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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro

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It's also better than trample and has beast tag. Not only is it better than trample, because attackers choose where they want to attack it is way better than trample even if it was exactly what trample is. I think it's really weird that hunter gets a minion that can essentially attack past taunts and people want to call it vanilla.
You made the comparison...

If it ends up good and hunter remains popular it might push taunts out of the meta, well there aren't even many taunts being played right now anyway. It's not being called vanilla but vanilla until it attacks a minion.
 

Dre

Member
Too bad Hunters don't have access to Windspeaker, I'd love to give Knuckles windfury and smack several Mid-range Shaman totems at once.
 
You made the comparison...

If it ends up good it will push taunts out of the meta, well there aren't even many taunts being played right now anyway. It's not being called vanilla but vanilla until it attacks a minion.

Yeah, and you made comments about trample's power in MTG so I pointed out that trample in this game is actually better than trample in MTG, let alone the text itself is better than trample.

"Vanilla until it attacks a minion" is just inaccurate on multiple levels. Just being a beast makes it technically not vanilla. Lets just set that aside. A 3/7 may not pressure an opponent to trade/remove in a face race. While a 3/7 with that text is much more likely to, just to deny that opportunity to trade with it and get the face damage at the same time. So even when you technically don't get value off the text, you can force your opponent to play awkwardly and sometimes even win the game off it. A 3/7 doesn't do that. Vanilla minions don't provide enough pressure to flip a game when you're playing from behind, at least not on their own. This one might, and I think does enough to be worth it.
 
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Pooya

Member
you wish it was mistcaller, lol.

seven mana FIVE SIX 567.

hope Aya Blackpaw is more like Kazakus and less like this...

It's like the most boring legendary in this set too, talk about uninspired.

Even if grimy goons are competitive, they're still so boring.
 

Dahbomb

Member
10/11 stats for 7 mana?

That's like near Dr Boom stats spread over two bodies/turns. Yeah it's boring but it's not that bad. If you hit it on a 2-3 drop you can play it together for some massive stats.
 

Pooya

Member
10/11 stats for 7 mana?

That's like near Dr Boom stats spread over two bodies/turns. Yeah it's boring but it's not that bad. If you hit it on a 2-3 drop you can play it together for some massive stats.

the other dude cost mana, it's not for 7 mana. is playing 5/5 and then a 6/6 divine shield on turn 8 strong enough if you're lucky enough for this to hit a 1 mana guy? It seems ok for a combo wombo, it's not really impressive. And that's like the best case scenario, more often your stats are played across two turns.
 

Dahbomb

Member
If it hits that 2/4 Deal damage equivalent to attack Hunter minion then that's really insane. Deal 7 damage to something and put a 7/9 in play for 4 mana.

is playing 5/5 and then a 6/6 divine shield on turn 8 strong enough if you're lucky enough for this to hit a 1 mana guy
It's 5/6 and yes that's a very stat efficient turn on turn 8.
 

wiibomb

Member
I'm not a fan of Don Han cho.... I think it would have been better if it affected more than 1 body.

In the end, as with most big cards, it gets hard removed. A normal 2/2 would get buffed to 7/7 to make it enough of a threat to hard remove it, while spread at 2 or more card it could make it so 2 or more minions get buffed to a not so big state but enough to make it a threat by swarming, like most of the theme of the expansion
 

Dahbomb

Member
The card itself isn't small either at 5/6. Making a small minion into a massive threat also is pretty damn good especially if that small minion gets benefit from being buffed.
 

Pooya

Member
"if it hits that" "if it hits this"

you have little to no control over it. I'd say the closest thing we have to it now is discard lock. yeah well if you hit all those discards and doomguard into double silverware, you win. That doesn't happen all that often. This is so much slower than that. You have to play everything in order and they cost mana.

It could create high roll RNG swings still (and that's awful for the game when that happens) but most of the time when it hits an average creature in your hand, that's how you should evaluate it, with 1/2 mana guy? I'd say it's alright, I don't really see the deck building appeal. You're not doing something all that powerful, it feels too fair still to be competitive.

