slightconfuse
Banned
Been playing a mid ranged dragon paladin. It's slow but really good if it gets going
Resurrect priest is cool a swell
Resurrect priest is cool a swell
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- Thread starter ZealousD
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Of the top 5 list only War Axe is really a bad ban.
Call of the Wild isn't an RNG card but it's definitely an over powered card and it's definitely a play on curve card like Dr Boom or Tirion. Like there are very few situations where on turn 8 you have Call of the Wild in hand and you don't want to play it.
If pro players were in charge of that list they would definitely ban out Yogg, Barnes and Tuskar as those three have repeatedly come up as problems. Call of the Wild and 477 would've been the other two (as even pro players think those cards are a bit too powerful), no way would the pros ban out War Axe.
I am kinda sad that Firebat did this tournament first because I had a very similar idea like this for a tournament for GAF. Only I was going to have Bans and Limited cards. My ban list only had 3 cards but the Limited list was longer.
I think the main problem with the Firebat tournament is going to be that ultimately it will not change much and you will still have the top decks like Zoo dominate. And it also has the side effect of severely handicapping the Warrior class. For these wacky side tournaments I think it's important to have rulesets that significantly alter meta decks so that you don't just bring your net decks to the tournament... it should be a better deck building challenge than that.
Call of the Wild isn't an RNG card but it's definitely an over powered card and it's definitely a play on curve card like Dr Boom or Tirion. Like there are very few situations where on turn 8 you have Call of the Wild in hand and you don't want to play it.
If pro players were in charge of that list they would definitely ban out Yogg, Barnes and Tuskar as those three have repeatedly come up as problems. Call of the Wild and 477 would've been the other two (as even pro players think those cards are a bit too powerful), no way would the pros ban out War Axe.
I am kinda sad that Firebat did this tournament first because I had a very similar idea like this for a tournament for GAF. Only I was going to have Bans and Limited cards. My ban list only had 3 cards but the Limited list was longer.
I think the main problem with the Firebat tournament is going to be that ultimately it will not change much and you will still have the top decks like Zoo dominate. And it also has the side effect of severely handicapping the Warrior class. For these wacky side tournaments I think it's important to have rulesets that significantly alter meta decks so that you don't just bring your net decks to the tournament... it should be a better deck building challenge than that.
The whole point of this tournament was to see what would happen if you let the community decide a ban list.
If the result is dumb bullshit then that's still a success, because it tells you "hey, if you just let the community decide on what to ban in your tournaments, it's going to be dumb bullshit."
I'm happy Call of the Wild is banned because it punishes control and I want to see slower decks prosper in this tournament.
Longer games = more decisions = more meaningful outcomes.
I admit I'm very biased.
Banning FWA already means we won't see any meaningful Warrior Control decks which is a bummer, as that is my favorite archetype to spectate.
Seems like Zoo is probably going to be in every line up. With no Warrior, we'll probably get some freeze mages to counter the zoo players, and I find Freeze Mage exceptionally boring to watch (except possibly in the mirror).
Aggro Shaman will be fine. They might run Unbound Elemental or put in more AOE (second Maelstrom, second storm?), more burn or even some draw to get them closer to their power cards.
Token Druid should still be strong. They lose their only strong comeback mechanic but it's still a deck that can snowball out of control and beat anything with the right draw. I'm very curious if Token Druid can prosper without their "oh shit" button. I know Sjow was experimenting with a Token list that excluded Yogg, although I don't know how successful it was.
I'm sure we'll see some Rogue and some Paladin. We won't see any Hunters. Unlikely we'll see many Warriors since it's much more likely Warrior will be behind on board early, which is crippling in a tempo meta.
I hope that never again is a ban list chosen by freakin' Reddit, though. Let the players decide and not some dumb echo chamber so up their own ass they think FWA is a significant problem in the game.
Longer games = more decisions = more meaningful outcomes.
I admit I'm very biased.
Banning FWA already means we won't see any meaningful Warrior Control decks which is a bummer, as that is my favorite archetype to spectate.
Seems like Zoo is probably going to be in every line up. With no Warrior, we'll probably get some freeze mages to counter the zoo players, and I find Freeze Mage exceptionally boring to watch (except possibly in the mirror).
Aggro Shaman will be fine. They might run Unbound Elemental or put in more AOE (second Maelstrom, second storm?), more burn or even some draw to get them closer to their power cards.
Token Druid should still be strong. They lose their only strong comeback mechanic but it's still a deck that can snowball out of control and beat anything with the right draw. I'm very curious if Token Druid can prosper without their "oh shit" button. I know Sjow was experimenting with a Token list that excluded Yogg, although I don't know how successful it was.
I'm sure we'll see some Rogue and some Paladin. We won't see any Hunters. Unlikely we'll see many Warriors since it's much more likely Warrior will be behind on board early, which is crippling in a tempo meta.
