Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel

Blizzard said:
I thought this sounded familiar and yep:
RIP your planned archetype, too beautiful for this world.
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It's the deck I've wanted to play since I started this game, but it has never been viable (though I beat Dahbomb with it! ;-D).

SonicXtreme said:
dreadsteed broke too many brawls tbh. of course patron comes close too but that's an adventure card so less likely to touch it.

btw do we have a list of tags in this thread somewhere? i like people to watch and play if wanna try diff stuff out. i play a lot of wild decks trying diff ways to build things. i'm SonicXtreme#1343 on NA server
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Who gives a fuck about a card breaking Brawls? lol

Karsticles#1474, btw.

TankUP said:
A CM confirmed in reddit that Dreadsteed will be disenchantable for full value KOTFT releases and this change goes live.
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RIP.

Cat Party said:
Y'all had plenty of time to enjoy Dreadsteed. Cool card but obviously not worth the restrictions on card design that it created.
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lol, what are all these restrictions? The card isn't even in Standard.

Smells like a Blade Flurry justification. Oh no, Blade Flurry prevents Blizzard from giving Rogues new weapons!
 
Karsticles said:
lol, what are all these restrictions? The card isn't even in Standard.

Smells like a Blade Flurry justification. Oh no, Blade Flurry prevents Blizzard from giving Rogues new weapons!
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Blade Flurry nerf has not been justified, I agree.

Dreadsteed nerf is caused by the exact card revealed today. That it is only in Wild doesn't matter, since the interaction between the new card (which we all like) and Dreadsteed quite literally breaks the game. Any card that has potential for infinite combos eventually has to be changed in some way. Auctioneer and Jade Idol, IMO, are not long for this world as printed.
 
I'm sad about Dreadsteed myself. I loved playing dumb Dreadsteed decks in wild (as long as I wasn't playing against Priest).

I have a gold one and the golden art on Dreadsteed is seriously badass. Kinda sad that I gotta disenchant it now.
 
Cat Party said:
Blade Flurry nerf has not been justified, I agree.

Dreadsteed nerf is caused by the exact card revealed today. That it is only in Wild doesn't matter, since the interaction between the new card (which we all like) and Dreadsteed quite literally breaks the game. Any card that has potential for infinite combos eventually has to be changed in some way. Auctioneer and Jade Idol, IMO, are not long for this world as printed.
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It's not hard at all to hardcode something so the interaction doesn't cause a problem. There are plenty of other cards that needed exemptions added for them. They can do it here, too.

Auctioneer and Jade Idol isn't an endless combo. Now that Warrior can have an endless deck, I think we're likely to see MORE interactions like Auctioneer and Jade Idol, not less.
 
Cat Party said:
Blade Flurry nerf has not been justified, I agree.
.
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Blade Flurry nerf is because they decided that Rogue's don't get strong AOE. Kind of like how Druids don't get great single target removal or how Priests get a lot of minions with high health and low attack.

It's a core design decision for Rogue that Blade Flurry conflicted with. It's hard to make all 9 classes feel distinct and one of the ways they do that is by not giving some classes certain tools.

Karsticles said:
It's not hard at all to hardcode something so the interaction doesn't cause a problem.
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Well, even if I agree that it's "not hard" (although how you could possibly know that I have no idea), I don't think they would nerf Dreadsteed for this one card when they could change how it works (like how they did with Auchenai) unless they were sick of having to redesign cards and adventures and brawls because they realized Dreadsteed has a broken interaction with their design. Better to solve the problem now, permanently.
 
Are Zoo Lock decks botted alot? I'm facing a warlock who is running Zoo, but he has never used his hero power. Once. Even when his hand is empty. And his moves are very stilted too. Like, the time between moves seems to be a flat amount?
 
BreezyLimbo said:
Are Zoo Lock decks botted alot? I'm facing a warlock who is running Zoo, but he has never used his hero power. Once. Even when his hand is empty. And his moves are very stilted too. Like, the time between moves seems to be a flat amount?
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"Bot like" turns can often be explained by a mobile player with a poor connection. Plus a bot programmed to play zoo would likely use the hero power.
 
I have a warlock quest sitting for 2 weeks since I know that the class is not so hot right now. Even though it was a "play 50 cards" I still didn't feel like playing it since I don't like to throw matches.

Short story, I built a discard zoolock deck and won 3 matches on casual, I guess that the deck isn't as terrible as I thought, but maybe it was thanks to being in casual, even though I defeated a quest warrior and an jade shaman
 
ZealousD said:
Every time it goes off, it will go off like casting a new spell.

