veryslowhand
Banned
I´m looking forward for the new possibilities in wild decks, actually may switch to wild being my main ladder if the standard one keeps being what it is now.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
I´m looking forward for the new possibilities in wild decks, actually may switch to wild being my main ladder if the standard one keeps being what it is now.
That's what I did, and I'm definitely already seeing way more variation in decks.
Such a shame that they fucked up Arena.
Wild is better, because it flies under the radar for the most part.
More exposure could really hurt the game mode.
I dunno, it's already very little variety at the top end. What really hurts the game mode is playing the same three or four people during any given session at higher ranks. More people would be a good thing for wild I think.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Wild is better, because it flies under the radar for the most part.
More exposure could really hurt the game mode.
Wild is not better, but it could be worse if decks were even better tuned.
Wild is not better, but it could be worse if decks were even better tuned.
Wild is different, which is enough to be better for lots of people. It's good for a change of pace.
And it will be even more different after this rotation.
now that I think I could have more cards for wild, I'll be trying more that mode.
I think that also applies to many others who never entered wild before, now that the cards they have rotated can only be played on that mode there will be many more trying it out.
I just wish they could sell naxx, I really like the idea of having all those cards
I think that also applies to many others who never entered wild before, now that the cards they have rotated can only be played on that mode there will be many more trying it out.
I just wish they could sell naxx, I really like the idea of having all those cards
Wild is different, which is enough to be better for lots of people. It's good for a change of pace.
And it will be even more different after this rotation.
Yep. Wild is good because it offers an alternate game mode that you don't have to buy into. Is it always better? No. But it's something else that you can play when you get bored or frustrated with standard. It's absolutely something the game needs more of if possible.
last time I played wild, the more I ranked up, the closer to standard it got actually. Tells you about the power level of the new cards...
I'm also not looking forward to playing against absurd renolock in wild or reno in general. I'm pretty sure I'm never going to play wild seriously other than doing easy quests at rank 20.
I'm also not looking forward to playing against absurd renolock in wild or reno in general. I'm pretty sure I'm never going to play wild seriously other than doing easy quests at rank 20.
No, I like some of the potential decks that people come up with that take you by surprise. I also like playing refined versions of actually good control decks that I can ladder with.seems like the only thing anybody likes about wild is that nobody gives a shit about wild.
The part about "nobody gives a shit about Wild" is good because you have to actually use your own brain when it comes to deck development and countering the meta/teching. No one is there in Wild telling you what is good and you can't watch streamers playing Wild to get pointers... it's all self taught which I like. Of course I do like the community aspect of sharing decks and strategies but there is something satisfying at a personal level when you discover and counter a meta by yourself without external influences.
I think the Heroic Wild Brawl will go over better than the two Standard Heroic Brawls they have had. Mostly because the Brawl meta game will actually develop over time rather than people just coming in with their ladder decks ready to go. Obviously there will be a couple of decks on top like always but it will take some figuring out before that happens.
BannedEpisode
Member
I don't have any cards from Naxx, GvG, BRM, and hardly any from tgt.
Kinda makes getting into Wild a pain. I'd rather just pass entirely. Besides, I like a confined set to learn. Standard makes sense for me.
Kinda makes getting into Wild a pain. I'd rather just pass entirely. Besides, I like a confined set to learn. Standard makes sense for me.
Standard is definitely what has to happen if you want a reasonably balanced game.
Otherwise Blizzard would be forced to print stupidly powerful cards to make people buy the packs and that would just turn the game into something undesirable. It's also a lot better for the new players getting into the game, far less cards to manage at a time and there are more dramatic changes per rotation.
The three main issues with Standard as Blizzard has implemented is:
1) It is not reasonably balanced or at the very least, not exponentially more balanced than Wild which was the ideal.
2) It has not curbed power creep at all, in fact the post Standard cards have effectively power crept over previously "OP" Wild cards.
3) Standard just further exposes class imbalances and the disparity in how the Basic/Classic set is distributed among the classes.
Otherwise Blizzard would be forced to print stupidly powerful cards to make people buy the packs and that would just turn the game into something undesirable. It's also a lot better for the new players getting into the game, far less cards to manage at a time and there are more dramatic changes per rotation.
The three main issues with Standard as Blizzard has implemented is:
1) It is not reasonably balanced or at the very least, not exponentially more balanced than Wild which was the ideal.
2) It has not curbed power creep at all, in fact the post Standard cards have effectively power crept over previously "OP" Wild cards.