I hope that never again is a ban list chosen by freakin' Reddit, though. Let the players decide and not some dumb echo chamber so up their own ass they think FWA is a significant problem in the game.
And what happens if you don't win with those? Is it still the game's fault you're losing? Still the community's fault for playing "scum" decks? If you think these decks take "no thought" good luck increasing your win rate in the bad match ups or in the mirror against someone who is actually planning out their turns.
Playing curve decks optimally still takes some skill, some decision making. It might be hard to admit but there are really good players who choose to play "scum" decks, and just playing those same cards isn't some magic bullet for easy climbing.
Curve decks might be easier for bad players to win with, because you can be bailed out by draws, but there's still skill involved in maximizing your win rate, especially when you draw poorly.
Take a break, because you sound tilted, and when you get back realize that "scum" decks aren't unbeatable.
I recommend you do play them yourself, though, so you can see what their weaknesses are and you can play better against them with whatever decks you've arbitrarily decided aren't scummy.
I also recommend reading this, as it sounds like you're handicapping yourself with these false classifications:
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win
I've been (and will be again) where you are, blaming everything else for my win rate instead of looking at myself and what I can control.
FormallyFamicom
Member
I still remember when GAF wanted Acidic Swamp Ooze to be nerfed. Community balance discussions are always fun times.
FormallyFamicom
Member
Yeah, not really.. some of these pro had stupid ass opinion
Thijs and Kolento on record said War Axe is stupidly OP at their stream. RDU said Axe should've nerfed and act like cursed blade if you swung it.. I won't trust those guy too
Across 3 turns, I heal for 18, play 3 3/6 taunts, Rag Lightlord and a Tirion and this aggro shaman manages to loses by me only at 5. Last turn I was at 22, he had 15 from hand plus hunter hero power. Doomhammer definitely not OP, EleGiggle. He didn't even have a board in 2 turns, lol. If I didn't get anyfin from Ivory Knight I'd have lost, only that could have saved me. RNG increases skill sometimes I guess (And justice).
Well now we know where these community members get their opinions from.
At this point I'm used to card game communities never being happy with their game, in every single one of them I have never seen one where the vast majority of the community is fine. In the case of HS though the criticism is really on point
Hope to see changes in the game soon, I think that I'm not on the mood of more negativity on discussions. (And I have been trying more CCG and in all of them people are complaining, in some they are even complaining about HS lol).
And for the record, as someone who his second favorite class is warrior, I too think that FWA is op, with that weapon most of the time you can nullify the tempo of your opponent for 2 turns, and since Warrior has no troubles with life, the damage factor is not that important.
I don't know if is ban worthy, but should be nerfed, at least I had screwed/being screwed by FWA way more than call of the wild
Hope to see changes in the game soon, I think that I'm not on the mood of more negativity on discussions. (And I have been trying more CCG and in all of them people are complaining, in some they are even complaining about HS lol).
And for the record, as someone who his second favorite class is warrior, I too think that FWA is op, with that weapon most of the time you can nullify the tempo of your opponent for 2 turns, and since Warrior has no troubles with life, the damage factor is not that important.
I don't know if is ban worthy, but should be nerfed, at least I had screwed/being screwed by FWA way more than call of the wild
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Think I'm gonna make a push to try and get into single digits today, I've had a strong win rate all month but I haven't been putting much time in.
Boar Control's Shaman List is just too good.
Which deck is that?
veryslowhand
Banned
I find this season to be more annoying to ladder, struggling at rank 13
You can tell it isn't aggro because a real aggro deck wouldn't run Thunder Bluff Valiant or Al'Akir. KEK.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
LOL yup. And he called it control shaman... it's far from control shaman.
The difference has come to like 5 cards between so called good guy midrange shaman and the devil aggro shaman. They just keep printing general purpose shaman cards that are too good no matter what deck you stick them in, it's become a boring homogeneous class. Paladin was same deal too, every paladin deck was playing same turn 1-5 cards plus a whole other bunch of same cards. Like 20+ of 30 cards in the decks were same between secret paly and midrange paladin, it just comes off as lazy.
Paladin is a lot more interesting now with all of that junk out. I don't think the class is weak, it's just too balanced, it does nothing unfair. It also has next to no RNG, overall it makes the class weaker against the meta. Can't even yogg in paladin. I think this is what power level they should aim for in general not like old paladin and present shaman. Dragon paladin is fun, it's like a real midrange deck not that thing with 9 1 mana cards.
Paladin is a lot more interesting now with all of that junk out. I don't think the class is weak, it's just too balanced, it does nothing unfair. It also has next to no RNG, overall it makes the class weaker against the meta. Can't even yogg in paladin. I think this is what power level they should aim for in general not like old paladin and present shaman. Dragon paladin is fun, it's like a real midrange deck not that thing with 9 1 mana cards.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
My opponent OTK worgen warrior conceded after my skillful yogg reduced his ET to 1 health and then sniped it. TBF, he had the time to play around it.