1.) Because that's what the card says it does, it casts it again.
2.) If death processing didn't occur between each pulse of defile, then they wouldn't have the broken interaction with Dreadsteed that they already mentioned. Dreadsteed would simply have the "to be destroyed" tag attached and each subsequent pulse would overkill the first Dreadsteed. But since they confirmed it breaks with Dreadsteed, then that confirms that it's also broken with this particular Grim Patron setup.
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Yoggsaron says casts too, but we know each spell is not treated as separate actions as if played from hand. So we'll see.
 
sibarraz said:
I have a warlock quest sitting for 2 weeks since I know that the class is not so hot right now. Even though it was a "play 50 cards" I still didn't feel like playing it since I don't like to throw matches.
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You can (very slowly) complete that quest by playing Mage or Priest and running Kabal Courier. Tri-class cards work for quests for all three, plus you can discover a Warlock card as well. You can get 2 or 3 cards per game towards your quest!

Heck, it's possible (but very, very unlikely) to go infinite with Couriers and complete your quest even faster!
 
TankUP said:
Blade Flurry nerf is because they decided that Rogue's don't get strong AOE. Kind of like how Druids don't get great single target removal or how Priests get a lot of minions with high health and low attack.

.
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That would be a lot easier to accept if you didn't have mage and shaman with the multiple aoes, great single target removal, great early/mid/late game minions, great healing(barrier), great control tools, card draw, etc.

It's frustrating to play rogue when mage does everything better. Don't get me started on glyph either. Best discover card too.
 
greepoman said:
That would be a lot easier to accept if you didn't have mage and shaman with the multiple aoes, great single target removal, great early/mid/late game minions, great healing(barrier), great control tools, card draw, etc.

It's frustrating to play rogue when mage does everything better. Don't get me started on glyph either. Best discover card too.
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Tell me about it, calling it control paladin still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Crappy AoE and liteally no removal, heck not even ways to protect your doomsayers, just hope hitting things with your face is good enough.

Back in the day I couldn't even kill my own sylvanas.
 
greepoman said:
It's frustrating to play rogue when mage does everything better. Don't get me started on glyph either. Best discover card too.
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Play mage then? Like, at this point if you're gonna play Rogue you should know that healing and AOE is going to be hard to come by.

I agree that some classes are too good at too many things. Why does Shaman have the best single target removal and the best AOE in the game? Why do they get so much healing? Why do they have so much burst? Why do they get crazy value cards like Spirit Echoes?

The solution to that, though, is not by making the classes more similar to each other, but by making them more different. Otherwise, why even have 9 classes?
 
TankUP said:
Play mage then? Like, at this point if you're gonna play Rogue you should know that healing and AOE is going to be hard to come by.

I agree that some classes are too good at too many things. Why does Shaman have the best single target removal and the best AOE in the game? Why do they get so much healing? Why do they have so much burst? Why do they get crazy value cards like Spirit Echoes?

The solution to that, though, is not by making the classes more similar to each other, but by making them more different. Otherwise, why even have 9 classes?
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deficiencies are bad ways to differentiate classes, proficiencies should suffice. The way it's set up right now you get metas that completely shut out classes because their proficiencies got overshadowed and their deficiencies make it so they can't compensate.

The classes should be more similar and if they insist on never rotating it, classic in particular should be overhauled and rebalanced extensively.
 
TankUP said:
Play mage then? Like, at this point if you're gonna play Rogue you should know that healing and AOE is going to be hard to come by.

I agree that some classes are too good at too many things. Why does Shaman have the best single target removal and the best AOE in the game? Why do they get so much healing? Why do they have so much burst? Why do they get crazy value cards like Spirit Echoes?

The solution to that, though, is not by making the classes more similar to each other, but by making them more different. Otherwise, why even have 9 classes?
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Yeah we're on the same page...I'm not saying make rogue more like mage. Just stop making mage good at everything.
 
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Tell me about it, calling it control paladin still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Crappy AoE and liteally no removal, heck not even ways to protect your doomsayers, just hope hitting things with your face is good enough.

Back in the day I couldn't even kill my own sylvanas.
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Not this thing again lol

You can't complain when the deck recently get Spikeridke Steed, Tarim, and Primordial Drake, all is 5 star card

Want pally getting something like fireball is weird, they can remove thing just fine as it is
 
I'm going to have to craft Frost Lich Jaina just for the emotes:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/6q5tw9/frost_lich_jaina_emotes/

Those are perfect.