3) Standard just further exposes class imbalances and the disparity in how the Basic/Classic set is distributed among the classes.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You got power creep all wrong. But people always claim if a card is stronger than another card it is power creep. In terms of power creep over wild. We don't have a stronger 4 drop than shredder. We don't have a stronger 7 drop than dr. boom. We won't have a stronger 2 drop than totem golem or a stronger 1 drop than tunnel trogg. But lets even ignore all this. It's not the point I want to make.
Rotating cards out of standard makes new cards less powerful than they would be otherwise. Amara is weaker because sylvanas doesn't exist, even though these 2 cards don't directly impact each other, they impact the deck you would play them in. That is a reduction in power creep because n'zoth decks aren't going to be able to run 2x belcher, 2x new priest 4 drop, 1x sylvanas, 1x chillmaw in terms of deathrattle taunts available.
So both individually cards have not power crept and rotations curb specific decks. The set has a high average card, but that doesn't mean it's power creep.
Rotating cards out of standard makes new cards less powerful than they would be otherwise. Amara is weaker because sylvanas doesn't exist, even though these 2 cards don't directly impact each other, they impact the deck you would play them in. That is a reduction in power creep because n'zoth decks aren't going to be able to run 2x belcher, 2x new priest 4 drop, 1x sylvanas, 1x chillmaw in terms of deathrattle taunts available.
So both individually cards have not power crept and rotations curb specific decks. The set has a high average card, but that doesn't mean it's power creep.
3) Standard just further exposes class imbalances and the disparity in how the Basic/Classic set is distributed among the classes.
For me, this is the most fundamental problem with Standard. They haven't bothered to rebalance the basic and classic sets and so any class that has fundamental problems in those sets needs overcorrection in the new sets to become viable. They did that with Shaman. They sort of did that with Priest with Drakonid Operative. It's only a matter of time before they do it to Paladin.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Keeping so many strong cards in permanent rotation is probably why rotation doesn't do enough to stem power creep.
For instance Jade Druid only has 4 cards that aren't in the Classic or MSoG set (Fandral, Feral Rage, Living Roots, Mulch). Pirate Warrior has 3 (N'Zoth First Mate, Bloodsail Cultist, Finley). When most decks are majority classic cards, rotation is rarely going to do enough to change them.
They curb this problem a little by specifically pushing some OP synergies that they know are rotating out like with DrakOP and Kazakus, but that style of power creep extremely limits your card design and only works in the last expansion before rotation. The only real fix is being more aggressive with nerfs or rotation.
I think their conservativeness on nerfs and rotations is causing some troubling long term problems, because the power creep is reaching points that hearthstone game mechanics aren't built to handle, and leading us down the path of rock paper scissors and draw RNG being the only thing that matters instead of any decision making.
For instance Jade Druid only has 4 cards that aren't in the Classic or MSoG set (Fandral, Feral Rage, Living Roots, Mulch). Pirate Warrior has 3 (N'Zoth First Mate, Bloodsail Cultist, Finley). When most decks are majority classic cards, rotation is rarely going to do enough to change them.
They curb this problem a little by specifically pushing some OP synergies that they know are rotating out like with DrakOP and Kazakus, but that style of power creep extremely limits your card design and only works in the last expansion before rotation. The only real fix is being more aggressive with nerfs or rotation.
I think their conservativeness on nerfs and rotations is causing some troubling long term problems, because the power creep is reaching points that hearthstone game mechanics aren't built to handle, and leading us down the path of rock paper scissors and draw RNG being the only thing that matters instead of any decision making.
I wonder what will happen to mage.
Tempo is probably dead, reno is gone and freeze is not in a good spot either.
The 2 new decks to look out for are Time Warp mage and Elemental mage.
Shaman looks way more promissing when it comes to elementals and Time is very hard to judge, since the quest requirement is so weird.
Mage could sercetly be one of the worst classes of the expansion.
Tempo is probably dead, reno is gone and freeze is not in a good spot either.
The 2 new decks to look out for are Time Warp mage and Elemental mage.
Shaman looks way more promissing when it comes to elementals and Time is very hard to judge, since the quest requirement is so weird.
Mage could sercetly be one of the worst classes of the expansion.
I don't have any cards from Naxx, GvG, BRM, and hardly any from tgt.
Kinda makes getting into Wild a pain. I'd rather just pass entirely. Besides, I like a confined set to learn. Standard makes sense for me.
