Super Nothing
Member
How is Fiery War Axe ranked above Barnes and Call of the Wild and Flamewreathed Faceless isn't even in the top 5?
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Mobius and pet octopus
Member
This list, prob bad, but gonna give it a shot
So it's wrong to want the class to be viable but not made viable the way they did it? That's more than reasonable.
So it's wrong to want the class to be viable but not made viable the way they did it? That's more than reasonable.
cartographer
Member
Shaman is still good without Tuskarr Totemic. It was good without FWF, too.
I don't think there's anything inconsistent with the displeasure in how Shaman was made good. They could introduce a bullshit priest card tomorrow and priest could rocket up the competitive list, but that doesn't change the card being bullshit.
I think that's a pretty good list actually (top 5). War Axe ban makes it that not everyone brings a warrior, it makes for a interesting format for once, I don't hate the card but for a fun format it needs to happen. The rest are the obvious offenders. Doomhammer and 7/7s are actually cut from the newest lists believe it or not. What's setting aggro and midrange shaman apart right now is the inclusion of thunder bluff, hex and manatide or burn spells. They play almost the same cards otherwise...
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Because tuskar totemic high rolls 3/7 times and FF is always just a 7/7 for 4 mana and 2 overload. And barnes people see as another bad RNG card that can just decide games. In my opinion, barnes is potentially a problem but I'm not convinced it's that oppressive so far.
For all the memes about 4 mana 7/7, it's not nearly as broken as people complaining about it make it out to be.
What is there to not understand? Those are high roller toxic cards, with 477 you know what you are getting. It's the same thing as Call of the Wild, an OP card but one you can at least play around and doesn't have feels bad RNG.
And 477 BARELY didn't make the cut.
BananasWithGuns
Member
If you want to ban Tuskarr, fine, I get that.
What annoys me is all the others cards on that list, none of which are broken outside of the Doomhammer/Rockbiter combo. Like, seriously, people actually think Totem Golem is too strong? Really?
What annoys me is all the others cards on that list, none of which are broken outside of the Doomhammer/Rockbiter combo. Like, seriously, people actually think Totem Golem is too strong? Really?
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
i fully support getting rid of tuskar.
the problem with totem though is that you basically have to build every single deck assuming that the 1/3 will get overloaded and you'll have tuskar so how do you deal with 3/3+3/4 on turn 2? its ridiculous how important that is in current deck building.
the problem with totem though is that you basically have to build every single deck assuming that the 1/3 will get overloaded and you'll have tuskar so how do you deal with 3/3+3/4 on turn 2? its ridiculous how important that is in current deck building.
Batstone:
Zoo, Druid (maybe w/ Onyxia instead of Yogg), Aggro Shaman (lol at Doomhammer making the cut), Questing Rogue and probably Dragon Warrior (w/ King's Defender maybe?) look to be the decks to beat at the tournament. No War Axe is less important when you have Alexstraza's Champion on two.
I voted Yogg, Call of the Wild, Doomhammer and Tuskarr Totemic. Surprised Fiery War Axe is still so hated--the bitter Reddit assholes salty that their turn one Mana Wyrms, Tunnel Troggs and Flame Imps get punished are still circle jerking about it, I guess.
If I was photoshop savvy I'd put a black ribbon on my avatar.
Press F to pay respects.
Zoo, Druid (maybe w/ Onyxia instead of Yogg), Aggro Shaman (lol at Doomhammer making the cut), Questing Rogue and probably Dragon Warrior (w/ King's Defender maybe?) look to be the decks to beat at the tournament. No War Axe is less important when you have Alexstraza's Champion on two.
I voted Yogg, Call of the Wild, Doomhammer and Tuskarr Totemic. Surprised Fiery War Axe is still so hated--the bitter Reddit assholes salty that their turn one Mana Wyrms, Tunnel Troggs and Flame Imps get punished are still circle jerking about it, I guess.
If I was photoshop savvy I'd put a black ribbon on my avatar.
Press F to pay respects.Why are you catching feels over a bunch of Shaman cards that didn't make the cut? Warrior got hit the hardest since they lost a vital tool in their arsenal. Shamans will just replace Tuskar with another degenerate high roller minion like Flame Juggler and just move along. Shaman still has the highest quantity of blatantly over powered cards/combinations in the game so it's not shocking a bunch of them were in there.