Familienoberhauptvogel said:
deficiencies are bad ways to differentiate classes, proficiencies should suffice. The way it's set up right now you get metas that completely shut out classes because their proficiencies got overshadowed and their deficiencies make it so they can't compensate.

The classes should be more similar and if they insist on never rotating it, classic in particular should be overhauled and rebalanced extensively.
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So the game has more variety in playstyles than ever, and your solution to imbalance is to lower the variety? lol

Between Standard and Wild, every class is playable. The game is in a great state.

TankUP said:
Blade Flurry nerf is because they decided that Rogue's don't get strong AOE. Kind of like how Druids don't get great single target removal or how Priests get a lot of minions with high health and low attack.

It's a core design decision for Rogue that Blade Flurry conflicted with. It's hard to make all 9 classes feel distinct and one of the ways they do that is by not giving some classes certain tools.



Well, even if I agree that it's "not hard" (although how you could possibly know that I have no idea), I don't think they would nerf Dreadsteed for this one card when they could change how it works (like how they did with Auchenai) unless they were sick of having to redesign cards and adventures and brawls because they realized Dreadsteed has a broken interaction with their design. Better to solve the problem now, permanently.
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Their Dreadsteed reasoning is bullshit. They hardcoded a casting limit for Grim Patron:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/6q54je/live_frozen_throne_card_reveal_w_day9/dkv0431/

They could do the exact same thing with Dreadsteed.
 
Karsticles said:
So the game has more variety in playstyles than ever, and your solution to imbalance is to lower the variety? lol

Between Standard and Wild, every class is playable. The game is in a great state.
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Wild is a non factor in these discussions it's not relevant for design at all as long as it'snot game breaking. It's also misunderstanding my argument.

The best example is mulch, not that druid needs mulch right now. Mulch is the kind of card every class should get access to in its own way. Mulch is bad compared to any commonly played removal in this game but it's better than the unplayable naturalize.
For Paladin that was Keeper of Uldaman and for Hunter it's Hunter's Mark or Deadly Shot.

These are mostly bad cards or at least bad removal, they don't make classes identical but they make it so that reaching a certain mana and dropping a threat uncontested isn't just game over for classes with limited or bad removal.
 
they just need to create a 'no banlist' wild option where you can play wild but with the old versions of dreadsteed, molten, etc etc available in original form. the nerf too many damn unique decks out of existence every time they do this shit
 
Karsticles said:
Their Dreadsteed reasoning is bullshit. They hardcoded a casting limit for Grim Patron:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/6q54je/live_frozen_throne_card_reveal_w_day9/dkv0431/

They could do the exact same thing with Dreadsteed.
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Its not a bad reasoning, they are purging the game of potential board clears in wild because of max castings, the grim patron is quite uncommon to happen

The Last One said:
What happens If we play the Frost Lich Jaina but while using Medivh as hero? They fuse?
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The hero becomes whatever is in the card. They do not mutate, they are replaced
 
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Wild is a non factor in these discussions it's not relevant for design at all as long as it'snot game breaking. It's also misunderstanding my argument.

The best example is mulch, not that druid needs mulch right now. Mulch is the kind of card every class should get access to in its own way. Mulch is bad compared to any commonly played removal in this game but it's better than the unplayable naturalize.
For Paladin that was Keeper of Uldaman and for Hunter it's Hunter's Mark or Deadly Shot.

These are mostly bad cards or at least bad removal, they don't make classes identical but they make it so that reaching a certain mana and dropping a threat uncontested isn't just game over for classes with limited or bad removal.
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Wild is a factor if you want to argue that some classes aren't viable - the point is that you can enjoy playing that class while climbing the ladder if you want to.

Standard will never be balanced. This is the best it has EVER been.

None of the cards you listed are bad. Hunter's Mark hasn't seen play because Face Hunter is a dead archetype and they nerfed the card. Deadly Shot sees play, and it saw a LOT of play when Faceless was in vogue. Keeper of Uldaman will probably be more popular at some point, but right now the Wild meta is about getting huge boards with multi-card combos in one turn, so everyone plays full-board clears to counter that.

Every class should be able to handle every kind of strategy, but I don't think they all need the same tools to handle those strategies. Druid doesn't suffer for not having a card that insta-kills.

wiibomb said:
Its not a bad reasoning, they are purging the game of potential board clears in wild because of max castings, the grim patron is quite uncommon to happen
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A fix is a fix.