The majority of good cards from Naxx and GvG are the commons, with a few rares like Sludge Belcher being good too. So it usually isn't too bad to just craft what you need.
For BRM, I would recommend getting at least Wing 1 before it gets rotated out. Emperor Thaurissan is likely to be useful in wild for a long time to come, and the 700 Gold/$7 is a lot cheaper than 1600 dust later. Quick Shot is also a Hunter Staple, and stuff like Gang Up, Resurrect, and Grim Patron are pretty popular in decks too. Plus, if you have at least Wing 1, you are still able to unlock the other Wings later.
Do we know when exactly Ungoro will unlock yet?
Thursday
WooHooAlex
Member
Just hit 8000 gold, and I'm only 16 wins away from getting my gold hunter.
Ready for Un'Goro!
Ready for Un'Goro!
Lagspike_exe
Member
80G EU quest. PM me.
There has definitely been power creep in Wild (not talking about Standard, obviously every rotation there's a huge power nerf).You got power creep all wrong. But people always claim if a card is stronger than another card it is power creep. In terms of power creep over wild. We don't have a stronger 4 drop than shredder. We don't have a stronger 7 drop than dr. boom. We won't have a stronger 2 drop than totem golem or a stronger 1 drop than tunnel trogg. But lets even ignore all this. It's not the point I want to make.
Patches + 1 drop Pirate is power creep over every other 1 drop play in the game. It dominates Wild.
Second Rate Bruiser, Dirty Rat and Mixtress of Mixtures are either power creep or on the level of previous similar cards. Mistress of Mixtures has all but replaced Zombie Chow in Control Warlock decks in Wild. Dirty Rat is usually better than Deathlord and Second Rate Bruiser comes out faster than Belcher although you usually have to play both of them to curb the offensive plays.
Maelstrom Portal is super power creep, it's so much power creep that it makes Muster for Battle, Haunted Creeper and other annoying stuff in the game look balanced.
Shredder is probably the most powerful neutral 4 drop but classes have better access to stronger class cards. Shaman has 477 and Thing from Below, they don't need to run Shredder. Dragon Priest has over statted Dragons, Kabal Talonpriest and DrakOP. These classes don't need to run Shredder because they just have better cards that fit their decks better. Hunter has Spider Wolf which fits their game plan better of buffing Beasts. That is why the impact of Shredder has greatly been diminished in Wild.
This is not even touching upon the Jade cards or the Kabal cards. Kazakus is insane, Aya Blackpaw destroys most other 6 drops if you play Jades and then you have Warlock's Abyssal Enforcer which for them is superior to Dr Balanced (although you play both). So control decks have more powerful options now which makes Dr Balanced actually cutable from the deck if you need to. Or the insanely powerful Zoo cards like Darkshire and Forbidden Ritual. Or the Finja Water Package that has been introduced in various midrange decks.
People who actually play Wild know this... the format is far different from what it used to be. A lot of people still think Wild is just Secret Paladin with Face Hunter, Mech decks and Fatigue Priest but that's not really true... Secret Paladin has long been power crept over and Pirate Warriors/Shaman dominate the aggro. Top end of Wild is like a more refined version of Standard which is where this whole commentary of power creep started with... the old Wild decks have been power crept by the more latest expansion which is why at the top end Wild looks a lot like Standard (Pirate Warrior, Aggro Shaman, Renolock, Dragon Priest). If there actually wasn't power creep in the more recent sets then Wild would look very similar to what it did a year ago but that is not the case because there has in fact been power creep.
Also LMAO @ these Trump review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgQM2W-Q8lw
*This card is a 1 because Priest won't see play.
The stuff upto Kaz was likely designed with a full card pool in mind, since the decision to make Standard was actually somewhat last minute from interviews. And then they have to print cards to compete with the previous OP cards.
So yeah, its gonna be a spiral of OP, even with Standard. The only thing Standard helps with, is they can actually print more powerful cards in like 2019 without having to worry about them being busted when paired with some card they designed for Naxx.
So yeah, its gonna be a spiral of OP, even with Standard. The only thing Standard helps with, is they can actually print more powerful cards in like 2019 without having to worry about them being busted when paired with some card they designed for Naxx.
this is something I actually don't understand, if I discard a +4/+4 clutchmother, will I summon a 2/2 clutchmother or a 6/6 clutchmother?
6/6
LucidMomentum
Member
https://www.twitch.tv/disguisedtoasths
Disguised Toast making up for oversleeping by playing 4 games at the same time.
