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[TankUP]

If they thought Jade Idol was OP, they'd nerf Jade Idol.

This a "okay guys stfu about jade idol already" card.

The bad players who think "I'd be legend if only it wasn't for Jade Idol" can put this in their deck and when their winrate doesn't immediately spike they'll pick some other card to start complaining about.

The rest of us can make a meta call on whether it's worth or not depending on what we're seeing on ladder.

The one thing is does for sure is make it risky to bring Jade Druid to tournaments, but changing up the tournament meta is a good thing for us viewers.

 

[QFNS]

Also just want to point out that even playing that card, it is entirely possible that the Jade deck still wins since you know 5/5s and 6/6s are generally when they win the game rather than the ultra late fatigue game.

Including the geist and nuking their Jade idol(s) won't help you win the mid game or even win the late game. Only the ultra late fatigue game. So your deck better be designed for that or else you should just focus on winning earlier and not having infinte Jade iodls be a thing at all.

 

[Yaboosh]

Also just want to point out that even playing that card, it is entirely possible that the Jade deck still wins since you know 5/5s and 6/6s are generally when they win the game rather than the ultra late fatigue game.

Including the geist and nuking their Jade idol(s) won't help you win the mid game or even win the late game. Only the ultra late fatigue game. So your deck better be designed for that or else you should just focus on winning earlier and not having infinte Jade iodls be a thing at all.

Except their power turn is the gadget turn fueled by Jade idol.

 

[cartographer]

Also just want to point out that even playing that card, it is entirely possible that the Jade deck still wins since you know 5/5s and 6/6s are generally when they win the game rather than the ultra late fatigue game.

Including the geist and nuking their Jade idol(s) won't help you win the mid game or even win the late game. Only the ultra late fatigue game. So your deck better be designed for that or else you should just focus on winning earlier and not having infinte Jade iodls be a thing at all.

It nukes Earthen Scales, too. Pretty easy to beat Jade midgame if they aren't getting value out of earthen scales.

 

[dimb]

It destroys one (1) card from them.

Overreactions much?

? It destroys all 1-drop spells included by all players. It does not matter if Skulking Geist is good or bad. It's just endemic of the poor problem solving that occurs in Hearthstone because Blizzard doesn't actually want to balance their own game. People are still misunderstanding how Jade Idol is a problem simply because it has subpar winrates across the board.

Also just want to point out that even playing that card, it is entirely possible that the Jade deck still wins since you know 5/5s and 6/6s are generally when they win the game rather than the ultra late fatigue game.

Including the geist and nuking their Jade idol(s) won't help you win the mid game or even win the late game. Only the ultra late fatigue game. So your deck better be designed for that or else you should just focus on winning earlier and not having infinte Jade iodls be a thing at all.

Jade druid needs 10/11+ Jades to win in many control matchups. Midrange matchups are by far its weakest, and some are basically just auto-loss. Their midgame is just generating cards off Auctioneer and keeping enough pressure up to survive.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

the decks that want to include the geist are the ones that have no trouble dealing with big boards.

Fuck my free Arena deck was so terrible I retired it after a single game and now I'm stuck with the damn quest, I'm a moron. Edit: Started a new run picked priest and build a super greedy deck Medivh + 2 Mind Control and a Free From Ember

 

[Hybris]

I don't get why people are freaking out so much over this. It's a 6 mana 4/6. It's not going to be played with high frequency. That stat line is almost as bad as eater. It doesn't outright kill jade druid. Sure the decklist may need to evolve, but they are clearly getting tools to do that (see the new 10 mana card).

This doesn't really impact any other archetypes very heavily either. Token evolve shaman doesn't need evolve dopple to win. In fact other variants of the token archetype have proven very successful, it's just that the evolve list has maybe half a % up over the jade style or the fire ele/hammer style because it can high roll games. Not only that, but a 6 mana card is extremely hard to play when your opponent has board, and the impact will be negligible even if they play it. Playing against a deck that may run the tech card? Just playing my evolves earlier for tempo. Dopple isn't a bad drop on its own either for the deck.

Doesn't heavily impact rogue, they want to cycle faster anyway. If it hits cards in hand, sure that's a swing, but you can easily play around that by playing them early when turn 6 is coming.

