2 cards and pretty often 3 and it doesn't really jeopardize the integrity of the deck at all.

 

[Yaboosh]

The Curator is pretty sick in evolve Shaman if you run the cards to support it. Almost always drawing at least 2 cards and pretty often 3 and it doesn't really jeopardize the integrity of the deck at all.

Helps that 8 drops are the best in the game.

 

[manhack]

The Curator is pretty sick in evolve Shaman if you run the cards to support it. Almost always drawing at least 2 cards and pretty often 3 and it doesn't really jeopardize the integrity of the deck at all.

Yeah I'm loving every deck i put him in so far. I like that it is a super strong card, but you have to build (or even just modify) your deck to take advantage.

 

[Dahbomb]

talking about nerfs and buffs.. how much should we expect them to buff or nerf and when?

At the bare minimum expect a bunch of Classic/Basic cards to be nerfed at the start of the year.

Blizzard hasn't buffed cards since beta... do not expect it at all.

They nerfed like 12 cards (?) in the last batch. I think they had a list of 20 cards that were on the chopping block so it's possible the other 8 cards get hit too.

I personally want to see some of these Old God cards nerfed as well. In the classic set there really isn't much to nerf, somewhere around 5-10 I would say. But Blizzard is on the "well it's going to rotate out anyway so need to nerf" train of thought so we have to deal with Call of the Wild for at least 1.5 years.

Around this time last year, they removed Warsong Commander from the game so I would not discount them nerfing something some time after Karazhan in time for Blizzcon. Blizzard likes to shake up the meta before their big tournament and if Karazhan does not shake things up too much then their hand will be forced.


There is also a small possibility that some cards might get moved from expansion to Classic/Basic set. Blizzard has certainly entertained the idea.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I like the title/achievement system elder scrolls legends has, Hearthstone should copy that.

 

[thepotatoman]

Once they printed outright better versions of Magma Rager, Booty Bay Bodyguard, and Frostwolf Grunt, any hope for actual buffs went out the window.

 

[Karsticles]

I like the title/achievement system elder scrolls legends has, Hearthstone should copy that.

Do share.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Do share.

Well, for example, when I won a versus battle at 1 hp, I got the title "the defiant". Winning without taking damage got me "the untouchable".

Looks like there are around 30-40 titles, each unlocked different ways. Some are completing quests, some are playing cards... one you have to win a game with a 100% premium (aka gold) deck.

It's just a little feature I think hearthstone could use.

 

[Asbel]

Once they printed outright better versions of Magma Rager, Booty Bay Bodyguard, and Frostwolf Grunt, any hope for actual buffs went out the window.

Those cards will rotate out and they can buff the evergreens then.

 

[fertygo]

They always said they prefer creating new cards.

 

[Karsticles]

They always said they prefer creating new cards.

Well, of course. You can't get people to re-pay for old cards that have been balanced.

 

[cartographer]

Highmane is at the top of my list for Classic cards to be nerfed. It's more that it's not a legendary than the power level. The first Highmane never feels cheap to me. It's always the second that comes down right as you deal with the first. Since they would never alter the rarity like that, the power level should probably be adjusted.

Those cards will rotate out and they can buff the evergreens then.

This was a good joke.

 

[Yaboosh]

Just had a ridiculous game as a yogg n load versus a traditional control warrior.

It involved 4 lock and loads, two yoggs from me, and one yogg from him (from golden monkey). He died from fatigue.

Very fun game.

 

[FormallyFamicom]

I've got about 10 Highmanes and Doomguards saved up, just waiting for the day.

Spoiler

Golden Mysterious Challenger too.

 

[thepotatoman]

Well, for example, when I won a versus battle at 1 hp, I got the title "the defiant". Winning without taking damage got me "the untouchable".

Looks like there are around 30-40 titles, each unlocked different ways. Some are completing quests, some are playing cards... one you have to win a game with a 100% premium (aka gold) deck.

It's just a little feature I think hearthstone could use.

Something like that would fit in so well with how they made the loading screen. It is boring the spinner always lands on "worthy opponent".

 

[Levi]

give that man a medal.

I don't think trolling me / making sure I have a bad time when I'm doing you a favor is worthy of a medal.

Alright serious discussion time, top 5 cards you would nerf from Classic/Basic set for next rotation.

If I had my wish, they wouldn't nerf or buff anything, but give us more tools in future expansions to deal with the problematic cards on our own.

For example, they didn't have to nerf Fiery War Axe, turns out all they had to do was start printing sticky two drops again.