Disguised Toast making up for oversleeping by playing 4 games at the same time.
So just reinstalled and pre ordered ungoro.
Got a cool welcome back quest for 3 free packs. And a store bundle for 10packs +1 leg for $5. I got Tirion which I didn't have so.... not a bad time to come back I guess.....
Should I get karazhan?
There are like maybe 7-8 cards there you might want next meta depending on what you want to play, most of it seems irrelevant. Just wait for now see what you like.
https://www.twitch.tv/disguisedtoasths
Disguised Toast making up for oversleeping by playing 4 games at the same time.
just started seeing that after kibler started hosting the stream
it is insane how fast he goes on all games...
I made a Midrange Hunter deck using Dinomancy.
Nothing spectacular here, everything is as expected. I threw in the 5 mana 8/8 to round out the curve, might as well experiment with it. I can maybe get an Adapt, Houndmaster or Dinomancy (or any combination of two) on it for some extreme face damage.
I threw in a Hunter's Mark because I expect some big minions to be played. Might even double up on it instead of Eaglehorn but man... the deck feels pretty weak on the draws. I almost want to throw in Stampede into it but the deck just wants to finish the game through god curve and Dinomancy hero power on beasts.
Only the 5 mana 8/8 is a neutral card, the rest are all Hunter cards. Last time this time happened it was with Shaman...
Nothing spectacular here, everything is as expected. I threw in the 5 mana 8/8 to round out the curve, might as well experiment with it. I can maybe get an Adapt, Houndmaster or Dinomancy (or any combination of two) on it for some extreme face damage.
I threw in a Hunter's Mark because I expect some big minions to be played. Might even double up on it instead of Eaglehorn but man... the deck feels pretty weak on the draws. I almost want to throw in Stampede into it but the deck just wants to finish the game through god curve and Dinomancy hero power on beasts.
Only the 5 mana 8/8 is a neutral card, the rest are all Hunter cards. Last time this time happened it was with Shaman...
RebornYeti
Member
Didn't see this posted, but I have a good friend who is into this game and he just posted a new Hearthstone video where he reads 135 haiku poems (that he wrote) for all 135 cards in Un'Goro. Here is the link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=HiF9XgW5ous
He also has a thread on Reddit, if you're interested.
He also has a thread on Reddit, if you're interested.
Jade + Elemental Shaman Midrange deck
I combined the packages because you really don't need a lot of Jades anyway and Jade Claws/Jade Lightning you kinda need as board removals so might as well toss in the other Jade cards.
Threw in a tech Volcano in case things go wrong but I don't think you need it. You have a lot of tempo removal in the deck through minions (Phoenix, Blazecaller, Fire Elemental, Kalimos, Jade Lightning, Jade Claws). Actually aside from Jade Claws, you REALLY do not want Overloads in this deck.
Servant of Kalimos becomes the Azure Drake replacement of the deck. I kinda want to fit in one extra Mana Tide in this deck though as well as 1-2 1 mana Elementals.
It's possible that the better deck skews more towards Jades and you replace one of the 4 mana Elemental synergy cards with Jade Spirits.
I combined the packages because you really don't need a lot of Jades anyway and Jade Claws/Jade Lightning you kinda need as board removals so might as well toss in the other Jade cards.
Threw in a tech Volcano in case things go wrong but I don't think you need it. You have a lot of tempo removal in the deck through minions (Phoenix, Blazecaller, Fire Elemental, Kalimos, Jade Lightning, Jade Claws). Actually aside from Jade Claws, you REALLY do not want Overloads in this deck.
Servant of Kalimos becomes the Azure Drake replacement of the deck. I kinda want to fit in one extra Mana Tide in this deck though as well as 1-2 1 mana Elementals.
It's possible that the better deck skews more towards Jades and you replace one of the 4 mana Elemental synergy cards with Jade Spirits.
Generic Zoo deck for Ungoro
I think it's better to not bother putting too many Discards and instead use a generic Discard Zoo deck. It just feels a lot less clunkier when I tried to design it because IMO if you want to use the Quest then you have to use the new Hound and/or Deathwing which means cutting that Egg/Pterodactyl package which I think is strong enough to experiment with in Zoo.
There's probably another variant of Zoo which is more Flood oriented. Double Feeding Time + double Forbidden Rituals and other minions that put multiple bodies on the board plus Sea Giants.
