That's more player style/mentality than card strength.
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
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slightconfuse
Banned
This HTC mayhem is pretty fun. There needs to be more stuff like this
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I think C'thun and Control Warrior might consider Don Hon'Cho by himself, at least for slower metas. Just an easy play when you have nothing else to do, and creates a good opportunity for a bigger swing later.
For snowballadin, by the time you play Don Hon'Cho you probably often have him 6/7 or 7/8 making the drop on curve be not so bad of a tempo play.
For snowballadin, by the time you play Don Hon'Cho you probably often have him 6/7 or 7/8 making the drop on curve be not so bad of a tempo play.
What a boring legendary, you'd think they'd at least give you the choice of target for what should be the centrepiece of Grimy Goon decks. Unless you can hit a card like the hunter 2/4, it does very little for you in a meta that will be full of Hexes, Executes, Deaths and Entombs.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
But, it could hit a 1 drop making it into a 6 drop for only 1 mana. Or it could hit dopplegangster and you summon 3x 7/7s.
I think it has potential.
And it could totally whiff as well, that's why you should be able to choose the target with what is probably the heaviest card in your deck, at least in a zoo-like paladin.
That's gonna be a thing for sure. Not that hard for a hunter to isolate a minion in hand.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It will, but only if the rest of the deck is good. I don't think that interaction is worth running on it's own. Even if you can isolate the card, you gotta play a 7 drop first... When it works, great, but I don't think you can count on that happening.
Thematically, not only is buffing your cards by +1/+1 boring, but the leader is also boring, simply being a larger quantity of stats. Such a nifty design of a character wasted.
Ol' Donny's biggest claim to fame will, ironically, be gambling on Doppleganster, as if you manage to hit it, you win 7-7-7.
Ol' Donny's biggest claim to fame will, ironically, be gambling on Doppleganster, as if you manage to hit it, you win 7-7-7.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Maybe that 3/5 windfury is playable. If you buff it up enough it could be very difficult to deal with and also capable of finishing the game on it's own. I like the buff hand theme because it makes you revisit your thoughts on a lot of old cards, since minion's scale at different rates. +5/+5 is not equal to all minions.
Like miladesn said, the best combo with Don seems to be something with charge, so Argent Horserider stands out the most. 10 mana for a 5/6 and a 7/6 divine shield charge.
In theory his battlecry is incredibly strong. Blessing of kings is +4/+4 for 4 by itself, but the strength of a card like that is it is almost always effectively 'charge' since its immediate impact will hit a minion either trading or going face, which then ideally forces the opponent to use removal which continues to give inititive to whoever used the buff. These Goon cards are all opposite in being rather slow and clunky with value coming later. Don might be way too slow to work, but you might be able to pull off some sort of bullshit.
The hardest part of evaluating a card to me is sometimes less about the card itself and if it's viable to build around.
Most obvious example for this in HS would be Mysterious Challenger. Like, that card is busted--it can draw and play up to 5 cards from your deck. Thins it out, has a strong statline despite that, etc. It was meta defining due to the degenerate curving, where plopping him down with board advantage was straight up checkmate in certain matchups.
But post-rotation the card still exists and basically vanished, what does that mean for the card? Is Challenger S or A tier? Without the curve it loses out on so much power that it just doesn't quite work...but the card is still ridiculous.
The couple to this is Menagerie Warden. That effect with that statline I still say is just busted. But the deck didn't break out quite like a lot of people expected...does that mean Warden was overrated and isn't that good, or the rest of the deck just still isn't quite there, but eventually could be and that card is the next defining meta staple?
That to me is why it's so hard to look at some of these. I'd say a good amount are pretty standard at looking at, like it's really obvious when you see a good for arena but will never be constructed good card. But there can be times where a really strong card actually just doesn't really pan out, and I don't know if that means the card was actually not strong or not.
Yeah, the buff working well with other minions you don't see is actually one of the more exciting parts of it.
We may very well see a day where we put Angry Chicken willingly into our decks.