People talking about kaleidosaur... Completing the quest that late is dead anyway. Paladin should be completing it before turn 6 or be very close so that they can finish it with kings/spike ridge.

A card that lets control decks exist in a meta with jade druid in it is a good thing. Future design space could be a concern, but I really don't think it's as bad as you guys are making it out to be. What are some of the other most impactful 1 mana spells that have existed (and currently exist in wild)? Spells that come to mind are PO, execute (changed to 2 mana), inner fire.

 

[TankUP]

I don't get why people are freaking out so much over this.

That's just what Hearthstone players do. People freaked out about the Hunter quest (and one pro quit partly because it was printed!) and it was a total non-issue.

 

[Ketch]

It hits Mortal coil and Soul fire but whatever, I was gonna probably discard those on accident anyway.


What does it hit in miracle rogue? Hallucinate and razorpetals? Poisons from xeril, but you can play around that or just not play xeril. Cold bloods and deadly poisons aren't necessary for the deck I don't think. I think miracle is probably not affected, especially since rogue dk is so good.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

That's just what Hearthstone players do. People freaked out about the Hunter quest (and one pro quit partly because it was printed!) and it was a total non-issue.

to be fair to lifecoach he said i'd either be too good or not good at all IIRC.

 

[sibarraz]

That's just what Hearthstone players do. People freaked out about the Hunter quest (and one pro quit partly because it was printed!) and it was a total non-issue.

I always took it as lifecoach trashing the game for any reason while praising gwent

Funny enough, as soon as he left, the game improved a lot, not like bot incidents were related, but still is funny in perspective

 

[Drkirby]

skulking geist, sure it effs jade druid but it casualties a lot of wonky fun stuff in the process , case in point last kaleidosaur has no design space to ever become playable (as dumb a quest as it is all the buffs cost 1 mana)

Blizard could release 0 mana spells. Also, it is quite possible this card was designed to also counter The Last Kaleidosaur, and Blizard just didn't realize how much it would fall flat (Since the majority of cards in this Expansion were designed before Un'Goro released)

Should counters only exist against "Good" archetypes?

 

[TankUP]

to be fair to lifecoach he said i'd either be too good or not good at all IIRC.

He also said he told Blizzard not to print the card and he was super upset that they did anway. He then quit the game within a week or two of his hunter quest rant. It's very hard not to see that those as related events.

 

[Hybris]

I'm not a wild player, but I think I understand their frustration. It hits a lot more things than jade druid and much harder than it hits jade druid. Maybe they should have made this cost a bit more if they wanted to go this route.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

He also said he told Blizzard not to print the card and he was super upset that they did anway. He then quit the game within a week or two of his hunter quest rant. It's very hard not to see that those as related events.

oh absolutely just saying he was aware it could be bad

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I'm not a wild player, but I think I understand their frustration. It hits a lot more things than jade druid and much harder than it hits jade druid. Maybe they should have made this cost a bit more if they wanted to go this route.

It's a 6 mana card. No way could they make a counter more expensive. It also only hits spells, where not that many decks run many 1 mana spells.

We probably won't see this card outside of fatigue decks. It's actually good enough in fatigue decks, but fatigue decks aren't likely to be strong even against jade druid, even with this tech tbh.

 

[ZealousD]

I'm not a wild player, but I think I understand their frustration. It hits a lot more things than jade druid and much harder than it hits jade druid. Maybe they should have made this cost a bit more if they wanted to go this route.

The stuff it hits in Wild (Freeze Mage and Secret Paladin) can get fucked as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

secret paladin is pretty fine ith it when you thin their deck for them

 

[Schnauzer]

I really hate this removing 1 mana spell card. I bet Warriors are happy execute is 2 mana now?

Warrior: Shield Slam
Priest: Inner Fire (really one of priests win conditions? Completely nullifies a hole archetype)
Paladin: Secrets/buffs (This is just irritating)

Mage got out the easiest... Mage....

This card ruins a lot of decks that weren't even Tier 1 as it is. This is the most volatile card I have seen. This is not fun at all.

Guess were back to Malagos Druid... 0 mana mono fires.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Hopefully the card is not ran in many decks. The more I think about the card, the less I like it existing.