I think it's better to not bother putting too many Discards and instead use a generic Discard Zoo deck. It just feels a lot less clunkier when I tried to design it because IMO if you want to use the Quest then you have to use the new Hound and/or Deathwing which means cutting that Egg/Pterodactyl package which I think is strong enough to experiment with in Zoo.
There's probably another variant of Zoo which is more Flood oriented. Double Feeding Time + double Forbidden Rituals and other minions that put multiple bodies on the board plus Sea Giants.
SonicXtreme
Member
what other busted cards from wild can go in hunter quest deck? I still think it's only going to be good in standard, but fel reaver and a jeeves, 1 or two quick shots, maybe dr 7 (prob not tho), seem like they could be pretty good. still probably trash compared to the healingless mode standard is going to degenerate into. but any other wild cards i'm sleeping on? fel reaver in particular makes me want to at least try it. i'd love for someone to drop half my deck before i got to throw down the quest minion.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Who would have thought Beast Druid would be a super slow rampy deck with this expansion?
A lot of the new 5 attack synergy cards seem to be beasts and Menagerie Warden is great for both 2 for 1 on the quest objective and 0 mana comboing. Insta-win if comboed with that new 12/12 druid legendary too.
Good reason to run classic king mukkla too, as long as you don't run into too many quest mages.
A lot of the new 5 attack synergy cards seem to be beasts and Menagerie Warden is great for both 2 for 1 on the quest objective and 0 mana comboing. Insta-win if comboed with that new 12/12 druid legendary too.
Good reason to run classic king mukkla too, as long as you don't run into too many quest mages.
So just reinstalled and pre ordered ungoro.
Got a cool welcome back quest for 3 free packs. And a store bundle for 10packs +1 leg for $5. I got Tirion which I didn't have so.... not a bad time to come back I guess.....
Should I get karazhan?
Heh, I also did the same. Word for word. I left like a year ago came back now with this expansion
I have 7k gold ready in the wings, plus 5k dust (plus whatever I get from rotations). Looking forward to the new stuff.
I think 7k will be enough for now. I will start the game at a small disadvantage compared to where I'm usually at (I usually buy 50 packs). But, I don't feel like the game is worth my money in this state, I feel like Blizzard has to prove to me that they can rebalance the game in a way that makes me have more fun more consistently again.
I agree that, long term, the only solution is to go back and redo the classic set so that there is a somewhat even level of power between all classes. This doesn't have to be a total nerf and remove either -- they could do it by tastefully rotating expansion cards into and out of classic.
As long as classic remains a baseline then certain classes will always be either busted or terrible. See priest and shaman as an example -- priest is predicted to return to the dumpster after the rotation, while shaman is basically propped up by it's expansion set and in constant danger of being in the dumpster unless they get some majorly powerful cards every rotation. That's no way to keep the game balanced.
I think 7k will be enough for now. I will start the game at a small disadvantage compared to where I'm usually at (I usually buy 50 packs). But, I don't feel like the game is worth my money in this state, I feel like Blizzard has to prove to me that they can rebalance the game in a way that makes me have more fun more consistently again.
I agree that, long term, the only solution is to go back and redo the classic set so that there is a somewhat even level of power between all classes. This doesn't have to be a total nerf and remove either -- they could do it by tastefully rotating expansion cards into and out of classic.
As long as classic remains a baseline then certain classes will always be either busted or terrible. See priest and shaman as an example -- priest is predicted to return to the dumpster after the rotation, while shaman is basically propped up by it's expansion set and in constant danger of being in the dumpster unless they get some majorly powerful cards every rotation. That's no way to keep the game balanced.
I have 7k gold ready in the wings, plus 5k dust (plus whatever I get from rotations). Looking forward to the new stuff.
I think 7k will be enough for now. I will start the game at a small disadvantage compared to where I'm usually at (I usually buy 50 packs). But, I don't feel like the game is worth my money in this state, I feel like Blizzard has to prove to me that they can rebalance the game in a way that makes me have more fun more consistently again.
I agree that, long term, the only solution is to go back and redo the classic set so that there is a somewhat even level of power between all classes. This doesn't have to be a total nerf and remove either -- they could do it by tastefully rotating expansion cards into and out of classic.
As long as classic remains a baseline then certain classes will always be either busted or terrible. See priest and shaman as an example -- priest is predicted to return to the dumpster after the rotation, while shaman is basically propped up by it's expansion set and in constant danger of being in the dumpster unless they get some majorly powerful cards every rotation. That's no way to keep the game balanced.
7k gold is 70 packs. It's more than your usual 50
- Status
- Not open for further replies.