In theory his battlecry is incredibly strong. Blessing of kings is +4/+4 for 4 by itself, but the strength of a card like that is it is almost always effectively 'charge' since its immediate impact will hit a minion either trading or going face, which then ideally forces the opponent to use removal which continues to give inititive to whoever used the buff. These Goon cards are all opposite in being rather slow and clunky with value coming later. Don might be way too slow to work, but you might be able to pull off some sort of bullshit.
The hardest part of evaluating a card to me is sometimes less about the card itself and if it's viable to build around.
Most obvious example for this in HS would be Mysterious Challenger. Like, that card is busted--it can draw and play up to 5 cards from your deck. Thins it out, has a strong statline despite that, etc. It was meta defining due to the degenerate curving, where plopping him down with board advantage was straight up checkmate in certain matchups.
But post-rotation the card still exists and basically vanished, what does that mean for the card? Is Challenger S or A tier? Without the curve it loses out on so much power that it just doesn't quite work...but the card is still ridiculous.
The couple to this is Menagerie Warden. That effect with that statline I still say is just busted. But the deck didn't break out quite like a lot of people expected...does that mean Warden was overrated and isn't that good, or the rest of the deck just still isn't quite there, but eventually could be and that card is the next defining meta staple?
That to me is why it's so hard to look at some of these. I'd say a good amount are pretty standard at looking at, like it's really obvious when you see a good for arena but will never be constructed good card. But there can be times where a really strong card actually just doesn't really pan out, and I don't know if that means the card was actually not strong or not.
Yeah, the buff working well with other minions you don't see is actually one of the more exciting parts of it.
We may very well see a day where we put Angry Chicken willingly into our decks.
Here's the thing though...
Why buff bad cards to be good when I can buff good cards to be even better?
I think an exception to this may be charge minions. This could make bad charge minions more playable.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Because not every card scales the same when buffed. Prime example is dopplegangster. It's FON without buff, pretty bad. Pretty strong once it gets buffed even a single time imo, and strong one it hits 4/4.
Another would be a divine shield or windfury minion, and even charge minions. Maybe it doesn't become good enough or the strategy isn't consistent enough, but it does make you go back and think about it and perhaps test it out. A 5 mana 8/10 windfury could be really devastating in enough match ups to be worth as a tech choice if it falls short of being used all the time.
I think you play Argent Horserider and probably Argent Commander in that type of deck anyway if you want that playstyle. And neither of those cards are bad anyway.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
You could go all-in on minions and card draw so you always have a bunch of stuff in your hand to get the hand buffs:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/667962-minion-snowballadin
Soggoth and Doppleganger would be the finishers after they get buffed up enough.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/667962-minion-snowballadin
Soggoth and Doppleganger would be the finishers after they get buffed up enough.
Eh, it scales well with multiple buffs but I think you want something that you can play by itself. Something like Argent Squire makes more sense imo.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Man, imagine hitting Wickerflame with Han'Cho.
Now THAT would be disgusting.
Now THAT would be disgusting.
Portugeezer
Member
Legendary and still only effects a minion "randomly"... already bored of this new hand buff theme and it hasn't even been released yet.
I do agree that we should look back at previous "almost good" cards that might be stronger with random stat boosts.
Just going through the list of cards in Karazhan, TGT, OG and LoE:
Karazhan: Runic Egg is the main one from this. It's pretty easy to make it a superior Loot Hoarder. I think in this deck you kinda want a health hand size to make sure your hand keeps gettting buffed.
Aside from that Karazhan doesn't really have any minion that is particularly good with hand buffs.
Old Gods: Forlorn Stalker can synergize with other hand buff cards to create a Buff Deathrattle deck for Hunters. Seems like that was the precursor for these Grimstreet cards.
C'thun itself and C'thun minions come to mind particular Crazed Worshiper. This isn't that strong of a synergy though but if you want more minion focused C'thun deck for the tri class then this might work.
Psychotron is a nice buff target.
