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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro

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Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Yeah, Leeroy was problematic back in the day when he was 1 less mana because people used to do all sorts of multi-card burst damage combos. At his current cost the only relevant combo is Leeroy + PO + Faceless, which is basically getting rotated out completely.
 
W

wiibomb

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Not particularly but in your comparison we're also talking a 3 mana difference. It remains that Leroy will remain not just a finisher for an aggressive deck in Rogue.
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whch isn't that bad.. the point of leeroy is exactly that one, a finisher...

I agree that without PO, leeroy is far less a bigger offender. at most it will be with cold blood, but again that seems more in line with a miracle rogue that is just... fine
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Vanillalite said:
You can already look at Shaman though and see in mid range Shaman they aren't losing any cards even with the HoF ones.
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It's already gonna take a hit from STB and Spirit Claws when the nerf hits and then lose Azure Drake. If it's still super good after that, what else are you gonna rotate? Thalnos? Mana Tide? The deck isn't heavy on Classic cards and so if they're gonna address it it won't be through HoF rotation.
 
G

Glass Shark

Banned
squidyj said:
So this is one of the things I worry about with the rank floors. Just absolutely lawless wastelands with minimal meta to speak of. An environment where it's very difficult to apply any sort of insight into deckbuilding to attack another deck or anything like that. Just pure mindless chaos, control decks making the most defensive play every turn, aggro decks making the most aggressive play every turn, everybody playing around everything and nothing at the same time.
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Honestly that kinda sounds fun to me. Even when losing last night, I was excited to play against a deck archetype that I had literally never seen before. It was something new and interesting to think about. I don't know if it will actually come to pass, but I love the idea that it could open up more possibilities for deck types instead of just people playing Tier 1 netdecks all the way down.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
jrh2 said:
Honestly that kinda sounds fun to me. Even when losing last night, I was excited to play against a deck archetype that I had literally never seen before. It was something new and interesting to think about. I don't know if it will actually come to pass, but I love the idea that it could open up more possibilities for deck types instead of just people playing Tier 1 netdecks all the way down.
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Yeah, this is all upside to me. I care way more about variety than about my ability to neurotically tweak to the metagame all the way up the ladder.
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
squidyj said:
So this is one of the things I worry about with the rank floors. Just absolutely lawless wastelands with minimal meta to speak of. An environment where it's very difficult to apply any sort of insight into deckbuilding to attack another deck or anything like that. Just pure mindless chaos, control decks making the most defensive play every turn, aggro decks making the most aggressive play every turn, everybody playing around everything and nothing at the same time.
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This is the kind of thinking that leads people to believe they can win more at poker when other people play better because playing against someone who plays wrecklessly leads to bigger swings. It's nonsense.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Biggest mistake Blizzard is making is not rotating out Auctioneer. I guarantee in a year's time we'll be having the exact same issues with the card. Rotating out Conceal means jack shit when a Rogue or Druid can still draw 5+ cards in a single turn with no sort of counterplay.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Blizzard doesn't want to remove combo decks entirely. Doing so would be a very bad thing and they know it. They've talked about it. Combo decks make both players approach the game different than just dropping on curve power or having every answer and winning in the late game.

I've always felt like conceal perhaps needed to go because it added a large degree of non-interactivity to the archetype. Although you could still overcome conceal, it's probably best that it rotates anyway.
 
J

JesseZao

Member
Ranked floors will be glorious. I'd rather have the small wins more often than feeling like taking a break from one ladder because a deck I like isn't as good anymore.

Now I can sit at 5/10 and play fun decks without possibly tanking my rank. If I want to push, I can, but I don't lose my progress because of experimentation. Rank 5/10 is going to be fun for those who don't try to hit legend each month.
 
H

Hycran

Banned
BananasWithGuns said:
Biggest mistake Blizzard is making is not rotating out Auctioneer. I guarantee in a year's time we'll be having the exact same issues with the card. Rotating out Conceal means jack shit when a Rogue or Druid can still draw 5+ cards in a single turn with no sort of counterplay.
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If there are actually some decent card draw mechanics it won't be so bad. Right now you always have to wonder whether it's a good idea to include loot hoarder. Would have been happy to see him rotate.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Cool, lost a game to a disconnect. How many years deep are we into this game and the reconnect feature is still completely worthless and has seen no improvement?