 

[Yaboosh]

secret paladin is pretty fine ith it when you thin their deck for them

They definitely don't want to miss the mysterious challenger turn though. That's massive tempo for them. The deck thinning is a secondary benefit.

 

[slightconfuse]

This card should also go into your collection and dust last collidsaur

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

They definitely don't want to miss the mysterious challenger turn though. That's massive tempo for them. The deck thinning is a secondary benefit.

what's the difference between playing MC and getting Secret Eater'd to playing MC after Geist'd You're still up in tempo because you played a 6/6 to their 4/6 and the thinning is even more extensive than MC would have been.

I don't see this doing much to Secret Paladin, it's also completely worthless if it drops after MC.

 

[Htown]

The problem with geist is that it has the potential to make your opponent's draws better in the late game, especially in a topdeck situation.

 

[Schnauzer]

what's the difference between playing MC and getting Secret Eater'd to playing MC after Geist'd You're still up in tempo because you played a 6/6 to their 4/6 and the thinning is even more extensive than MC would have been.

I don't see this doing much to Secret Paladin, it's also completely worthless if it drops after MC.

Secret Paladin will be fine. Druid being the exception, since they can pull it out consistently before MC has a chance.

This really hurts Priest....
Kills Miracle Priest - Power Word Shield, Inner Fire, Potion
Kills Silence Priest - Inner Fire is required
Kills Dragon Priest - See above.

Priest no longer has a valid deck currently... Miracle Rogue as well...

I guess this makes Mill a thing. Mill will be a serious issue in wild.

 

[Ketch]

I think miracle rogue is fine.

The best rogue spells for miracle cost 0 anyway

 

[Blizzard]

Don't forget the card leaves a 4-attack minion on the board, so Priest can only remove it with existing minions or dragonfire potion.

Blizzard seems to be pushing Quest Priest so that's presumably the way to experiment.

 

[Schnauzer]

Don't forget the card leaves a 4-attack minion on the board, so Priest can only remove it with existing minions or dragonfire potion.

Blizzard seems to be pushing Quest Priest so that's presumably the way to experiment.

Well it's not going to work with what we currently have seen, and at the same time this hurts Paladin quest...which really didn't need it.

 

[Yaboosh]

what's the difference between playing MC and getting Secret Eater'd to playing MC after Geist'd You're still up in tempo because you played a 6/6 to their 4/6 and the thinning is even more extensive than MC would have been.

I don't see this doing much to Secret Paladin, it's also completely worthless if it drops after MC.

You don't want to be secret eatered either. Not sure I understand your point.

Geist and secret eater hurt secret paladin. Neither counter secret paladin (or worth running specifically for secret paladin) but secret paladin would certainly prefer neither were played in a given game. Unless like you said geist was played after mc.

 

[gutshot]

Kibler is not a fan of Geist.

Brian Kibler‏ @bmkibler
I bet a lot of people are still going to lose a lot of games to Jade Druid after playing this card.

Brian Kibler‏ @bmkibler
It does nothing to impact the board. It just shuts down Idol recursion and inevitability. Jade isn't a fatigue deck, fundamentally.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You don't want to be secret eatered either. Not sure I understand your point.

Geist and secret eater hurt secret paladin. Neither counter secret paladin (or worth running specifically for secret paladin) but secret paladin would certainly prefer neither were played in a given game. Unless like you said geist was played after mc.

I don't want to sure but I don't particularly mind it either.

This an oversimplification but there's generally 3 states at which Geist will be able to be cast against Secret Paladin. MC already cast, MC not cast MC in hand, MC not cast MC in deck. 2 of those make a Geist a detrimental play.

This ignores having drawn secrets and not played them by turn 5/6 and redundant copies of MC.

 

[rahji]

warlock is soo fucking bad in arena. It is unbelievable. I am so mad right now.

 

[Drkirby]

This card should also go into your collection and dust last collidsaur

See, what you do is you dust the Last Kaleidosaur, and then craft this card with your 400 dust.

 

[Karsticles]

You don't even think about when to play this. You just PLAY IT. Compare to Loatheb, which has a high skill ceiling.

Blizard could release 0 mana spells. Also, it is quite possible this card was designed to also counter The Last Kaleidosaur, and Blizard just didn't realize how much it would fall flat (Since the majority of cards in this Expansion were designed before Un'Goro released)

Should counters only exist against "Good" archetypes?