Hunter isn't going to play this, I don't see it in a warrior deck either. You should look into paladin for any potential.
 

wiibomb

Member
Well also, to be honest if the opponent uses a hard removal on a buffed 7/7, then may be it isn't that bad, there aren't so much hard removals in a deck and using it on this instead of a ragnaros might be good.

Also don han'cho can be buffed, even a +1/+1 makes this unbearable.
 
If it hits that 2/4 Deal damage equivalent to attack Hunter minion then that's really insane. Deal 7 damage to something and put a 7/9 in play for 4 mana.
Can you really afford to run a low impact 7 mana card in hunter on the off chance that you get nice synergy though?
I wonder if it has any combo potential, you could maybe play this with a brann to make a huge charge minion. Something like Brann + Don to give +10/+10 to Grom and then inner rage next turn for 22 burst? Pretty optimistic, might be fun to watch a streamer try it.
 

Szadek

Member
The goons are the most boring shit ever confirmed.
Telling the other player before hand that they going to need some hard removal is not a good idea.
Honestly, people will probably just play more hard removal or silence to deal with the goons if they ever become a thing.
 

wiibomb

Member
You guys are whining too much...

The goons are not the most entertaining mechanic in HS, but they are fair, they don't use weird extremes of RNG to make things... remember yogg???

Kazakus while it is interesting, it takes a good dose of RNG in its play, and if you guys don't complain about the "boring" of the goons, you will be complaining about the RNG of the kavals...
 
I think the "hard removal exists" argument can only go so far. Decks only run so much of it and if you're turning a small threat into one that forces out hard removal so that they can't answer your big late game legendary the next turn then that's going to be a massive advantage for you.

Don Han'Cho is a pretty good card, it's just a boring one. I expect it to see some play.
 

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
I'm not sold on the Don. It's a strong effect, but I can't really see Warrior or Hunter wanting that kind of body. It doesn't provide powerful finishing plays like Rag does and it doesn't do much to swing the game if you're behind.

Paladin could use it but again... they are so frequently behind on the board. It's designed for some kind aggro finisher that I can't see being worth it in lots of cases. I dunno. Maybe I'm Missing something.
 
It seems okay. I think we'll have to see how well the rest of the deck works out. 5/6 is low for a 7 drop but it'll most likely be like an 7/8 or bigger by the time you play it. It still may be too slow but I'm not ready to count it out quite yet.
 

Pooya

Member
you're not really turning your small guy into a threat. you're playing a big guy that is divided across 2 bodies. The hard removal they're using is in effect removing your 7 drop, just because it's aimed at a 2 drop doesn't mean otherwise, it's still strong, I'm not saying it's not. For this card to be good, you need to play low cost minions, you're unlikely to have many big guys anyway. If it hits a big threat, it's bad for you, since your opponent uses one removal for 2 of your threats pretty much. You buffed your Tirion? ok I hex both at the same time.

If your hand is empty, the card doesn't do anything btw, that's enough of a reason to not play it in hunter by itself.

The only thing midrange shaman for example needs to do to counter these goons decks is to put a earthshock in the deck lol. That is if they become a thing. All those spellpower synergies make earthshock so good too, you're just waiting for a reason to put it back.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Don Han'Cho. You either want it to hit something cheap or hit something that synergizes with it and doesn't get punished super hard. So you wouldn't want the effect to hit something like Highmane, Sylvanas, Tirion, etc. Hard removal will punish those. Having it hit dopplegangster is the dream. 5 mana three 7/7's.
 

Farewell

Member
I think something like: "Give +5/+5 randomly split among all minions in your hand" is a bit more interesting. Like a little cthun counterpart.
Or is it a bit OP?


Anyways i will give this card a try.
 

Xanathus

Member
Oh something I was thinking for awhile is that one point of conflict during card discussions is that people may have different standards about what's a "good" and "bad" card. Perhaps a way to handle it is to define card tiers something like this:

Tier A - Cards that will see top-tier competitive play (after meta has settled of course)
Tier B - Cards that are better than basic cards but aren't going to be placed into a competitive deck because you only have 30 card slots and there are better cards available
Tier C - Cards that are worse than basic cards, why would you ever even put it into your deck (cough Purify cough)
Tier D - Good in arena

I think a lot of people here are using the term "good" for cards that belong to Tier B, whereas other people use "good" only for Tier A cards
 

zoukka

Member
Don cho is pretty meh. Needs another card to be acceptable and a card that really benefits from those added stats to be worthwile.