To be fair, when I was arguing that midrange Shaman was actually just a slightly slower variant of aggro Shaman that list was running FWF and Doomhammer, both very aggressive cards.
Since then I've learned a lot about deck classifications. This list is probably aggressive-tempo or tempo-midrange, but in Hearthstone in general we do a poor job of classifying decks and we don't really take into account that a deck can be in more than classification at a time. Look at "Tempo Warrior", which is much more a midrange deck than a tempo deck.
I don't think I ever called this list a Control List. I take control very seriously. There's a lot you can criticize me for but you don't need to make things up to make me look bad.
Again, I've learned that deck classifications in Hearthstone don't often match the actual playstyle of the deck, and I don't sweat it anymore. I'm not going to be the pedantic guy going "Well Actually", if the guy who made the list calls it midrange, and it's listed as midrange on the community sites, I'm going to call it midrange.
(Maybe it should be called Spellpower Shaman to note that it's a midrange/tempo deck that runs Spellpower synergy cards in order to differentiate it from other midrange/tempo Shaman builds.)
Yeah, this Shaman deck isn't super hard to pilot or super innovative but it gets the job down if you want to climb ranked.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Justice Versus Freeze Mage
It literally says control in the name and was an obvious and pointed out mistake... I was only joking anyway.
It literally says control in the name and was an obvious and pointed out mistake... I was only joking anyway.
cartographer
Member
These really are the best games. They always concede before I can fireball their face off.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
These really are the best games. They always concede before I can fireball their face off.
I'm happy I didn't DC like last time (I did reconnect though)
I'm not even sure my line of play was best, but it sure was fun to pull 5 fireballs.
That game my ethereal peddler hit 5 cards. Simply amazing. Mirror images, frost dude, flamestrike, antonidas, frost armor. So basically I played a 5 mana ET that generated 8 mana instantly.
Kibler was playing on stream I think a few times.
slightconfuse
Banned
Is dragon Druid a thing??
Just played one
Just played one
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Rank 5, final boss was a hunter whom I smashed. If you hate when people drop huge minions and go face, try playing rogue. Sap is your best friend. Auctioneer + coin + sap a highmane = lul. Sap is also quite good against 4 mana 77.
74% winrate with the current thief rogue deck I am running.
74% winrate with the current thief rogue deck I am running.
I feel Miracle Rogue is really strong in this meta right now that Shamans aren't playing aggro variants as much.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Miracle seems okay. Burgle rogue seems a lot more fun though and I feel has more versatility than miracle rogue does.
It wasn't a mistake. Boar Control is the name of the player who created this list. He also created the popular tempo warrior list that popped up right after Old Gods.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I didn't see that. I'm glad someone spoke up.
slightconfuse
Banned
suprised at the hate for Hunter. it can be very inconsistent if they dont get early drops. Call is really only good late game.
Big bad wolf. Firebat. Huge Toad. That isn't even taking into account several variants to dominate early game.
How CAN'T you have a strong early to mid game? Most hunter game losses tend to be lost by the thinnest of margins because of this.
They also have the best 3 mana spell in the game. Hunter gets all the hate it deserves.
Hunter cards are just blatantly strong without rng factor in them (beside animal companion).
Dealing with Highmane into CotW is just wreck all non shaman decks.
Karsticles
Member
It's mostly that it's the class with the lowest skill cap. And I say that as someone 4 wins from a golden Hunter portrait. The Hero Power has no thought to it at all, and the class's minions are designed to be drop and trade - there are almost no Hunter minions with interesting abilities to play around with.
Oh they have interesting minions with interesting abilities...
But no one plays them because they don't fit into the curve god, aggro style of Hunter.
mrpallyguy
Member
I like hunters because its easy to play and the hero is one of my favorite characters from warcraft but I wish there was a viable control archetype for hunters. Too bad blizzard will never make the cards to do it.
damn I like that one.. but I don't have the Al'Akir or the thuderbluffs (Not crafting them! NOPE)
also. no 477??
Don't bother without the Thunderbluffs. They are pretty essential.
As far as FWF, if it's removed easily, it's a pretty big tempo loss. I can see why he doesn't run it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Seems like twitch died... they probably insulted yogg's mom... meaning I might actually have to play hearthstone to enjoy it atm.
Kotetsu534
Member
It does seem like with every Hunter running double CotW, the best strategy is too just go rambo on them right from the start to try to put them under enough pressure to back off, since surviving a CotW without a large lead is often impossible. It sucks that the best way to play against the most naturally aggro class is to... be even more aggro.
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