Darkspeaker REALLY caught my eyes if it does interact that way. It's 3/6 base stats but if you buff it up a couple of times then you could buff a minion big time on the board. Seems like this card was made weak on purpose to prepare for the hand buff mechanic in the future.
Scaled Nightmare even if starts out as 3-4 attack is a big deal. Another potential Dragon option for Warrior and Paladin.
Corrupted Hogger is a good target for hand buffs. More chance to create taunts.
Already mentioned but Soggoth seems like a nice fit.
Selfless Hero of course is pretty good to buff from hand.
Bloodhoof Brave especially in Taunt Buff Warrior deck.
TGT: Maybe Snowball Paladin synergizes well with Mysterious Challenger. Play a bunch of stuff, try to snowball then have slam dunk turn 6 into turn 7 into turn 8.
Argent Horserider already mentioned but Paladin uses that card anyway in aggressive/midrange type decks.
Silent Knight not a bad option either, people used it in Standard Secret Paladin.
Most of the Inspire minions still aren't great with hand buffs.
Bolf Ramshield is significantly better with buffs.
Magnataur Alpha scales with buffs too but that's not really going to be a thing.
LoE:
Brann is the big one here because almost all of these cards are Battlecry. I think you might actually play Brann in these kinds of deck.
Wobbling Runts maybe? Nah still too expensive.
Not that many to be honest. Maybe some in classic set can synergize better.
Just going through the list of cards in Karazhan, TGT, OG and LoE:
Karazhan: Runic Egg is the main one from this. It's pretty easy to make it a superior Loot Hoarder. I think in this deck you kinda want a health hand size to make sure your hand keeps gettting buffed.
Aside from that Karazhan doesn't really have any minion that is particularly good with hand buffs.
Old Gods: Forlorn Stalker can synergize with other hand buff cards to create a Buff Deathrattle deck for Hunters. Seems like that was the precursor for these Grimstreet cards.
C'thun itself and C'thun minions come to mind particular Crazed Worshiper. This isn't that strong of a synergy though but if you want more minion focused C'thun deck for the tri class then this might work.
Psychotron is a nice buff target.
Darkspeaker REALLY caught my eyes if it does interact that way. It's 3/6 base stats but if you buff it up a couple of times then you could buff a minion big time on the board. Seems like this card was made weak on purpose to prepare for the hand buff mechanic in the future.
Scaled Nightmare even if starts out as 3-4 attack is a big deal. Another potential Dragon option for Warrior and Paladin.
Corrupted Hogger is a good target for hand buffs. More chance to create taunts.
Already mentioned but Soggoth seems like a nice fit.
Selfless Hero of course is pretty good to buff from hand.
Bloodhoof Brave especially in Taunt Buff Warrior deck.
TGT: Maybe Snowball Paladin synergizes well with Mysterious Challenger. Play a bunch of stuff, try to snowball then have slam dunk turn 6 into turn 7 into turn 8.
Argent Horserider already mentioned but Paladin uses that card anyway in aggressive/midrange type decks.
Silent Knight not a bad option either, people used it in Standard Secret Paladin.
Most of the Inspire minions still aren't great with hand buffs.
Bolf Ramshield is significantly better with buffs.
Magnataur Alpha scales with buffs too but that's not really going to be a thing.
LoE:
Brann is the big one here because almost all of these cards are Battlecry. I think you might actually play Brann in these kinds of deck.
Wobbling Runts maybe? Nah still too expensive.
Not that many to be honest. Maybe some in classic set can synergize better.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I think Gnomish Inventor has a good stat distribution for buffing up. 2/4 to a 3/5 for some reason feels like one of the best stat distributions to boost with +1/+1. Like you're taking it from a fairly bad 3 drop all the way up to a ok 4 drop.
Azure Drake is even better, but you probably want both in your deck to keep your hand big for buffing.
I agree Brann is going to be pretty good in that deck. Think about a 3 mana 3/5 or 4/6 that's required removal with significant combo potential. Your 5 mana triple 7/7s could become quintuple 7/7s.
