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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
I think PW would continue to run Hydra. After Turn 5 the deck wants to transition into burn so you're not dropping too many minions after that.
I think this guy makes more sense in a midrange/tempoy style of deck like Midrange Paladin where you continue to drop beefy threats into the late game. This guy, 6-drop, Bonemare, Tirion, etc. Already the deck can't decide if it wants to play Finja or Kodo right now.
In fact I'm starting to wonder if Midrange Paladin could just be too good in the Frozen Throne meta. If Blizzard doesn't print OP early game for the other classes, Paladin might still have some of the best openers (murlocs) that transition into some of the most OP late game threats (Scalebane, Bonemare, Tirion, Rag Lightlord). The meta could get really silly because one of the best ways to answer those threats would be Aldor Peacekeeper and Sunkeeper Tarim. So the best way to counter Midrange Paladin is to play.... Midrange Paladin.
Real deal
I drafted an awful arena deck but it has two Vicious Fledglings so it's been smooth sailing so far.
Liking the Warlock cards shown so far except of course for Discard-Queen Bolvar. Sanguine Reveler sounds great in a deathrattle-heavy Zoolock with Ravenous Pterrodax, and Defile can easily be a board wipe in the right situation. Arena opponent plays on-curve for turns one, two, three, and four? One health, two health, three health, four health... dead. Someone's going to legitimately try the Street Trickster combo, I know it.
Liking the Warlock cards shown so far except of course for Discard-Queen Bolvar. Sanguine Reveler sounds great in a deathrattle-heavy Zoolock with Ravenous Pterrodax, and Defile can easily be a board wipe in the right situation. Arena opponent plays on-curve for turns one, two, three, and four? One health, two health, three health, four health... dead. Someone's going to legitimately try the Street Trickster combo, I know it.
I have been out of HS for a while and didnt keep up with the regular streamers, is there a reason why Reynads has fallen so much? I remember him being close to no.1 most of the time pushing upwards of 10k, last few times ive seen him he barely makes 2k. Was there a controversy?
He not streamin often at these days.. and he currently streaming other game tho.
With my usual arena luck, I was offered mediocre class choices. I made the best of it and picked druid. No innervate, no swipe, good times.
I face rogue, rogue, paladin. With 1 loss, the enemy paladin has...stonehill defender. Volcanosaur. Spikeridged steed.
Wondering what I did to deserve these matchups, I played mind control tech and stole the 7/15 divine shield volcanosaur with spikeridged steed deathrattle. Fastest concede I've seen in ages, hahaha.
I face rogue, rogue, paladin. With 1 loss, the enemy paladin has...stonehill defender. Volcanosaur. Spikeridged steed.
Wondering what I did to deserve these matchups, I played mind control tech and stole the 7/15 divine shield volcanosaur with spikeridged steed deathrattle. Fastest concede I've seen in ages, hahaha.
That's HearthArena.
He doesn't stream much, and he's more bitter then ever before. He got angry and banned me when I asked in chat why he was playing 2 eater of secrets. It used to be funny to watch him get salty about the game and yell at chat, but now it feels like he's just depressed most of the time.
This is what the mage meta does to people.
Arena update: Mage offered in 1 out of 16 consecutive arena runs now. I'm beginning to suspect Blizzard lowers the odds of that class.
Also my very first opponent in the latest arena run was yet another Paladin, this one with 2 Stonehill Defenders. One gave him Tarim. They also had Spikeridged Steed, naturally.
Second opponent, also Paladin, also Stonehill Defender.
Also my very first opponent in the latest arena run was yet another Paladin, this one with 2 Stonehill Defenders. One gave him Tarim. They also had Spikeridged Steed, naturally.
Second opponent, also Paladin, also Stonehill Defender.
Are u just experiencing shd ?Arena update: Mage offered in 1 out of 16 consecutive arena runs now. I'm beginning to suspect Blizzard lowers the odds of that class.
Also my very first opponent in the latest arena run was yet another Paladin, this one with 2 Stonehill Defenders. One gave him Tarim. They also had Spikeridged Steed, naturally.
Second opponent, also Paladin, also Stonehill Defender.