However, if we take it as a given that cards have to be nerfed here's what I would change:

1. Yogg Soron - They nerf combo decks and won't give Priest super strong cards because losing to those decks "feels bad". Well, nothing feels worse than losing a game you were winning because Yogg Soron gives your opponent an unearned lethal.

On the other hand, I do like that Yogg Soron rewards spell heavy decks which helps ameliorate the issue of "Curvestone" and having every deck being "play overstatted minions on curve and punish for opponent for missing a drop." If they do change this card, I'd expect it happen prior to Blizzcon. If they don't nerf it then, expect it to stick around for a while.

2. Charge - If Combo / OTK decks have to go, then so does this card. Being able to draw your whole and do a 36+ damage one turn kill is not fun or interactive.

On the other hand, maybe Blizzard shouldn't have such a huge hate-on for combo decks and the archetype shouldn't be removed from the game. Once Emperor rotates, these kind of degenerate combos won't be as easy to pull off, so leaving it alone might be best.

3. Call of the Wild - 8 mana for those stats, and with a charge minion to boot? Damage that scales higher if you have board control? A single card that dramatically improves the win rate of the deck if drawn on curve?

On the other hand, without Call of the Wild does Hunter drop off the ladder altogether? This single card seems to be the only thing keeping this class viable, and I don't think Cloaked Huntress or Lock n Load is enough on their own to keep Hunter competitive. Maybe they shouldn't nerf a classes best card when it's the only thing keeping it going.

4. Innervate: I don't think Beast Druid or Token Druid would be significantly worse without innervate, and I also don't think Ramp Druid is an archetype that the game needs. Cheating out mana is an extremely powerful effect, and with Wild Growth, Nourish, Darnassas Aspirant and Mire Keeper maybe that's enough ramp without Innervate.

On the other hand, Innervate is a core Druid card, all the Class cards have been designed with innervate in mind, and it's also the justification for how poor Druid's removal options are. Just nerfing Innervate on its own might dumpster the class if they don't also give Druid a bunch of new tools.

5. Tuskarr Totemic - Getting a "free" Mana Tide Totem or Totem Golem can singlehandedly win the game. That's a 2 in 7 chance for a turn 3 play that could decide the game. It's got to go.

On the other hand... Nope. It's completely degenerate and we shouldn't have to wait for the rotation to take care of this issue.

Cards that should not be nerfed:

Doomsayer. Come on. One of the few cards that can disrupt early aggression and slow down "curve" decks. It's a heal for 7 or it's a board clear. We need tools like this to combat midrange/aggro decks just over running us. I hate freeze mage as much as the next guy but maybe the problem is frost nova, not Doomsayer.

Alexstraza - I don't disagree that Alex is problematic, but this idea to make it set health to 20 will never happen. Blizzard obviously doesn't want to give us powerful neutral healing, they want us to use class cards or weak neutral heals, or build our decks around Reno Jackson.

Fiery War Axe, Execute, Shield Slam -- You leave Garrosh alone!!!!!!!! HE DID NOTHING WRONG. They're already taking away his BB Justicar Trueheart, that's enough. You guys can have Alexstraza's Champion and Kor'kron Elite and Charge, but don't take away his control tools.

I like the title/achievement system elder scrolls legends has, Hearthstone should copy that.

That would be so sick. I have the two golden heroes I want, so other than trying to get to higher ranks than I have before, I don't have much to work towards.

Now if I play for a couple hours and I don't gain significant ranks I feel like I've accomplished nothing. If I had titles to work for, or even if my wins past 500 were tallied somewhere, I could at least feel some sense of accomplishment.

 

[squidyj]

I don't think trolling me / making sure I have a bad time when I'm doing you a favor is worthy of a medal.

Fine.
A plaque then.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't think I fully agree with this idea of printing cards to deal with problematic, over powered cards.

You wanna know how Blizzard attempts to lessen the power level of War Axe? They print stuff like Haunted Creeper, Minibot, Mad Scientist and Nerubian Egg. Great... you have made War Axe significantly worse but at the same time you have messed up the entire meta game as well.

Same thing for Execute... you print minions that spawn additional minions like Dr Boom or minions that have powerful Deathrattles.


It's really not worth power creeping the game to make the already powerful cards less powerful. I don't think War Axe should be nerfed because it's a good litmus test for how the meta game is progressing and at this stage, War Axe has lost a bit of its power again with stuff like Kindly Grandmother and Possessed Villager in the game.