Azure Drake is even better, but you probably want both in your deck to keep your hand big for buffing.
I agree Brann is going to be pretty good in that deck. Think about a 3 mana 3/5 or 4/6 that's required removal with significant combo potential. Your 5 mana triple 7/7s could become quintuple 7/7s.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Saraad will be the card I want to try in buff decks. Making it a bit more resilient is a big deal.
From Karazhan there is also Arcane Anomaly, one of the biggest downsides of the card is the low-threat attack stat. It also has synergy with Small-Time Recruits. However, I don't think Grimy decks will be spell heavy, so it won't activate the effect as much.
Avian Watcher is almost good enough to be played, specially in Hunter. Being able to hit two different outcomes (have a secret and get the +1/+1 buff) seems extremely unreliable though. Either way, a (5) 5/9 Taunt is really strong.
Moroes might be able to survive a bit more with +1 Health, at least it won't die to Maelstrom, Ghoul and Swipe anymore.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I kinda wonder if Nat The Darkfisher is ok with handbuffs. It already has a jump start on being a little overstated, and you do really need some tempo swing types of plays to make up for weaker starts.
Edit: eh, nevermind. Might as well play flame juggler or friendly bartender for 1 less health but a positive effect instead of a negative one.
Edit: eh, nevermind. Might as well play flame juggler or friendly bartender for 1 less health but a positive effect instead of a negative one.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Okay so, for the last 2 days, 75% of my ladder experience has been against N'Zoth Burgle Rogue.
What the hell?
What the hell?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Probably better than playing against shaman where many of the matches are heavily influenced on their skill to roll spellpower totem...
From Reddit.
Much better minion. Might not be played but at least it is interesting.
0 synergy with the buff spell and the one that gives you 3 1 mana minions
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Reddit once again providing a terrible card for the game, just like their broken suggestions for 2 drops trying to turn priest into a curve monster.
edit:
It's like they just love curvestone that much, and then whine when one deck (secret paladin, shaman) dominates the curve game.
edit:
It's like they just love curvestone that much, and then whine when one deck (secret paladin, shaman) dominates the curve game.
This is horrendously, stupidly broken. Like, most overpowered card ever levels of broken. Reddit proving it's terrible at card design.
Yeah that Reddit card is god damn terrible.
Throw it into any Zoo type deck and just demolish everyone.
Like you would just play the current Discard Zoolock deck only you would cut out Soulfires and add that card in plus another buff card like Dark Iron Dwarf. 30 minion deck, there you go.
Throw it into any Zoo type deck and just demolish everyone.
Like you would just play the current Discard Zoolock deck only you would cut out Soulfires and add that card in plus another buff card like Dark Iron Dwarf. 30 minion deck, there you go.
Hey look. It's a 3/4 Twilight Whelp on Turn 1. That's really neat. Followed by a 3/5 Wyrmrest Agent and a 4/6 Blackwing Technician. Neat. What a fair card.
Or hey, a 2/4 Tunnel Trogg into a Totem Golem that's actually a Yeti. Fun and interactive.
Maybe we can do a clown fiesta deck. 2/2 charger on Turn 1. 3/2 charger on Turn 2. Great and wonderful
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It's not like gaffers never made some broken cards before
Don is boring, but he is pretty playable in midrange decks. He is 5 mana of stats and a 4+ mana spell in a single card. He has some notable downsides though, it has delayed tempo and the effects target is random (And has a chance of fizzling). Its also would be Awkward to have it hit something like Rag, or a card that already demanded hard removal.
I wonder if the Kabal is going to be all about Highlander style decks, Don clearly lines up with the Goon's general theme.
I wonder if the Kabal is going to be all about Highlander style decks, Don clearly lines up with the Goon's general theme.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I think the no spells requirement is very interesting, but the "start of game" trigger maybe makes it too overpowered, though I'd like to test it more to see for sure. No spells is a pretty large drawback.
I don't see a game being one without the use of any spells, curvestone on crack or not. Charge minions can only get so far in use as "removal".
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