Silver bullet game design is fundamentally misguided.

Look at the HS Wild boards and see how this is being received.

I'm not a wild player, but I think I understand their frustration. It hits a lot more things than jade druid and much harder than it hits jade druid. Maybe they should have made this cost a bit more if they wanted to go this route.

More mana wouldn't matter.

 

[Tacitus_]

Molten Reflection with Spellbender is kinda funny.

Spoiler

Both of you get a spellbender

 

[zoukka]

You don't even think about when to play this. You just PLAY IT.

If you can afford to.

 

[Dahbomb]

Most people here have not even commented on the actual power level of the card, they just think it's a bad card to make for the game in general and they are right in thinking so. Just like how Jade Idol is bad for the game even if the deck it makes isn't actually the best.

It's a poorly designed tech card. This is the BGH of 1 mana spells. Just like BGH punished you for having big minions, this punishes you for having decks that rely on 1 mana spells.

 

[Hybris]

More mana wouldn't matter.

Against those decks it's targeting it may or may not matter, but it could have an impact on how many people put it into their decks. Tech card playability is often influenced by how playable they are in the matchups the effect doesn't do anything. 6 mana 4/6 feels a lot less bad than an 8 mana 4/6 for example.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Ben Brode - ARTHAS", but everytime he says 'Arthas' Kripp gets salty

 

[Grief.exe]

Secret Paladin will be fine. Druid being the exception, since they can pull it out consistently before MC has a chance.

This really hurts Priest....
Kills Miracle Priest - Power Word Shield, Inner Fire, Potion
Kills Silence Priest - Inner Fire is required
Kills Dragon Priest - See above.

Priest no longer has a valid deck currently... Miracle Rogue as well...

I guess this makes Mill a thing. Mill will be a serious issue in wild.

Kibler is not a fan of Geist.

Explains Kiblers reaction.

So the answer to creating a bad card in Jade idol was to create another bad card?

 

[CoolOff]

You get an Explosive Shot, and you get an Explosive Shot, and you get an Explosive Shot!

 

[manhack]

If the meta comes down to a battle of control decks running Geist and Jade Druid then the expansion will have failed on an entirely different level. This will likely not be the case and arguments about Geist "killing x, y and z deck" seem a little overblown.

Even in the situations where Geist is able to come down on the board it isn't an auto win against the decks it counters and it makes your deck worse in other situations.

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out though.

 

[cartographer]

Kibler is not a fan of Geist.

I guarantee you he's going to run these in his Mage and priest decks that he says are too oppressed by midrange and combo decks.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Heh priest mirrors in arena are dumb. I free from amber into Malygos and shadow visions a holy nova next turn wipe his board. he mind controls my malygos, I mind control it back.

 

[Tacitus_]

I guarantee you he's going to run these in his Mage and priest decks that he says are too oppressed by midrange and combo decks.

IIRC he's just not a fun of hard counter cards in general.

 

[ZealousD]

Kibler is not a fan of Geist.

Ha, that's basically what I said.

 

[Q8D3vil]

I guarantee you he's going to run these in his Mage and priest decks that he says are too oppressed by midrange and combo decks.

Any Kazukas deck just got a huge buff with Geist and can totally win vs Jade druid now instead of auto lose.

 

[bluehat9]

I still thought all they needed to do was have the shuffled-in idols only summon and not give shuffle option again or work with the legendary whose name I forget. But what do I know?

 

[ZealousD]

If the meta comes down to a battle of control decks running Geist and Jade Druid then the expansion will have failed on an entirely different level. This will likely not be the case and arguments about Geist "killing x, y and z deck" seem a little overblown.

Even in the situations where Geist is able to come down on the board it isn't an auto win against the decks it counters and it makes your deck worse in other situations.

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out though.

"Lucky" for us, it's going to be Midrange Paladin with the strongest curve in the game starting from the murlocs through to a powerful mid-late game transition with Cobalt Scalebane, Spikeridged Steed, Bonemare, and Tirion that dominates the meta. This Jade stuff is a sideshow.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Hehehe this deck is dumb, not great just super greedy. I got Ysharj from the first Medivh proc and my opponent scooped.