And honestly the 5 bans are not enough to shake things up. Zoo and Shaman are still going to dominate, Druid and especially Beast Druid will still be a thing.
BananasWithGuns
Member
There's more than one way to make a class better. Unfortunately since Paladin Blizzard has gone full WoW and just throws blatantly broken cards at the given expansion's darling, which not only makes for terrible metas but also actively works against ever achieving a state resembling balance. It's straight up bad for the game's long-term health and that's not even getting into the issue of all the new class-defining cards being nothing but bland-ass obscene tempo bombs.
You'll be able to say the same thing re: Priest's 3 mana 5/8 next expansion, which will rightfully frustrate the playerbase despite previous cries for 'better' Priest cards.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Back to back games lost single handedly to Yogg makes me now understand why people are against it for ladder games too. I'm still not on board a full nerf, but I can see why it's not very fun to lose to one card you have no control over.
How am I supposed to play arround two turn lethal when the druid has no board and I have over 20 life? Pyroblast + mind blast for 15 damage, plus built unkillable board with deathrattles and taunts while freezing my board, and not really that late in the game with that many spells too.
How am I supposed to play arround two turn lethal when the druid has no board and I have over 20 life? Pyroblast + mind blast for 15 damage, plus built unkillable board with deathrattles and taunts while freezing my board, and not really that late in the game with that many spells too.
Lava burst sucks.
Anything that kills me basically.
FWF really doesn't seem to be the problem with the class though. Dealing with a turn 4 FWF is such a huge loss of tempo that they basically just lose.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I actually dc'd because I summoned too many fireballs, I got 5 total. At least my remaining actions went off before I DC'd..
Spoiler:
Yogg did not save him
Spoiler:
Yogg did not save him
477, Tunnel Trogg and Thing from Below.
Blatantly over powered cards that everyone runs two of in every Shaman deck because you would have to be dumb not to.
It's too early to say right now but Maelstrom Portal is a powerful card and one of the very few instances of actual power creep in the game.
War axe has always been hated. It gives warrior a huge swing in the early game and is the biggest reason that warrior has consistently been able to survive the early game, thus being the de-facto control class in the game. That being said, I don't agree with the War Axe ban, but I can see why people might dislike it.
Letting the community decide bans is a good and bad thing for this reason. It's going to be messy for a while, as the community decides what game it wants. It's easy to see that Yogg needs to be banned. Everything below that is less clear, and there's going to be some disagreement as to what needs to be removed. That's growing pains.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Basic totem only would work, or making it only discount while in hand. Perhaps make it cost 3 minimum.
It's always been called fiery win axe for a reason you know. Not just scrubs think FWA is potentially a problematic card to have around in standard forever. Same with 1 mana execute. These cards have only gotten better as they add cards like blood to ichor and ravaging ghoul.
I think it's mostly crybaby tempo/zoo/aggro players who don't want their OP 1 and 2 drops two-for-oned.
One of the very few cards that can slow down tempo / midrange decks and of course the community bans it because that's what the majority play.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You act like it isn't an amazing tempo card, ie warrior/dragon warrior. Warrior plays a 1 drop and kills your 2 drop with FWA, then they also likely kill your 3 drop with FWA back end even if it's 4 hp due to blood to ichor or ravaging ghoul. They gain such a huge lead off FWA, it's not surprising even slightly that people want to ban FWA.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with banning it in a tournament setting, but I can understand what their issue is and I don't flippantly dismiss it as the rants of a scrub/aggro player.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Flamewreathed is not overpowered. I don't know why people are still on that train. Midrange doesn't even run that card anymore. It's pretty much just a Fel Reaver for aggro Shaman at this point.
Trogg is a similar situation. Midrange is starting to cut it for Argent Squire because outside of Totem Golem the overload isn't worth it. If aggro Shaman didn't exist, Trogg would be nothing more than a worse Mana Wyrm.
And Thing From Below is fine. Calling that "blatantly overpowered" is laughable.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Few people explore the ultimate combo, cursed blade and violet illusionist.
Dust 99.9% of goldens when starting out, imo. I kept golden legendaries or epics I knew I wanted (Tyrion and Cabal SPriest), but that's about it. If you play long enough, you'll get to the point where you may want to start keeping them, but that's up to you.