Edit: And now a game lost to a Rogue that plays 15/15 worth of stats with stealth on turn 5. Remember when Rogue was going to be Priest tier?
 
P

peakish

Member
Any thoughts on my RenoMonkeyPriest deck, anyone? I feel like I'm reaching a plateau at rank 12 since I'm running into so many Dragon Priests at that stage, and this deck is absolutely wrecked by any type of high health minion heavy deck. It's pretty good against most other decks though, including Aggro Shaman and Pirate Warrior. I been toying with replacing the Jeweled Scarab since I thought that was a weak point (especially with resurrect from Kazakus) but it really helps with the early game, my stats took a nose dive without it against all classes.

Maybe some other early game card could be good but I'm not sure which. I'm thinking about some 4 attack card to mess with Priests in particular. I guess I'm not too sure about the Shade, it doesn't feel like it makes an impact most of the time since it dies so easily. The card draw is good tho ...

renomonkey96ov0.png
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
BananasWithGuns said:
Cool, lost a game to a disconnect. How many years deep are we into this game and the reconnect feature is still completely worthless and has seen no improvement?
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how many games do you win because of that same BS though? For every game i lose bc of dc i must win five. shit last night i queued up against an opponent labeled 'Hearthstone' in standard ranked, didn't do a thing until turn 5 and i just lethaled whatever i was playing against the next turn
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
BananasWithGuns said:
Turn 1 STB + STB + Patches. Turn 2 Spirit Claws + Tunnel Trogg. Turn 3 Feral Spirits.

Yeah, dropping STB to 1 health is totally going to matter lol.
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But he wouldn't be able to play Spirit Claws with Trogg.

And STB can die to Portal, Arcane Explosion, Arcane Missiles, WW effects, Mortal Coil, hero powers etc.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Dahbomb said:
And STB can die to Portal, Arcane Explosion, Arcane Missiles, WW effects, Mortal Coil, hero powers etc.
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Alley Cat, Voidwalker, Possessed Villager, Argent Squire, Living Roots, unbuffed Mana Wyrm.

Plenty of things will be able to kill 1hp STB.
 
S

squidyj

Member
Yaboosh said:
This is the kind of thinking that leads people to believe they can win more at poker when other people play better because playing against someone who plays wrecklessly leads to bigger swings. It's nonsense.
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it's like you're trying to say meta is irrelevant.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Feral Spirit really should be rotating out. That card is so damn problematic when it comes to aggro.

Low cost taunts just highlight how awful the core mechanics of Hearthstone are in terms of giving such a massive advantage to the aggressor. Taunts are better used to protect your overpowered minions than they are to actually protect you and that's a problem. Taunts are not good enough. Healing is not good enough. Aggression is always better than being defensive and it's shitty.
 
F

fertygo

Member
BananasWithGuns said:
Feral Spirit really should be rotating out. That card is so damn problematic when it comes to aggro.

Low cost taunts just highlight how awful the core mechanics of Hearthstone are in terms of giving such a massive advantage to the aggressor. Taunts are better used to protect your overpowered minions than they are to actually protect you and that's a problem. Taunts are not good enough. Healing is not good enough. Aggression is always better than being defensive and it's shitty.
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Feral is kinda shit card without Trogg.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
is alexstraza gonna be one of the wilded neutrals >_>

I know she's not but....I gotta dream. I just got a regular alexstraza along with the gold one I already had..
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Blizzard doesn't want to remove combo decks entirely. Doing so would be a very bad thing and they know it. They've talked about it. Combo decks make both players approach the game different than just dropping on curve power or having every answer and winning in the late game.

I've always felt like conceal perhaps needed to go because it added a large degree of non-interactivity to the archetype. Although you could still overcome conceal, it's probably best that it rotates anyway.
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I meant combo, not control. oops
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I mean it's one thing to say a card is like good/very good at around 3-4 range but to go straight into 5 (aka over powered, meta defining and/or auto include) for a card like that is hella suspect.


Of course all of the Paladin/Hunter cards would need to be re-evaluated once we have a meta that isn't so aggro heavy. Technically if you review cards based on meta then pretty much all of the Goon faction cards are 1's and 2's which makes no sense because meta changes but card text/numbers rarely change.