TankUP said:
Which is why I think that the main reason Dreadsteed got nerfed is because it has been inhibiting card design in other ways. They could fix this interaction but that is a band-aid.
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That might be true. We will have to wait and see. It's pretty frustrating, though. This also means I can't do things like Dreadsteed + double Sacrificial Pact against aggro on the same turn, or pop Mortal Coils while also getting a Dreadsteed trade. It hurts the card in a lot of ways. I wish they would try to find another solution. Even if they just limited each Dreadsteed to 2 resurrects a turn, it would have most of its flexibility.
 
Karsticles said:
Their Dreadsteed reasoning is bullshit. They hardcoded a casting limit for Grim Patron:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/6q54je/live_frozen_throne_card_reveal_w_day9/dkv0431/

They could do the exact same thing with Dreadsteed.
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They didn't hard code a limit for Grim Patron, they hard coded a limit in general.

A good reason for changing Dreadsteed is that it would force it to go to the max limit every time the two cards are used together, where Grim Patron at least needs some setup (And this may not be the only card that this impacts, infinite resummon screws with any other card that does something infinitely).

I think if anything Grim Patron and this card will prove to be problematic still and likely result in player's turns being skipped.
 
Hunter even with all the cards available to them is still playing the same shit in Wild that they have always played. It's a badly designed class and always will be until they do something about it. Meanwhile other classes are playing multiple archetypes in Wild spanning combos, control, grinder/fatigue, aggro, midrange etc.

In Wild if you queue up into a class, you don't know what deck they have and that's interesting.. unless it's Hunter then you know they are going to start with over powered 1 drop beast into overpowered 2 drop beasts into a bunch of bull shit Deathrattles to curve out with and hit your face.

The sad part is that this new Hunter Death Knight is the first card I have seen that actively promotes control hunter... the problem is that at least in Standard it's just going to be beat by a regular Hunter deck instead. Maybe in Wild that Death Knight card get some use but even then it's difficult.
 
Karsticles said:
Wild is a factor if you want to argue that some classes aren't viable - the point is that you can enjoy playing that class while climbing the ladder if you want to.

Standard will never be balanced. This is the best it has EVER been.

None of the cards you listed are bad. Hunter's Mark hasn't seen play because Face Hunter is a dead archetype and they nerfed the card. Deadly Shot sees play, and it saw a LOT of play when Faceless was in vogue. Keeper of Uldaman will probably be more popular at some point, but right now the Wild meta is about getting huge boards with multi-card combos in one turn, so everyone plays full-board clears to counter that.

Every class should be able to handle every kind of strategy, but I don't think they all need the same tools to handle those strategies. Druid doesn't suffer for not having a card that insta-kills.
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Unless people specify otherwise discussions will generally revolve around standard. I was into wild myself after NZoth Paladin got countered hard a couple weeks into OG but that didn't give the mode any relevance. It's an afterthought for Blizzard, surrounding orgs and content creators as well as most of the playerbase.

Standard could be better, 2 classes being entirely non-existent on ladder this long is inexcusable. Hunter in particular has been practically dead since Gadgetzan, which is especially damning having been the go to budget class.

I consider everything among the listed cards but Keeper bad. They are very situational removal that need several concessions to be effective. Those aren't the same tools but they serve the same function in unique class specific ways.

Druid doesn't need mulch right now because it's doing 2 distinct game breaking things.
 
BananasWithGuns said:
I wonder if every class will get a "cast this again" spell.
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I'm thinking it will be like the Forbidden Mechanic, and there will likely be 5 spells that make use of the effect.

Could be pretty damn cool if paired with Discover in some way though.

Battlecry: Discover a targeted spell. It will be casted on a random minion. If it kills the target, cast this effect again.


Also, with the 3 Prince Cards, I really think there is going to be some other card that will allow you to tutor them into your hand. I don't see Blizard Printing them with their texts if you are expected to just draw them normally.
 
I'm not opening any more packs until this shit comes out. I've now officially opened more dupe legendaries than I have original legendaries. ><
 
hey_monkey said:
I'm not opening any more packs until this shit comes out. I've now officially opened more dupe legendaries than I have original legendaries. ><
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Speaking of which, I got a dupe warrior quest from my brawl pack this week. :( Is it remotely likely to be nerfed or should I just dust it?
 
Brawl odds were much more reasonable tonight, but I was playing every game instead of repeatedly conceding on the first turn. Maybe that makes a difference.

Ragnaros (W)
Ragnaros (W)
Nefarian (W)
Nefarian (W) (turn 1 rope + surrender)
Nefarian (L) (had exactly the same starting hand as previous game)
Ragnaros (W)

It almost seems farmable, but it's slow. At least I finished the quest without much trouble.
 
DF5wpcAUQAAypi7.jpg
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OP

edit: wait, not a battlecry
 
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