Shit is broken in standard, try playing priest vs 2 tirions and 2 tarim.
I use it whenever I can, I'm just a little frustrated seeing it show up so often in arena (especially with paladins) when I don't get offered stonehill defender, mage OR paladin.
Thanks for the heads up!
BananasWithGuns
Member
Still waiting on official translation.
Gnomish Vampire
Battlecry: Remove the top card from your opponent's deck.
Gnomish Vampire
Battlecry: Remove the top card from your opponent's deck.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
but why? Mill is not a real supported archetype and there is literally no topdeck manipulation in Hearthstone.
This is a shit card that will make people feel super bad.
they finally did it, discard mechanic. I'm guessing they want to add some real combo deck to the game. If you read in between lines from their recent Q/A, they are interested in quest mage actually being a thing, probably why glyph isn't nerfed yet.
It's good that it's contained in only one class, it makes it less annoying, otherwise everyone would run it. Excellent control card for warlock. If you just delete a bunch of burn cards from mage/pirate warrior, you have a real chance at beating them.
I'm waiting to see this new rogue hero they're hyping up as too good. I'm excited for a ballsy direction, they nerf stuff rather quickly now anyway.
It's good that it's contained in only one class, it makes it less annoying, otherwise everyone would run it. Excellent control card for warlock. If you just delete a bunch of burn cards from mage/pirate warrior, you have a real chance at beating them.
I'm waiting to see this new rogue hero they're hyping up as too good. I'm excited for a ballsy direction, they nerf stuff rather quickly now anyway.
That's going to be annoying. It really seems like this set is just one big test of mechanics to see what sticks and carries over to next year.
Hopefully there is some way to manipulate the deck for other classes so this actually has some counterplay options beyond just throw this out and annoy the opponent when the RNG is just right.
Hopefully there is some way to manipulate the deck for other classes so this actually has some counterplay options beyond just throw this out and annoy the opponent when the RNG is just right.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I think the card is kind of ridiculous personally. It doesn't lose any stats to do what it's doing and Warlock's two drops kind of suck right now. I feel like it's a two of in every Warlock deck for the foreseeable future.
Also I just saw Cobalt Scalebane and that card is pretty damn good too. Significant buff to Dragon Priest in Standard I think.
Also I just saw Cobalt Scalebane and that card is pretty damn good too. Significant buff to Dragon Priest in Standard I think.
If you think about it, it's not that annoying really. It's only annoying to some decks that rely on very specific cards to win. You can burn a useless card too and it brings your opponet closer to the cards they need, it works both ways, usually what it burns doesn't matter much to most decks. It takes a good read and good timing (and some luck) how to play this effectively, if you can tell your opponent is fishing for something or clearly doesn't have that yet, now is the time to play it for a chance to get rid of a key card. On curve it's whatever. People stress too much about burning cards in their deck. Just assume that card was your bottom card. It's not a factor.
In wild though with Brann the card is going to be annoying, you burn 4 cards with 2 of these and Brann. That's a lot of cards.
In wild though with Brann the card is going to be annoying, you burn 4 cards with 2 of these and Brann. That's a lot of cards.
But a vanilla 2 mana 2/3 is purely unplayable.
Sure it can win you the game against some control deck once every blue moon, but if Warlocks played 2 of those, it would just mean their 2-drops would be really bad.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
the effect should be seen as doing nothing, or playing the lottery, in most matchups and situations unless the meta slows to a crawl where fatigue becomes a legit win condition.
I do wonder how this is gonna work with Discard effects. Like Malchazaar's imp says, whenever you discard a card. Since this is still a play that the Warlock does, would this count? Probably not, but discard effect up until now always left it in the middle wether it was your or your opponents card.
It's not going to work. It's not discard, it's removing instead. It works like Fel Reaver. Fel Reaver didn't work with Imp and then they changed its text to remove rather than Discard. Discard is about cards in your hand, this is not. Similarly if you mill card by overdrawing, Imp doesn't draw another card for you.
Ah my bad, thought it could be a translation thing.
Exactly, it's not a good card and the majority of the time it won't do much but people will only remember the time it burned their Antonidas or something.