If you spend any money on the game, adventures are the best value. Otherwise, prioritize wings or packs based on the cards you want.
Agree to disagree here. You probably have a different definition of what over powered means compared to everyone else.
If the target was Dragon Warrior, the community would have banned Alexstraza's Champion.
Also look at Brawl getting so many votes. Another card that punishes Board Flood decks, one that Tempo/Dragon Warrior doesn't even run.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
BTW, I think people are forgetting or don't even know the whole point of bans for firebat's tournament. It's not to ban salty/OP cards, it's to create a very different tournament environment, totally different meta, so that players would have to figure out what the best decks are. If you don't ban cards like FWA or yogg, they don't even have to try, they already know the meta.
This isn't about scrubs or aggro players wanting to ban cards from blizcon, it's about creating a different meta.
@levi, alex's champion is on the list, and alex only affects dragon warrior and not tempo warrior
This isn't about scrubs or aggro players wanting to ban cards from blizcon, it's about creating a different meta.
@levi, alex's champion is on the list, and alex only affects dragon warrior and not tempo warrior
TFB is very OP. It cost too little, very very easy to make it cost 0 and unlike giants it does have taunt. It can create very stupid swings with no real investment or risk. It's even worse when you play two of them at the same time for almost no mana. Your opponent suddenly loses, there is no counter play either. It comes down protecting a mana tide and the game snowballs from there.
I had hoped that the point was to ban high variance and blatantly over-powered cards so that the tournament results were more skill based.
I didn't realize it was supposed to be a gimmick tournament, Challengestone redux.
I bet people still bring Dragon Warrior, because if they curve out with Alexstraza's Champion into King's Defender not having FWA isn't even going to matter.
At least Warrior might still have viable decks, I really doubt anyone is going to attempt to bring Hunter to this thing. You can't curve into COTW and you can't Yogg'n'Load, so what's the point?
Tempo Warrior hasn't been a competitive deck for a long time, I really doubt anyone voting to ban FWA was considering that outdated deck at all.
I also think it's telling that WAY more people voted to ban FWA than voted to ban AC.
I also want it noted that I personally didn't refer to people playing midrange/tempo/aggro decks as "scrubs". It isn't scrubby to want to play the best and most viable decks in the game. It's actually more scrubby to stick with bad decks and lose and then blame everyone else for your losses.
cartographer
Member
Nah, you just called them "crybaby" lol.
Don't worry, War Axe isn't going anywhere. It's not being played for one tournament.It will be a staple part of Warrior for years to come.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I like corrupted seer enough in control paladin that I kinda want to try it in a midrange or aggro murloc deck. An aggro deck having access to such a powerful aoe could be very strong.
In control it's like having double the chance to pull consecration vs aggro, and curator fishes for it.
http://i.imgur.com/HwGGLzL.png current list for control paladin, I am experimenting control paladin with dragons
In control it's like having double the chance to pull consecration vs aggro, and curator fishes for it.
http://i.imgur.com/HwGGLzL.png current list for control paladin, I am experimenting control paladin with dragons
Looking back on Knight of the Wild is hilarious, now that Thing From Below is a (ahem) thing. Knight of the Wild's cost reduction is a lot harder to achieve since it needs to be in your hand and you can't just use hero power if you don't happen to have any beasts. Plus you get a worse minion at the end. Nice job, Blizz!
Yup. I've long felt that Thing From Below is more annoyingly OP than Flamewreathed. Not sure why the "4 mana 7/7" became such a meme.
Perfect synergy with both hero power and Shaman's amazing early game (Totem Golem, Tuskarr, Flametongue, etc.) ensures it will always come out as a 1 or 0 mana 5/5 with Taunt. Totally balanced!
Just the 900 or so that voted to ban FWA. 😜
He wasn't winning that game anyway. Jaraxxus is very, very strong against Cw.
He actually would have come real close. I'm still very bad at playing control and I don't know the matchup really well at all.
But me taking 2 damage at fatigue and him taking 8 was unsustainable.
I think I tapped too much throughout the game.
Thing From Below is balanced in a world where Totem Golem doesn't exist. As long as Tuskarr Totemic can pull a fucking 3/4 Shaman will be OP. When all of a sudden it can't. The card will seem fine. If you get hella lucky and get Flametongue or Mana Tide its not nearly as bad as Totem Golem.