Blizzard doesn't want to remove combo decks entirely. Doing so would be a very bad thing and they know it. They've talked about it. Combo decks make both players approach the game different than just dropping on curve power or having every answer and winning in the late game.
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What Blizzard sees as combo decks isn't what the community sees as combo decks.

Blizzard thinks those Midrange/Tempo Grim Patron decks are combo decks. Yeah that Arcane Giant Patron deck with lots of spell is probably a combo deck but if you are playing a bunch of minions and then just buffing up your Patrons with incidental WW effects, that's not really a combo deck.

In the end it just boils down to lack of interactivity. If something lacks interactivity and is too good then it tends to get nerfed.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Dahbomb said:
Of course all of the Paladin/Hunter cards would need to be re-evaluated once we have a meta that isn't so aggro heavy. Technically if you review cards based on meta then pretty much all of the Goon faction cards are 1's and 2's which makes no sense because meta changes but card text/numbers rarely change.
Click to expand...

I mean, on some level you can never really predict what the meta will do just by doing card evaluations. That's why when we do our ratings and evaluations on these cards we try to look at the cards in a vacuum as much as possible. This meta pushed out a crap ton of cards and I think if you work with a rating scale that you just score cards based on current meta, it makes the ratings too volatile. Is Ysera a 1-star or 2-star card? For the current meta, it might be, but we know that the card has seen enough play in the past that it would feel really dumb to rate it as such. That's the spirit of ratings we try to carry when we say a card like Grimestreet Outfitter or Alley Cat can be a 4. These cards aren't meta-defining but the decks they exist in aren't jokes and they are powerful in those decks. So saying cards like these are bad or unplayable doesn't feel right.
 
P

Pooya

Member
This was the last time that I play wild ladder for climbing, it's completely screwed.

It's either the absurd pirate warrior deck or the hilariously greedy reno decks that never ever beat the pirates, they're just trolling. You can build something that is reasonable against pirates but instant loses to those reno dumb asses, or the other way around.

It's like a far more extreme version of standard I guess, the problem is I can't see how this is going to change with new cards. stb nerf isn't going to change anything with pirate warrior in wild.

Wild is great for doing quests at rank 20 and farm golden portraits while there, stay away.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Dahbomb said:
I mean it's one thing to say a card is like good/very good at around 3-4 range but to go straight into 5 (aka over powered, meta defining and/or auto include) for a card like that is hella suspect.


Of course all of the Paladin/Hunter cards would need to be re-evaluated once we have a meta that isn't so aggro heavy. Technically if you review cards based on meta then pretty much all of the Goon faction cards are 1's and 2's which makes no sense because meta changes but card text/numbers rarely change.
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Yeah. I guess I was envisioning a meta where hunter continues to find a way like they often do, and people raging at 2 mana 5/4s with benefits, or at worst a 3 or 4 mana super overstated card.

Meta definitely didn't work out that way, and maybe card draw was less consistant than I expected too. I'd say it's worth probably a 3.5 right now.

Dahbomb said:
OMFG somehow this piece of information was missed among all the random question that Blizzard had been answering:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hea...88-molten-giant-may-get-unnerfed-for-standard

Blizzard considering unnerfing Molten Giant probably for next rotation (2018) and moving it to Wild!

Oh man that would be amazing. They should unnerf more cards and move them to Wild.
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My god. I knew Team 5 was slow, but fucking 2018? Really? It's not like it's a controversial change here.

It's insane how long they take to do anything in hearthstone, but this really takes the cake here.

EDIT: Seriously, this is maybe the most annoyed I've been at team 5 ever. I wish they said nothing at all. Saying "maybe 2018" is downright insulting. I'm sure they have plenty of stuff on thier to do list, but this makes absolutely no sense at all. It's not like combo druid or handlock would even be that strong in wild.

Why such an increadibly long wait? Isn't it enough that we have to wait freaking 12 weeks before we get a nerf on two cards that were obviously problimatic within 2 weeks of release, if not freaking prerelease.

Hell, by 2018, handlock and combo druid might even be completely overshadowed after the next 3 expansions to the point you cant even play them in low ranks, assuming that's not already the case now.
 
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