The Last One
Member
Definitely an annoying card but still I don't see it being that good. It could even help the opponent.
I never understand the term 'non-interactive'. It's an card game where people play things on alternating turns. Everything is non-interactive.
How is this new warlock card any more or less interactive/annoying than a hunter playing the Wolfrider 3/1 with charge on turn 3? That's 3 damage to my face I usually can't prevent. Seems just as interactive.
How is this new warlock card any more or less interactive/annoying than a hunter playing the Wolfrider 3/1 with charge on turn 3? That's 3 damage to my face I usually can't prevent. Seems just as interactive.
Interaction does not have to be simultaneous. Quest rogue is non-interactive for example: its success or failure relies mostly on what the rogue does. The opponent is too often more of a spectator.
You can prevent getting charged in the face by taunts and you can heal yourself (I'm not saying it's efficient, just giving an example of what people mean by interactive).
There's nothing the other player can do to prevent one of their card being discarded, there's no deck manipulation in the game.
I don't think the players will complain, especially because it's only one card so far. I'm more curious as to why Blizzard changed their mind regarding this type of design.
The effect does matter even without fatigue. You gain information and knowing things you don't need to play around anymore is valuable.
How useful this card is varies greatly depending on the match up but it's not useless.
People heard somethings about discard not mattering back in the fel reavers days and Kibler's essay and just parroting it out without actually considering the difference and the context.
Fel Reaver's drawback didn't matter most of the time because you were playing a face deck. The opponent you're playing this against isn't always a face deck, it can be anything. The biggest drawback of Fel Reaver in the end was information it gave away not discarding your deck. If you didn't need to play around force roar anymore, that was huge.
There is a acolyte on board, you have a chance to mill 2 cards without much effort or investment, you saw earlier that they've already played a bunch of cycle cards too, of course you go and mill those 2 cards because it's likely going to hit direct damage or iceblock or something key to your loss... Sometimes, sure if you're missing like 5 damage to mill a card on turn 3, yeah it's wrong to do it. This is what this card is, milling without that much investment. A 2/3 is not great but it's hardly back breaking, specially a control warlock with hardly any good turn 2 plays. Sure you tap against control, against something else you don't want to tap. You're playing a tech card like doomsayer or crab, consider this a 3rd option next to those with different pro/cons. You don't want to play defile on 2 most of the time.
The mindset of milling not mattering or that the card might as well be their bottom of the deck is not absolutely correct. It does matter a lot sometimes. In control mirror it's very likely going to be good. You have to be very unlucky to hit a card draw card rather than a value card as those are like 2-3 in a control deck.
Here is another case to look at. A quest mage deck needs 5 cards to do their combo. That's 5/30 on average, you win the game, you have 2 chances too if you're running 2 copy. They need 4 key cards to complete the quest itself. 2x glyph and 2x tome, that's another 4/30. Then they need 2x iceblocks to stall long enough to win. So you basically have 6/30 chance of delaying their game plan by a lot. Over 30 percent of their deck is a positive outcome for this card. So bad!
You're playing against standard miracle rogue. The way they win is that they build a board big enough faster you can possibly draw removal for. 2x giant, 1x questing, 1x Edwin, 2x Auctioneers and 2x prep to get there. That's 8 cards that are played directly for the gameplan. They have to survive against the incoming board too. You have 2x slayers and 2x evis in the deck. You basically have about 12/30 positive outcomes that give you more time by slowing your opponent down significantly
Sure against pw probably doesn't matter what you burn unless it's like a Arcanite Reaper, Leeroy, something huge like that which is unlikely.
The other factor you're not taking into account is tilt, this is a card that can annoy your opponent and push them to make bad plays.
tl;dr. the card is better than river crocolisk unlike what some might say and it will have its own niche uses depending on the shape the meta takes. It's an interesting effect to have in the game finally. I could say it's easily 3/5 at worst.
How useful this card is varies greatly depending on the match up but it's not useless.
People heard somethings about discard not mattering back in the fel reavers days and Kibler's essay and just parroting it out without actually considering the difference and the context.