Princess Carl
Member
yup. totem golem changes everything about Tuskarr. Personally, I don't think they really thought about the interaction at all really. Or how the card is fundamentally different from all other totems, but it's treated the same. smh.
This is the true stuff right here.
Tuskarr and Totem Golem have been around for a while now. They came in TGT together. If one recalls correctly, they didn't explode Shaman off the map. A 3/4 for 2 that Overloaded you basically wrecked your curve. And while Tuskarr pulling Golem was nice, it had a chance to pull Vitality.
Then LoE came, and actually gave Shaman a class 1-drop that didn't completely suck balls in Tunnel Trogg. It actually synergized with Overload's crappiness, meaning you actually wanted to play Totem Golem. Thus, the combination of cards is what made the total greater than the sum.
The biggest buff though? Switching to Standard, nerfing other class cards, and running effects like Silence into the ground. This allowed the WOG cards like TFB to flourish, but it also means stuff like Flametongue and Manatide no longer have to fear becoming 0-attack wasted board space.
Yep. It isn't hard to pinpoint when Shaman became strong, but by the discussion there is certainly some debate on the main culprit. Like anything it is probably just the combination of strong new cards and the removal of counters available in standard.
Prior to LOE, when Shaman was the worst Class, I was grinding the golden hero portrait using Banana Shaman with Mukla's Champion, Tuskarr, Totem Golem and Bloodlust. It did really well for me, but there was nobody complaining about Totem Golem or Tuskarr at the time. It played almost exactly like the Totem/Witchdoctor Shaman does now, but had a much harder time keeping the board against certain classes.
I also spent a lot of time playing aggro mech shaman because it was fast games. Both of these decks were ladder viable and this was when Shaman was Preist levels of bad.
Tunnel Trog pushed Shaman over the edge and Standard has made Shaman the premier class. So much so that Dragon Warrior became the most played class, specifically because it was the counter to Shaman.
This loser Rogue played Reno twice and was still gonna lose but got bailed out by Yogg RNG.
They need to dumpster this card ASAP as its not even worth playing this game when you outplay an opponent into fatigue and then just lose because they get a bunch of favorable Yogg RNG.
No cards left in their deck, Yogg draws them zero cards, buffs their board and removes mine, heals their face and mindblasts me. Wtf.
They need to dumpster this card ASAP as its not even worth playing this game when you outplay an opponent into fatigue and then just lose because they get a bunch of favorable Yogg RNG.
No cards left in their deck, Yogg draws them zero cards, buffs their board and removes mine, heals their face and mindblasts me. Wtf.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I've revamped my wild deck due to all the face decks twice now but I just continue to lose to them anyway.
It tookeeps me less than 2 hours to get to 10 but since then I've been losing 2 games for every game I win.
It tookeeps me less than 2 hours to get to 10 but since then I've been losing 2 games for every game I win.
The counter to Yogg is Yogg. The madness is real.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
If there is no clear counter to a 10 drop in the game that has been fed the entire game. It's not the worst thing ever. I just wish it wasn't so RNG based.
And it's not like you can't mitigate yogg's impact. If you're way ahead in the game, you don't overcommit into yogg, you can reduce it's impact.
It's still a card that should be nerfed or removed, but the fact that it's difficult or perhaps even impossible to counter, that's not the problem.
Flamewreathed Faceless is OP but it isn't Dr. Boom or Mysterious Challenger levels of broken. It is closer to Piloted Shredder in terms of power level, but has higher highs and lower lows. Despite its vanilla stats it is actually one of the most frustrating "RNG" cards, because your opponent has to have the answer or they lose. If it was a 7/6 you could more reliably trade into it and it would be fair.
Thing From Below is arguably worse. It is just a little too easy to make it cheap and get a huge tempo swing in a class that already stays ahead on board right now. That's why even Aggro Shaman runs it. Plus the fact that it has taunt means you are basically forced to deal with it. So it is much more likely to be in a position where the tempo gain is guaranteed.
Thing From Below is arguably worse. It is just a little too easy to make it cheap and get a huge tempo swing in a class that already stays ahead on board right now. That's why even Aggro Shaman runs it. Plus the fact that it has taunt means you are basically forced to deal with it. So it is much more likely to be in a position where the tempo gain is guaranteed.
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