Terrible top deck.
 

Szadek

Member
You guys are whining too much...

The goons are not the most entertaining mechanic in HS, but they are fair, they don't use weird extremes of RNG to make things... remember yogg???

Kazakus while it is interesting, it takes a good dose of RNG in its play, and if you guys don't complain about the "boring" of the goons, you will be complaining about the RNG of the kavals...
The reception to Kazakus was very postive. His effect is very similar to dicover, which is probably the best mechanic in the entire game.
The other player can also make a pretty good guess as to which effects you would pick that work best for the current situation.

The best hope for Han'cho is something of combo deck where you buff a charge minion like gromm or alakir, but even that doesn't sound that great

Anyway, I made a few theory crafts to find out what the dream cruve of a goon deck would look like and it's looking pretty bad.
Well, maybe the hunter deck could work since Kodo and rat pack are very good cards.

The best start for the paladin would probably be something like this:
Smuggler run(very bad) -> 2/2 outfitter (still bad).
Turn 3 would be time come back into the game. Lets say with 3 1 mana card, but 1 of them got only buffed once.
You board would look something like this 3/4 marshal, 3/3 argen squire 2/2 leaper gnome and your hand would be pretty empty
That still not much better what shamans can do on turn 3 with more cards left in hand.
A Dragon priest board at this point would look like this:
2/1 (after trading) ,2/4, 3/5. This about as good,but much easier to archive.

As for warrior, it might look like this:
War axe-> Ghoule or Smuggler(bad)-> 5/4 or 4/3 grimmy(meh to bad) -> 5/12 or 4/11 armor smith or 5/5 or 4/4 doublegangster.
Now, turn 5 sounds great, but since you didn't make a good play turn since turn 3 at best, the other play a) will have much better tempo b) had enough time to draw removal and c) and had no reason to use his removal until now.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Oh something I was thinking for awhile is that one point of conflict during card discussions is that people may have different standards about what's a "good" and "bad" card. Perhaps a way to handle it is to define card tiers something like this:

Tier A - Cards that will see top-tier competitive play (after meta has settled of course)
Tier B - Cards that are better than basic cards but aren't going to be placed into a competitive deck because you only have 30 card slots and there are better cards available
Tier C - Cards that are worse than basic cards, why would you ever even put it into your deck (cough Purify cough)
Tier D - Good in arena

I think a lot of people here are using the term "good" for cards that belong to Tier B, whereas other people use "good" only for Tier A cards
I switch C and D tier.

And I have a tier in between A and B tier because in that list there's a massive gap between A and B.

Like say Thing from Below is tier A (top tier as hell card) and Young Priestess is tier B (better than basic card, playable in a competitive deck)... there's a massive gulf between those two cards.

So I have S, A, B, C, D.

S: Top tier cards, you put this card in your decks because it's too good not to. Tirion, Fandral, Thing from Below etc. These are usually the cards that the community or Blizzard looks to be on the nerf list because they are such brain dead auto include.

A: Strong cards, good enough to be used in competitive decks but usually meta dependent. Baron Geddon, Ysera etc.

B: Good cards but usually not broken enough to be included in most competitive decks. Stuff like Seal of Champions, Mulch, Flame Juggler.

C: Good enough for Arena tier. Very pickable cards in Arena because they are usually decently stated above basic cards. Stuff like Aberrant Berserker, Evil Heckler, Kvaldir Raider etc. But they are a bit too basic for constructed play.

D: Genuinely bad/terrible card that I would not even pick in Arena. Stuff like the 6 mana 5/5 that draws if it attacks and kills a minion. Also Purify.



So far in this expansion only the Priest cards are S tier for me. Like the 5 mana 5/6, 3 mana 3/4, Dragon Potion and 1 mana steal 2 mana minion.
 
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