Fel Reaver's drawback didn't matter most of the time because you were playing a face deck. The opponent you're playing this against isn't always a face deck, it can be anything. The biggest drawback of Fel Reaver in the end was information it gave away not discarding your deck. If you didn't need to play around force roar anymore, that was huge.
There is a acolyte on board, you have a chance to mill 2 cards without much effort or investment, you saw earlier that they've already played a bunch of cycle cards too, of course you go and mill those 2 cards because it's likely going to hit direct damage or iceblock or something key to your loss... Sometimes, sure if you're missing like 5 damage to mill a card on turn 3, yeah it's wrong to do it. This is what this card is, milling without that much investment. A 2/3 is not great but it's hardly back breaking, specially a control warlock with hardly any good turn 2 plays. Sure you tap against control, against something else you don't want to tap. You're playing a tech card like doomsayer or crab, consider this a 3rd option next to those with different pro/cons. You don't want to play defile on 2 most of the time.
The mindset of milling not mattering or that the card might as well be their bottom of the deck is not absolutely correct. It does matter a lot sometimes. In control mirror it's very likely going to be good. You have to be very unlucky to hit a card draw card rather than a value card as those are like 2-3 in a control deck.
Here is another case to look at. A quest mage deck needs 5 cards to do their combo. That's 5/30 on average, you win the game, you have 2 chances too if you're running 2 copy. They need 4 key cards to complete the quest itself. 2x glyph and 2x tome, that's another 4/30. Then they need 2x iceblocks to stall long enough to win. So you basically have 6/30 chance of delaying their game plan by a lot. Over 30 percent of their deck is a positive outcome for this card. So bad!
You're playing against standard miracle rogue. The way they win is that they build a board big enough faster you can possibly draw removal for. 2x giant, 1x questing, 1x Edwin, 2x Auctioneers and 2x prep to get there. That's 8 cards that are played directly for the gameplan. They have to survive against the incoming board too. You have 2x slayers and 2x evis in the deck. You basically have about 12/30 positive outcomes that give you more time by slowing your opponent down significantly
Sure against pw probably doesn't matter what you burn unless it's like a Arcanite Reaper, Leeroy, something huge like that which is unlikely.
The other factor you're not taking into account is tilt, this is a card that can annoy your opponent and push them to make bad plays.
tl;dr. the card is better than river crocolisk unlike what some might say and it will have its own niche uses depending on the shape the meta takes. It's an interesting effect to have in the game finally. I could say it's easily 3/5 at worst.
In HS it kinda is. In most TCG's thinning your opponent isn't good, but the 30 card decks and important finisher cards in HS make it much more dangerous.
It's more of a zoo than a control card.
Removing an opponent card in a game where there is no way to recover it still a huge play, even in decks that are not combos. Removing an arcanite reaper, fireball, living mana or ice block is still a huge loss for your opponent.
Even comparing it to being like having the card as the 30th on your deck doesn't apply when your run 2 copies of the same card in the deck, this will be like removing the 1st copy of the deck while the second one could still be in the 30th slot
Also, a 2/3 for 2 mana isn't badly stated
Even comparing it to being like having the card as the 30th on your deck doesn't apply when your run 2 copies of the same card in the deck, this will be like removing the 1st copy of the deck while the second one could still be in the 30th slot
Also, a 2/3 for 2 mana isn't badly stated
SonicXtreme
Member
this is shortsighted theory though, like said above the benefit is seeing what your opponent ditched. lots of my good decks have 4-5 legendaries and if you scuff one or two it's big information both on what they're running if you do it early and then on what u can stop worrying about. if you drop an alex or something you can inherently destroy their win conditions. the 'oh card would have been at the bottom of the deck' factor isn't true cos not only are you burning the card at the bottom of the deck, you're ditching another and seeing what it was. ditching a hero card could eviscerate a guy's deck if those are even playtable lol. but game would still have to slow down for it to matter.
2/3 is fine for this kind of goofy tech like golakka crawler against many decks its just a 2/3. against aggro deck you want to drop a 2/3 earlier than later, but against control value actually increases late in game since they will be fishing for big turns they inherently put in the back of their deck via the mulligan which looked for cheap cards.